Stewart Mandel is an Idiot and I Hope Uga Bites Him in the Rear End
What we have here is an interesting confluence of circumstances.
When Stewart Mandel ignorantly ripped on my alma mater, I took him to task and called him an idiot. I was not alone in assailing Mandel and, when LD offered his thoughts on the matter, Peter Bean urged his fellow bloggers to steer clear of assaults on mainstream media pundits that amounted to little more than "just noting that so-and-so is an idiot." I took the matter under advisement.
Around that same time, I shared my thoughts on Peter's high regard for Barry Bonds, provoking a small firestorm which led ultimately to an apology. The latter, in turn, produced a reader comment encouraging me to "maybe look into buying some backbone" where Peter was concerned.
At about that same point, SkiDawg1985 offered this observation:
To that, I had a Stewart Mandel-specific response, and, shortly after I posted it, I read what Brian Cook had to allow in response to Peter Bean:
Then, to cap it all off, Senator Blutarsky led me to . . . this.
So, to recap: Stewart Mandel wrongly said my alma mater isn't a national power, I offered a rebuttal, Peter Bean calmly cautioned bloggers not to go around calling national columnists idiots, a reader made a reasonable point about webloggers and professional columnists, I offered a response, another reader said I needed to do what Brian Cook just did (namely, disagree openly with Peter Bean), and Stewart Mandel reiterated his original ignorant animadversion against the University of Georgia.
I see a way to kill several birds with one stone. Let the slaughter of the avians commence thusly:
No, seriously. He's Bozo the Columnist. His audition for a lead role in "Dumb and Dumber" went badly because he was overqualified. Sports Illustrated doesn't send him to cover golf because he weeps for his banished sister every time he hears the word "caddy."
How is Stewart Mandel a moron? Let me count the ways.
Below are excerpts from his latest assault upon good taste, common sense, and the English language. Mandel writes, I refute:
That should have been your first clue, Stew.
In fairness, the overwhelming majority of the non-Georgia respondents had no problem grasping this concept.
I previously linked to Chip Towers's effective demolition of Mandel's sophomoric and nonsensical "point." (See, Stewie? I can use scare quotes, too!)
Towers adroitly noted that, among Division I-A teams, Georgia ranks sixth in bowl appearances and 11th in all-time victories. The Bulldogs are behind only Alabama and Tennessee in S.E.C. titles won, while Mark Richt is one of only nine coaches in Division I college football history to have won 60 or more games in his first six seasons on the sideline.
Towers also noted the national recognition garnered by the Red and Black, as evidenced by merchandise sales and program profits, as well as Coach Richt's other achievements, some of which have him breathing rarefied air alongside Bear Bryant, Vince Dooley, and Steve Spurrier.
In response to this "thorough rebuttal" filled with "well-researched info," Mandel scoffed that he had warned us from the outset that he was more interested in "public perception than [in] reality," then mocked his Peach State readers for not "grasping this concept."
We grasp the concept, Stew-pid. We just recognize that it's complete and utter crap.
1) The inclusion of Penn State and Alabama among the "kings." True, neither of these programs have [sic.] been particularly powerful this decade (for 'Bama, longer than that). However, they built up no shortage of clout in the decades before that, and I hardly think that's evaporated nationally. Just look at the massive coverage Nick Saban's offseason in Tuscaloosa has garnered, as was the case with JoePa's "return to glory" two years ago.
As before, I take nothing away from the Crimson Tide or the Nittany Lions, both of which unquestionably are prestigious programs on the national scale, in spite of their respective woes in recent seasons.
I will even leave aside the conflict of interest question raised by LD regarding the speciousness of any argument in which a national columnist who helps shape media coverage attempts to use media coverage as evidence of prominence. This amounts to little more than claiming that a program is prestigious because he says it is . . . which, come to think of it, is essentially what you're saying when you rely on the imagined opinions of 100 fictitious Montanans as the basis for your proclamations.
Let's take the Stewmeister at his word and apply his standard with something resembling logical consistency. Alabama and Penn State went through downcycles but were able to survive them because "they built up no shortage of clout in the decades before that," which sustained them until a magical "'return to glory'" season early in the 21st century.
Uh, Stew, what do you think Georgia has done?
Quick question . . . how many teams won or shared Southeastern Conference championships between 1971 and 1982?
Two . . . Alabama and Georgia.
How many S.E.C. teams won national titles in that span?
Two . . . Alabama and Georgia.
Obviously, Coach Bryant's 'Bama teams enjoyed more national stature than Coach Dooley's 'Dawgs, and deservedly so. The Bear arguably was the greatest coach in the history of the sport and his sustained success in Tuscaloosa was remarkable.
Let's give credit where credit is due, though. From 1959 to 1982, the number of S.E.C. titles won or shared was as follows: Alabama, 12; Georgia, seven; Ole Miss, three; Tennessee, two; L.S.U., one. The Bulldogs weren't playing at the Crimson Tide's level, but, then again, neither was anyone else . . . and, in the Southeastern Conference, the Red and Black were the only team even within striking distance of Alabama during that 24-year span.
Once again, the Bear is untouchable as an icon and unparalleled in his success. In his quarter-century in Tuscaloosa, Coach Bryant won 232 games. During his own 25-year career between the hedges, Coach Dooley won 201 games. Vince wasn't on a par with Bear, but who was?
Surely a school with a storied heritage which fielded a 200-game winner as head coach as recently as 1988---six seasons after the Bear's career came to a close---deserves better than second-tier status, don't you think? Look at it this way: Paul W. Bryant won 31 more games in his 25-year career at Alabama than Vincent J. Dooley won in his 25-year career at Georgia. That means Vince was a shade over one win a year worse than the greatest coach in the history of the sport.
That ain't doing too badly. That ain't a baron; that's a king. Trust me, Mandel . . . it takes one to know one.
Georgia is perceived as being merely a regional power? Then the perception is out of whack and Mandel needs to quit rolling the ball bearings around in his hand while muttering about strawberries and yellow dye markers long enough to allow a little reality to seep into the clean, well-lit prison of his lone crackpot idea.
In the history of college football, nine teams have won the four traditional major postseason games, the Cotton, Orange, Rose, and Sugar Bowls. Those nine teams are as follows:
- Alabama
- Georgia
- Georgia Tech
- Miami (Florida)
- Notre Dame
- Ohio State
- Oklahoma
- Penn State
- Texas
If you add in the next-oldest bowl game after that, the Gator Bowl, it's down to four: Alabama, Georgia, Georgia Tech, and Oklahoma.
Tack on the Citrus (now Capital One) Bowl and you're left with three: Alabama, Georgia, and Georgia Tech.
Throw in the Liberty Bowl and you're stuck with the same trio. Toss in the Peach (now Chick-fil-A) Bowl and the cheese stands alone; while 'Bama has never been to a Peach Bowl and the Yellow Jackets are 0-3 in their hometown bowl game, the Bulldogs won the postseason tilt in the Georgia Dome as recently as last season.
Georgia is the only team in college football history to have won the nine oldest surviving bowl games. If it's a bowl game and the Bulldogs haven't hoisted the victory trophy there, then either it no longer exists or it didn't come into being until after 1970.
But, hey, winning every game with any history to it at all doesn't make you an elite team, right, Stewie? I guess it doesn't count for much that no other team has ever done it, huh?
In closing out his nonsensical defense of this cockamamie countdown, Mandel concluded:
The one outlier that sneaked in at No. 12? Yep ... Georgia.
It's official. By employing Stewart Mandel, Sports Illustrated is depriving some deserving village of its rightful idiot.
In terms of total victories won, Georgia is one of the 11 winningest programs in Division I-A college football history. In terms of winning percentage, Georgia is one of the 13 winningest programs of all time, is one of the 12 winningest programs of the last 40 years, and is the winningest S.E.C. program of the last 10 years and of the last five years. However, Georgia is not a national power.
Instead, the 'Dawgs are "[t]he one outlier." Outlier? A rational person would say winning consistently---over the last 115 years, over the last 40 years, over the last 10 years, over the last five years, and in the nine oldest existing bowl games---would be evidence of being a national power.
That, though, would be only "well-researched info" . . . it would be just "thorough rebuttal" . . . it would be mere "reality," and this is about "perception" . . . namely, the perceptions of Stewart Mandel and the 100 make-believe Montanans he had to invent in order to have any friends who didn't routinely want to pummel him with aluminum baseball bats whenever he insisted upon saying the stupidest thing he could think of and then refusing to budge in the face of, oh, I don't know, facts or something.
If, as he claims, "the overwhelming majority of the non-Georgia respondents had no problem grasping this concept," that speaks exceedingly well of Georgians.
Stewart, you're an idiot. Sit down, shut up, and let the grown-ups do the talking. You don't know the first thing about college football and you don't know jack about Georgia . . . the university or the state. Before you bother to write another asinine, insipid, ignorant column, you might want to drop by Dawg Sports (bring your dictionary, 'cause I know I write above your reading level, dipwad) and actually learn something for a change.
Check your perception at the door, you yammering goober. Around here, we'll be dealing in reality . . . like the reality that you're a nimrod.
Go 'Dawgs!
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Kyle, you forgot to mention his book!
Guys like Mandel (who admits to orchestrating his mail bag commenters) and Dodd (who shamelessly edited a piece he did on Wisconsin and the BCS to remove a glaring factual error) control the terms of the debate where they publish. So how else can they be taken to task when they produce rubbish like Mandel's "Montana test"?
by Senator Blutarsky on Aug 16, 2007 7:09 AM EDT 0 recs
About the book thing:
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 5:47 PM EDT
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Mandell
by dawgy on Aug 16, 2007 7:42 AM EDT 0 recs
At least Howie had one moment of glory . . .
Howie may be a has-been, but, to paraphrase Robin Williams in "The Best of Times," Stewie is a never-was. He aspires to be a has-been.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 1:18 PM EDT
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Outstanding response!
by NCT on Aug 16, 2007 8:44 AM EDT 0 recs
The source I consulted just listed Georgia . . .
Of course, that was one of the seasons for which Kentucky subsequently was sanctioned, so it's possible the Wildcats were stripped of their share of the '76 title the way Florida's 1984 crown was vacated after the fact.
Does anybody know the answer to this one? If I'm wrong, I want to correct it.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 1:21 PM EDT
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That's not fair.
Benji's writing actually exhibited flashes of insightfulness...not to mention after reading it a few times it kind of made sense.
Stewie's...well...not so much.
by Andrew on Aug 16, 2007 8:46 AM EDT 0 recs
Damn.
"Everyone here is dumber for having read Stewart Mandel's column. Stewart loses two points, and may God have mercy on his soul."
by MaconDawg on Aug 16, 2007 9:03 AM EDT 0 recs
Good on ya, Kyle
Mainstream sportswriting these days seems to be all about deciding on a conclusion or a meme first, then massaging the facts to fit it. The prevailing philosophy seems to be "Don't confuse me with facts when I've already made up my mind" -- and Mandel's latest excuse for a column proves it.
by Doug on Aug 16, 2007 10:01 AM EDT 0 recs
once again we see the wisdom of the following
Hamp Tanner, Hunker Down Dawg Blawg (November 18, 2005)
by Blogger who came in from the cold on Aug 16, 2007 10:12 AM EDT 0 recs
thoughts on Mandel's pecking order
What I find interesting is that, when faced with facts that show Georgia's history places it on par with his perceived "kings", he didn't pause to wonder why national perception (as he sees it) overlooks UGA.
Assuming arguendo that Mandel's perception of national perception (and yes, I'm doing that on purpose) is correct, just for the hell of it I'll offer some possible explanations.
During football's first 60-70 years, the national attention given to Southern collegiate football was undeservedly low. During that time span, when Georgia's football program ranged from very strong to occasionally stellar (sure, with some mediocre stretches thrown in), we were overshadowed by Tech and, to some extent, Tennessee. During the next 30 or so years, the South began to receive its due, but OMG Bama! (not to mention spurts of glory from the likes of Ole Miss and Auburn, alongside which the Herschel years might appear comparable but just a little bit better from a Midwesterner's or Montanans point of view). This was followed by 15 or so years (I'm being very rough with my time-frames here) of Goff, Florida, FSU, and Miami. By this time, I think it's safe to say that no one was paying any less attention to the South as they were to the Midwest, Plains, and West Coast. To said Midwesterner or Montanan, the last ten years might make Georgia look like a relative newcomer.
[To this I will add my personal observation that, among Mandel's "kings", FSU is clearly a newcomer, as my first specific recollection of the Seminoles as anything but a mere blip on the radar was when I was getting ready to board a Redcoat Band bus en route to Orlando in 1984 for an exciting 17-17 tie. Who knew?]
All this may make me appear to be a Mandel apologist, and I'm not. I think when presented with facts, Mandel should have examined why national perception (remember, arguendo) is the way it is -- not because he owes Georgia or its fans anything (UGA may not be the only school with a comparable record that gets overlooked by the Mythical Montanans), but because honest coverage of the pecking order in the "national collegiate football landscape" requires an answer to the question.
by NCT on Aug 16, 2007 10:42 AM EDT 0 recs
This morning, I talked to College Buddy . . .
Sunday Morning Quarterback does an excellent job of addressing this, showing side-by-side comparisons of particular teams' recent achievements without providing the names of the teams and asking which is the more impressive. In the case of, e.g., Cincinnati and South Florida, the divergence of the perception from the reality can be eye-opening.
Clearly, some of this is, as LD points out, media-driven. Another valid point made by College Buddy is that much of this perception is driven by a younger demographic whose frame of reference is markedly different.
This year's entering freshman class at the University of Georgia not only has no memory of Vince Dooley as the head coach of the Bulldogs, they weren't born until the year Ray Goff succeeded him at the helm. Those who didn't start following football until they were 12 years old have no memory of anyone other than Mark Richt ever being the head coach of the Bulldogs.
Obviously, this can have an enormous impact on the ways in which particular teams are viewed. Georgia has roughly a .500 record against Florida over the course of my lifetime, which gives me a very different perspective from that of someone who does not remember Florida before Steve Spurrier.
I don't necessarily fault Stewart Mandel for reporting what he perceives to be the perception, although it is hard to imagine a more ephemeral method of measurement than that. (If, as he essentially admits, he has no particular concrete basis for his views---or, at least, is indifferent to the question whether he has such a basis---he's more or less admitting that this is just his subjective opinion. Since he doesn't have any particular credentials that the average informed fan doesn't have, why should we care about his opinions just because he writes a column for Sports Illustrated?)
I fault him for shrugging off an avalanche of facts which prove the perception wrong and offering no retort more substantial than, "And yet, the perception doesn't match the facts." For a guy who's supposed to offer news and/or insight, he seems determined not to put forth enough effort to provide either, when he could (and should) use this as a casting-off point for asking, "Why aren't particular programs perceived as being as good/bad as they really are?"
That might make for an interesting column and a worthwhile discussion, but it would require actual effort more strenuous than asking himself, "What unsubstantiated opinions do I have that I could share to stir the pot and generate more page views? Say, those S.E.C. types seem particularly impassioned and we've messed with Alabama enough already after the Nick Saban hire. . . . Hey! Why don't we see if we can get Bulldog Nation in an uproar?"
It's a cheap and lazy tactic, and I regret that folks like me have demonstrated to him that it works, but Brian Cook and LD are right: Stewart Mandel has a platform from which he is able to exert some degree of influence, so counteracting his effect is crucial.
It's just a shame that, at a time when beat reporters and bloggers are starting to recognize the need for a symbiotic relationship between the blogosphere and the mainstream media (as evidenced by the discussion with the guest on this past Tuesday's edition of "EDSBS Radio"), pundits like Stewart Mandel are stirring the pot in a pathetic effort to prolong their own fading relevance.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 1:49 PM EDT
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Put another way . . .
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 7:12 PM EDT
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Opstar!
by NCT on
Aug 16, 2007 7:39 PM EDT
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Yeah, I remember . . .
Also, I remember the time someone dropped in a bogus schedule for "Mike Hunt" and Bruce Shutt or somebody called out the name, like, 20 times.
Wow, that was 100 years ago, wasn't it?
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 8:24 PM EDT
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Get back
"The average Stern fan listens daily for 1 hour. The average Stern hater listens for 2 hours daily. Both cite the top reason for why they listen as: 'to see what he will say next.'"
It's pretty evident that Stewart is an idiot because when faced with facts, he wants to act childishly and say, "No, I want it my way!" The best way to get rid of Mandel is to:
- not read his articles- SI and Yahoo track "hits" to articles and the less reading he gets, the more likely they will add another flunky instead of him to their columnist.
- cancel you SI subscriptions and include a letter to the magazine citing poor journalism with little real coverage.
by fotodog on Aug 16, 2007 11:17 AM EDT 0 recs
Absofuckinglutely.
by randomterrace on Aug 16, 2007 12:08 PM EDT 0 recs
Let me make it perfectly clear:
Thanks, though.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 16, 2007 1:26 PM EDT
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mmm
His unwillingness to take the next step is unfortunate. Even if he does take the next step, he probably won't take the important one after, but I'm a reasonable man and I'd take the moderate victory here.
by peacedog on Aug 16, 2007 12:44 PM EDT 0 recs
I've got nothing
I can't determine if the SEC is not recognizing the 76 split title or not. CFDW lists it, FWIW, and they do make a note of Florida's vacation of the 84 title.
The SEC sucks buffalo nut for not having an excellent place where I can reference this. That I have yet found, anyway.
by peacedog on Aug 16, 2007 2:43 PM EDT 0 recs
'76 title
by Doug on Aug 16, 2007 2:53 PM EDT 0 recs
'76 title
Cf. secsports.com's conference standings for the 1980s, where UF's 1984 vacated championship is noted.
by NCT on Aug 16, 2007 4:00 PM EDT 0 recs
NCT. . .
Anyhoo, Kentucky got their 5-1 via an MSU forfeit. And we beat them according to the warehouse. So there's some fun history.
by peacedog on Aug 16, 2007 4:13 PM EDT 0 recs
SEC website
Anyway, FWIW, main page - football link - waaay down the middle of the page is a list of links under the heading "Statistics & Records" -- Record Book -- All-Time Standings.
Also, the Wildcats' official website claims a 1976 football championship. I don't think the conference would let them get away with that if it weren't official.
by NCT on
Aug 16, 2007 4:32 PM EDT
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re: SEC website
by peacedog on
Aug 16, 2007 4:51 PM EDT
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Curiouser and curiouser
The Worldwide Leader's comprehensive volume also shows that the Wildcats went 8-4 on the field in 1976, losing 14-7 to Mississippi State. However, as NCT noted, M.S.U. had to forfeit that game (as well as its other eight wins that year).
Kentucky's only unbeaten conference campaign came in 1977, when the 'Cats went 10-1 overall and 6-0 in league play but did not attend a bowl game because the Blue and White were on probation. Alabama, which went 7-0 in conference games, is listed as that year's S.E.C. champion.
The 2004 Georgia football media guide lists Kentucky as having won one S.E.C. title, in 1950.
Still, assuming NCT is right that Kentucky would be forced to put a Florida-esque "first in the S.E.C." on its website in lieu of "S.E.C. champions," I'm proceeding from the understanding that, thanks to the Mississippi State forfeit, Kentucky technically shared the conference crown with the 'Dawgs, by virtue of the fact that the 4-2 record the 'Cats earned by cheating was improved to 5-1 by virtue of M.S.U.'s cheating.
For the record, in 1976, Ray Goff and the Red and Black beat the Wildcats by a 31-7 margin in Lexington. I'm just saying.
With the correction, the piece should read:
Three . . . Alabama, Georgia, and Kentucky.
How many S.E.C. teams won national titles in that span?
Two . . . Alabama and Georgia.
Obviously, Coach Bryant's 'Bama teams enjoyed more national stature than Coach Dooley's 'Dawgs, and deservedly so. The Bear arguably was the greatest coach in the history of the sport and his sustained success in Tuscaloosa was remarkable.
Let's give credit where credit is due, though. From 1959 to 1982, the number of S.E.C. titles won or shared was as follows: Alabama, 12; Georgia, seven; Ole Miss, three; Tennessee, two; Kentucky, one; L.S.U., one. The Bulldogs weren't playing at the Crimson Tide's level, but, then again, neither was anyone else . . . and, in the Southeastern Conference, the Red and Black were the only team even within striking distance of Alabama during that 24-year span.
Even crediting Kentucky with a piece of the league title, the point remains the same: Georgia was second only to Alabama during that span and no one else was even close to the Bulldogs. In fact, with the Wildcats' title added in, the breakdown is this:
- Alabama - 12 S.E.C. titles
- Georgia - 7 S.E.C. titles
- Rest of conference - 7 S.E.C. titles combined
by T Kyle King on Aug 16, 2007 6:22 PM EDT 0 recs
Interesting years you use there...
Something to point out here:
"After Alabama, though, there's no team in the league that gets to look down on the 'Dawgs."
I'd put UT and UGA about even- UT has won 16 conference titles (UGA 14), and has a 19-15-2 record against the Dawgs. You really don't make much of a case for claiming superiority over the Vols, except for the fact that UGA has a Rose Bowl win and UT doesn't (0-2). But the 'Vols are certainly elite, as well.
But I won't argue against your premise- that UGA's football tradition/accomplishments put it in the "elite," regardless of what public perception may be (or some people in Montana, if that's what one uses as "public perception"). The Dawgs have enjoyed consistent success over time, and have many accomplishments in the bowls as well.
Auburn only has 6 SEC titles and one MNC, so I think Stewart put us where we need to be, even if he had used a more legit formula in determining his "rankings." 2-3 more SEC's and another NC will put up at the top (we already have winning records against every SEC except LSU and Bama).
Another note on the bowls- Auburn has won all of the big 4 bowls where they've received an invite, although I'd like to think that Auburn could have won the Rose Bowl in either 1913 or 1914 seasons had there had been one, based on Auburn's performance. Combined scoring: AU 417 Competition 13- the only non-win? To UGA in 1914- a 0-0 tie (Auburn did not give up ONE POINT that year). We've also won all of the other bowls you list (1 Sun, 4 Gator, 2 Citrus/Capital One, 1 Liberty, 1 Peach).
by ContrarianAUFan on
Aug 17, 2007 1:07 PM EDT
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As I tried to make clear . . .
Those years were useful for illustrative purposes, but I wasn't trying to omit Auburn or any other particular school. Obviously, the 1983 Georgia-Auburn game (a 13-7 victory for the Plainsmen between the hedges) signaled a changing of the guard in the Southeastern Conference, as the team that had won three straight S.E.C. titles gave way to the team that would dominate the rest of the decade before the torch passed to the Gators in 1990.
There is no denying that the 'Dawgs wandered in the wilderness for most of the 20 years after 1982, although there were some good teams in there (10-1-1 in 1983, 10-2 in 1992, 10-2 in 1997). However, since Stewart Mandel has stated his premise that a team with sufficient history can go through a significant downcycle and come out of it all right, I believe the standard he applies (fairly) to Alabama and Penn State ought to apply to Georgia, as well.
The matter of the bowl wins is merely one of a series of factors and I do not hold it against the teams that have not won all of the historic "big four." (Michigan, for instance, is the winningest program in college football history, but, because the Big Ten did not allow its member institutions to attend bowl games other than the Tournament of Roses until the early '70s, it has had fewer opportunities to appear in some of the major bowls.)
My point was simply that, in the first 100 years of the history of college football (1869-1968), numerous bowls were established, many of which survive to this day, yet only one team has won every one of them. That has to count for something in any fair assessment of a squad's national stature.
Finally, I would agree that Georgia's and Tennessee's respective historical achievements work out about evenly. I do not object to the Volunteers' inclusion among the elite, as that is where I also would place them, but I believe Mandel's reason for drawing a distinction between the two---that mythical Montanans might not recognize a red helmet with an oval "G," but they'd recognize the checkerboard end zones in Knoxville---is just plain silly. Is it really a point against my alma mater that the Redcoat Band has taken the time to learn more than one song?
At the end of the day, I take this as a given: the four most accomplished programs in college football history are, in alphabetical order, Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Southern California. After that, I believe many schools may put forth compelling arguments for No. 5. Nebraska, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and others all have legitimate cases for their inclusion in the top five and certainly for inclusion in the top 10 or 12 programs historically.
My point was not to degrade any other team's claim, but to note that, once you get past the Crimson Tide, the Fighting Irish, the Trojans, and the Wolverines, the case for Georgia is as good as the case for any other team and any list of elite programs, either presently or historically, which does not include the Bulldogs is, quite frankly, a bad list.
This, though, is exactly the sort of discussion in which Stewart Mandel ought to be engaging, asking, "What teams are regarded highly, and why, and how does the perception match or diverge from the reality, and why?" That, though, would require him to do research, listen to contrary opinions, raise questions, evaluate arguments, and correct his own errors . . . in short, it would require him to take part in the sort of conversation we are having right here. We amateur fans seem perfectly capable of that; I wonder why a professional national college football writer employed by a major and influential media outlet cannot?
All right, lunch break's over . . . back to work.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 1:56 PM EDT
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The Auburn thing was a light-hearted jab.
Mandel also mentions Peyton Manning contributing to him having UT as a "King," but Manning didn't win a NC- a well-paid Tee Martin did that (google "Wayne D Rowe" for more info). It just goes back to what the rankings are- a popularity contest.
by ContrarianAUFan on
Aug 17, 2007 2:23 PM EDT
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Manning
by NCT on
Aug 17, 2007 3:15 PM EDT
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To clarify, Kyle
And though I know what you're doing with this post, I feel compelled to note - even if just for emphasis - that I have no problem with bloggers pointing out that someone like Stewart Mandel is an idiot. Rather, I hope that, when they do, they do so like you just did. Really damn well.
It's the posts which don't actually refute anything, but just say that MSM is Teh Suxorz that have outlived their usefulness.
(Great post.)
by HornsFan on Aug 17, 2007 2:04 AM EDT 0 recs
Yeah, I know, man
I have to say, though, that there is a strong visceral satisfaction to teeing off on a guy like Mandel, who's made a career out of being an oaf. I think we're at the point where the division of labor is starting to be fleshed out a bit better and we need to collaborate and cooperate with the guys in the mainstream media who truly are "professional," and not just in the sense that they get a paycheck for writing about sports.
David Ching is one good example. Tim Griffin is another. If these guys' jobs were eliminated, bloggers couldn't take their places. They have access we don't have, skills we don't possess, and the ability to use their access and skills to gather information we couldn't collect.
Bulldog fans are well-represented in the blogosphere, but none of us could replace David Ching, who provides detail and depth in a way only a conscientious beat reporter can. We in the blogosphere need guys like that doing what they do and our relationship with them should be respectful rather than antagonistic.
It's the punditocracy that has outlived its usefulness. The guys who have no special expertise the rest of us didn't get just by watching a bunch of football when we were growing up, whose opinions aren't based on anything like the level of research that a Brian Cook or a Matt Hinton puts into his weblog on a daily basis, who don't even deserve the respect we would give to an impassioned fan of a rival team for his dedication, are the ones for whom I have no use. It's the guys who have nothing original, useful, or informative to say, who persist in the business by being outrageous (Stewart Mandel) or loud (Colin Cowherd) whose day is at an end. The earlier commenter who mentioned Howard Stern's success was right on point.
We're at the point where all of our media criticism needs to be as refined as LD's. Scott Van Pelt got the ball rolling with his interview of Will Leitch. Where we need to go from here is to make it clear that we're not engaging in knee-jerk ESPN-bashing, both because that's as cheap and lazy as Mandel's mythical Montanans and because the Worldwide Leader does provide many benefits, up to and including this year's season opener between Georgia and Oklahoma State.
We need to make it clearer that we have no problem with Jeremy Schaap's genuine investigative journalism, Bob Ley's in-depth examination of issues on "Outside the Lines," or Ron Jaworski's detailed breakdowns on "NFL Matchup." This involves actual sports reporting and analysis, and it was what once made ESPN great.
What we're sick of is "sportstainment" like "Who's Now" and "Around the Horn," talk radio show hosts who substitute sarcasm and volume for actual content, and columnists who seem determined to defend baseless theses because it's easier to get page views by enraging a fan base needlessly and wrongly than by engaging in a thoughtful discussion . . . or so Stewie thinks. Given what's been happening with our site traffic here at Dawg Sports lately, I strongly dispute the proposition that you can't comment intelligently on college football and still get readers.
We're not here to replace the mainstream news media, nor could we if we tried. Putting bozos like Stewart Mandel out of business, though, would (as Brian says) be to everyone's benefit. If, instead of insulting my intelligence and the institution which informed that intelligence with education, Stewart Mandel were asking me if I wanted fries with that, college football coverage would be improved, even though I'm sure that bozo would mess up my drive-through order.
Still, that's a small price to pay for quality college football coverage.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 8:49 AM EDT
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National Power? How about INTERNATIONAL
I just happen to be in South Korea this week for temporary duty (Army). I was checking up on the status of UGA and preparations for the season when I checked out your blog. I nearly fell out of my seat laughing. Why, Stewart Madel was right in that UGA is not a National power but indeed an INTERNATIONAL power. He needs to take a trip over here and check out the GEORGIA license plates in the windows of Taxi's, Buses, etc. to realize that maybe (though I don't believe it) 100 Montanans can't recognize a UGA helmet but South Koreans sure as heck can. I'm sure that it is because of a recent Super Bowl MVP and UGA Alum, Hines Ward. Who, by the way has numerous posters in store front windows over here also.
by RobDawg01 on Aug 17, 2007 3:04 AM EDT 0 recs
That's good to know, Rob
After all, it isn't as though anybody was unfurling some other school's flag in Baghdad:

Thanks for bringing up a really good point, Rob. Be safe while you're overseas. We want all our soldiers and sailors to come home safely.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 8:19 AM EDT
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Rob
Stay safe & Thanks.
by fotodog on
Aug 17, 2007 9:05 AM EDT
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Great idea, fotodog!
Thanks for suggesting that, fotodog.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 9:39 AM EDT
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South Korea
by RobDawg01 on
Aug 17, 2007 9:11 PM EDT
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Cool!
I'll look forward to receiving actual photographic evidence with which to rebut Stewart Mandel, in case he's a visual learner.
by T Kyle King on
Aug 17, 2007 9:18 PM EDT
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Hines Ward
by NCT on Aug 17, 2007 8:20 AM EDT 0 recs










