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The Georgia Bulldogs' Nike Pro Combat Uniforms: A Dispassionate Assessment After Several Hours Have Passed

The topic du jour here at Dawg Sports, obviously, has been the unveiling of the Nike Pro Combat uniforms the Georgia Bulldogs will be wearing for their season opener against the Boise St. Broncos two weeks hence. This has inspired some strong reactions, to say the least, and, if the poll voting is any indication, public opinion is very much divided upon the question.

The comment threads have included some depictions of the new uniforms, and some links to depictions of those uniforms. In addition to those photographs already posted here on the front page, I also received three more noteworthy depictions, two of which came in the form of an e-mail from Nike.

The communication from the uniform supplier described the new look as "a design that pays tribute to the perfection of the past, including their famed 1980 National Championship season, by adding hints of silver to their red and black uniform in unique and unexpected ways," as well as "honor[ing] the old Georgian traditions" by reintroducing "their iconic 1960's era silver helmets." The e-mail from Nike was accompanied by these photos:

Star-divide

The other shot of the new unis came to me by way of my cousin, who posts here under the user name "Keith Richards" (not his real name, for the record). He was at Picture Day today, and he sent me the following photograph:

As noted above, opinion is divided, and, frankly, I am of two minds myself. Here, after a day’s reflection, are my thoughts on the togs the ‘Dawgs will be wearing in the Dome on September 3:

  • In principle, I love the idea of the Bulldogs wearing silver helmets, but, if we were going to go that route, we should’ve gone straight throwback on the headgear, donning a solid silver helmet with a block red "G." From the side, this helmet looks good, but the ludicrously broad red stripe spilling over onto the facemask ruins the effect.
  • I like the silver accents on the black numbers, but the numerals are too skinny. As evidenced by the "Tron" numbers on the Virginia Tech Hokies’ Pro Combat uniforms in last year’s season opener, Nike just doesn’t know how to do numbers right.
  • The black "V" with the oval "G" at the neck is a neat effect. The black sleeves? Not so much.
  • The original reports about the gloves were accurate; they are cool. My eight-year-old has already asked me where he can get a pair.
  • Nike’s reference to 1980 appears badly misplaced, in light of the pants on this uniform. The red britches ceased to be a regular part of the Georgia uniform after the opening outing of that epic autumn, and, while they were around, they (a) had a broad white stripe down the pant leg, and (b) were worn with a white jersey as part of the road uniform. More to the point, if there is one uniform convention for which the 1980 season is remembered, it is for the restoration of the traditional silver britches following a 16-year absence.
  • This brings us to the fundamental problem with this uniform; namely, the fact that monochromatic uniforms look bad on everyone. Whether it’s the Kentucky Wildcats wearing blue jerseys with blue pants, the Tennessee Volunteers wearing orange jerseys with orange pants, or the Utah Utes wearing red jerseys with red pants, it looks bad. It’s not a question of which color is being overdone; the problem is that it’s being overdone. I didn’t think "too much red" was an actual condition that was capable of occurring in the universe, but this uniform is proof that it is possible to have too much of a good thing.
  • That said, I am encouraged by the fact that, in the picture taken by my cousin of the football uniform in its natural habitat (Sanford Stadium), this get-up looks like significantly less of an abomination than it does in the Nike special effects studio. Hopefully, it’ll look better on the field than it does in a staged shoot.

At the end of the day, of course, the whole goal of the "Nike Pro Combat" look is to get people talking, and this uniform certainly has done that. Do I like it? No; but I have a Knowshon Rockwell Moreno blackout jersey hanging in my closet, and I didn’t mind that departure from longstanding practice, largely because the debut of those jerseys coincided with a thrilling throttling of the Bulldogs’ oldest rivals. I don’t want to see the Red and More Red Black wear these uniforms ever again, but, if the Bulldogs bludgeon the Broncos bloody on September 3, we will remember fondly the one time the Athenians donned these togs, even if we do not miss the uniforms themselves.

Go ‘Dawgs!

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good even headed take

And it makes me shake my head that Nike associates 1980 with red pants rather than with silver as you said. It would’ve been better had they not brought that up.

by Mark Mandingo on Aug 20, 2011 8:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

My guess would be that Nike figured any reference to 1980 would win approval in Bulldog Nation.

We just happen to know our history well enough to know when such an allusion is inapt.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, Nike's PR spin is just that, spin...

and load of complete bullhockey.

Your take though, is a pretty much right on the mark imo.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 20, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think you are right about the monochrome look

and my super quick photoshop tinkering to add silver pants seems to bear the theory out.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Aug 20, 2011 8:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

here's with the undershirt in silver as well

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Aug 20, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's better but it still needs a dash of white in there somewhere

like the current white stripe on the helmet also splitting the broad red band on this one, and a slim red/black/white combination on the side of the leg. Otherwise, it will ALWAYS look better when the helmets and pants match with the shirt contrasting.

by rbubp on Aug 20, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

All right, new rule:

No one in the SEC is allowed to agree to a Nike Pro Combat uniform until kleph has given it the once-over first.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

We need a "Hell Rec" button . . .

. . . for when “Rec” just doesn’t cover it.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

that needs to be

an SBNation improvement right there :)

I can bake like a demon.

by podunkdawg on Aug 21, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll e-mail technical support . . .

. . . and ask them to add it to the wish list for the next upgrade! :)

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kleph, you're on fire today, bro.

Is it too late to change the Pro Combat uni’s? ‘Cause those silver britches make all the difference in the world. I would likely have been commending Nike on not screwing things up too badly if this was the first image we’d seen today. (I mean, I still wouldn’t have liked the blood stripe on the helmet, but other than that we would have been good.)

by vineyarddawg on Aug 20, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only problem i can see with the silver pants

is you are messing with the dooley/hershel mojo and that’s pretty sacred ground to be throwing into a one-off gimmick wardrobe. but since nike has never had any qualms at hacking at anyone’s sacred cows (seriously, houndstooth numbers? bryant wore plaid fedoras) i don’t see why they didn’t consider it.

but my only real regret about their stab at the bama unis is that they didn’t grow a pair and go back to the outfit bear bryant wore on the field.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Aug 20, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, wow.

That’s almost nice. Now make the helmet solid silver, and we’ve really got something. [small voice]Or maybe even black helmets…[/small voice] (Too soon?)

by MidnightFrost1701 on Aug 20, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alas

The pic doesn’t show up for me at work. I’ll have to check it out later. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my suggestion? I won’t hold it against you if it’s the latter. The PTSD still flares up for me sometimes too…

by MidnightFrost1701 on Aug 20, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's one of my stock photos...

… of a bulldog making a face with the words “I am not amused.”

No offense or anything… I just don’t ever want to see black helmets again. :-)

by vineyarddawg on Aug 20, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

No offense taken

I’m not the superstitious type, so it doesn’t much matter to me personally if we lost horribly to our most hated foe in black helmets. I just liked the look of them. But I know that plenty of players may have some subconscious superstitions (how else to explain our record against UF the last 20 years?). If black helmets are likely to be any kind of impediment to the boys who have to actually play the game, then this fan is happy to never see them again.

by MidnightFrost1701 on Aug 20, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 20, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I saw the uniform yesterday...

…I thought exactly the same thing. These would be kinda awesome if they had made the pants silver britches. This picture proves that. Nice job!

That said, I really don’t have a problem with the uniform. I also don’t understand people getting so bent out of shape about them. They’re not wearing them between the hedges, and they are only for 1 game. I think its a sad state of affairs that CMR (and a couple of the players) felt the need to defend them yesterday to an AJC (vomit) reporter. As excited as the players were about them they must feel like somebody pissed all over their new toy at this point. Once we bet the living snot out of the blue ponies these may become iconic…

by Gregdog on Aug 21, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

y'know, I kind of like my true AM's black on black monochrome scheme

And yes, we had winged helmets before Michigan

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 21, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

didn't the Princeton coach

come up with that, then took it with him to Michigan? Or am I making that up.

by Mark Mandingo on Aug 22, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's exactly how it happened.

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 22, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice job kleph

of all the crap that bama fans get (and rightly so….sometimes) for living in the past, the impenetrable wall of our jerseys remaining simple is one of its most glorious benefits. I hate the jerseys, but I hope y’all destroy Boise (and SC and AU for that matter), but seriously, kill Boise

when the day is done, I was born a bad man's son...

by JunctionCrimson on Aug 20, 2011 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

i think the uniform issue is one where our interests intersect

i had a very detailed talk about this with kyle last year. the bama unis changed quite a bit over the early years of the program but settled into the outfits we know and recognize today in the early 1960s. just about the time one paul w. bryant arrived and brought in a 25-year tenure of almost uninterrupted success. keeping the uniforms like that is a visual reminder for the players and the fans of the legacy that must be lived up to every week in the fall.

for georgia, it’s similar. kyle explained how the alums pushed dooley for years for the silver pants and he finally conceded the year the bulldogs burst through and went all the way. suddenly, the pants mean a hell of a lot more than a dynamic third color to the scheme but are a very real visual connection to an era when the team was able to realize all of its potential and become something transcendent.

typically, uniforms emerge due to practical reasons. bama and penn state’s old skool look came from an era you just didn’t have the ability to print a pic of a mascot and slap it on the side. the numbers on the side we use exclusively today were pretty much par for the course in the mid-1960s. bama’s white helmets were due to night games so the quarterbacks could see the receivers better. the lights are much better today and we don’t want to go back to the perkins years when we last wore them.

in the end, for programs that have the age and traditions of alabama and georgia, messing with the uniform is touching on things far more important than fashion. while nike might understand the idea of what looks sharp to the hip crowd, they might not understand the importance many have for timeless designs and classic styling.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Aug 20, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Very well said.

I often find it strange that I identify myself quite readily as liberal or progressive in many matters, but when it comes to college sports, I value tradition. It’s what sets college sports apart: our rivalries, rituals, and symbols are iconic. Iconic. Almost (if not) idolatrous. And I’m cool with that.

So I’m not surprised or disappointed in the outrage expressed by some in response to these uniforms. I just hope it’s a burst that doesn’t last too long, because I think there are more worthwhile things over which to obsess. Personal preference, perhaps.

I would be up in arms if Nike and UGA announced that we were discontinuing the silver britches permanently or if Sanford renovations meant permanent removal of the hedges or ringing the chapel bell was off-limits. I mourn the loss of the railroad tracks. I silently lament the distraction of that godawful scoreboard ribbon at the bottom of the upper deck when I’m trying to watch the field of play.

But there are things over which I personally have no control. I’m pretty sure the hedges will be there always, and I can take a uniform affront for one game.

by NCT on Aug 21, 2011 12:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Silver pants make a BIG improvement

There are several blogs about athletic attire. One refers to the monochrome look as a unitard. The red on red gets me the most, along with no stripes on the pants.

Why is it that an Alabama supporter can design a better uniform that Nike in minutes?

The numerals are very bad. Only a few teams can get away from the “collegiate font” successfully (the Chicago Bears are an example).

From the side, I must admit the helmet looks pretty good, but they lose me with the five inch stripe down the middle. Innovation for innovation’s sake. Our headgear for the game against Boise looks more like a motorcycle helmet than a football helmet.

by Vinings Dog on Aug 20, 2011 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Why is it that an Alabama supporter can design a better uniform than Nike in minutes?

That’s an awesome line. And I think I have the answer: they actually give a damn.

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 20, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

That . . .

. . . is so true!

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nike is trying to make crap the players like

that’s their target audience..and you’ve probably heard that the players like that crap.

by rbubp on Aug 20, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe you have hit the nail on the head.

If it gets the players fired up, I can live with it, but I still don’t like it . . . and I don’t trust uniform gimmicks when what is needed is blocking and tackling, though I concede the two can coexist, as I hope they will in this instance.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that's what gets the players fired up

we have motivation issues on a grand scale.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, . . .

. . . but I’m not a 19-year-old college athlete who’s coming off of a month of fall camp in the August Georgia heat, either. Dan McGugin once fired up his Vanderbilt players for a game against Michigan by reminding them that the Wolverines’ grandfathers had shot at the Commodores’ grandfathers during the War . . . without mentioning that Coach McGugin was himself of Union, rather than Confederate, stock. Whatever works.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

And if I remember right...

coming off that fall camp is motivation in and of itself. it feels good to hit someone other than those same ugly, fat, stinking jerks you’ve been hitting day after day after day.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not arguing with you, . . .

. . . but, again, we’re not 19-year-old athletes. Our motivations may be different from theirs, and, at this point, their motivations matter a lot more than yours and mine.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still fall back on the argument for the bama blackout, the grambling cocktail party, etc

if your primary motivation is “Hey, we’re wearing cool jerseys”, you’ve got huge problems and will be losing that game. I will never think of jerseys as a motivating factor. In the sense of the original blackout, it certainly helped amp up the environment, but the motivation it wasn’t. Their motivation was beating a huge rival in Auburn, winning a very important SEC game, and continuing the run of excellence that was the second half of the 2007 season towards.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

THIS!!!!

Success is never final. --Winston Churchill

by Inteljumper on Aug 21, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

But who said these uniforms were for motivation?

There have been lots of mentions of players being excited about them, but I don’t recall motivation being mentioned.

Will

by wqueenjr on Aug 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree with wqueenjr; it isn't like the coaches or the players . . .

. . . made this decision. Nike made this decision, so any motivation is an ancillary (and salutary) side effect of the purely commercial rationale behind this one-time change.

I also think you’re creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Georgia wears red pants for the 1985 Clemson game, black pants for the 1998 Outback Bowl, or black jerseys for the 2007 Auburn game and wins, well, the clothing “helped amp up the environment,” but the motivation was the significance of the game, yet, if Georgia wears black pants for the 1998 Florida game, black jerseys for the 2008 Alabama game, or black helmets and black pants for the 2009 Florida game and loses, well, then it was fake juice that distracted the team.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 98 Outback Bowl was nothing special...

I’m too young to know much about 85 Clemson. I’m not including jerseys for any of them. Just 07 Auburn, even you have to admit it was a situation unlike any other, and a large part of that was the unreal energy with the team and throughout Stanford.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fine, and I understand your point.

I would state it differently, though. I am fine with using special uniforms as a reward for achievements already attained, but not as a cheap form of motivation for aspirations not yet met. I am fine with the uses of the black jerseys in 2007 as rewards for beating Florida and earning a Sugar Bowl bid, but not with the uses of special uniforms as motivational ploys against Alabama in 2008 and against Florida in 2009.

That said, there are instances in which it has worked (or, at least, not served as a distraction). The Outback Bowl at the end of the 1997 season was, in fact, very special; the Bulldogs—-who had gone 5-6 in 1993, 6-4-1 in 1994, 6-6 in 1995, and 5-6 in 1996—-were attempting to close out a 9-2 regular season with a New Year’s Day bowl win. It was a big deal, they broke out the black pants for the first time in modern history, and they torched a Wisconsin team that was expected to give them a close game.

In 1985, Vince Dooley took the Bulldogs to Clemson, where Georgia had not won since 1976, and, when word got out that Danny Ford intended to break out the orange pants (which had been very good luck for the Tigers since the final game of the 1980 season), Coach Dooley sent the equipment manager back to Athens the night before the game to unpack the red pants. After Georgia won in Death Valley, Coach Dooley denied believing that the red pants made any difference, but Dan Magill later said he thought Coach Dooley believed in the red britches more than he let on.

It still all comes down to blocking and tackling, but, if the players are motivated to play harder by ploys those of us in the stands find silly, I’m not going to second-guess it just because I find it juvenile. At the end of the day, the measure of any motivational ploy is whether it worked.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we agree in fulll

And I remember thinking we were gonna kill that Wisconsin team. They were massive, but we’d faced a similarly massive line in Mississippi St earlier that year, and worked ‘em. I had a feeling we’d do similar against a similar massive but slow line. Bruce Adrine, I think Mallard, and a couple other future fringe NFL dl held Ron Dayne in check. The epitome of speed beats size that has been shown in numerous SEC/Big 10 bowls, and as I’ve been told, were the primary reason early 80s Nebraska could never get through a Miami or FSU team in the bowls.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly, you were right on that one.

That definitely was the dichotomy: slow but huge versus small but speedy, and, in that case, as in many others, quicker beat bigger, and did so convincingly. I don’t recall what the point spread for that game was, but, generally, I believe it was considered somewhat surprising that Georgia won as big as the Bulldogs did.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

the players are the age group that likes Bieber and Twilight...

so just how much value does their like need to have?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

In their defense, . . .

. . . they are the ones playing the game, so a little deference to their perspective might not be entirely out of line!

I agree, though, that part of our problem has been letting the kinder run the kindergarten . . . though that is part of Nike’s problem, too.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth (and it is worth a lot, considering the source), . . .

. . . here is Dr. Saturday’s take on the new uniforms.

I think the thing that troubles me the most is the helmet, because there’s so much to like about the silver helmet, but it’s fubar’d by the breadth of the red stripe. A narrow red stripe might’ve worked, but the wide red stripe running back to front and over the facemask leaves it looking like a perfectly acceptable silver helmet accidentally ended up being sprayed with a broad line of mismatched and misplaced paint like a black cat in a Looney Tunes cartoon who was about to be mistaken for a female skunk by Pepe Le Pew.

I dislike the helmet for the same reason I disliked “Seven” and “Bulworth”: I can excuse mediocrity more readily than near-greatness that flinched and, falling just short, plummeted to earth from a great height after attaining much.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 10:14 PM EDT reply actions  

For lumping Se7en into that category...

… I believe we’re about to exchange words, my good man.

by vineyarddawg on Aug 20, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be happy to go into that with you.

Basically, the movie wimped out by not having Brad Pitt die. The survival of Pitt’s character prevented the story arc from having closure and rendered Morgan Freeman’s closing line hollow to the point of being darned near meaningless. Had Brad Pitt died, the way the story dictated that he should have, I’d list “Seven” as probably one of my ten favorite films of all time, but the filmmakers flinched, and that wrecked the movie for me.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

P.S.:

It is my understanding (though I cannot say I know this for certain) that the original ending had Pitt die, but test audiences didn’t like it, so they changed the ending. The whole bit about there being two bodies in the field makes no sense if Pitt isn’t one of them, of course, but that’s just another instance of Hollywood imposing a lowest-common-denominator ending on something that otherwise was wildly original and thought-provoking; basically, Hollywood did to the end of “Seven” what it did to the filmmaker’s vision in the Julia-Roberts-being-rescued-from-the-gas-chamber scene in “The Player.”

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

lets get back on topic of how this Uni sucks. )

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 20, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry.

I thought we were multitasking! :)

By the way, speaking of non-football-related comment threads, I went and got takeout barbecue from O.B.’s this evening. After the Free Form Friday discussion, I needed some dadgum barbecue!

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever, tankertoad.

Kyle, this right here is the message of one of my favorite films of all time, Adaptation. I primarily love that movie for its deep and layered exploration of the meaning of “adaptation”, but part of that involves a blunt presentation of the lowest-common-denominator problem that Hollywood gives us. If you haven’t seen it, run, don’t walk.

by NCT on Aug 21, 2011 12:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ya talkin to me? I offer mynhighedfv

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 21, 2011 12:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Damn phones. I offer my highest praise to NCT only to get a knee shot. Remembered.

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 21, 2011 12:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That was the Maker's Mark talking.

I don’t drink very often these days. It would seem bourbon makes me a little feisty. I’m just glad you didn’t mention your grandmother.

by NCT on Aug 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Trust me, I understand.

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 21, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, I at least see where you're coming from on that issue.

But “John Doe” told his attorney that there were two more bodies yet to be found, not two bodies in the field. The two bodies “yet to be found” were Gwyneth Paltrow and John Doe himself. At the end of the story, there were seven deadly sins, and seven dead bodies. One can argue that it’s a cop-out on the part of the writers because Mills’ wife was one of the bodies, but not one of the sinners, so her death shouldn’t count. John Doe himself said that when he was found he had to accelerate his plans, however… so he might have settled for just having 7 bodies instead of strictly punishing all of the 7 sinners themselves.

I just did a quick Wikipedia search, and it turned up the following nuggets of info:

Planned scripted ending:

In an earlier draft for the film, Walker wrote a different finale for the film, in which Doe does not kill Tracy but leads the detectives on a chase. Upon approaching an abandoned warehouse where he claims two bodies are hidden, he drops through a manhole into the sewer system, and Mills gives chase. However, he is subdued by Doe and taken to an old church, but Somerset arrives to save him. When Mills tries to fight back, Doe shoots and kills him, which prompts Somerset to shoot the killer and leave him to die in the now-burning church. After Mills is given a hero’s funeral, Tracy decides to move back to Philadelphia, and Somerset promises to keep in touch with her following his retirement. It ends with him returning to the police station, making it clear that he is not finished with his job.

The studio initially wanted to go with this ending, but, according to the DVD commentary, they dropped it after Pitt and Freeman refused to promote the film unless the final ending Fincher had planned was used.

Storyboarded ending

An unfilmed but alternate ending made up of storyboards features Somerset shooting John Doe in an act of self-sacrifice to save Mills and prevent Doe from winning. The buildup to the climax is played out as it was in the final product, albeit with some minor differences. Upon learning of the death of Tracy and his unborn child, Mills tries to convince Somerset to let him kill Doe, explaining that they could claim he was trying to escape. After Somerset pleads with him to give up his gun, he asks “Who will take my place?” and then shoots Doe. When a shocked Mills yells “What are you doing?” Somerset simply says, “I’m retiring”, implying that he will take responsibility and cover up what Mills planned to do.

On the DVD commentary, Fincher states that once the desired resolution to the Doe/Mills/Somerset confrontation was settled upon, the film was then to end immediately after Mills shot Doe – the final camera shots being the scene of the crime viewed from the helicopter. Nevertheless, the additional scene was added with Mills’ being driven off to get help and Somerset indicating that he would not yet retire.

I actually kind of like the originally scripted ending, but I don’t think the “real” ending of the movie (Mills living) renders Somerset’s final line of the movie meaningless. He was a cynical, hard-hearted, crusty old man at the beginning of the movie (and had been so much of his life, we find out). During the movie, he softens up some, and the circumstances of the movie cause him to come around full-circle at the end back to his original cynicism about the basic lack of human decency and inherent “good-ness.”

My final (and biggest) question, however, is this: Who would have killed Mills? Why would Somerset have killed him, since Mills emptied his gun into John Doe? Would the snipers in the helicopters have taken him down because he shot the suspect? Or would he have turned the gun on himself after shooting John Doe? (I guess that’s the most plausible, but I don’t see the logic in it.)

by vineyarddawg on Aug 21, 2011 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to get overly technical, but Gwyneth Paltrow wasn't one of the bodies . . .

. . . in the field. Only her decapitated head was delivered to the field (hence, no body, if you will pardon the Marty-Feldman-in-“Young-Frankenstein” allusion), and she didn’t represent one of the sins; she was merely the means to the end. (She was also pregnant, and, given Kevin Spacey’s strict religious interpretation, there’s little doubt that, in his mind, the murder of a pregnant woman would could as two deaths, not one, so, if we treat Paltrow as one of the seven victims, the math doesn’t add up.) The two bodies were Spacey (who represents envy and is killed by Brad Pitt) and Brad Pitt (who represents wrath and should have been killed either by himself or by Morgan Freeman).

Freeman, by the way, appears to agree with my interpretation. Please note that Freeman is the one who figures it all out, and, when he unwraps the package and finds the head, he immediately throws his gun away, because he knows Spacey’s endgame, and has chosen not to be a part of it; he knows Spacey’s plan is for Pitt to kill Spacey and Freeman to kill Pitt, thereby completing the circle. As it ends, six deadly sins are punished in the “appropriate” (by Spacey’s lights) manner (the wages of sin being death), and the seventh gets hauled away in the back of a police car. It leaves the arc unfinished, for no better reason than that American moviegoing audiences aren’t up to seeing Brad Pitt die in a non-heroic and thought-provoking manner.

“Seven” is almost a great movie, but it ends up wimping out in the end. It’s like Icarus: it flew high, but plummeted to earth.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

To answer your closing question, by the way, . . .

. . . I think it makes the most sense for Pitt to turn the gun on himself in his distress, because Freeman (as I noted) has taken himself out of the game by throwing the gun away (thus indicating his awareness of Spacey’s plan, as I have outlined it). That ending is most consistent with Pitt’s emotionally overwrought state at that point, and it makes the closing line make the most sense.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

But if he empties his clip on Spacey, how?

In his state, should he think save that last bullet for himself? To make your plan work, he has to show more restraint in shooting Doe, and thus becomes less wrathy.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're overthinking this by thinking he'd be overthinking this.

Boom . . . boom . . . boom . . . (turn gun on self) . . . boom!

It makes way more sense than what happens, which, again, makes the “two bodies” thing a lie and makes the movie make no sense.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see your point about eight bodies rather than seven due to the baby...

… but my point was that John Doe never said there were two bodies “in the field.” He said (through his attorney) there were “two more bodies,” and that he would “lead the detectives to them.” He did that by causing (or “leading”) them to go to Mills’ house and discover his wife’s body after what happened in the field.

I think the line where John Doe tells the detectives they caused him to “make some changes” to his plan after he was found out provides the plot excuse for Mills’ wife to die instead of Mills himself.

I agree with you, however, that by John Doe’s strict intention of “the sinner must die,” then he should have just raped Mrs. Mills or something, which still might have caused Mills to shoot him, but he still would have had no assurance that Mills would take his own life. Being the control freak he was, John Doe would have wanted to ensure a body count of 7 bodies.

It’s not clean, but I think that’s what makes it more plausible as a movie, since he has to change his plans at the last minute due to the police tracking him down. I guess what I’m saying is that even if I concede all of your points, I still think Seven ranks as one of the best movies Morgan Freeman ever made.

by vineyarddawg on Aug 21, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see, and respect, that point of view, . . .

. . . but it just doesn’t seem plausible to me that we can count Gwyneth Paltrow, since she isn’t an exemplar of any of the seven deadly sins. Kevin Spacey only kills her in order to prompt Brad Pitt to kill him for the sin of envy. If innocent bystanders who die can count toward the seven, the moral force of the movie is utterly dissipated, and it goes from being a thought-provoking examination of the human heart to being something much, much less.

To me, the key is Morgan Freeman throwing his own gun away when he sees the head in the box. Why would he do that, except in an effort to avert the endgame he now sees developing? Moreover, what is the logic of the last line if Brad Pitt doesn’t die (whether by Freeman’s hand, or by his own) for the sin of wrath? He says (I’m quoting this from memory, so it may not be verbatim): “‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second half of that statement.”

What makes the first half of that statement untrue for Freeman is the pervasiveness and ascendancy of evil, but what about the ending as it stands ought to make him take the position that the world isn’t a fine place? His goal was to break the cycle and prevent the endgame, and, by keeping all seven victims from dying (a goal to which he expressly committed himself by throwing his gun away, thus ensuring he would not be an instrument of Spacey’s will), he accomplished his objective. Good triumphed. The world, with all its flaws, ought therefore to be considered a fine place.

Freeman’s closing statement that he doesn’t believe the world is a fine place makes perfect sense if Pitt kills Spacey and then turns the gun on himself, thus bringing Spacey’s plan to fruition. Evil has won, and the world is not a fine place, but Freeman is willing to fight for it, nevertheless. I just can’t reconcile the act of throwing the gun away and the closing observation with Brad Pitt’s survival.

It’s a very, very good movie. It fell one gunshot into Brad Pitt’s temple shy of being a great movie. In the last 15 years, I’ve never been able to shake the disappointment I felt at being short-changed by the film’s final payoff.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always figured Somerset (Freeman) threw the gun away so he wouldn't kill John Doe himself.

Somerset did, after all, develop an emotional attachment himself to Paltrow’s character, and he knew John Doe was manipulative enough to force people to do things they didn’t want to do. In fact, throughout the entire movie Somerset was always more cautious, respecting John Doe’s abilities, while Mills let himself be controlled at virtually every turn. He was an unwitting pawn multiple times in John Doe’s schemes.

Somerset didn’t want to become an unwitting accomplice in John’s plan, so he threw the gun away From that point on, Somerset had no more control, and he knew Mills was going to be manipulated to do whatever John Doe wanted him to do, so he told the police on the radio channel, “Stay away… John Doe has the upper hand.”

I concede that the death of Mills’ wife rather than Mills himself is a flaw in John Doe’s “sermon” (as Somerset called it). In my opinion, however, the ultimate reason the ending is satisfactory is because John Doe didn’t have time to complete his plan in the “clean” method he would have originally chosen (which would have resulted in Mills’ death), so he had to change his plans. He completed his “sermon,” by getting seven bodies, even though it was “messy” and technically not correct from his own theological standpoint.

From John Doe’s perspective, he probably would have surmised that the messiness of the ending would be missed by the vast majority of average people, and even if they made a distinction between Mills and his wife dying, they would consider the difference trivial because they were related. And in the end, completing his “sermon” was probably more important to him than getting every detail right, and he knew he didn’t have the time to complete it properly.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but the ending just doesn’t take as much away from the power of the movie for me as it does for you. We can agree to disagree, though.

by vineyarddawg on Aug 22, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

On that note...

another movie I like, Suicide Kings with Christopher Walken and others.
Spoiler alert:
The original end had two of the primary characters getting off as Walken had a soft spot in his heart. Test audeinces didn’t like it, thought it unrealistic, and they changed it so Walken kills them.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

that would be complaint number 1, the striped mask is a definite wtfo? I mean, really?

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 20, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

or perhaps since the Nerds had old-gold helmets and yellow pants.

by rbubp on Aug 20, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll throw out some "winners"

—almost anything Boise State has worn recently
—almost anything Florida A & M has worn recently
—almost anything Clemson have ever worn that involved purple
—Iowa State, whose helmets are currently darker red than their other parts
—Wyoming when they wear brown jerseys, white helmets, and yellow pants
—those things the Houston Astros wore in the 1980s
—those White Sox unfiorms in 1979
whoops…

by rbubp on Aug 20, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, hey, if we're going major league baseball, . . .

. . . those Astros uniforms were pretty heinous, but let’s not forget the Montreal Expos, the San Diego Padres, and the engineer-cap-wearing Pittsburgh Pirates of that same era!

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 20, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

April 8th, 1976


Comiskey Park, Chicago. Worst.Uniform.Ever.

Not even COTG would justify this.

"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell

by DavetheDawg on Aug 20, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was it "Dress Like Angus Young" Day?

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 21, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Am I the only one a little bit worried

That if the kids read a thousand comments all over the internet about how much their Dawg fans hate the uniform – the uniform that they themselves thought was pretty awesome – that they may just trot out a little bit self-conscious on 9/3?

Like going to a party where you know a girl you like is going to be there, and picking out a shirt you thought was kind of cool, and your buddy meets you at the front door and says “I cannot believe you wore that to this party.”

or

Like taking our players to a Harry Potter movie they worked hard and saved up their allowance to go see, and then on the ride home telling them how horrible the plot was compared to Star Wars.

by Actual Box of Cornflakes on Aug 21, 2011 12:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Empire had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader’s his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that’s what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.

Remember the Rose Bowl: The Story of the Alabama Crimson Tide & the Grandaddy of Them All

by kleph on Aug 21, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

It also had Princess Leia in the gold bikini.

I was 14 years old when “Return of the Jedi” was released. Don’t underestimate the importance of the gold bikini scene. I’m just sayin’.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is how I will always remember her too...

Awe, the innocence of adolescence!

Success is never final. --Winston Churchill

by Inteljumper on Aug 21, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

first saw ROTJ when I was around 5, when they used to show it on Thanksgiving all day on TV

and the space battle above Endor is still one of my top-5 battle scenes

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 21, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, remembering a fight scene featuring Muppets versus remembering . . .

. . . a hot babe in a skimpy metal swimsuit would be the essence of the distinction between seeing a movie for the first time at five and seeing a movie for the first time at 14! :)

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ackbar and Lando's co-pilot wer the only muppets in that battle scene!

I’m talking exclusively about the assault on the Death Star

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 22, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

All right, fair enough, . . .

. . . although Ackbar has become enough of a punch line (“It’s a trap!”), and Billy Dee Williams has, too, for that matter (“Colt 45, baby!”), that the distinction still stands.

Cool scene. Still not as cool as Princess Leia in the gold bikini. ;)

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 22, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

That thing's operational!

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 22, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's what I said.

(I am so very, very ashamed of myself. . . .)

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 22, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I tee 'em up..

"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald

by Anthony Pace on Aug 22, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Red'd for innuendo...

Success is never final. --Winston Churchill

by Inteljumper on Aug 22, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uni Numbers

If I remember correctly, the numbers are smaller and closer together to make the players appear broader chested, and hence, more intimidating. Jenkins in a 6 should be a hoot. Have at my comma usage. (long time reader, first time commenter)

by Themrmove on Aug 21, 2011 1:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, Themrmove! Welcome aboard!

I’m glad to know there was a thought process behind the skinny numbers. We’ll see how they look in an actual game, as opposed to on immobile models.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uni Numbers

Info per the Championship game announcers.

by Themrmove on Aug 21, 2011 1:58 AM EDT reply actions  

OK DIE HARD UGAS

We have had our fun, vomit and venting over the uniforms that have been forced on us by the “cross country runners” of the FAR northwest. It is now time to swallow our bile and disgust for these abominations and agree that regardless of the break in tradition, regardless of the lacking of UGA, regardless of the lacking of SILVER BRITCHES…we must now swallow all that disgust and stand behind our players….we must hit the dome decked out in as much red as our closets can contain….we must paint ATLANTA in red on September 3rd…we have had our say, but most importantly the players love the look, the players make up our beloved UGA football team, and we love UGA…STAND PROUD IN ALL RED…let’s go forth as a nation (THE DAWGNATION) and break broncos…WE ARE GEORGIA and GO you RED BRITCHES….Carolina waits in the wings

I HATE ORANGE

by Dawg2011 on Aug 21, 2011 2:57 AM EDT reply actions   3 recs

+10000. No more complaints.

by Themrmove on Aug 21, 2011 3:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

OK, can you actually get the gloves from Nike?

My son’s team is red with the superG. That would be awesome.
My vote - enshrine the uni’s after victory over Boise.
Wear those gloves all season long.

by hbtd on Aug 21, 2011 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm with you on the gloves.

I haven’t looked for them yet; I figured that, since they were unveiled yesterday, they probably aren’t available for purchase yet, but, yeah, my son definitely wants a pair.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just read this in the AJC this morning:

from CMR “We knew the fans wouldn’t like the uniforms…..which is why we released them early, to give time to digest it….and now we [can move onto the game]”

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Aug 21, 2011 10:09 AM EDT reply actions  

It's a logical move...

… since by game time I’m sure I’ll be over it. :-) I need a few days to RAEG, but I’ll get past it in time for the game.

by vineyarddawg on Aug 21, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

What I don't get is...

why McGarity (or whoever) approves them in the first place. Do they have no impact on the creative process to say, let’s keep the silver britches, or here’s our old silver helmet style, let’s go with it instead of the one with the fat stripe? Could they not veto some of problem areas? If they did veto worse ideas, I shudder to think what came before this to make them willing to say “OK” on the hideousness.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Proof that reasonable minds can disagree..

I, for one, think the helmets are the best part of the new uni, and the red stripe makes it.

I also think the black “V” on the neckline is the worst part of it.

by Hobnail_Boot on Aug 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

...

Or, “How I learned to stop worrying and love the uniforms.”

by vineyarddawg on Aug 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your thinking mirrors mine exactly.

And if it’s true the red stripe represents the blood that ran down Erk’s face when he head-butted the players, that just makes it extra cool.

Will

by wqueenjr on Aug 21, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

thats not really true

a commenters just made it up to make us all feel better and it worked.

by Mark Mandingo on Aug 21, 2011 3:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

then it'd be on the facemask, and not the whole helmet.

Erk didn’t have a blood mohawk going.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then it wouldn't be a blood mohawk either.

Unless you’ve seen a mohawk that went down the face as well. Actually, now that I say that, that’d be pretty cool. Thise guys from Whisker Wars should try that.

Will

by wqueenjr on Aug 21, 2011 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No, I can see folks liking the helmet.

As I say, I love the silver helmet idea, I just think they overdid it with a center stripe wide enough to provide a parking space for a Packard. It was a good concept that was taken too far, which is a different thing from it being a bad concept.

However, the Erk explanation—-which completely came from the comment threads here, not from Nike—-ameliorates the execution of the concept considerably.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Teens Love the Unis

It’s a youth thing

2 years to the Cup

by Caniac233 on Aug 21, 2011 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I have absolutely no doubt . . .

. . . that you are right upon that point.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Aug 21, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

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