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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Georgia State University has commissioned Collegiate Consulting to conduct a study regarding the feasibility of a move to the NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS).

Stop it. Just stop it. You're embarrassing yourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know; that other GSU is not your father's commuter school, but this kind of delusional behavior is just embarrassing.

Can Collegiate Consulting count how many University of Georgia alumni sit in the General Assembly? Well, then, feasibility study completed, then.

Go 'Dawgs!

3 months ago Beard_47_series_wins_and_42_points_in_2007_tiny T Kyle King 129 comments 0 recs  | 

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FBS or not...

… I’m waiting for the day when we schedule, on a four-year rotation, Georgia Southern, Mercer, Kennesaw State, and Furman. You know… Just to piss off Bill Curry.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 21, 2012 10:16 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

We will bring the bleaters to say "please"!

Seriously, I’m totally looking forward to the renewal of the football series with Mercer. I’ve been to Macon twice to see Georgia face Mercer in baseball and men’s basketball, and, well, with the Auburn series on the verge of being shelved, we need to renew the only rivalry that antedates the one with the Plainsmen!

/reassuresSouthCarolinafansweconsidertheGamecocksabiggerrivalthantheBears

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I've said it before

But I absolutely can’t wait to be able to play GSU, GSU (you decide which is which to tick off both fan bases), KSU, and Mercer on a rotating basis as our I-AA patsy. If we’re going to be paying 500k+ for these games, I want the money to go and help out Georgia schools, not random ones from the Carolinas.

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 21, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Just for the record...

… we’ve played Furman more times than we’ve played Mercer. (Only one more time… but still.) So, they’re not exactly a “random team from the Carolinas.” We’ve got more history against them than we would against Georgia State, that’s for sure.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 22, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

My random Carolinian teams snark was referring more to the ones of the Western and Coastal varieties

And in light of our series with the Paladins, I would have no problem rotating them in every 20 years or so. I’m just adamant that if we have enough Georgia patsies we should help out their programs far, far, FAR more than other states’ programs. Keep Georgia Money In Georgia.

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 22, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Amen!

And, nothing against Furman, but those Mercer folks are good people, and a team gets credit for (a) having played us since 1892, and (b) having graduated a future Georgia head football coach.

Unless, of course, that team is Auburn. I hate Auburn.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 22, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I would now like to add Savannah State to the list of I-AA teams we should play

I didn’t even know Savannah State existed, but it does. And it’s I-AA. Give them a regular payday too.

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 23, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, you bet it does.

That’s the alma mater of Hall of Fame Tight End Shannon Sharpe.

by hailtogeorgia on Feb 23, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Why?

If any Georgia school was poised to move up, you’d think the closest would probably be Georgia Southern, right?

I mean, I remember when they were great in their division.

DawgSports/Falcaholic/Talkin' Chop

by blackertai on Feb 21, 2012 10:20 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed, and they're still pretty good.

Georgia State’s perception of itself is that, as a growing school with an improving reputation in downtown Atlanta, it’s a burgeoning college football powerhouse. Personally, I don’t think Georgia or Georgia Tech would allow a third Division I-A program in the state, but, if Georgia allowed Georgia State to move up, it would only be to annoy Georgia Tech.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Well with all of our discussions about dropping Tech

What better way to dig at them than to replace the yearly series with Georgia State. Once they get up and running, I’m sure they can clock in better than at three wins a decade (whose average is actually on the decline).

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 21, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Since you mentioned it....

…Georgia State’s budget is twice what Georgia Southern’s is.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

And no one seriously considers them a possible 1-A team

so saying you’re taller than a lil’ feller, doesn’t exactly make you tall now does it?

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No...

…but tall enough to be playing at the same level as Troy, UAB, USA, FAU, FIU, ULM, ULL, MTSU, etc. FBS does not equal SEC.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Then compare your budget to them

and not Southern.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

That was for those who think...

…Southern is a more natural choice to move up.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Media market

State has Atlanta, Southern has… what, exactly? Not that it makes sense from a standpoint of athletic accomplishments, but let’s face it, TV eyeballs are driving everything right now. I’m not opposed to any other school in the state moving up, because where are they going to go? Not the ACC or the Big East, that’s for sure. They’re more than welcome to CUSA or the Sun Belt.

by commodore_dude on Feb 21, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember, though, it's not the size of the media market near the team, . . .

. . . it’s the size of the team in the media market. Atlanta is a huge media market, yet the Hawks are not a major draw, two hockey teams have failed there, and Georgia Tech at one point reduced the size of its football stadium. Why? Because it didn’t matter how many eyeballs Atlanta had to offer if few of those eyeballs were affixed on a particular sport.

Maybe it’s just the crowd with whom I run, but I know a heck of a lot more South Georgians who care about Georgia Southern athletics than I know folks in Atlanta who care about Georgia State athletics.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 21, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

See I really don't think it matters that much

We just picked up Mizzou because of some notion that they drew eyeballs from St. Louis, and I have yet to see any evidence that that is actually the case. The People were saying we should go after VT/WVU because it would get us into the DC market, but, having lived there for several years, I can tell you that no non-Alumni people in DC or NOVA cares at all for those two teams.

I heard several years back that the Big East was very, very interested in Georgia State’s progress because of their “access” to the Atlanta market. As incredibly stupid and ignorant as it is to think that any team in Atlanta not named the Braves will draw tv audiences, I’m sure a conference like the Big East would jump at the chance to grab GSU when they come up.

by elfcrash on Feb 22, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd heard that the BE offered a couple of times

Back when they were good at hoopyball, but under the stipulation of adding football which the administration declined to do at the time. Now, with the Big East poised to have 13 football schools by 2015 (of course, Louisville will probably go to the Big 12 and bring that back down to 12), I’m not sure they would have any interest unless they came to their senses about offering Boise and San Diego State (and to a lesser extent SMU and Houston, but what do I know about geography). I just think they missed their chance there by 5 years or so.

by commodore_dude on Feb 22, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Just when I start to not care.....

…about UGA fans anymore, some ignorant mutt asshat rises up with arrogant BS like this.

Mr. King (though you clearly deserve neither of those identifiers), your delusion of the roll UGA plays in the plight of Georgia State is beyond laughable. I guess you’ve missed all of the money the General Assembly has been throwing our way lately, but then again, such things are probably above your paygrade.

You have one of the most profitable athletic departments in the country, and yet you are threatened by little ol’ GSU? Georgia is a top-4 recruiting ground, and yet has less than a third of the number of FBS schools than any of the other top four. North Carolina (5), Alabama (5), Louisianna (5) and Tennessee (4) all have at least than twice the number of FBS programs that Georgia has, and you are sweating buckets over adding #3? Hilarious! Hell, even Mississippi and Kentucky have three FBS programs!

Oh, and nobody thinks we are going to be a “powerhouse”, just that our natural fit in the CFB landscape is FBS. No school our size, in a market of our size, spends more than five years in FCS, and with realignment being what it is, now is the time for us to move up.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but don’t worry, UGA and Southern can keep all the south Georgia rednecks to themselves – we don’t need them.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 2:45 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks, Panthersville!

For the record, when you got here, you were just an idiot.

Now, however, you’re a banned idiot! Look at you, moving up in the world! Call you butter, ‘cause you’re on a roll (which, I gather, you would misspell “role”)!

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Does not disappoint. +1

I’m going to borrow some of that butter for my popcorn because I’m sensing this is just the beginning.

One of the authors at DawgSports.com

by Spears on Feb 23, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The banhammer is ready:

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

ooh ... superhero artifacts FTW.

My background is that of a committed DC partisan, so while I was aware of the existence of the hammer, I had no idea it bestowed own powers and bore such an inscription.

Ah, Wikipedia:

Editorial Staff, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
@NCThom
Go 'Dawgs!

by NCT on Feb 23, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

….and you people call Techies nerds….

by Lexwasp on Feb 23, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I replied below before realizing...

… that Lexwasp is a sockpuppet for user Panthersville. Same IP, created today after Panthersville was banned. So I’ve hidden his comments and banned him (again).

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 23, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, vineyarddawg.

Apparently, we banned Panthersville/Lexwasp simultaneously (at 3:47, to be exact).

However, I went back in and un-hid his comments, as a cautionary tale to benefit others.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that cleared it right up...

…nice retort (not sure about the spelling crack though, I guess adding the “Louisiana” reference at the last minute was a good idea.

You want to discuss this further, go to Panthersville.com where people don’t get banned for actually knowing what they are talking about.

by Lexwasp on Feb 23, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

For the record, Panthersville/Lexwasp, . . .

. . . you got banned for being a jackleg, not for knowing what you’re talking about, which you don’t.

For future reference, if you want to sign up a third time with a third name (since I have just banned this user name, as well), try not starting by calling the author an “ignorant mutt asshat” and following that up by telling him he is entitled to be called neither by the title “Mr.” nor by his surname.

I regret that you are too dumb to infer from my use of the word “roll” and my accompanying suggestion that you would misspell it “role” that you had used the word “role” and misspelled it “roll.” Next time, I’ll try it spelling it out for you even more simply.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that they don't teach English at Georgia State you see . . .

it’s just that this particular clown flunked it. And also doesn’t understand how IP addresses work. Or that being at best the 4th biggest sports attraction in a major media market is worth precisely . . .jack. And in general appears to have very poor manners. And may or may not have a Bill Curry shrine in his closet. But other than those relatively minor shortcomings he’s aces in my book.

Now on Twitter at @MaconDawg. Same great snark, fewer characters!

by MaconDawg on Feb 23, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed!

Also, Panthersville/Lexwasp, may not have read this (with emphasis added, for his benefit):

Georgia State is well-positioned to move to the Sun Belt from a budgetary standpoint. Its projected $22 million in revenues in 2011-12 is 44 percent more than the average Sun Belt member, according to the report. However, the difference in those revenues can be traced to student fees: Georgia State receives more than $16.5 million compared to $5.6 million for an average Sun Belt school. . . .

Georgia State’s revenues are almost $24 million less than the average Big East school, and 23 percent less than Conference USA.

"Institutional support would need to increase, but the primary increase would come from externally driven revenue from athletics," according to the report.

Georgia State’s expenses of $22 million are almost $20 million less than what they would spend as members of the Big East in 2014-15. The biggest expense increase would fall to Sports and Administrative Operations, which includes travel, and other non-salary, non-scholarship related items.

Collegiate Consulting does not consider the WAC or MAC to "be viable membership options."

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

(My bad for the extra comma.)

(See? I catch my typographical errors!) :)

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Funny...

No mention of the fact that our FCS budget is better than the Sun Belt average, and that that is where the report said we should go. However, I don’t believe anyone in this thread ever mentioned budget as a reason we should not move up.

So congratulations for adding new evidence to an argument you didn’t make….jackleg ;) (I guess that name is ok, right? I hope so, because it is a favorite of mine, though I usually reserve it for GaSo fans.) Sorry if I offended with my biting (though failry mild) name-calling. I thought that was the way you did things around here since you call an entire fanbase and administration “delusional”.

As for the spelling thing – you nailed me. I completely overlooked the “roll”. These things happen when the batteries on my wireless keyboard start to go out (I’ve fixed this post four times already).

And yes, I know quite a bit about IP addresses, which is why I’m surprised you haven’t banned mine yet. I never intended for you to not know who I was, just wanted to issue a polite invitation to discuss elsewhere. So, ban or don’t ban, your choice – but I would suggest banning the IP, because I got a whole bunch of gmail accounts.

by Taxwasp on Feb 23, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting use of the word "polite"

cause you certainly haven’t been.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting, reminds me of a story...

Went to a Tech-UGA game in I think 2003 (was in Athens and raining) Sat in my uncle’s season tickets on the 45-yard line, in seats 5-6 with my sister. Next to us in seats 3-4 were two Tech co-eds (have no idea how they got their seats. In seats 1-2 were a UGA fan and his son.

At some point, Tech rattled off 10 unanswered points (they still never actually led the game, and the four of us were cheering – no rudeness, no profanity, no baiting the fans around us, just cheering. At that point, the UGA fan in seat 2 leans over and tells us that we should “quiet down” because we were “guests” in that stadium.

I LOL’d and simply asked him if he had ever seen the way UGA fans behave at Tech’s stadium. He didn’t say anything else after that.

I don’t think my behavior is that out of line to the way a fledgling program was being talked about before I got here.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

According to my grandma...

…anecdotes about other people behaving badly are insufficient to warrant becoming such an anecdote yourself.

by first and thom on Feb 23, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If he didn't say anything else after that, . . .

. . . it was only because he was flabbergasted at the suggestion that Georgia fans’ behavior is even remotely as objectionable as Georgia Tech fans’ behavior. Not even Tech fans believe that.

Concerning the actual topic at hand, however, let me ask you, in all sincerity, whether you believe the overwhelming reliance of Georgia State athletics upon the involuntary tax of student fees, rather than on actual merchandise and ticket sales indicating fervor for the program, is a concern for the Panthers’ athletic future, and, if not, why not?

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

As a GSU alum...

…and having sat in the middle of UGA fans at both sites, and Tech fans at both sites, I would disagree. I will never sit in the upper endzone at Tech again for that game – I wouldn’t expose my wife and kids to what I witnessed there (and I was with a UGA fan who was also shocked).

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, . . .

. . . although it sounds like you came in with a strong anti-Georgia and pro-Georgia Tech bias, so some allowance must be made for that.

As someone who has attended many, many more Georgia games than you have (and who has taken my wife and son to several such games), I am happy to report that your experience is not typical.

Incidentally, if you were to try wearing red to a Georgia-Georgia Tech game, I think your experiences with both fan bases would be dramatically different. Also, if Georgia State does move up to Division I-A, the attitude you as a Georgia State fan will encounter from Georgia Tech fans will change your tune about Georgia Tech fans in rather a large hurry, guaranteed!

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

As a life-long Atlantan...

…I am well aware of the downfalls of Tech fans, not the least of which is their elitism. However, I also know that a larger proportion of Tech fans actually went to the school, and that all of them are inundated with jeers from UGA fans who for some reason do not act like they are as dominant in the series as they are.

Like I’ve said, I’m trying to put all of that past me – my alma mater now has a football team, and I haven’t been to a Tech game since that was announced.

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

So encountering one impolite jerk (if your story is indeed truthful

gives you permission to be an impolite “asshat” to any others? Interesting theory.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Never said it did...

…the story was not a justification – just an example of someone calling someone else “impolite”, when the environment did not call for extreme amounts of decorum.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you will find, Panthersville, . . .

. . . that we in these parts exercise rather a significant degree of decorum, compared to many other college sports sites. Since you have registered for four user accounts here today, I know you’ve seen the site rules indicating that expectations for conversation here are rather high.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Why don't you check this site out

….and tell me if your overall opinion of Tech fans versus UGA fans doesn’t change a bit. I would like to say that’s an isolated item, but that’s just one of about a million threads over there that are pretty disgusting and show just how pathetic the Techie little man complex is when it comes to UGA. Don’t kid yourself believing that UGA fans are somehow worse behaved than Tech fans. As TKK said, try to wear red when that game is in Atlanta and you’ll see a whole other side of general nastiness.

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Feb 24, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I am aware...

…of Stingtalk, but I am more familiar with the Hive and Dawg Post – and comparing those two, the nastier comments are usually on Dawg Post.

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

We are not Dawg Post...

… nor is it reflective of the vast majority of Georgia fans.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 24, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

especially the free boards

those tend to be lowest common denominator boards, for all schools.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 25, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously? Another sockpuppet?

Just for the record, for you and anyone else reading this, sockpuppets are prohibited here and at all SB Nation blogs. If we ban your original account, we are going to ban your sockpuppet without any additional questions asked. If you think your original ban was unjust, you should e-mail Kyle by clicking on the envelope beside his name at the bottom of this webpage.

Creating a new sockpuppet will only get the new sockpuppet banned, too.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 23, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again, vineyarddawg, . . .

. . . we overlapped.

Since you banned Taxwasp, I went ahead and un-banned Panthersville, to see if he can play nicely using his original name. (For the record, by the time I got there, he had created a new user name, “JeeS.You,” so, if he can’t, we’ll need to ban that one, too.)

At this point, I’m giving him a little rope. He can grab onto it or hang himself with it, as he chooses.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

…this does make it easier.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You're welcome.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

An IP-wide ban is an extreme step, as it potentially affects other users.

To your point, in the first paragraph of the passage I quoted, the report states clearly that Georgia State has more revenues than the average Sun Belt program. It also explains why: Georgia State subsidizes its athletics program using student fees, at a rate almost three times the Sun Belt average.

The consulting firm recommends that the Panthers attempt to move up to the Sun Belt, despite only just preparing to begin play in their current Division I-AA conference, in an effort to use the Sun Belt as a launching pad for major conference membership. However, while that route has worked for some Conference USA schools, no team that has competed in the Sun Belt since 1992 has succeeded in making such a leap, and the report suggests why: Georgia State’s Sun Belt-level revenues, even with a massive student fee subsidy, are roughly half what they would need to be to compete in the Big East, and roughly three-quarters what they would need to be to compete in Conference USA.

While you are right that I did not previously mention finances specifically, these numbers suggest strongly that Georgia State’s Division I-A ambitions are a bit premature, which was the source of my claim that many Panther fans are delusional regarding their school’s athletic prospects. I will be happy to discuss with you reasonably whether, and to what extent, this is so, though my past experiences with Georgia State fans (when I have criticized not Georgia State University, nor the Panthers, but Bill Curry, with whom the University of Georgia has much history) have not been encouraging in this regard.

I stand prepared to continue this conversation in a significantly more civilized manner than that in which it previously has proceeded.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Being unaware of Big East TV deals

would that subsequent step up not coincide with increased revenue from a conference that has a larger revenue stream?

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably, but doubling your money?

That, I couldn’t tell you . . . but I’d be willing to bet the Big East would be insistent about a return on its investment, and, since it appears that the Panthers are being paid for predominantly out of student fees, rather than through the ordinary athletic avenues of merchandise and ticket sales, I have my doubts about Georgia State’s attractiveness as an option for that league.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

MOAR EAST

This is where I would post a picture of the Easter Island statutes and say “Easters gonna East.”

by first and thom on Feb 23, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You are getting ahead of yourself....

This seems to be the common argument – “you don’t have it in FCS, so you won’t have it in FBS”. This goes against everything we know about the way CFB works. This is a major league town – minor league doesn’t work here. Will Sun Belt work better than FCS? Yes Will CUSA work better than Sun Belt? Yes. Will Big East work better than CUSA? Yes (assuming they don’t completely screw-up their conference by then). THAT is the progression (which is why MWCUSA would be a better starting point – their average budget will go down drastically after the merger as they have lost their 4 top schools).

Just because we have no shot at ever being an SEC team doesn’t mean that we should go for the best we can get. The fact that realignment is happening now means that we have to act now. If we don’t, it could be a very long time before another opportunity comes along.

Oh, and don’t take the article for its word – the effort to move up is not in as preliminary a phase as the articles suggests. Active discussions are being had with multiple conferences (this is not by guessing, it is fact), and the interest is mutual.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you have any citations for that last paragraph?

Otherwise, it’s just some guy from Panthersville telling me what he’s selling me is real, and I don’t generally trust those sorts of claims without a third party confirming.

/AmITalkingAboutDrugsOrGeorgiaState?

by hailtogeorgia on Feb 23, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Not quotable ones...

but here ya go:
http://georgiastate.scout.com/2/1160595.html

Plus other Conversations with people who know but won’t go on the record. I have no problem saying it as fact. If you don’t believe me, we will find out soon enough who is right.

by Panthersville on Feb 23, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

To be clear,

being skeptical of the truth of a claim is a bit different than saying “I’m right, you’re wrong.”

I’m not really taking a stance on it either way, I just wanted some citation other than you telling me it’s a fact.

by hailtogeorgia on Feb 23, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

you said they are “in talks” but “won’t go on the record”. Now, that can be found out if the talks actually materialize in to something. But if they don’t, there is no proving you right or wrong.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

to be fair to you

my “in talks” quote is inaccurate, and should be in “active discussions” which is also unproveable unless someone goes on the record.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not getting ahead of myself at all, Panthersville.

I am merely addressing present realities when projecting forward into the future, as any reasonable person must, and as Georgia State clearly was attempting to do by hiring a consulting firm to evaluate the feasibility of a move to Division I-A.

Pretermitting the question of how exactly one might square the sentiment expressed in your 5:16 p.m. comment about Georgia Southern’s budget with your 5:08 p.m. comment about Georgia State’s, the question remains, and it is a valid, rather than an insulting, one: Given that a disproportionate share of the Panthers’ athletic budget comes from the university, in the form of the involuntary tax of student fees, rather than from boosters, in the form of merchandise and ticket sales, what is the basis for believing that there is an untapped fan base out there waiting to leap on the Georgia State bandwagon, if only the Panthers would move from Division I-AA to the Sun Belt? There may be such a basis, but it is far from apparent, and it raises legitimate questions about Georgia State’s ability to pull its own weight fiscally in a Division I-A conference.

I quite agree that Atlanta is a major league town, so much so that the Hawks have never been a consistent draw, two NHL teams have failed to take root despite growing numbers of northern transplants to the Atlanta area, Georgia Tech at one point reduced the number of seats in its stadium, and Braves fans consistently have been berated for their failure to show up even during the team’s extraordinary run in the 1990s. Georgia State could be (though it is not yet) the Georgia Southern of Atlanta, a Division I-AA powerhouse. The Eagles historically have been a big fish in a small pond; the Panthers aspire to be a small fish in a big pond, at least at first. What is the basis for believing that will work?

As I hope is clear, Panthersville, I am making a sincere effort to engage you in a serious conversation without disparaging your school, your sports team, your fan base, your mascot (I haven’t used the feline equivalent of “mutt”), or your surname (or your entitlement to use it). I’m not saying “you don’t have it in FCS, so you won’t have it in FBS”; I’m asking how that will happen, because I sincerely don’t see how such a move will succeed, given the financial reality that Georgia State fans aren’t supporting the program enough voluntarily to prevent Georgia State students from having to support it involuntarily to keep it afloat.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 23, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The basis for believing that GSU could have a significant fanbase is simple:

100,000K alumni in the Atlanta area, 31K+ students (and growing – projected to surpass UGA in five years).

In addition, there are many college football fans in the Atlanta area who do not have allegiance to either current FBS team, and would LOVE to have an alternative. We already have fans with no connection to GSU who are fans because they are turned off by the elitism of Tech and the arrogance of UGA (not making this up, I talked to several). In my conversations with non-fans about it, that same sentiment can be found, and if givin an FBS alternative, they would check it out. They wouldn’t become season-ticket holders overnight, but there is definately an untapped market that a broad-based, open, “underdog” school like GSU can tap into.

As for the “Georgia Southern of Atlanta” – there already is one – Georgia Southern. More of their alums live here than anywhere else. Add to that that Kennesaw State will soon be building a program and anyone with an interest in FCS football will have plenty of options. GaSo has in deed been a big fish in a small pond. They have 6 NC’s that nobody cares about, their stadium capacity is the same as it was 20 years ago, and their administration has no intention of going anywhere – and that works just fine for them. Georgia State simply cannot follow that model. There is no reason for a 31K-student national research university located in a top-10 market to play FCS football – you will not generate the interest needed for the program to help raise the overall profile of your school (which is what it is all about, for me anyway). When you have facilities, budget, size and market that can take you to the next level, why not do it?

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this quote...
There is no reason for a 31K-student national research university located in a top-10 market to play FCS football…

… but NYU doesn’t have a football team at all. Nor does the University of Chicago, Long Beach State, or Cal State-Fullerton.

Sacramento State does, however. What division do they play in?

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 24, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Should we name all the schools....

….that fit that profile that do have football programs? That list is much longer, and with much more noteriety, than yours.

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Examples of schools (sort of) meeting your criteria who have successfully started a football team, then immediately moved to I-A and still been successful:
  1. South Florida

That is all.

And all of their financial support came during the real-estate-fueled boom of the late ’90’s and 2000’s. Who/what is fueling Georgia State’s hypothetical meteoric rise in support, financial resources, and success?

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 24, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

$16.5 million is just a drop in the bucket for a Division I-A program.

When you move from I-AA to I-A, at a bare minimum you have to fund at least 20 more scholarships annually and more coaching staff. To compete with even the mid-majors in a “top 10 media market,” as Panthersville is claiming, you will also have to significantly increase your recruiting budget, marketing and PR, and build/improve facilities out the wazoo, and continue to do so on an annual basis.

That last point, in particular, is what would consume $16.5 million as a mere down payment. If you want to play with the big boys, a program needs big-boy money.

I don’t doubt that there are thousands of people, maybe even tens of thousands of people, in Atlanta who would be interested enough initially in Georgia State as a Conference USA (or whatever it will be called) team to donate and purchase tickets. After the novelty of that first season or two wears off, however, how many of them would continue to financially support the program? How about after the team suffers its first 4-8 or 3-9 season?

It’s a slippery slope in Division I-A. It doesn’t take long for a program to achieve perennial “Tulane” status. And there won’t be a BCS conference there to swoop up Georgia State like there was for South Florida. (In fact, as has been covered previously on this site and others, there likely won’t be BCS automatic bids for conference champions at all in a few years.)

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 24, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

This man speaks the truth.

The argument here is really whether the Georgia legislature would approve a move by GSU to Division 1A (or FBS or whatever). Only about half of Division 1A programs actually make money on football. When you take into account the full athletic program, only 10-20% actually turn a profit. With the State of Georgia running a huge budget deficit for the foreseeable future, why on Earth would the legislature authorize GSU’s move to Division 1A when it’s probably going to cost the State millions of dollars?

We’re joking around a lot here, but the original point still stands: about a third of Georgia’s lawmakers graduated from UGA. Now, UGA isn’t known as a math school, but the alumni in the capital are smart enough to avoid what is probably a losing bet when they don’t have a sentimental (or political) incentive to do it.

One of the authors at DawgSports.com

by Spears on Feb 25, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Because I always reserve the right to plead alternately and inconsistently...

… I have to say that I don’t get the argument that “a lot of Georgia legislators are UGA alumni, so they will block Georgia State going to Division I-A/FBS.”

I mean, I agree with the purely financial argument, but why does it matter that they are UGA alumni? I have no personal animosity or ill will towards Georgia State, and I don’t see why UGA alumni would, either. (In fact, I personally know at least 3 people who graduated from UGA and then got their JD from Georgia State. So perhaps there even may be some sympathy with the idea of trying to make it to the “big time” among that set of alumni.)

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 25, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

My point was simply that they're UGA alumni and not GSU alumni.

If a 1/3 of the legislature had graduated from GSU, I’m guessing there would be more discussions about moving up, and personal/political considerations might ultimately outweigh the financial ones.

Full disclosure: I took some night classes at GSU when I was considering grad school options, and they were great. I have no animosity whatsoever toward GSU, and I don’t really know anyone who does.

One of the authors at DawgSports.com

by Spears on Feb 25, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, ok.

We’re on the same page now.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 25, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Or what would be even worse

is if they get a short end and sabotaged ala UAB.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 25, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

#MikeB4GSU

(#MikeB4Anybody)

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 25, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, whoa!

Nobody told me Mike Bobo becoming the head coach at Georgia State was an option!

Yeah, all right, we have a deal, then: Georgia State fires Bill Curry, Georgia State hires Mike Bobo, and Georgia State moves up to Division I-A with the full blessings of the entire Bulldog Nation.

I know some Panther fans have a sentimental attachment to Bill Curry, but they should remember the success that follows a Bill Curry firing: Georgia Tech and Alabama both demonstrated the validity of the theory that the path to a national championship is to hire Bill Curry, fire Bill Curry, and wait three years.

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Feb 26, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You added a criteria...

…of “immediately moved to 1-A”. I would say that the current environment of relalignment is moving up our timeline a bit, but without that, I would put us in the category of USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, USA, UCONN, etc. If you add long-term programs, I think UCLA (as an urban school) would be a good model.

There still seems to be a lot of talk below about “competing with the big boys”. As I have said, there is a large gap between the bottom of FCS and the top. We will enter at or near the bottom and work our way into wherever we naturally fit – but there is no way that FCS is ever a natural fit for a school with our stats.

by Panthersville on Feb 27, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

But the only schools in a "Top 10 market" of the ones you mentioned...

… are FIU, FAU, and UCLA. And trust me, my friend… UCLA ain’t a program you want to be emulating. (That article I linked to is part 3 of a series, and but parts 1 and 2, which are linked in the article are excellent, as well.)

And FIU and FAU have in no way proven that they won’t permanently be consigned to “Tulane” status. (That is, perennial also-rans with losing seasons 7 out of every 10 years, and a bowl appearance about once a decade.)

I think Georgia State, given its location and fanbase, could be a I-AA/FCS powerhouse if it has the right investment and resources. What other I-AA school gets to play in the Georgia Dome? Or gets to domicile itself right in the center of the heartbeat of college football in the south? These are natural recruiting advantages that no other I-AA school can boast.

I say the Panthers should concentrate on becoming the new I-AA powerhouse in the state. Develop a rivalry with Georgia Southern. Make deep runs in the I-AA playoffs, and win multiple championships. If I were a State alumnus, I would far prefer that to consigning myself to “also-ran” I-A/FBS football.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 27, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Easy for a UGA fan to say...

…but I don’t know ANY GSU fans that would agree. Some did initially, but after actually observing the situation for a while, they all now realize the FBS is the only long-term option for us to have a viable program. Yes, we are right in the middle of the heartbeat of college football in the south – wouldn’t that be an advantage to going FBS? Plus, that “heartbeat” only beats for FBS, most CFB football fans don’t know the difference between FCS and Div II (trust me, I’ve had to explain it enough times).

As for the market sizes of the schools I mentioned – I was doing you a favor by naming schools with smaller markets. If UCF, USF and UCONN can be successful, that only heightens the argument for a school in a larger market, not the other way around.

by Panthersville on Feb 28, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure that I agree.

One of the nice things about being in a smaller town is that you get more concentrated support because there are fewer distractions. It’s one of the things that drove Marshall’s (temporary) success. The “top 10 market” factor, like you originally mentioned, is one of the reasons Southern Cal and Miami couldn’t even regularly sell out their stadiums when they were winning Division I-A national championships.

Still, as I said, I can respect that you and many State fans would feel differently. I just don’t think the historical data stack up favorably for such a move, though.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 28, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

"In my conversations with non-fans about it, that same sentiment can be found, and if givin an FBS alternative, they would check it out"

So basically you’re trying to placate some mysterious group of fans that really, really want to watch college football but won’t because you’re I-AA instead of I-A? How does that work out logically? If anything, that further points to these “fans” being of the same variety as other Atlanta team fans – passing interest when the going is good, could not care less when bad (and sometimes even when good). If that’s the type of fan State wants to recruit, then that’s a recipe for disaster.

I have no problem with State ever actually moving up. However, it seems ludicrous to me to be thinking about such a move when the team is only two years old. You have to learn to walk before you can run, and all those other pithy sayings.

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 24, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

"failry" has to be one of the better Freudian typographical errors

failry – n. the practice of fail. See, e.g., butthurt GSU fans’ behavior on message boards

One of the authors at DawgSports.com

by Spears on Feb 23, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What is UGA's beef with GSU?

I’m not sure what beef UGA has with GSU moving up. I don’t really look at UGA as a potential rival down the road. Personally, I’m staring straight at Tech as who we are targeting for recruits, rivalry and (hopefully one day) supremecy in Atlanta. I mean, UGA is UGA is UGA. There are plenty of quality athletes that go to other FBS schools out of state because there is not another option for them after UGA and Tech are done recruiting.

by GSUtimes2 on Feb 24, 2012 9:58 AM EST reply actions  

I don't think there's any beef with Georgia State...

to me, it seems that Georgia State folks think anyone who disagrees with the idea that Georgia State should move to FBS is anti-Georgia State. Is it that far-fetched that some folks may think it’s simply a bad idea? Example: There’s a woman from my hometown named Mary Lovett Robinson. Mary Lovett Robinson is, by all accounts, a wonderful, loving, caring, kind human being. She also happens to be well into her 90s, yet she still drives herself everywhere. Personally, I think she shouldn’t be driving, because…well…I don’t think anyone well into their 90s should be driving a vehicle equipped to travel at high rates of speed. Does that mean that I have beef with Mary Lovett Robinson? Absolutely not…it simply means that I don’t think it’s a good idea for her to drive.

Stop taking everything so darned personally. Oh, and as for your last sentence, the idea that the quality athletes are going out of state because there’s not another option for them after UGA and Tech are done recruiting is silly. For Georgia, this has likely occurred, but I don’t think Tech has turned down anyone for lack of room…they’re struggling to keep the commits they have, much less turning folks away.

by hailtogeorgia on Feb 24, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I suppose the one positive from Georgia State potentially moving to FBS

Is that Paul Johnson will now have to contend with a much bigger school with extremely lower academic hurdles literally 15 blocks away recruiting against him. It would be amusing to see how quickly Tech would become even more irrelevant in Atlanta than it already is.

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Feb 24, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I think by "quality"...

…he means people that are good, but that aren’t good enough for UGA, or smart nough for Tech. There are a whole lot of kids going to the MAC, Sunbelt, Big East and CUSA conferences out of Georgia. Georgia State may not keep anyone from going to the ACC, SEC (though we did get one this year who was being recruited by Miss State), or Big 10/12, but we could get enough to quickly become relevant in lower-tier FBS.

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm....

…“Stop it. Just stop it. You’re embarrassing yourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know; that other GSU is not your father’s commuter school, but this kind of delusional behavior is just embarrassing.”

We aren’t supposed to take this personally?

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you're not.

You’re trying to move into an already saturated market, it’s a silly idea.

by elfcrash on Feb 24, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Already saturated?

I think I’ve said this before, but let’s look at the other top-4 CFB recruiting states:
Florida: 7 FBS schools
Texas: 12 FBS schools
California: 7 FBS schools

However, those are the top-tier, so let’s just throw those out. Now let’s look at other states in the Southeast, along with populations (rounded down):
Alabama: 4 FBS schools, 4.802 million
Kentucky: 3 FBS schools, 4.369 million
Louisiana: 5 FBS schools, 4.574 million
Mississippi: 3 FBS schools, 2.978 million
North Caroliina: 5 FBS schools, 9.656 million
South Carolina: 2 FBS schools, 4.679 million
Tennessee: 4 FBS schools, 6.403 million

Now, this gives us 26 FBS schools covering 37.464 million people. That works out to an average of 1 school for every 1.440 million people.

Georgia on the other hand, has the highest population of 9.815 million, and is tied for the lowest number of FBS schools with South Carolina (who has less than half of our population) with 2. According to the average above, Georgia could have SEVEN (7) FBS schools and be within the average.

Georgia is not saturated for FBS football by any means. Just because UGA has enjoyed an unusually large market share doesn’t mean it should always be that way.

by Panthersville on Feb 24, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Need a map with this math.

I suppose these numbers are accurate, but I worry that they don’t tell the whole story. Clemson is on Lake Hartwell. FSU is less than an hour from Valdosta. Auburn is just a few exits into Alabama on I-85, and folks in Columbus split pretty strongly between UGA and Auburn. Atlanta attracts numerous graduates from all schools in the region (and beyond). To a much greater extent than the other states you list (besides Florida, which is sui generis), Georgia has a transplant population with extra-territorial loyalties.

The point is that Georgia’s potential collegiate fanbase is largely spoken for. If there is pent-up demand for college football, Tech would sell out every game. The state’s fans support lots of schools. I am rather dubious of the “if you build it, they will come” approach to another triple option team playing games in downtown Atlanta.

by first and thom on Feb 24, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Virtually every single SEC school heavily recruits Georgia, as well.

Besides the border struggles with the schools first and thom named, Alabama and Tennessee both consider Georgia part of their “home recruiting ground,” and Vandy heavily recruits kids that meet their academic criteria, as well.

And that’s not even counting the near-Georgia schools that State would hypothetically be competing with for I-A recruits, such as UAB, East Carolina, Middle Tennessee State, Troy, and 1-AA powers like Georgia Southern and App. State. (And don’t kid yourself; some kids prefer to go to 1-AA teams with a chance to win a title rather than Sun Belt teams with whom they would be doing well to win 5 games in a season.)

Georgia is not saturated with I-A and I-AA universities, but we are saturated with schools are still near Georgia and recruit heavily in our state.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 24, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not seeing why this is a problem....

I’m not talking about competeing against SEC and ACC schools for recruiting, I’m talking about competing against MAC, Big East, Sunbelt and CUSA schools. We have had recruits tell us that the only reason they would not pick GSU is that we aren’t FBS. The MAC has 32 kids from Georgia, CUSA has 80, Big East has 36 and Sun Belt has 95 – some of those would have stayed home if there was a non-AQ FBS option here.

by Panthersville on Feb 27, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You're missing the point

Like Thom said, all those present in Atlanta who would root for college football probably already have one. Of that population you cited, there isn’t a huge mass of unclaimed college football fans roaming around the state. Sure, as more GSU fans graduate, your fanbase will rise; but odds are you’re not going to convert anyone from the schools that have been in existence for longer, or, for that matter, get transplants from NFL towns looking for a team to root for you over Tech or UGA. You’d get as many new fans, and thus, about as many eyeballs watching your games, staying in the FCS. I just don’t see how moving to the FBS at this point will change any of that for you.

by elfcrash on Feb 24, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree...

There are plenty of, lets call them “casual CFB fans” who will watch FBS, but have no interest in FCS (I would put myself in this category as I have never watched an FCS game that GSU wasn’t in, but I do watch a few CUSA games every year). Many of these would be in our alumni base – yes they are currently fans of other teams, but they will never have the connection to those teams that they will have to GSU.

I know this because just about every current GSU fan was in the same boat. The biggest and best GSU fans are people who had strong allegiances to other teams – FSU, UF, UGA, GT, etc., but always wanted that connection that non-alums can never get. Now they can have that, and are willin gto put up with a few years of FCS football if it can get them back to where they were (fans of a FBS team) with their alma mater. If GSU can offer that same thing to people without them having to put up with FCS football, more will switch over.

by Panthersville on Feb 27, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Still not sold on this point.

My experience with GSU is that a lot of the commuter population does not form a primary bond with GSU. The GSU school spirit crowd (amongst students and alumni) is present and growing, but hardly huge. These folks, plus a few casual fans who are either channel surfing or milling around Atlanta on Saturdays in the fall, do not a hungry and devoted fanbase make.

GSU has the size to foster a real football following out of its student body going forward. Atlanta certainly has the population and infrastructure to handle another major program. But “it’s possible” is a long way from “it’s a good idea.”

by first and thom on Feb 27, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

…31K+ showed up for the inaugural game. I’d say that there are at least that many people interested enough in Georgia State to attend a game. Did all of them stick around for FCS play? No. Would many come back for FBS play? Yes.

I guess I’m just having a hard time figuring out why maintaining a minor-league program in a major league town is a better idea than taking that program to the next level. So what if students are paying for it to get it going? The fact remains that there is room in the market for another FBS program, and Georgia State is the best-positioned school to move into that space. If they can get an FBS conference to bite, how can staying in a Northeastern FCS conference be better? The guaranteed games alone will make up a huge part of the cost differences. We no get about $00K for a game, whereas in FBS we would get around $1 million a game – that’s a lot of scholarships paid for.

by Panthersville on Feb 27, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think my response to that...

… is that I think it’s better to be the best damn minor-league program in the country rather than be #80 out of 120 at the major-league level.

I respect that you could have a different opinion, but I think being a I-AA powerhouse would lead to locally televised games (which would be watched all across the very large Atlanta metro area), and lead to some of that increased revenue like you’d see in a Sun Belt-like conference.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 27, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

FCS Champions....

…do not get half the guaranteed money that bottom-tier FBS schools do. The best that GaSo, with it’s six championships, can do is an occasional game on GPTV. The only regular nationally-televised FCS game are the weekly ESPN2 HBCU games (seriously, it is some of the worst football in FCS, we all know why they get a weekly ESPN2 game), and we aren’t an HBCU.

by Panthersville on Feb 28, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how you know that everybody would come back to watch GSU get beat by better teams.

Because that is what the lumps are like in making the transition. You seem very certain, and I can’t quite figure out why.

The downside risk for the schools is that going big will be expensive in dollars and administrative time. If it doesn’t pay off in a reasonable time span, it will be hard to justify the continued expense. Sports will get cut. It’ll be embarassing for the school, and it will make the jump even harder to make the next time.

I don’t understand the urge to gamble like that, especially when the prize is competing (and hopefully winning a little) in the Sun Belt.

by first and thom on Feb 27, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I am certain....

…because I have talked to enough people – alumni or not – who would be much more interested if they knew GSU was playing at the highest level. As I said, most fans think FCS is the equivalent of Div II. The most common question from these fans is, what bowl would your conference go to? When you tell them that your level doesn’t do bowls, they are done. Only once you tell them that you could go to a bowl are they interested.

by Panthersville on Feb 28, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait....

So why would they show up if you were in FBS? People show up to see (a) a winning team or (b) a bad team play the team they root for. If people didn’t show up to watch you play FCS competition, what makes you think people are going to show up to watch you play Troy, ULM, ULL, Memphis, etc. etc.?

I like the idea of GSU playing in FBS someday. I’m not worried about you stealing recruits from us. I just don’t think it’s a wise decision until you have an established fanbase. People will not show up to watch a team get whooped every weekend for several years unless they have a strong tie to that school, and I don’t think it can be said that GSU in any way has that kind of fanbase.

by elfcrash on Feb 27, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

People show up...

….to watch THEIR team play if it is compelling. FCS isn’t compelling to most people in Atlanta. A step-up to FBS would increase that number. Again, I know this through my conversations with grads and potential non-grad fans (as I’ve said before, there are plenty of football fans who don’t like either of the current two choices).

by Panthersville on Feb 28, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

To be "compelling"

You have to win games, and I just don’t see how a team 2 years removed from non-existence is supposed to suddenly win games on the big stage, even in a place like the Sunbelt. Western Kentucky had been around a long time and had a winning tradition in the FCS, and they only won like 3 games in 4 years. I don’t care what the people you’ve talked to have said, if GSU isn’t winning games, not even the students will show up.

by elfcrash on Feb 28, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, there are lots of examples of programs with decades of history making the jump only partially-successfully.

Marshall, Western Kentucky, Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, Louisiana Tech, and to a limited extent Idaho (who were only ok to begin with as a I-AA team) are all examples.

I understand that Panthersville thinks “but we’ll be different,” but literally only one program has historically been different in that way. (The aforementioned USF.) UCF has had some measure of success, but that really only includes a C-USA championship and beating Georgia.

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Feb 28, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You had 31k at the inaugural game

That’s nice. I say that without being sarcastic. However, extolling the potential for a program based solely on its first game ever is a mistake. There were probably many people that went to that first game solely because, and this is important, it was the first game ever. That’s the kind of spectacle you don’t see every day (although with two more schools in Georgia about to start teams, we’ll get that spectacle twice more). I was highly interested in going to the first game because it was State’s first game ever; I didn’t go for other reasons which I don’t remember.

The 984 Has Spoken!

by The984 on Feb 27, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not solely on that game....

…it our first two years, we were top-15 in FCS attendance, and had more attendance than some of the Sunbelt schools we are talking about.

Again, it doesn’t take SEC-sized crowds to support an FBS program.

by Panthersville on Feb 28, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

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Managers

Beard_47_series_wins_and_42_points_in_2007_small T Kyle King

017oa_small MaconDawg

Editors

Redstage_small DavetheDawg

Whistling_past_small NCT

434477_small vineyarddawg

Layfield_logo_small RedCrake

Hey-why-so-serious_small chuckdawg

Podunkdawg_as_a_child_small podunkdawg

Dawggone_small Ludakit

Authors

28488_443996218101_804558101_5903592_3665419_n_small Spears

Small hailtogeorgia

Killface_small Mr. Sanchez

50questions-accountant_small The Quincy Carter of Accountants