Where Does Mark Richt Rank Among B.C.S. Conference Coaches?
Peter Bean has a quarrel with Tom Dienhart's ranking of all 66 B.C.S. conference head football coaches . . . and he's not the only one.
I know I shouldn't take the bait, since this is yet another instance of a mainstream pundit of fading relevance desperately trying to prolong his diminishing utility by uttering sheer nonsense strictly for its shock value, but some instances of idiocy are so profound that they render me constitutionally incapable of leaving them unrebutted.
Dienhart lists Southern California's Pete Carroll at No. 1 and Ohio State's Jim Tressel at No. 2. It's hard to argue with either of those picks, but there the list begins to go awry. West Virginia's Rich Rodriguez is ranked third, followed by Wake Forest's Jim Grobe in fourth place.
Now, far be it from a Georgia fan to question Coach Rodriguez's sideline acumen, but, while his and Coach Grobe's achievements are impressive, the notion that their accomplishments warrant their placement ahead of Oklahoma's Bob Stoops, Virginia Tech's Frank Beamer, and Alabama's Nick Saban---Dienhart's fifth-, sixth-, and seventh-best coaches, respectively---is something of a stretch.

The next few fellows in the standings aren't terribly controversial (except for Dennis Erickson at No. 9), but, once Dienhart gets beyond the top 20, his judgment becomes odd to the point of being inexplicable and indefensible. He has Nebraska's Bill Callahan ranked 21st, Cal's Jeff Tedford ranked 22nd . . . and Mark Richt ranked 23rd.
Let's not mince words. That's just nuts.
Coach Callahan is an N.F.L. retread who took two seasons to figure out what everyone else who had ever seen a Cornhusker football game already knew. Coach Tedford is significantly better at his job than Coach Callahan, but he is closer to Ray Goff than to Mark Richt.
There simply aren't 22 head football coaches in America better than Mark Richt. Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are ranked seventh and 12th, respectively, yet Coach Richt is as accomplished as each of them. Coach Richt has a record of .500 or better in head-to-head meetings with five of the 22 coaches ranked ahead of him, including two of the top 10.
From there, the list only gets goofier. Oregon State's Mike Riley (No. 25) is ranked ahead of Tennessee's Phillip Fulmer (No. 31). Georgia Tech's Chan Gailey (No. 30) is ranked ahead of Rutgers's Greg Schiano (No. 33). Kentucky's Rich Brooks (No. 40) is ranked ahead of Notre Dame's Charlie Weis (No. 42). I take a back seat to no one in my belief that the Fighting Irish are overrated, but I guarantee you that any Wildcat fan alive would trade Coach Brooks for Coach Weis.

The preceding mention of the State University of New Jersey obligates me to include the foregoing photograph of Rutgers alumna Kristin Davis.
Stanford's Jim Harbaugh, Miami's Randy Shannon, Boston College's Jeff Jagodzinski, and Iowa State's Gene Chizik are ranked 61st, 62nd, 64th, and 66th, respectively. What basis could Dienhart possibly have for evaluating these new hires and proclaiming them failures?
If he wants to give them incompletes and declare them ineligible to be ranked (as College Football Resource reasonably does when compiling conference coaching rankings), fine, but downgrading them based upon a lack of information is absurd. Given what we know about Coach Chizik and Coach Shannon as coordinators, do we really have any reason to believe they aren't superior to Virginia's Al Groh (No. 34), Pittsburgh's Dave Wannstedt (No. 45), U.C.L.A.'s Karl Dorrell (No. 48), or Illinois's Ron Zook (No. 49)?
Tom Dienhart is writing solely for the purpose of getting a rise out of people and, in this cheap and juvenile objective, he has succeeded because I seldom suffer fools gladly . . . and I suffer fools with press passes never. Dienhart is a blithering dufus with nothing to write that is useful, informative, interesting, or true.
His time and ours would be better spent if he compiled for his private edification a list of 66 hair and makeup tips from Mike Greenberg, who shares with Dienhart a career in sports journalism despite a complete lack of knowledge about sports.
Go 'Dawgs!
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The whole exercise was absolutely ridiculous....
If you look at Dienhart's breakdown of the SEC coaching rankings, he has Mark Richt ranked 6th.
That's right, 6th.
Houston Nutt is ranked ahead of Mark Richt. I'll just let that one sink in there for a second and wait for the laughter to die down.
by CAJason80 on May 8, 2007 9:37 PM EDT 0 recs
Answer the question
For whom would you want your son to play?
by Blogger who came in from the cold on May 8, 2007 10:29 PM EDT 0 recs
Mark Richt
Coach Richt has restored Georgia to the elite level of college football and he has done it the right way, imposing discipline, instituting character education classes, and speaking openly of his Christian religious faith.
As someone who had to turn his head, ignore the rumors, and hold his nose during the Jim Donnan/Quincy Carter days, I'm proud to be able to take my son to football games and point to Mark Richt not only as a good coach, but as a good man.
I love my team, but I love my son more and my first responsibility is to Thomas. I couldn't, in good conscience, teach him to cheer for a coach I didn't respect. I am grateful to Mark Richt for being a role model; that enabled me to take Thomas to last year's season opener (to see the S.E.C. championship banner being raised in Sanford Stadium) without qualms or reservations.
by T Kyle King on
May 8, 2007 10:40 PM EDT
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Head now stuck firmly in the sand
Richt is different from Donnan only in that he wears his religion on his sleeve while cultivating the false perception that his players are more pious than either their peers or their predecessors. Meanwhile, in the real world, UGA players continue to do what they've always done: act like normal college students, some of whom drink too much and act like idiots.
And Richt certainly has not returned Georgia to the elite level of College Football, at least by my definition of elite (which requires contending for a national championship). What's your definition of elite? Top 20? Not losing to Kentucky?
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 8:48 AM EDT
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34hawk, I respectfully disagree.
While the kids may not be behaving a lot better, there are consequences for it. Kids acting as kids is unavoidable to some extent. However how we as adults react to it is the variable that can be controlled. Donnan's choice (more often than not) was not to react.
And Jim Donnan didn't finish in the national top 10 four years running. That is elite. Especially when in one of those years you finish #3 in the country. That's fairly elite as well. In short, I respect you, but you are, as they say in south Georgia, flat wrong. Remember, the two worst years of Mark Richt's tenure 2002 and 2006) have been on par with the last four years of the Donnan error, I mean era. Sorry, Freudian slip.
Kyle is certainly capable of a far more nuanced response than this, and I feel certain he'll provide it later. Thanks for chiming in though.
by MaconDawg on May 9, 2007 9:36 AM EDT 0 recs
Short memory
And apparently Richt hasn't learned anything. Akeem Hebron is following the same path. If Richt needs him, Hebron will be back next year.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 12:37 PM EDT
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Odell and Hebron
As for Hebron. Who knows what kind of person he'll be after the year-long suspension. Maybe he never sets foot again on campus. Maybe he becomes a model citizen. In any event, Richt can't do anything about it for 12 months, so you're criticism is preemptive and unfounded.
by LD on
May 9, 2007 1:06 PM EDT
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wrong, wronger, and wrongest
Second, the absence of reported and verified "problems" after the 3 game suspension means only that Odell wasn't caught in an illegal or immoral act, not that he didn't commit such acts. He was a drunk before, and he was a drunk after. He was most likely a drunk in the interim.
Third, Mark Rich certainly can do something about Akeem Hebron now. What he could do is clearly communicate that players who are asked to leave (like Odell and Akeem) will not be welcomed back. As it is, talented but troubled linebackers have a way of finding their way back on scholarship and making big tackles in big games for Coach Mark Richt.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 2:56 PM EDT
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I'm confused.
You mean like Josh Johnson?
by Senator Blutarsky on
May 9, 2007 4:07 PM EDT
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Exactly
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 6:15 PM EDT
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I'm confused
Odell got the call back, and Josh didn't.
Can these two statements really be reconciled?
by T Kyle King on
May 9, 2007 6:49 PM EDT
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Who else do you refer to?
by Senator Blutarsky on
May 10, 2007 9:06 AM EDT
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You're throwing around some big accusations here.
Both Thurman and Braxton were "exceptionally cleared" for domestic dispute and affray.
Police chief Jimmy Williamson said that charges would have been filed if Thurman and Braxton were living together. "The young woman would have been arrested if they were cohabiting," he said.
Note a few things here. First, see those words "exceptionally cleared"? That means the police looked into it and saw no crime committed. Second, notice how the police chief says SHE would've been arrested, but doesn't say anything about Thurman getting arrested. Seems to show exactly who the cops thought was in the wrong, and it wasn't Odell.
As I read this article, it appears clear to me that Thurman got assaulted. So definitely Richt was in the wrong for not kicking him off the team. Is being the victim of a crime grounds for a 1 or 2 game suspension in your mind?
Now here's exactly what Richt said (not a journalist's retelling) in regard to Thurman's suspension: "Basically, we're not going to make anything public about what he did, but I felt like three games is fair." I'd bet that the situation may have had something to do with the suspension (probably part in parcel with a bigger picture "poor decisionmaking), but I don't know and you don't know the exact reasons for the suspension. What we do know is that something happened, Richt punished him, and after that Thurman wasn't a problem at UGA (see next paragraph).
As for your second paragraph, those are defamatory accusations. Do you know of anything Thurman did between his suspension and when he left campus? Do you know of anything that he did but wasn't caught for? Please provide details. As for what is reported as fact, after Richt's 3 game suspension, Thurman had a clean record at UGA. It wasn't until he was in Cincinnati, under that "man of character" that he started running afoul of the law again. If you know something otherwise, PROVE IT, don't just throw out unverifiable accusations.
Your third paragraph already has been knocked by Blutarsky, but I think you're even more incorrect than that. What is a coach to do? Zero tolerance policies? No judgment, simple - if you screw up, you're gone? Send troubled kids to the street? Or give a second chance and hope things turn around, with clear rules. Arguably, Thurman was a success story for Richt. Screwed up once bad, Richt sends him to GMC. Comes back, has a slip, Richt punishes him (last chance). After that... nothing (unless you have something to provide). He goes off to the Bengals and has a great rookie season. At that point, it seems like Richt did the exact right thing. Thurman's behavior at UGA improved, and he was able to make something of himself. Had he never been brought back, who knows what would've happened to him. It's only later, under the control of Marvin Lewis, that the story turns sour again - and Mark richt can hardly be blamed for Thurman's behavior 2 years after the fact. Hebron could be the same thing. He spends a year growing up and realizing how much he's screwed up, and he might come back a model citizen. Or maybe he goes home, screws around and never comes back. The point is that Richt's punishments show that he's willing to believe in these kids and give them a second chance. That's the message he sends. Yes, he could "send a message" by kicking off the team anyone who jaywalks. Richt wants his players to become better people - and cutting them off at the knees early on doesn't accomplish that. If Richt lets kids come back and they follow the rules and make something out of themselves, that's a great story. If Richt lets kids come back and they don't follow the rules, that's not necessarily a failure of Richt - it's a failure of the individual he allowed to come back. Just like it wasn't Richt's fault that Odell Thurman messed up after he was in the pros for 2 years. Thurman has all the responsibility on himself. For Akeem Hebron, this is the same situation. Richt can let him back with a short leash a year from now and hope that Hebron's mature and able enough to take responsibility for his actions. If so, he stays in the program and everyone's happy. If not, I have no doubt that he'd be gone swiftly.
by LD on
May 9, 2007 4:47 PM EDT
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Richt
by fotodog on May 9, 2007 10:08 AM EDT 0 recs
It's not for shock value...
UGA's clearly much better off under Richt, for the record. Three division championships, two overall SEC championships in six years, compared to zero of either in the preceding two decades since Herschel Walker left. He's also 16-12 against Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, LSU and Georgia Tech, the teams that got Donnan fired. I make no arguments about off the field behavior here, but there's no comparison on it.
by smq on May 9, 2007 10:23 AM EDT 0 recs
Well yes, but that wasn't the question.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 11:40 AM EDT
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Elite?
What say you, 34hawk?
by MaconDawg on May 9, 2007 11:51 AM EDT 0 recs
no such thing as "fairly elite"
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 12:12 PM EDT
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Elite
Unless your category of "Elite" includes just USC and nobody else, Georgia should be in that category.
by LD on
May 9, 2007 1:23 PM EDT
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"fairly elite"
I think there are probably 6-10 programs across the country who I'd count as "elite", and I'd count the University of Georgia as one of those. But if we only count those teams that have finished repeatedly in the top 3 and played for a national championship, then your definition is far more restrictive than mine.
In fact, this sounds like an excellent idea for a post . . .thanks 34. You're an inspiration.
by MaconDawg on May 9, 2007 1:14 PM EDT 0 recs
Elite programs in the SEC
Historically, Georgia has been strong in the way of Auburn (sorry Kyle)- competitive and always dangerous but (outside of a brief stint in the early '80's) not a national power, overshadowed by the likes of Alabama and Tennessee. Richt has taken the program to the next level, as one of the teams to beat (alongside Florida and LSU) in the conference. Richt will win a national championship and go down as the best coach in bulldog history.
by Black on May 9, 2007 3:53 PM EDT 0 recs
Georgia is still not a national power
Who else has done better? Mack Brown has done better at Texas. More 10 win seasons, and a national championship. Urban Meyer has done better. Not sure what his record was in his first year, but it was good. And he won the national championship last year. That's just off the top of my head.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 6:08 PM EDT
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Of course Mack Brown has had . . .
During his first six years at Georgia, Mark Richt had four 10-win seasons.
During his first six years at Texas, Mack Brown had three 10-win seasons.
During his first six years at Georgia, Mark Richt was 61-17.
During his first six years at Texas, Mack Brown was 59-18.
by T Kyle King on
May 9, 2007 6:25 PM EDT
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Brown
by LD on
May 10, 2007 10:16 AM EDT
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During his first two years at Florida . . .
During his first two years at Georgia, Mark Richt went 21-5 overall and 13-4 in S.E.C. play, counting the victory over Arkansas in the Georgia Dome during his 13-1 S.E.C. championship season in his second year on the job.
Are you really going to hold it against Coach Richt that Ohio State won a 14-9 game in the season-ender against Michigan in 2002 but U.C.L.A. won a 13-9 game in the season-ender against Southern California in 2006? 'Cause that's the difference between the two.
by T Kyle King on
May 9, 2007 6:31 PM EDT
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Nothing against Mark Richt
As for 2002, there are quite a few other differences. Other teams could make a compelling case -- Iowa especially -- for having the opportunity to play for a national championship in 2002. And was UGA really better than Miami? What really matters is that UGA couldn't beat Coach Ron Zook's 2002 team. If they had, it may well have been different. But they didn't, and so it's not.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 8:23 PM EDT
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Nothing against Urban Meyer...
Ergo, Tuberville is clearly better than Meyer?
And for the 10,000,000th time, WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR BOWL GAME, YOU LOSE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW YOU HAD AN ARGUMENT FOR A BETTER BOWL. Iowa has no compelling argument whatsoever for playing for a title in 2002 because they were blown out by the Trojans in the Rose Bowl. In hindsight, had Ohio State or Miami lost a game, the list of teams who (knowing what we know now) would have had a decent argument for playing in a title game that year are: 1) Miami/Ohio State with one loss; 2) Georgia. That's it. And even if you want to ignore the fact that the Hawkeyes lost by 3 touchdowns to USC, you don't really want to argue that Iowa had a better argument than Georgia that year, having the same number of losses, one fewer win, a strength of schedule (according to the BCS, back when they used SOS) 44 spots lower than UGA (49th vs. 5th), played the same number of opponents that ended up ranked in the final poll (though UGA played one more team that was ranked at the time the game was played).
by LD on
May 10, 2007 10:35 AM EDT
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It's really silly...
Mark Richt too has done what he was hired to do. The difference is that Richt's constituency is comparing him to Jim Donnan, a very good coach, and measuring him against that standard. Urban Meyer's constituency is comparing him to Steve Spurrier, one of the greatest college coaches of all time, and holding him to that standard. The results speak for themselves.
by 34hawk on
May 10, 2007 3:03 PM EDT
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For what it's worth . . .
Between 2002 and 2005, Coach Richt's Bulldogs won 13, 11, 10, and 10 games, respectively. Those four Georgia squads captured three Eastern Division crowns and won two Southeastern Conference championships, finishing the season ranked third, seventh, seventh, and 10th in the final Associated Press polls.
Contrary to 34hawk's claim that Coach Richt's teams have never contended for the national championship, the 2002 team never was ranked outside of the A.P. top 10, compiled a 13-1 record, and finished the season as the nation's No. 3 team. Like Auburn's undefeated 2004 team, the 2002 Red and Black squad was a victim of circumstance, but Georgia's 2002 record matched that of L.S.U.'s 2003 team and Florida's 2006 team.
From 2002 to 2005, the following coaches compiled the following won-lost records:
- Pete Carroll: 48-4
- Mack Brown: 45-6
- Mark Richt: 44-9
- Bob Stoops: 44-9
- Jim Tressel: 43-8
- Urban Meyer: 40-8
Admittedly, the Bulldogs had a (comparatively) down year in 2006 . . . as did Mack Brown's Longhorns. Of course, Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops had down years in 2005, and Jim Tressel had a down year in 2004, so perhaps even elite coaches are entitled to an occasional season in which they "only" win nine games, come within a touchdown of upsetting the eventual national champion, and end the season with three straight wins over ranked opponents. (Had Ray Goff or Jim Donnan had such "down" years consistently, there would have been dancing in the streets.)
Also, the other five coaches on that list all have won national championships and Mark Richt hasn't. The flipside of that, however, is the fact that, six years into his tenure at Texas, Mack Brown hadn't won a national title. In fact, Coach Brown hadn't even won a conference championship, he had captured only two division crowns (one of which he absolutely backed into), and, in his best season, he had gone 11-2.
Coach Richt has eclipsed all of those achievements in his first six seasons. Like Coach Brown, he also has recruited well and won 10 games a year with regularity. Also like Coach Brown, he has positioned himself to be one special player away from winning it all. Surely I am not the only one who thinks Matthew Stafford will not leave Athens without a ring.
Coach Richt's 61-17 record is the best ever compiled by a Georgia coach 78 games into his tenure. Wally Butts had a .615 career winning percentage (140-86-9). Vince Dooley had a .715 career winning percentage (201-77-10). Mark Richt has a .782 career winning percentage. If Mark Richt is not an elite coach, then Georgia has never had an elite coach.
As for Odell Thurman, there appears to be more to the story than 34hawk has indicated. As one source reported (with emphasis added):
Technically, 34hawk is correct: Odell Thurman was not, strictly speaking, suspended for three games because of the domestic incident, since he was cleared by the authorities. He was, however, suspended for a team rules violation . . . that being the "zero tolerance" policy of which Thurman had run afoul due to his indiscretions. A head coach who is holding his players to a greater degree of accountability than the police strikes me as a guy who is laying down the law even more so than, well, the law.
Let's assume, arguendo, that 34hawk is right about Thurman, though. Odell Thurman is 34hawk's default answer in assailing Coach Richt's disciplinary record. Whenever Jim Donnan's name is invoked, however, the names Quincy Carter, Charles Grant, and Jasper Sanks come tripping off the tongue and little digging would be required to exhume similar examples of bad seeds Coach Donnan tolerated and Coach Richt ran out of town on a rail.
Evidently, though, 34hawk has no second example, since he is forced to rely upon Akeem Hebron, who (despite being a talented player at a position at which the Bulldogs are noticeably thin) will not play a down of football next fall because he committed the truly shocking offense of being a University of Georgia freshman who drank alcohol twice while he was underage. You will pardon me if I am not exactly rushing to bolt my doors and lock my windows to guard against Hebron's rampant crime spree.
Finally, since the Kentucky example has been invoked, let us tell the tale in its entirety. Mark Richt lost to the Wildcats in his sixth season, in a year in which Kentucky went to and won a bowl game. Prior to that point, Coach Richt had been 5-0 against Kentucky. No other coach in University of Georgia history has ever started out as well as 2-0 against Kentucky.
I hate to break it to such naysayers in Bulldog Nation as 34hawk, but the sad truth is that Mark Richt is a good man and a great coach running an elite program in a reputable fashion. Somehow, some way, we will have to find a way to cope with the burdens of decency and excellence.
by T Kyle King on May 9, 2007 6:19 PM EDT 0 recs
the basis for excluding Mark Richt
"I believe most observers would consider the other five coaches on that list to be top-tier coaches running elite programs, so there would appear to be no basis for excluding Mark Richt and Georgia from their ranks."
As to other wayward behavior exhibited by Mark Richt's players, I assumed they were too numerous and obvious to be in need of recalling.
I cite Odell Thurman only as frequently as Donnan's detractors cite Quincy Carter -- no more, no less. But one could talk about other such exemplary characters as Ian Smith who passed out drunk on a toilet, or Daniel Inman who failed the drug test, etc....
I am open to considering all the evidence. I am not open to mindlessly extolling Richt's virtues and recounting Jim Donnan's vices without reference to the facts. The facts, as I see them, indicate that UGA football players seem to be getting in trouble at about the same rate as before. Richt doesn't recruit a better quality of person, he doesn't magically make his recruits better men, and his method of handling bad behavior does not seem to have any special effect on moderating said behavior.
by 34hawk on
May 9, 2007 8:38 PM EDT
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I'm not sure whom you are accusing . . .
The difference, as already has been noted by multiple commentators, is that Mark Richt responds to player indiscretions with genuine punishments. No one has ever claimed that he recruits only choirboys, merely that his disciplinary standards, his character education efforts, and his moral stances are far better suited toward improving imperfect young men than Jim Donnan's attitude of indifference or worse. In that respect, Coach Richt is hardly wearing his religion on his sleeve; he is following the Savior's example by calling sinners to repent.
Beyond that, at least I now know your sole and only standard is winning a national championship; as evidenced by your previous citations of Mack Brown and Urban Meyer, whose resumes are more impressive than Mark Richt's solely in that one respect, the essence of your argument is as simple as it is simplistic: coaches who have won national championships are elite; coaches who haven't, aren't.
In this respect, your standard for declaring a coach "elite" is consistent with your support for a playoff, as you prefer clarity and certainty over all competing virtues. (Why you would place a premium on winning a "mythical" national championship under a system in whose results you do not trust, I have no idea, however.)
By your lights, Larry Coker is an elite coach, but Frank Beamer is not. Dennis Erickson is an elite coach, but Rich Rodriguez is not. (In your defense, this also is consistent with your apparent opposition to the imposition of disciplinary standards.)
Provided that we give credit for all college football national championships, not just those won at the Division I-A level, former Troy State head coach Chan Gailey is an elite coach, but Kirk Ferentz is not, and former Marshall head coach Jim Donnan is an elite coach, but Mark Richt is not.
If that is the crux of our disagreement, 34hawk, you should have said so from the outset and we could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.
If the only thing standing between us and consensus on Mark Richt's elite status as a coach is Georgia winning a national championship on his watch, I would respectfully suggest that you and I table this discussion until the second week of January 2009, when you will see the light and our difference of opinion will be at an end.
by T Kyle King on
May 9, 2007 9:33 PM EDT
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Genuine and ineffective punishments
There are at least three issues at play here. First is the issue of discipline. In your telling, Jim Donnan never punished anybody for anything. This is simply not true. Second is the issue of public relations regarding discipline. Mark Richt is very good at that. Jim Donnan was not. Third is the effect of the coaches reward/punishment incentive system. Donnan and Richt seem to have had about the same effect on their players off field behavior.
And people who obscure or ignore the fact that Richt's players are about or at least as wayward as Donnan's may be fairly described, in my opinion, as mindlessly extolling Richt's virtues. Piling mountains of words on top of this simple empirical fact may be sufficient for the simple minded, but it doesn't not change the fact.
At the end of the day you seem to care more about style than substance. Mark Richt is your kind of man, and if he can't win a championship, and his players still misbehave, it doesn't really matter.
by 34hawk on
May 10, 2007 8:20 AM EDT
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"Better?"
I will acknowledge the obvious- Florida has Georgia's number and you could argue that a program can't claim elite status while consistently losing to a major rival, but Georgia is clearly one of the top 2-3 teams in the conference (maybe LSU and FLA are stronger right now). Looks rather elite to most folks.
Best regards.
by Black on May 9, 2007 6:28 PM EDT 0 recs
mack brown
by 34hawk on
May 10, 2007 8:23 AM EDT
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Some numbers to go with all those words
In six years as a Division I-A college football head coach (2001-2006 at Georgia), Mark Richt won 61 games.
by T Kyle King on
May 10, 2007 12:09 PM EDT
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And which fool ...
Urban Meyer's resume includes both an undefeated season at Utah and a national championship at Florida. Mark Richt's includes neither. Meyer has taken bad programs and made them better(Utah and Bowling Green) and he's taken a temporarily flagging but elite program and won a national championship. In winning a national championship he has already accomplished in two years what you predict Mark Richt might do in eight.
Mark Richt is a good coach. But he's no Urban Meyer.
by 34hawk on
May 10, 2007 3:21 PM EDT
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And which fool...
Utah wasn't a bad program. It is one of the top 2 programs in its conference. Bowling Green wasn't a bad program either. It is no worse (in terms of resources) than any other MAC conference.
And beside all of this, the "accomplishment" of a national championship inherently demands externalities to come into play, including LUCK. If you can say that Meyer's 2006 season was in any way better, objectively, than Richt's 2002 season, you'll be the first to say so. The only difference was that there weren't 2 undefeated teams (entirely outside the control of Meyer and Richt). So, basically, your entire argument is that Meyer's a better coach than Richt because he's luckier. OK.
by LD on
May 10, 2007 4:34 PM EDT
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Not a bad program?
Of course neither the Falcons nor the Utes played an SEC schedule. But the point you are working very hard to miss is that both programs were radically improved under Meyer, and they have never been better. Mark Richt can not claim either as an accomplishment. He did not turn UGA around -- Jim Donnan did that. And while Richt's 2002 season was very good, it was not so good as Vince Dooley's 1980 season.
Finally, if you wish to criticize Meyer for winning with Zook's players, please pay Jim Donnan the courtesy of crediting him with Richt's 2002 season.
by 34hawk on
May 10, 2007 6:49 PM EDT
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One year does not a program make.
Bowling Green's all time winning % against the MAC: 61.3%. AMONG CONFERENCE TEAMS, ONLY MIAMI (OH) HAS A BETTER RECORD ALL TIME AGAINST THE CONFERENCE. Bowling Green has won 10 conference titles. Only Miami has more (Toledo has as many). Effectively, Bowling Green is the second best program ALL TIME in their conference. They had a few bad years, replace their coach, but the program is obviously strong. #2 in relation to the rest of the league = not a bad program.
Utah's all time winning % against the MWC: 63.8%. Among conference teams, only BYU (barely ahead) and TCU (member of the conference just 2 years) have better all time records. Only BYU has as many MWC titles as Utah (each have 2 solo, one shared). Arguably, considering the limited time TCU has been a member, Utah is tied for the best program in the conference with BYU.
Sure, Meyer made both places better. He's a good coach. That was never the argument. The argument was that Richt's record at Georgia is remarkably similar, win/loss wise, to Meyer's. Only Meyer played drastically inferior opponents, and Meyer's programs did have natural advantages, in relation to their conferences. Of course the point we're making is that Meyer is a good coach and deserving of praise. And since Richt has a similar record against more difficult opponents, Richt is also deserving of the praise you're refusing to give him.
As for "turning UGA around", I dispute that Richt's improvement of the program is less deserving of praise than Donnan. Donnan's winning percentage at UGA: 67.8%, 10.4% above the previous coach. Richt's winning percentage at UGA: 78.2%, 10.4% above the previous coach. Donnan and Richt equally improved the program's fortunes (exactly), though arguably it's more difficult to improve a record the higher it was when it started.
In this chain, I've not mentioned that Meyer won with Zook's players. I haven't criticized him for that. I said it was luck that there weren't two undefeated teams to prevent Meyer from having a place in a title game (a fate suffered by Richt, Tuberville).
by LD on
May 11, 2007 12:54 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Good lord
That effectively ends this discussion. No time for trolls.
by Black on May 10, 2007 4:35 PM EDT 0 recs
He's also only had to beat...
Given your name and stupid adherence to your previously assumed conclusions, I'd think you were move of a Hawkeye or Jayhawk than a Bulldog. Urban Meyer may prove to be an awesome coach at UF. But so far, every single place he's coached has involved winning with the previous coach's players. Further, his winning last year had far less to do with his super-duper offense that ran all over the MAC and MWC than Charlie Strong's defense.
CMR has consistently won at a high percentage using a large number of his own players, including the 2005 SECC. He has consistently recruited at a higher level than any other coach in Georgia history and regularly has Georgia in the top five by signing day. If you can't see the difference between winning big at a place like Georgia, who is competing with AU, UA, UT, LSU and UF on a yearly basis, and winning big at schools that are competing with New Mexico State and Ball State, well, you're not really paying attention.
by SSB Charley on May 10, 2007 4:38 PM EDT 0 recs





