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"Croc vs. Great White" (or, "My Humble Case for Playoffs")

Since a recent thread touched upon the issue of playoffs in college football, I've been thinking about some of the most common arguments I've seen for and against the idea. My apologies if these points have already been raised and debated ad nauseum in Dawg Sports' storied past. If that's the case, feel free to scold me for my inadequate research and direct me to the pertinent thread(s). I personally would love to see a limited playoff, (though the exact number of teams that should participate is a detail that can be worked out by far wiser individuals than I). I don’t claim to be an expert, and if someone here can show me where my reasoning is fallacious or my analysis incomplete, then I will (grudgingly) concede the point(s) and maybe even change my mind. Whether or not that happens, though, I hope to spark a lively debate that will help us all keep our minds off the fact that it is not college football season.

Star-divide

Let me first ask everyone to play pretend for a moment. Pretend that you have just been approached by an executive with Animal Planet, who tells you that a lot of their viewers seem fascinated by the question of which animal would win if a saltwater crocodile and a great white shark were to fight. He tells you that you have been chosen to speak for all television viewers, and he wants to know which of two options you think more people would tune in to see. Option 1: Animal Planet produces a one-shot special where they gather various experts to watch film, run computer simulations, and use all available data to predict which animal would likely be victorious. Option 2: Animal Planet produces a one-shot special where they capture a saltwater croc and a great white, stick them in a tank together, and let them fight to the death.

Now, if your choice would be option 1 because you reason that the result of one fight between two individual animals may not be a good indicator of each species' average abilities (perhaps because one of the animals is inferior or is just having an "off" day), then I respectfully suggest that you immediately contact your doctor and ask him/her to run whatever tests are necessary to confirm that you are not in fact an android in disguise. No human being I know would choose "expert" predictions over the opportunity to actually see a croc and a shark fight (except for animal rights advocates). I hope it goes without saying that option 2 is simply more fun. (Side note: Animal Planet has made some shows along the lines of option 1, and they're boring as hell. Don't waste your time.)

In spite of the fact that "fun" is college football's raison d'etre, it seems to me that this simple concept often gets lost in debates over "accuracy" vs "certainty." T. Kyle King* recently pointed out that whether or not we get the correct #1 and #2 in the National Championship Game is not nearly as important as many people pretend it is. I agree with this whole-heartedly. But with respect to TKK, I think that this is actually a better argument for a playoff than against one. Even if having a playoff means that the best two teams in the country miss out on the NCG due to "off" days against teams we believe are inferior, we fans are consoled by getting to see some of the best teams in the country face off against each other. Assuming I grant that polls are a more "accurate" way of choosing #1 and #2 (and I don't necessarily concede this point), I simply don't think it's important enough to pass up our chance at seeing the college football equivalent of "Croc vs. Great White" every single year.

"But Frost," you say (if you shortened my screen name to "Frost," which you're all welcome to do), "what good does it do to have a playoff when we'll be relying on the very same fallible voters we hate now to pick which teams get into the playoffs? This won't eliminate the whining and complaining at all!" My response to that is that we don't have to let the voters determine everything just because we accept that they must have some role in the system. After all, we'd be outraged at the notion of playing exactly one game each year and letting voters rank the teams from there, even though it would spare us all these messy, confusing "upsets" we see every year. I contend that polls are a necessary evil only, and we should limit their role as much as we practically can. A playoff is a marginally lesser evil than the current system.

Then some of you may say, "Frost, it's simply nonsensical for a team that hasn't won its conference to be crowned 'National Champion.' You can't logically be the best in the country if you're not the best in your conference, and we'll see this all the time with a playoff system." My rebuttal to this is, stop getting so hung up on terminology. It's understandable that everyone acts as if "SEC Champion" means "best in the SEC" or that "National Champion" means "best in the nation." But common sense and an honest evaluation of this year's Alabama team should be sufficient to show that "champion" does not always mean "best of." Being the "champion" only means that a team has fulfilled all of the requirements we've deemed to be necessary for that label (with the usual disclaimers about how teams get into the NCG…just for Tank). We hope that these requirements will lead to the "best" team being the "champion," but it's not guaranteed. If the term "champion" proved to be too confusing or too troubling for fans under a playoff system, then we could call the winning team the "Grand Poobah" for all I care. It's just a term, and regardless of which term we use, there are always going to be situations where we feel that the victor isn't really the "best" team. What matters is that we have a clearly defined system in place that makes a reasonable attempt to put the best teams in the NCG (or GPG) and (most importantly) that gives us as much high quality, competitive football to watch as possible. Besides, I've never in my life heard a fan of another sport say, "Gee, these playoffs are so dreadfully inaccurate at choosing a champion! I really wish [my sport] would switch to a system of polls like college football." I figure there's a reason for that. (Hint: It’s probably the same reason that no one wants Mike Bobo.) If fans of other sports can accept the apparent logical contradictions created by a playoff system, then I have faith that we can too.

Next you complain, "It'll just be the same teams in the playoffs over and over again! Who wants to watch that year after year?" My admittedly glib answer to this is, so what? It's usually the same teams in the SEC year after year, and we keep watching those games, don't we? We also see a lot of the same teams ranked in the top 25 each year right now. The only difference with a playoff would be that we get to see some of those teams play each other, with match ups determined entirely by how good the teams are, not which fan bases travel the best. (Also, if the Dawgs could manage to be in the playoffs over and over again, I’m pretty sure none of you would find that tedious.)

Finally you object, "But a playoff would devalue the regular season! How can we take the regular season games seriously if they're all meaningless in the playoffs?" My response to this is a bit more complicated (and, admittedly, less educated), but here's my best shot anyway. First of all, how many teams would make it into the playoffs? At most, maybe eight? (This is a number I've heard thrown around by wiser individuals than I.) The vast majority of teams aren't going to have their regular seasons devalued in the slightest, though the attempt to get into the playoffs could perhaps add excitement and drama to some of their games. For the few that do get in, we can give byes and/or home field advantage as rewards for those teams that had the best regular seasons, just as the NFL does. Is this perfectly sufficient compensation for a team like, say, this year's LSU? No, but it still gives them some incentive to keep trying to win even after they're pretty sure they're in the playoffs.

"And what of rematches?" you ask. Well, even if I grant that a guaranteed rematch will diminish overall fan interest in either game (and I don't know that that's true), we would probably see relatively few regular season match ups repeated in the playoffs anyway. And even if the teams play near the end of the regular season, how likely are we to know for sure that they'll face each other in the playoffs? Speaking for myself here, if I'm not sure that LSU and Bama will be matched up again in the playoffs, I'm inclined to watch their regular season game with great interest simply because they're two phenomenal teams. (For that matter, even if I know for a fact that they'll be playing again, I'm going to watch because...well, it's still a football game between two phenomenal teams.) Yes, during the second game in a rematch, we'll undoubtedly lose some viewers who are bored with the match up. But there are also fans like myself who are intrigued by the possibility of a revenge win for the previous loser. As we all know, that can happen...with a vengeance. Would the money that might be lost by decreased interest in the regular season really exceed the money that might be gained by the playoff games? I don't know, but I'm inclined to doubt it. And I think it's worth it to find out. We don't have to give up all of our bowl games to have a playoff, and it's not as if we'd be stuck with playoffs forever. If it turns out that it's just not lucrative and/or popular enough, we could always go back. But I really don't think we would.

In short (and for those of you too lazy to have read the whole thing), it comes down to college football being entertainment first and foremost. C'mon, y'all... "Croc vs. Great White!" "Lion vs. Tiger!" "Boise State vs. Someone Really Good!" How do you say no to that?

*TKK, I want you to know that I do not intend to mock or antagonize you by referencing you here. I hope you'll instead see this as a compliment to your pithy characterizations of the relevant issues.

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I want to see Croc v. Great White

On this site, however, I believe we’re in the stark minority.

It boils down to rewarding the most deserving team vs. allowing a few extra legitimate teams a shot, even if they had an extra hiccup here and there along the way.

It still bothers me to the core that in 2002, we went 12-1, won the SEC Championship, had our most dominant team in a long, long time, and didn’t get a shot at the title because there were two undefeated teams ahead of us. I will go to my grave believing teams aren’t necessarily “better” because they have more wins. A 12-1 Houston team isn’t automatically better than a 10-2 South Carolina team. I truly believe our team was “better” than Ohio State’s squad, records be damned. A playoff, even a small plus-one system, would’ve allowed us an opportunity, same with Auburn in 2004. Any sport that has a post-season that allows for an undefeated team to not have an opportunity to play for the title is inherently flawed.

The fear: the 9-7 Giants may beat the 15-1 Packers. Thus, the most deserving team for the entire regular season would not get an opportunity to play in the Super Bowl because of one bad game against an “inferior” Giants team. But so what? As you mention, one will be hard-pressed to find too many Packers fans demanding a BCS-like system that would’ve placed Green Bay and New England in the Super Bowl automatically.

Why? Because Packers fans know their team was body slammed into the field by the Giants. Ignoring that fact would make them whiny. Deal with it. Heck, they won’t say anything, for the Pack did the same thing to other teams last season. They were better than my Falcons, records be damned.

Teams should settle it on the field.

But what about the regular season? Isn’t that settling it on the field? Didn’t UGA have an opportunity to win the 2002 championship by beating, not losing, to the Florida Gators, which was played—wait for it—on the field? Yes, but as evidenced this season by having to make arbitrary choices between teams like Alabama and Oklahoma State, or in 2004 with USC, Oklahoma, and Auburn all being unbeaten, sometimes things are out of a team’s control.

I disagree wholeheartedly the regular season would be diminished by having a playoff. Why? For a playoff would have more, not less, teams vying until the bitter end for a playoff spot. While this may seem unfair for the LSU’s of the world, on a national level, the interest in college football would increase, not decrease. Plus, the LSU’s would still need to keep playing, for seeding, home-field advantage, BYEs, conference titles, etc. would still be up for grabs.

Additionally, the argument the “polls and bowls” and the BCS systems make each regular season game “more important” is ludicrous, for once a team loses a game or two, that team is eliminated. Did UGA fans stop showing up after our 0-2 start, even though a National Championship was out of the question. No. Heck, I went to many games last season when we were 6-7 even though none of them “mattered.” What about the entire 1990’s? None of those games “mattered” for UGA fans, not unless fans attend games for reasons not tied to championships. As indicated above, UGA would have more important games over the course of a given decade that “mattered” with a playoff system than without…and this would be true for every single team. A bad, unlucky loss during the regular season, due potentially to a horrible play call or a key injury, wouldn’t destroy the entire season, as is the case now. Shockley hurt for one game against Florida? So what? The season isn’t over.

The regular season, in my opinion, would matter MORE with a playoff system, not less, especially when viewed from the nation’s perspective, not an individual team’s vantage point.

The only thing the BCS does, and it’s not infallible, is protect the most-deserving team. LSU shouldn’t have to play in a playoff game after going 13-0, winning the SEC, beating the top Big East and Pac-12 squads, and, heck, beating what would be the national champ on the road. To that I say: beat Stanford. If there were a plus-one, using the BCS standings, LSU would’ve had a home game (I would hope…but that’s a different discussion) against Stanford. Beat them and they’re in the title game. LSU would have zero sympathy from me after losing a home game against the Cardinal, just as I couldn’t care less about LSU’s dominant season after they were destroyed by Alabama. Plus, every, single national champion since the BCS started would’ve been included in any playoff. Thus, it’s possible, even likely, given the larger talent gap between teams, unlike the NFL, many of the same teams would’ve won the playoffs. Unlike in 2004, no top team would say they were unfairly left out, for the squabbles would be between teams 4 and 5, 6 and 7, 8 and 9, or wherever the line is draw— teams 1 and 2: safe!

Besides, as many on here have indicated, all that matters, truly, is the SEC Championship. The SEC Championship wouldn’t be affected by a playoff system, and if UGA’s SEC crown is all that mattered from the 2002 season, then nothing would change. To me, while the SEC Championship is huge, I would be lying if the 2002 season wasn’t tainted, even a little, by the way the season shook out. A playoff would’ve given us a shot.

GATA!

by Jman781 on Jan 16, 2012 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

The thing about Giants/Packers is the other system

rewards the team that is hot as opposed to the team that is best. Play that game in October, and the Pack win. Hell, they did win. But because time has passed, the Giants are healthy and the Packers aren’t, and change the outcome. There is an unsatisfying feeling with a “champion” being an unworthy team (see the 07 Giants or this year’s St Louuis Cardinals) simply because they got hot at the right time. Two different ways to skin a cat, neither better than the other. I like how college football tries to reward the best from start to finish, while college hoops (among others) just rewards the team that is best at the finish.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand

But I guess the deciding factor to me is the 2004 scenario involving Auburn. At least every team has a shot in the the playoffs. What else could Auburn have done? Nothing, yet they were shut out of the National Title game. How is that fair?

GATA!

by Jman781 on Jan 16, 2012 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Which is why I'm a fan

Of the plus-one format, for it seems like a fair compromise. The chances of having five unbeatens is highly unlikely. This would prevent the 2004 scenario from happening.

Hypothetically, if USC, UGA, and Oklahoma all go unbeaten next season, who goes? I don’t want a system that uses computers to decide this question.

GATA!

by Jman781 on Jan 16, 2012 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Except it's Auburn, so screw 'em

seriously though, there are gonna be odd years. Maybe a +1 or 4 team playoff works, but the biggest problem with systems is it seems each year would require a different system, be it +1 after the fact, a 4 team playoff, an 8 team playoff, or just a regular 2 teams square off in a final game as currently is. It’s hard to mix and match systems depending on the year. And you have to do so taking in to account the gross amounts of money already on the table, and the pigs that are unwilling to stop feeding at the trough.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I guess instead of focusing on which system is the best, I am focusing on which system allows for “best” worst-case scenario.

The worst case scenario in a playoff: a team that was really, really good all season long loses in said playoffs. (Read: UGA wouldn’t be screwed over if they went unbeaten.)

The worst case scenario with the BCS (or “bowls and polls”): an SEC (or other power conference team) can go unbeaten and not get an opportunity to even vie for the title. (Read: UGA could, and probably would, get screwed, just like Aubie did in ’04)

It’s not even close. No one can debate that a playoff system’s worst-case scenario is worse than the BCS’s worst-case scenario, which, is not improbable, for it’s already happened.

But you’re right, every system is imperfect.

GATA!

by Jman781 on Jan 16, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

AFAIC, the BCS’s worst case scenario is worse than the playoff’s. Is that what you meant to say?

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 16, 2012 8:37 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I meant this

I can’t ever support a system that would potentially leave an unbeaten UGA on the outside looking in.

GATA!

by Jman781 on Jan 16, 2012 9:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed

I hope a plus one system happens in the next couple years. It seems inevitable after the MNC that took place this year.

by andycapps on Jan 17, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Allow me another analogy, if you will.

Let’s say you’re hiring a teacher, and you have one applicant who’s been teaching for the past four years and another who taught for four years back in the 80’s. Their resumes are identical otherwise. Which one do you choose? I’m guessing it’s the former because you want the one whose skills are fresher and whose techniques are the most modern.

Similarly, why shouldn’t we reward the team who’s hot now? Again, college football comes down to entertainment, and we want to put the teams in the Super Bowl or the NCG who are most likely to give us a high quality game. We’re not using a time machine to bring the Packers of 3 months ago to the Super Bowl game. It’s being played now, with the teams we have now. If the Packers suck now, then we don’t want ‘em. Players of other sports accept that in this case, fun trumps “fairness.” I’m sure college football players could get over it too.

And again I ask, if the two systems are so equal, then why is there no sport that currently has playoffs where a significant group of fans are clamoring to get a system of polls instead? I’m sure there are smart fans of other sports, so why does no one seem to think the grass is greener on our side? Why is no one trying to hire away Bobo? These are questions that’ll keep a Dawg fan up at night (as well they should).

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 16, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Because he sucks. I can at least answer that one. )

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 16, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

But you are focusing on one game, the last one

where college football has to focus, and make money, on them all.

And in your teacher analogy, it’s off because it doesn’t acknowledge the fact that both teachers started and ended their careers at the same time since everyone essentially has the same start around Labor Day, end around Thanksgiving schedule. So your teachers both have taught for 12 years, one had their best years at the beginning with solid years since, the other struggled early but has just recently gotten on a roll.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your teacher analogy even better.

If one is now burned out while the other seems to have started a period of being an excellent educator, who in their right mind would hire the burn out?

And I’m focusing on one game because many complaints revolve around this idea that the “most deserving” teams might get left out of the NCG. I’m saying that I don’t want to see the Packers in the Super Bowl just because they used to good. I want to watch a team that IS good. That team is more deserving of having the privilege of entertaining me in the SB. And teams prove they’re STILL good by excelling in the playoffs. As for how much this would devalue the regular season in CFB, see my OP.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Apologies for lack of paragraphs.

I’m posting from my phone, and it seems not to have registered my paragraph break.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

The killer whale, the hippo, the honey badger, Hydrophis Belcheri snake, the polar bear, the kodiak bear, the mongoose, the lion, the tiger

All feel cheated in your system and have a reasonable claim to have been included.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 16, 2012 2:17 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Well done

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not as if every team is happy with the current system.

Sure, there are always going to be teams who feel they got cheated. But your reasoning is that just because we can’t include every single team with a “reasonable claim,” then we should include none of them? That’s harsh, dude. My philosophy is, do right by as many as we possibly can. Minimize the misery.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 16, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

But the argument that a playoff is more fair is not a valid one. A playoff will be just as unfair to some as the BSC is to some as polls were to some.

Happiness lies in defeating your rivals, winning your conference, and winning your bowl. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 16, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

"Unfair" is the cry of whoever feels slighted

there is no true “fair”.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

The problem is that they don’t play football. (natch)

Editor, Dawg Sports.

Go Dawgs!

by vineyarddawg on Jan 16, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

So if I'm understanding you correctly,

your point is just that there would be complaining about who didn’t get into the playoffs. It doesn’t seem to matter much to you whether or not the crybabies are justified (correct me if I’m wrong on that point). Fair enough. Nobody likes whining. So I guess it’s a good thing we have no complaining whatsoever with the current system, huh? I mean, can you imagine if we had a system where Boise State complains pretty much every year and Auburn complains when it goes undefeated one year but doesn’t go to the NCG and where Oklahoma State feels slighted one year because they were passed over for the NCG in favor of a rematch? Oh, wait…

There’s going to be complaining no matter what. The only way to eliminate the complaining is to eliminate college football (though then there’d be complaining about the lack of college football). I see no reason why the complaints would be any worse under a playoff system than they are now. So at worst, the “fairness” issue is a wash (though I still think there’d be slightly less overall complaining because at least the teams that made it to the playoffs can’t complain about not getting their shot). If both systems are equally “fair,” then we come back to the issue that’s been at the heart of my argument all along (and which I tried to emphasize with my title in the OP)—fun.

I have yet to see any arguments for why playoffs wouldn’t be fun. What evidence can anyone here present that fans would hate a playoff system and want to come back to our current one? As evidence that fans would enjoy a playoff system, I present (drumroll please)…pretty much every single other sport in America. (Bit of trivia: Our own CMR supports a playoff too.)

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 17, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions  

My point is someone will complain

be it team #3, 5, 9, 13, 17, 66, etc. And everyone will feel their argument is “justified”.

I’m fine with 4, even 8 teams in a playoff, but where does it go from there? And is the current system really that bad? I’ve long felt closer to playoff than no playoff, but lately, I’ve become nihilist about it. I really don’t care. Each has their flaws and positives. The players love bowls. They have fun. They get the vacation, the gifts, a lot get a good feeling to end the year on a win, where a playoffs limits that # of teams who ends the year winning. All else being equal, I lean to the players since they get screwed so often. And the players enjoy bowls.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 17, 2012 6:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Say we agree that it is smoke and mirrors and it's a mythical championship...

So what?

The perfect woman may or may not exist, but I’d rather find someone that I really like (even with their flaws) and be happy with that person than sit around waiting for perfection and never find it.

Not even from the perspective of someone who won a championship, but just as a generic fan, I would rather have an imperfect system and do your best each year to crown someone as champion as opposed to having nothing.

"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted

by Zoltar on Jan 16, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Zoltar - you should be very happy, because we already have that.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 16, 2012 4:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Nobody wants to take those things away from you.

I’m merely suggesting that for a great many fans, happiness may lie in defeating your rivals, winning your conference, and winning your bowl or playoff games. The “smoke and mirrors” you so cavalierly dismiss can be great entertainment, and I stress yet again that that’s why most (if not all) of us watch college football. God knows I’m not doing it for my health.

I’m curious: did you watch any of the NCG this year (or watched any other NCG, for that matter)? If so, why? Are you a masochist? Or do you perhaps just (gasp!) enjoy a football game between two good teams?

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

If you eliminate bowl tie ins and get great bowls, you can have just as much good entertainment.

The pro’s in most sports have a playoff. I do not find them to be more entertaining. Less so in fact. But great bowl match ups – I find that very entertaining.

And none of this matters until the Rose Bowl changes or cracks, which it isn’t.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 17, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I actually like Gary Danielson's 6 team playoff proposal.

where the top 2 teams get a bye. 6 teams seems kind of like a sweet spot.

"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted

by Zoltar on Jan 16, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

You lost me

at “like” and Gary Danielson in the same sentence. On an unrelated note, the fires of Hades are but cool, tranquil springs when compared to my burning jealousy over your new OC hire.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." -Col. Sanders

by genericusername on Jan 16, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks!

that’s good to know.

"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted

by Zoltar on Jan 16, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well said.

Continuing the NFL playoff comparison, it does provide games like New England/Baltimore, but those are the two best teams right now , as Mr. Sanchez accurately pointed out, but they will not play for the title. On the flip side, the two best teams may not play if the NFL had a Super BCS. I don’t think there’s a right answer, but both would provide wonderful entertainment.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." -Col. Sanders

by genericusername on Jan 16, 2012 5:20 PM EST reply actions  

"right now"

was supposed to be Italicized.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." -Col. Sanders

by genericusername on Jan 16, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's my simple litmus test question I've begun asking on this topic:

How many times have there been more than one team that you felt had a legitimate argument that they were the best team in college football? I’m not asking if someone had an argument that they were #2 (e.g. Oklahoma State over Alabama this year). If you make a mistake and lose a game, that’s your own fault and you’re subject to scoreboard-watching and taking what the system gives you.

I’ll give you 2004. In the whole BCS era, that’s the one that sticks out to me and why I could probably stomach a plus-one. Still, in my opinion, that’s a lot better percentage than how often the NFL playoffs cause the matchup in the Super Bowl to be the wrong one.

Now, let’s take this thing another step if anyone wants to. Can anyone here say with a straight face that they ever saw a season where more than four teams had a legitimate claim at the end of the season that they were the best team in the country?

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 17, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

So we should go back to pre1966

and recognize the Mythical National Champions before the bowl games and just let the athletes enjoy the bowl games and forgot all about this non-sense of BCS, playoffs, and just let the bowls be end-of-the-season exhibitions

I HATE ORANGE, and DGNBs

by Dawg2011 on Jan 17, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 17, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd be fine with that.

Of course I’m fine with what we’ve got now, too. And I’d be fine with when we had bowl tie-ins that allowed us to have the single greatest day of college football ever (January 2, 1984).

My point is that outside of 2004, it has never been necessary to include more than two teams in the national championship.

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 17, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It seems like many of the arguments against a playoff

revolve around the idea that if you can’t get it perfect (in other words if there are no teams that can reasonably complain about being left out), then we just shouldn’t try to have a “national champion” at all. I understand this sentiment because I’m a bit of a perfectionist myself. I’ve been known to resist trying to do something new because I’m not sure I can get it exactly right.

But as TKK has pointed out, we’re not talking about performing heart surgery here. It’s just a game. So why not do the best we reasonably can, whether that be a 4-team playoff, 8-team playoff, etc? Right now, what we have is the bare minimum possible effort while still having a national championship game. I’m simply not of the philosophy that we have to be able to get it perfect to decide to make more of an effort than we currently do (and this is the same point Zoltar was trying to make with his/her “perfect woman” analogy).

Perhaps those of you opposed to a playoff are completely incurious about how top teams from different conferences rank against each other. If so, I consider you lucky. But I think it’s human nature to want to know how teams stack up, and many of us simply find it unsatisfying (not to mention absurd) to rely on voters and computers to tell us these things, especially when we could put together a playoff that will settle at least a few of these questions “on the field.”

(Also, how did my post end up on the front page? Not that I’m complaining, but I thought one had to have a certain number of recs and comments for that.)

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 18, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I promoted it to the front page.

It’s a good discussion, and, obviously, it’s a debate that remains significant and relevant in college football, so I thought it was worth moving “above the fold.” Well done, and thanks!

Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand all of that.

However, I find it unsatisfying that, for instance, the St. Louis Cardinals can limp their way through the regular season, make it in the playoffs solely due to an epic collapse by another team, and win 11 games in October (after already playing 162) and get to claim that they were the “best” team MLB. I don’t want a situation like that in CFB (which, unfortunately, we sort of got with Alabama this year, though it wasn’t near as bad.

I want the margin for error to be razor-thin. I want to leave the 2002 Florida game with my world being destroyed because we choked…not thinking “oh well, all we have to do is beat Auburn and we’ll get our shot”. I want to finally know that my team was absolutely, without a doubt the best team over the course of an entire season when we win a national title in my lifetime, not being happy that we got hot at the right time.

Four teams won’t be too big of a problem in most years, though it still allows for teams to choke and get away with it (e.g. Georgia in 2002). Eight teams would turn the season into something completely different than it already is. Would we have really wanted Alabama and Florida to be trying to figure out whether or not to rest their starters in the 2009 SECCG to keep them from getting hurt before the playoffs? That’s exactly what you’d get with your playoff scenario (and what we constantly see in the NFL).

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 19, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wrote like a whole post about this, and my entire ethicial/moral/religious belief system was questioned.

And I completely agree with you, and don’t doubt your integrity. When and if we win – I want it clean and pure.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 19, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

This times 1 million

Pretty much summarized my long-standing resistance to an inevitable expanded playoff scenario in the one sport that I still really care about. One problem I have with mainstream media (i.e. Dan Wetzel) is that they unequivocally equate being anti-playoff as being pro-BCS. I’m certainly open to improvements to the BCS or even outright abolition of it. Frankly, I’d prefer that the post-season go back to the pre-Bowl Coalition days where January 1st actually meant something and winning your conference was all that mattered. Just because I don’t want a playoff system instituted doesn’t mean I’m a staunch BCS supporter by any means.

I think college football is the one sport that tries to ensure that the most deserving team ends up being in the national title discussion. I’ve said for years that I wish other sports would quit referring to the teams that win their post-season tournaments as “champions” and just refer to them as the “team holding the trophy at the end of the day”. Too many instances of undeserving teams winning the tournament over more deserving teams due to flukes/upsets/injuries are what bugs me. The Miami Marlins and the St. Louis Cardinals have each won the World Series twice as wild card participants. If you weren’t good enough to win your division with a fairly balanced 162 game schedule, why do you deserve to be called the “champion”? Same with the New York Giants in 2007 or UConn in the NCAA tournament last year. None of those six examples could be easily declared the best or even most deserving team, but because they won a small sample size of games at the end of the year, they get to be the “champion”?

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Jan 19, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I suppose we just have to agree to disagree

on which is more unsatisfying—having a “champion” who didn’t have a stellar regular season or allowing voters and computers to tell us who our best 2 teams are (or even having no “national championship” game at all). I personally have no problem accepting the idea that “Super Bowl champions” or “World Series champions” may not be the best teams. They’re the teams that won the games they were supposed to. That’s it. And I think NFL and MLB fans fully understand that. I would still rather have a system like that than one where we rely so heavily on “experts” to essentially tell us what would happen if the games were played. I’m a college football fan because I like to watch games, not because I enjoy having experts tell me the outcomes of hypothetical games.

I like surprises and drama—teams desperate to maintain their greatness, Cinderella teams, and dark horse teams. The playoff upsets that seem to so vex many of you are part of what make the game exciting to me. I like watching Goliath fall and David prevail. I do not like predictions that never get tested. If the playoffs turned out exactly the way we expected every single time, then there’d be no point in playing them. We really could just allow the experts to tell us what’s going to happen. When the Cardinals end up in the World Series, I don’t blame the playoff format for not handing over the title to the team I thought was “best” (if I watched baseball, which I don’t). I blame all those supposedly “better” teams that fell apart in the playoffs even though they were fully aware of the stakes. A team that cracks when the pressure is on isn’t necessarily “deserving” of the title either in my opinion. If your team is really that good, then they can prove it again in the playoffs. And if they can’t hold up, then they deserve to lose out to a Cardinals team that apparently can. As I mentioned in another thread, I believe that growth is commendable and regression is not. A team should be getting better over the course of the season, not worse.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 19, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

"won the games they were supposed to."

For me, that is “absolutely all of the games, or at least absolutely as many as possible.”

For you, that is “enough to make the postseason + the postseason games.”

College football has the best regular season of any sport anywhere. Every game could be the decisive game, and nobody can ever afford a loss. The number of teams is so large and the number of games is so small that the pressure is always on.

[I hold this position even in light of this year’s rematch. That Bama boy crying on his girlfriend’s shoulder didn’t think a rematch could happen. The fact that the crazy football gods let Bama back into the championship game was not forseeable at the time, and takes none of the drama out of that first matchup to me.]

by first and thom on Jan 19, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

"Every game could be the decisive game, and nobody can ever afford a loss. "

but reality never plays this out. Teams can often afford a loss, almost every year. Once, a team was able to still win a title in spite of a pair of late season losses. Teams can not only afford a loss in several instances, but afford a loss head to head with the very team in an argument for that final spot (such as Miami/FSU in 2000, the roundabout of losses in the Big 12 trio of 2008). And while every game could be decisive, there is almost as much a chance if not more so that games are absolutely meaningless (Auburn in 2004, the undefeated runs by TCU, Boise, Utah, etc, this November’s first LSU/Bama contest), among other examples).

So that line, while seems great in theory, but never plays out like that in reality. Kind of like communism. And yes, I just called college football’s system communist.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought you were a nazi?

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 20, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Even if we grant that "it never plays out" in restrospect (and I won't go that far)...

…that wasn’t my point. Instead, the point is that the prospective uncertainty puts incredible pressure on every regular season game. Some years, two lossess isn’t too many. Some years, one loss is too much. Heck, sometimes even undefeated won’t get you there.

All of that uncertainty lends drama to the season. Unfortuneately, that uncertainty cannot be speedily resolved at the end of the season, so there is often uncertainty about the crowned champion. If that is the price we pay, I’ll pay it happily.

by first and thom on Jan 20, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I suppose so.
I personally have no problem accepting the idea that "Super Bowl champions" or "World Series champions" may not be the best teams. They’re the teams that won the games they were supposed to. That’s it. And I think NFL and MLB fans fully understand that.

I’m a huge MLB fan (I’ll by flying up to NYC for the day for the Braves’ opener this year. I have a serious problem with the Wild Card and an even bigger problem with this year’s expansion. I was disappointed when the Braves choked away the WC this year, but not as much as I was when they started losing and let the Phillies run away with the division to begin with. Not every NFL and MLB fan is happy that their regular seasons get marginalized so much.

I’m a college football fan because I like to watch games, not because I enjoy having experts tell me the outcomes of hypothetical games.

I probably wouldn’t watch near as many games in the regular season with an expanded playoff because they wouldn’t matter near as much. For instance, the 2007 West Virginia-Pitt game was one of the most incredible upsets I’ve ever seen. I wouldn’t have watched one minute of it with a playoff because West Virginia had already clinched the Big East and all that game might have done is change their seeding a little. Think back to all the greatest games you’ve seen in the past in college football and think how much less they would mean with a playoff.

I like surprises and drama—teams desperate to maintain their greatness, Cinderella teams, and dark horse teams. The playoff upsets that seem to so vex many of you are part of what make the game exciting to me. I like watching Goliath fall and David prevail.

I know. Lots of people do. The turning point for me on this stuff was seeing a bunch of Nebraskans mindlessly rooting for Fresno State in the 2008 CWS simply because they sucked more than Georgia. Seriously, most of those people had probably never even been to California nor even given Fresno State University the time of day, but because they weren’t supposed to win, they decided to root against Georgia. It was in those three days that I truly realized how stupid the “I root for the underdog” mantra really is.

I do not like predictions that never get tested. If the playoffs turned out exactly the way we expected every single time, then there’d be no point in playing them. We really could just allow the experts to tell us what’s going to happen.

But we don’t have to do that. That’s what the regular season is for. You act as if those games don’t ever happen and the only way to see how good a team is would be through a tournament. That isn’t the case at all. In all but one year under the BCS, we’ve had two or less teams who clearly had a legitimate case that they were the best team out there. In baseball, we have 162 games to see who the best team really is.

What you’re advocating for is that instead of forcing a team to be great for a full season, you only expect them to be decent for the regular season and great for a few rounds of the playoffs. I guess that’s great if you’re a fan of randomness for the sake of randomness, but if you’re trying to find out who is the best team out there, using a larger sample size is the best way to go about it.

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 19, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree to disagree some more.
That’s what the regular season is for. You act as if those games don’t ever happen and the only way to see how good a team is would be through a tournament.

The regular season sees us playing other teams in our conference, a couple of cupcake games, Georgia Tech, and maybe one other really interesting team (like Boise State) if we’re lucky. I’d like to see a little more diversity than that. Yes, playoffs this year would have included both LSU and Bama, but we also would have seen how Okie State stacks up, for instance. You may be confident that they’d get stomped by LSU or Bama, but as you’re all fond of pointing out, upsets happen. We SEC fans know full well that not all conferences are created equal, so a team’s record can be deceiving. But we rely heavily on polls to tell us just how much disparity there is. I personally would like to rely on those polls a little less.

What you’re advocating for is that instead of forcing a team to be great for a full season, you only expect them to be decent for the regular season and great for a few rounds of the playoffs.

Being in the top 4-8 in the country is “decent” to you? Wow. So how would you characterize the Dawgs this year? Deadful? Yes, I’m ok with a team that can make it to playoffs potentially winning the NCG. Then again, I also think that given how small college football’s playoff is likely to be, a team would have to be a little better than just “decent” to get there. They’re going to have to excel in their regular seasons (again, by my apparently lax standards). The smaller the playoff, the easier it’ll be for just one loss to knock a team out of playoff contention.

Seriously, most of those people had probably never even been to California nor even given Fresno State University the time of day, but because they weren’t supposed to win, they decided to root against Georgia.

I’m sure none of them were shedding any tears over the outcome either way, but what’s wrong with picking a team to root for even when you don’t have a dawg in the race? I don’t know or care a flip about the NFL, so if I’m stuck watching a game with my dad, I often root for the team with the coolest uniforms (or sometimes I go with the underdog or a team with a prominent UGA grad, like Detroit…but usually uniforms). It makes watching a game I don’t care about a little more interesting. Feel free to scold me.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 19, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re:
Yes, playoffs this year would have included both LSU and Bama, but we also would have seen how Okie State stacks up, for instance. You may be confident that they’d get stomped by LSU or Bama, but as you’re all fond of pointing out, upsets happen. We SEC fans know full well that not all conferences are created equal, so a team’s record can be deceiving. But we rely heavily on polls to tell us just how much disparity there is. I personally would like to rely on those polls a little less.

LSU beat the Rose Bowl/Pac-10 champ, the Orange Bowl/Big East champ, and the national champ during the regular season. I don’t think we needed to rely on polls to tell us that LSU was really, really good. It isn’t as if these sort of games don’t ever happen already. Personally, I still think Oklahoma State should have played LSU for the national title, but they went and lost to Iowa State so ultimately they were at the mercy of the system. Just as it was with USC when they lost to Cal earlier this decade, if you lose to a bad team you really don’t have any excuses.

Being in the top 4-8 in the country is "decent" to you?

Possibly. The #3-4 teams are often very good, but they also usually have flaws when teams 1 and 2 often don’t. Beyond #4, it often gets dicey. For instance, Kansas State was the #8 team in the BCS before the bowls…how would you characterize them? We’d probably end up with auto-bids, so how would you characterize 11-3 Wisconsin (BCS #10), 10-4 Clemson (BCS #15) and 10-3 West Virginia (BCS #23)? Were any of those great teams that had an honest argument that they were the best team in the country?

So how would you characterize the Dawgs this year? Deadful?

Not at all. I’d call them pretty good with some serious flaws (OL and special teams).

I think my standards of greatness are just a little higher, that’s all. Greatness for me is very close to perfection.

I’m sure none of them were shedding any tears over the outcome either way, but what’s wrong with picking a team to root for even when you don’t have a dawg in the race? I don’t know or care a flip about the NFL, so if I’m stuck watching a game with my dad, I often root for the team with the coolest uniforms (or sometimes I go with the underdog or a team with a prominent UGA grad, like Detroit…but usually uniforms). It makes watching a game I don’t care about a little more interesting. Feel free to scold me.

I understand. Lots of people approach sports that way. Other people gamble to make them interesting. That’s not how I do it, though. The way I enjoy sports if I don’t have a rooting interest is to just enjoy the competition. If Oregon State and Iowa are playing in a football game, I’m just watching to see if the game is interesting and possibly see some exceptional individual or coaching performances. I don’t need to fabricate some sort of feeling of satisfaction over a team that won’t matter to me one bit once I turn the television off.

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 20, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

We did need polls to tell us Alabama was really, really good...

what with that vaunted schedule of North Texas, Georgia Southern, Ole Miss, Miss St, a depleted Auburn, among others. Their schedule was awful this year, aside from the lone loss to LSU, and a game against a maybe good, maybe not Arkansas (who had similar schedule issues).

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

They also soundly beat a Penn State team...

that very well could have won the Big Ten if not for molesty things.

Their schedule certainly didn’t make them look impressive compared to LSU, but it also wasn’t that difficult to tell that they were very good. If they hadn’t already lost to LSU, I probably would have picked them as team #2 over Oklahoma State because their one loss was so much less bad and their good wins were just about equal.

Still, if the polls had told us that Alabama wasn’t one of the two best teams going in to the bowls, that would have been perfectly fine with me, even in hindsight. The regular season should have consequences.

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 20, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Coulda, woulda, shoulda

disagree about this Penn St team. They weren’t that good, and that game alone does nothing to disuade me from the fact that we required polls to tell us that Bama was better than Oklahoma St. Because resumes on the field sure didn’t make for much of a difference after the season.

And it’s this line that some people are OK with using in determining who plays for a title, and some aren’t…

because their one loss was so much less bad and their good wins were just about equal

The 100% purely and solely subjective nature that goes in to determing who is “good”, who is “great”, and who is “better” than who, is something some people have a bigger problem with than others.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Without writing a book - let me throw in a few talking points:

- Playoffs don’t guarantee better games. They may be good games, but they don’t guarantee them. The only thing playoffs guarantee is more games.

- Fans and the schools are not the top benefactors of playoffs. You know who wants a playoff the most? Your bookie. Followed by ESPN. Because gambling and tv networks are the ones that gain the most.

- The more regular season games matter, the more they matter. Who would have paid as much attention this year to Baylor with a playoff system? That Baylor – Oklahoma game was absolutely great. With a playoff, Ok St would already be in and that game would have mattered less, which leads too..

- Without a playoff, even if your year stinks, you can still beat a rival, and maybe still get in a bowl. Look at all the empty baseball seats by mid season when people know their team is done. And it’s not even halfway over yet. Even if UGA is having a bad year, there is still a chance to beat Auburn and Tech -and the seats will still be packed for it. If you already know you are done, the “give a damn” factor drops. This is just human nature. Some will argue the rivalries will still be just as big, I disagree. Those last two weeks of football will be the dullest because most of the playoff teams will already be known.

- If bowls got to pick freely their own match ups – they would pick good ones, because they know a good game means more revenue.

- There will be a Cinderella – but rarely. Very rarely. Way, way rarely. Think like every 2 decades, maybe. A playoff system would pretty much take you to the same 20-30 schools every year. In fact, you can count on Bama, USC on a very, very regular basis. Wow, that sounds like fun.

- Winning a NC is nice, but really, in the grand scheme of life, it doesnt matter. I am just as disappointed the UGA home schedule sucks as I am about a NC. It’s sad folks (especially the students) won’t get hardly any great home games. In the end, watching great players in great games and having some good fun at home is what you can take with you.

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 19, 2012 7:50 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I do agree with you here:
If bowls got to pick freely their own match ups – they would pick good ones, because they know a good game means more revenue.

If that were changed, I would indeed be very happy.

Playoffs don’t guarantee better games. They may be good games, but they don’t guarantee them. The only thing playoffs guarantee is more games.

We might not get more great games from a playoff system. But we definitely won’t get more great games without one. Besides, generally speaking, “more football” = “good” for me.

Some will argue the rivalries will still be just as big, I disagree. Those last two weeks of football will be the dullest because most of the playoff teams will already be known.

Would an in-conference rivalry be hurt by playoffs? Maybe, maybe not. It can cut both ways. For teams that aren’t yet sure they’ll get in, it can really heighten the excitement for a game, especially a rivalry. Wouldn’t you love to keep Auburn out of the playoffs in one of our down years? I would. Furthermore, an out of conference rival like Tech already doesn’t help or hurt us for the SECCG. In fact, I seem to recall some derision on this site when the announcers suggested we might sit some starters because we already knew we were in the SECCG. Didn’t happen. We hate them just because, and I don’t see that changing. One team trying to keep the other out of the playoffs could only help.

I addressed the “it’ll be the same teams over and over again” point in the OP. I don’t expect the Cinderella to be Coastal Carolina or anything. But I would consider Boise State or TCU to be potential Cinderellas, for example.

Betting on college football is for people who find the outcomes of squirrel races contested upon miniature minefields entirely too predictable. ~MaconDawg

by MidnightFrost1701 on Jan 19, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You missed half my points. )

Editor, "Dawgsports"

"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker

by chuckdawg on Jan 20, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree on the good games = more revenue for bowls

they’ll do as they always have, which is pick the largest fan bases, which travel best, and will sell tickets/hotel rooms. They don’t care as much about the product on the field as much as the products sold to vacationing, traveling fans.

Other than that, I agree with much of what you wrote, especially that fans, schools, and the student-athletes (let’s not forget about them) don’t benefit from a playoff. I’d say players benefit most in the bowl system with the timing between semesters, the fun events and gifts, the fewer games, less stress, and significantly increased chance of ending the season positively with a win, vs a playoff where only one team is celebrating when all is said and done.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

For the playoff supporters

I know nobody’s said it here, but like I mentioned earlier – I cannot stand when the likes of Dan Wetzel and to a more recently increasing extent, Matt Hinton of Dr. Saturday, have the gall to tell people like me that aren’t jumping over buildings in support of a playoff that we are stupid for not seeing the world like they do.

You didn’t need to write a book about killing the BCS to inform me of what I already know – the BCS and bowls in general exist to allow a few rich cronies of the universities to work a few weeks a year while wearing fancy sports coats and then rip off the schools by forcing them to buy an allotment of tickets, therefore the only answer to this inequity is a playoff – not eliminating bowl games or anything more simple like that.

I wish more playoff supporters would just come out like MidnightFrost did and say “I like brackets/Cinderallas/upsets”. I would respect their position, as I do Midnight Frost’s, a lot more if they would take that approach than try to justify why I should come to their line of thinking by belittling my position as one that is stuck in the past or whatever other useless put-downs they’ve come up with.

All the points FisheriesDawg have made above are reasons why I am unequivocally opposed to a playoff. However, the primary reason I am against one is I don’t want to risk losing what makes college football so great by opening the Pandora’s box to an extended playoff by allowing the same idiots that ruined the college basketball regular season by creating a tournament that includes every team with a pulse in the country to have control over a playoff in the sport that has byfar the best regular season. I don’t trust those idiots for one second to get this right and we will inevitably one day have a 64 team college football playoff. Every sport in American history that has ever had a playoff has expanded the size of the field for the sole purpose of generating more $$‘s – I don’t know why we would expect college football to be any different.

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Jan 20, 2012 9:17 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Good response
I wish more playoff supporters would just come out like MidnightFrost did and say "I like brackets/Cinderallas/upsets". I would respect their position, as I do Midnight Frost’s, a lot more if they would take that approach than try to justify why I should come to their line of thinking by belittling my position as one that is stuck in the past or whatever other useless put-downs they’ve come up with.

Seconded. Lots of people like that sort of thing. It is why March is such a popular month for college basketball and November-February aren’t.

I think it is bad for the sport overall, but if that’s what you’re interested in as a sports fan more power to you.

by FisheriesDawg on Jan 20, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, how nice it'll be when as a Georgia men's hoops fan...

I know March is on the way, and it’s not because that’s when the season ends and baseball spring training begins.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 20, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Now I haz a sad

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Jan 20, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

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