Will the 2011 Chick-fil-A Kickoff Classic Tell Us More About the Georgia Bulldogs or the Boise State Broncos?
by T Kyle King on Jul 28, 2011 10:00 PM EDT
in Georgia Bulldogs Football
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PrintSo here’s what I’m wondering this morning – if Georgia walks out of the Dome on 9/3 with a win, is it going to be brushed off, much like the 2005 results were? Will a Georgia win be seen as saying more about Boise State than Georgia?
Senator Blutarsky (July 27, 2011)
The answers to the Senator’s questions, obviously, are: "Yes" and, "Yes." Actually, the answers to the Senator’s questions are: "Hell, yeah" and, "Well, duh," but we try to maintain a respectful tone around these parts.
Simply stated, the Boise St. Broncos stand to gain more by beating the Georgia Bulldogs than the Bulldogs stand to gain by beating the Broncos. This, by the way, is unbelievably, comically stupid, but that does not make it any the less so. Boise State has been demonstrably the better program in recent years, and the undeniable distinction in schedule strength attendant to playing in the SEC as opposed to the WAC does not change this fact in the slightest.
Last year, Georgia lost to the Central Florida Knights and the Colorado Buffaloes, while Boise State beat the Utah Utes and the Virginia Tech Hokies. No amount of chanting "S-E-C! S-E-C!" can change the fact that, in 2010, the Broncos wouldn’t have gone 6-7 against our schedule, and the Bulldogs wouldn’t have gone 12-1 against their schedule.
By any sensible system of measurement, Georgia, not Boise State, is the team looking to card a signature win to state its case for admission to the national elite. (Oh, all right, re-admission, but being on the outside looking in is being on the outside looking in, irrespective of whether you’ve been there before.) The fact remains, however, that, if Georgia wins, the Broncos will fall farther in the polls than the Red and Black will rise; the chant at the end of a Bulldog victory in the Dome would be, "O-ver-ra-ted!" not, "Un-der-ra-ted!"
To repeat, this makes no sense whatsoever. With a little over 625 votes cast in the poll, nearly three-fourths of Bronco fans would not consider 2011 a successful season without at least a BCS bowl berth, and more than two-fifths of the BSU faithful will be disappointed with anything less than perfection. Bulldog Nation, meanwhile, knows that, as wonderful as it would be to win on September 3, that game is nowhere near as mission-critical as the following week’s outing against the South Carolina Gamecocks; heck, the Oregon Ducks in 2009 and the Virginia Tech Hokies in 2010 both went on to win conference championships and receive BCS bowl berths after dropping season openers to Boise State.
Given the present postures of the respective programs, Georgia should get substantially more credit for beating the Broncos than they would get for defeating the ‘Dawgs, but that simply isn’t the way the situation is seen. The conventional wisdom is as undeniably silly as it is undeniably true.
That’s not to say that Georgia wouldn’t get more credit for beating Boise State in 2011 than the Red and Black received for the same feat in 2005, of course, but old habits---which is to say, old prejudices---die hard. The view of the Broncos as a bunch of plucky upstarts is mistaken, but it’s there, in the public consciousness, calling to mind the moment in "Northern Exposure" at which Chris Stevens told Maurice Minnifield that the beauty of learned behavior was that he could unlearn it.
By every reasonable standard, a win over Boise State presently means much more than it did before, and a win over Georgia doesn’t mean nearly as much as it once did. The common perception is horribly wrong, but it is the common perception, which is why the answers to Senator Blutarsky’s questions are so obvious and unmistakable . . . and, on the evening of September 3, it will be the Bulldogs’ job to reinforce as emphatically as possible the widespread misconception about the Broncos that every sensible person knows to be utterly false.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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I get to lead off again - because yes, its so bloody hot and I have nothing much better to do.
When this game was announced I said it’s a lose / lose. SInce you admire concision, that’s concise. You wrote extensively about why it’s a lose lose. If we beat BSU we should move to top ten, no? If we win, watch how the media back-peddles. Watch how the excuses come out. If BSU wins, however, oh my! They beat the entire SEC (or that’s what the BSU folks were trying to say last week). They are the real deal! They are worthy of a BCS bowl and even a NC shot.
I like big OOC opponents, we all do. However, as we discussed on another thread, the best schedule is two patsy’s to start to get warmed up and get through depth issues with off season problems. UGA should really get a LOT of credit for the OOC games under CMR. It’s not, however the way to an NC. I think McGarity took on this game out of normal character in order to give a “prove it to me” statement to CMR. He wants to generate excitement in the program again and make a statement. I don’t expect big openers in the future. And although week 2 is much more important to our trip to Atlanta, this game sets tone and attitude coming off of last year’s bowl. I think how we play this game as well as getting a W is critical to the rest of the season.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
by tankertoad on Jul 28, 2011 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Fully agreed.
And if beating Georgia is the only thing a team needs to do to earn a NC berth (which I have seen BSU fans saying)… well, we’re gonna need a playoff this year.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
We do need a playoff imo
But for now, we have this system and if this system, via certain teams losing and certain teams going undefeated, places Boise St. in one of the top two spots…then yes, they should be in that game. Just the same as if West Virginia won the Big East and things worked out in the polls for them…or if Florida St. becomes a football giant again, cruising through their mediocre conference.
It’s the system we have and it should apply across the board until we can all decide on something better. I would be pro-playoff, keeping the polls and admitting the Top 16 teams.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
Most of us don't think in those terms
We realize that you’re trying to rebuild your program and if we beat you most of us won’t compare beating you to an Alabama or an Oklahoma ( based on the perceptions of this season, not on tradition). However, if we do beat you I for one will be excited as hell. We’ve never beaten an SEC team and it would be great for our program. After that I’ll be rooting for you guys to win out ( because we have to do that as a non-aq school) and if you do win the rest of your games then yeah, it is the way to the NC game. If you win out in the SEC with 1 loss to us and we go undefeated then we deserve to go to the big game. How can you not agree with that?
Yeah, that line is going to follow me around for a while, isn't it? :)
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe just with me, but yea. You said it so matter of factly, and I had milk coming out of my nose.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Fair enough.
Again, though, I just said I admired it, not that I practiced it. :)
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Jul 28, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The response (Tankertoads) and the post are both very concise
Not necessarily marvels of it, but the sentiments are well expressed and well thought out. So rare in a college football forum….
I'd rather be surfing.
by Pac 10 Alum on Jul 30, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
We do what we can! :)
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Jul 30, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Soo...
Losing to us does wonders for your conference play, if Oregon and VT are any indication. :-) Okay, maybe not. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, all I really want from this game is a good game. I think my team will win, as is required of me, being a Boise native and a long-time fan, but I still refuse to talk bad about the Dawgs because 1) they’re my favorite SEC team, and 2) I don’t like to trash talk the only team that has completely owned us in the last 10 years. I think that your team is hungry, and poised to prove again that they belong. I wish your team the best of luck, starting September 4th.
Well stated...
..although I don’t see a Bulldog victory being brushed aside like 2005. For the reasons you stated, BSU has earned a little more respect than they had in 2005. A BSU loss will have it’s share of excuses such as the loss of Titus Young and Pettis but the 2011 team is unlikely to look mediocre the rest of the season and lose their bowl game at home giving more credence to a Georgia win.
Interesting how each fan base feels that a victory will only be minimized by the pundits of CFB and both groups are probably correct.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
If the Dawgs
By some miracle win, ( can not believe I even typed that!) By all means I think they would have shown a great turn around and should be justly compensated for it. However lets stay with this for a minute.
Whats does other opinions in the polls this early really mean, as TKK pointed out both Oregon and V-Tech went on to BCS bowl games, least you all forget what happened to V-tech just 4 days later… IN the end both games were hard fought and the best team on the field did win those games, the true strength of their teams were able to pull them selves up and go on.
So to consider what other might think of the Dawgs if the unthinkable happened, it would merely be be the first signs of how good the team is, and would prove it’s self out over the season as such.
However to add to the hypocrisy of it all consider this v-tech went on to lose to a D2 school and still got a BCS bowl, Boise State went on to lose to a top 10 team and didn’t even get a new Years day game, so now you just might have an understanding of what the folks from Boise are talking about when we call out hypocrisy!
And don’t even bring up Uconn… blood will spill…
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
I forgot to add
went on to lose to a top 10 team at their place in over time……
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on Jul 28, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Darth come home we miss you.
I'm the 12 th man its my job its my duty.
by Dothework on Jul 29, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We'll see
I’ve been told when I left many bad words were exchanged, I seem to bring out the very best in people ;)
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on Aug 2, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with you.
I find myself fervently hoping that the Red and Black confirm a stereotype that I earnestly believe to be false.
by first and thom on Jul 28, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions
Boringly conclusive and obvious but . . .
I think this question highlights how the mind of college football fans works in the long dog days of summer, impatiently waiting for the season to approach. The only “reasonable” conclusion that can be drawn on the perception of third parties, mainly the media, is that this game will be judged by how the rest of each team’s season unfolds. Our ability to pretend that a game like this exists in a vacuum is the only way to tolerably get through the long, hot off-season which has all questions and no answers.
If I remember correctly, the 2002 opener against Clemson was pretty hyped and ended with the dogs hanging on for a 31-28 victory. What part of that game would have led anyone to believe Georgia would post a 13-1 record and go on the win the SEC title game 30-3 and beat FSU in the Sugar Bowl ? Similarly, I doubt Trev Alberts was espousing that Clemson would then spiral to a 7-6 record with blowout losses to Maryland, NC State, and Texas Tech.
I guess the only accurate vacuum conclusion is that big openers set the tone and, perhaps, a 3 point victory meant a world of difference over a 3pt loss. Of course, none of this will ultimately stop the inevitable Armageddon that will ensue if we see a Boise Victory (or even a blowout) followed by a rebound by the Dawgs that takes them to Atlanta. In any case, I’d take my money to Vegas on the fact that neither of those will happen. And if we get our doors blown off in what everyone would agree is, at a minimum, a tone setting game, there’s no way in hell we turn the season completely around. Just being a realist.
For what its worth, if UGA loses a close contest to Boise and follows it up with a 7-5 season (or even 8-4), Boise will still be pitching the same argument in 2012.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
Boringly conclusive and obvious……
ouch.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
by boring and conclusive...
I meant myanalysis and not the question posed. I love this stuff ! Its what keeps me sane.
(sorry if that wasn’t clear). This all being said, I agree with the post below. Boise is a stepping stone to South Carolina. In our fragile state, a victory over Boise is absolutely critical to our mindset for South Carolina, which in turn sets the tone for the entire season.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
by esquiredawg on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I should have asked, I realized it after I posted.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
As a life long UGA fan mission critical is Boise not S. Carolina.
Carolina would hurt but they are in the SEC and the front runner for the East. Despite picks I am not expecting a trip to the SECCG. A bowl in Florida is the goal.
Boise is a loss that would linger and be pointed at for years to come as BS’s 1st win over a SEC team and on a national stage. Va Tech lost to a nobody the next week and has always choked against Top10 teams yet was used to prop up Boise St. A win over an SEC school and the 2nd year in a row for the opener to be a big win on a neutral site against a BCS school would make the Boise St argument that much stronger.
Further I am always disappointed in the view that UGA fans care about conf goals and just keeping in the race to win the division. The goal is short sited for a program that has the resources Athens has, UGA should compete on most years for SEC titles, and BCS bowls.
by OttovonRuss on Jul 28, 2011 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
but the way to BCS bowls is by SEC ranking. Strong OOC wins don’t mean much if you finish 2 slots lower in the conference rankings with the extra in-conference loss, considering that in most years exactly 2 SEC teams will play in BCS bowls.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
by AdamLilly on Jul 28, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If the 1 loss is to S. Car. chances are UGA can still get an at large BCS bid if S. Car wins the conf. even if they don’t there is still a chance.
Boise would be a loss for the entire conf.
by OttovonRuss on Jul 29, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Thing is though, lose to Boise St in the opener, but beat SC
and we could continue that run and make the national title game as a1 loss SEC champ. As SC is supposed to be this year, if our one loss was say to them, instead of Boise, and SC went on to run the table (I know, but we are talking hypothetical), we miss out on the national title game and SEC title. So yes, it should be obvious why beating South Carolina is more important than beating Boise, although to be safe, let’s just beat both.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 29, 2011 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In this scenario if Boise runs the table and another BCS conf champ runs the table, UGA with its loss being to Boise would be playing in the Sugar against an at large pick for a #2 finish like ’07.
More importantly Boise would be viewed as a legitimate threat for a national title with their creampuff schedule. UGA would release the SEC’s grip on the BCS CG with the loss to Boise.
by OttovonRuss on Jul 29, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
an earlier loss might hold sway, but it hasn’t always and the strength of schedule would be strongly in UGA’s favor. I could easily see an undefeated Boise team being left out in the cold while a 1 L SEC Champion Georgia made the big game, and oh the outcry you’d hear from them and ESPN, it’d be hilarious. But we’re speaking in hypotheticals and none of this is likely to play out. Although, the idea that a 1 loss SEC champ makes it in over an undefeated mid major is easily argued considering it’s happened each of the last three seasons (TCU last year, Boise the year before that, and Utah in 2008, all undefeated, all looking up to a 1 loss SEC and national champ).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 29, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
not last year.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
true, last year Auburn went *-0
but if they’d lost one, they’d have still been in over TCU.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
GATA
This morning on ESPN radio, someone posed a theory that NFL teams that can rush the other quarterback and protect their own have a clear path to 12-13 wins. This theory would translate between an 8-4 season and a 9-3 season for college, with all other team aspects being pedestrian. Lets just win them all ! Cool ?
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
ESPN = MOTO
(master of the obvious. I can’t believe those guys get paid to say things like “the team with the most points wins.”)
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Georgia is down by 4 with just under 2 minutes left
They’re gonna have to shoot for the end zone.
I can haz ESPN job?
"If there's one thing worse than chlamydia, it's Florida." ~ Emma Stone
by RedCrake on Jul 28, 2011 11:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
must
avoid
kitten
temptation
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Please give in
They’re just too good to deprive us of the fun.
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
I Corinthians 9:24
by Southern Dawg on Jul 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not enough thpittle on the dethk in front of you.
by vineyarddawg on Jul 29, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I could always raise my child to be an entitled punk
Then get his college coach fired using my considerable influence.
PS. I got paid to play Ultimate Frisbee in college…but let’s keep that on the downlow.
"If there's one thing worse than chlamydia, it's Florida." ~ Emma Stone
by RedCrake on Jul 29, 2011 12:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think that's the same . . .
I don’t think that’s as obvious an analogy as saying "more points wins games." If so, one could certainly make the argument Mark Richt is teetering on missing the obvious. Or is just getting around to understanding the "so called" obvious.
Assuming "protecting your QB and getting to theirs" is synonymous with "winning in the trenches," where has Mark Richt been the last several years ? We rarely put our sweat equity into going after the elite lineman like we do the elite skill players, the acquisition of Jenkins being a rare but wise departure from Richt’s norm.
Perhaps we don’t need 5 blue chip tight ends and 4 fullbacks to the detriment of depth at left tackle or defensive end ? Meanwhile, our SEC brethren are not only going after elite lineman harder, but they’re signing more of them, and more players as a whole. I see Richt’s point about over-signing but, IMO, Richt owes a duty to his employer and its alumni to play "within the rules." And my definition of playing "within the rules" also means not creating unnecessary hurdles for your program that are not required by any authoritative body. Richt’s philosophies could very well become law, but until they do, he is doing UGA a disservice by playing by stricter rules than the competition. This is why we’re one injury away from dissaster at several positions.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
by esquiredawg on Jul 29, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
BSU winning is big to Boise because they can't afford to lose any.
If they don’t go undefeated, then they aren’t even in the BCS Bowl games.
I do think this game is more important to Georgia because many people don’t trust them. Going from 7-6 to 11-2 is a big jump.
How about 6-5 to a NC?
I am going to where this on out, sorry, but it is how it is.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
yes - see UGA 1979 and UGA 1980.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
From nmnathletics.com
1979 | Schedule
At 6-5, there was no bowl game for the ‘Dogs, but they did defeat Florida and Georgia Tech. It was a good team with experience, but a missing ingredient had to be found — a tailback.
Ironic isn’t it.
The bottom line isn't in the quote.
I made a mistake.
Hmmm. . . something must've happened between '79 and '80.
"We may have to retire this feature, because the final story in this post will never be topped for sheer Spicy Livin' outside of the silver screen or our own imaginations."
by Silver Britches on Jul 29, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
That used to be the case
But with Utah and BYU out of the picture as competition for an automatic BCS bid, and TCU in the same conference (this year only, then TCU plays by AQ conference rules), I think Boise has an excellent chance of getting to the BCS at 11-1 in the future. They have the reputation that will keep them in the top 12 with one loss, and I don’t see how another non-AQ team gets ranked higher (the only non-AQ teams that have the schedule to do it — by virtue of a tough non-con slate — will certainly lose at least one game because their schedule is too tough).
I love BSU, the town, and the little campus, but
Y’all bout to get a wakeup call.
If Kentucky, or even Tenn came through…………y’all gone get a wake up call……
Welcome to DawgSports, Big Sky Dawg, and I hope we see a lot more of you in the days and weeks to come...
… but for the love of all things pessimistic, son, shut your mouth!
by vineyarddawg on Jul 29, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
*jinx aversion*
No, no, it’s alright. He’s referring to Southern hospitality. On the morning of the game, the hotel will provide them with a wake up call so they won’t be late.
That’s certainly all that was meant, right?
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
okay
as a Tennessee fan, these last few years have been trying. But at no point have we fallen to the level where you can say "Kentucky, or even Tenn. . . "
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 29, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Hold on there a bit freshman
I think someone needs to take Doolynomics 101 and Munson Theory 2 before throwing around such statements.
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
I Corinthians 9:24
by Southern Dawg on Jul 29, 2011 12:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One of the best written and most efficiently concise articles I've read recently.
Perception…that is the key indeed.
I’d say that were UGa to win, their remaining games against South Carolina, potentially UF, Auburn if they don’t tank (and I don’t expect them to), and especially the SEC Championship Game (if UGa makes it) will determine your fate far more than a victory over Boise St.
However, should UGa not go undefeated or win the SEC East, a win over Boise St. could still be a quality win that has a factor in Bowl placement IF Boise State finishes strong and beats a highly ranked TCU team and respectable USAF team…so you’ll want to keep tabs on those two programs’ W-L records. I’d toss in San Diego St. but my faith in that budding program has diminished recently.
It is the same for Boise St. If we win, we really need UGa to have a good season so it doesn’t diminish our win. Last year when VT lost to James Madison right after losing to BSU it severely diminished our accomplishment. No one seemed to take into account that the JMU game was just 4 days after a physically and emotionally grueling battle against BSU or that VT faced a spread offense w/ speed that day (which compounded the problem w/ their tired legs).
VT went on to sweep the ACC and beat a fiesty Florida St. squad in the ACC CG so they kind of rebounded but still, a perception remained that it wasn’t a quality win b/c of the loss to a div II team. So perception goes a long way within a system that uses voting and opinion as it’s basis.
See you guys Sep. 3rd, I’m looking forward to a tough showdown.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
We will sqeak by Boise on a Blair Walsh FG………worried about Carolina more
by Sex,Dawgs&RocknRoll on Jul 29, 2011 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
First a word of caution
I have been wrong a few times in my life. Like when I thought I was safe from the draft board and when I said I do the first time. That being said I don’t understand all of the gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands.
All I read is wow we have a tough opening game – well BS has a tough opening game too. I see a UGA team that has more and better athletes across the board. I see a UGA roster full of potential NFL players. I see a UGA team focused on proving last year was an aberration.
I also see a BS team wanting to prove they belong. I see a BS team that performs at a high level once or twice a year. They only thing that causes me concern is coaching. BS coaches have “coached their guys up” but GT was a similar opponent.
This is a statement game for both teams. I will put my money (assuming I have any left after the politicians return my wallet) on the team with more talent playing in state and coming off a disastrous two years.
I'm not sold that the disparity in pure athleticism is all that wide
Boise St. has pretty solid athletes across the board.
More importantly, I don’t think it is as big an impact as a number of other things like personnel for the system.
If UGa had a young Dwight Freeney or Brian Orakpo on their roster and played him at DE that’s not going to work out well despite their obvious elite athleticism. Kellen Moore is not generally though to have an especially strong arm but then neither did Joe Montana.
The question is which team has the best personnel for their system. The matchups in this game will be very interesting to watch…
- BSU’s 4-2-5 and dominant DL vs. UGa’s balanced attack and huge OL.
- UGa’s effectively aggressive 3-4 and mountain of a DL vs. BSU’s athletic OL.
- The speed at WR for both teams vs. the coverage schemes of the respective secondaries
- Who will stuff the run better, who will get more pressure on the QB?
These things will all be decided via scheme and playcalling more than raw athleticism.
Like most games, I expect this one to be decided in the trenches. It will be a terrific dynamic to watch.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
by pjohn56 on Jul 29, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if it comes down to scheme and playcalling, I don’t like our chances. Bobo likes to call 8 good quarters a year, typically with one good game and one good half in each of two losses.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
by AdamLilly on Jul 29, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Solid Article
One of the better I have read in a while anywhere.
Short end of the story, this game is a measuring stick for both squads. Neither team’s season ends that day.
UGA gets it’s respect like any other year with W’s in the SEC. Boise has made the gamble of the entire season on it’s opening game before, we know the score. Win or lose, both teams deserve merit for strapping it own under the big lights in the opener.
Here's the Problem
With articles such as this, be they written by the average (ok crazed) sports fan or by the media elite: It’s jumping to conclusions and it’s almost creating a self fulfilling prophecy. If Georgia does beat Boise State, at first glance, you’re probalby right. The chants will be “overrated”. But if it’s a close game, or even somewhat close, and then Boise goes undefeated the rest of the season, winning the rest of their games handily, including against TCU, preseason conference #1 picks, Hawaii & Toledo, Tulsa, Air Force, SDSU etc and beats a good bowl team (maybe even BCS Bowl) then this preseason prognostication served only to set the stage for something that really isnt (assuming those teams all do well, as well as the rest of Boise’s competition). Georgia would have beaten a quality Boise State team and it would be something to hang your hat on.
It’s been one of the biggest road blocks to Boise State’s success: media pundits saying, before the season even begins, things like “It’s a 1 game season for Boise State,” when none of the games have actually even been played. They put Boise State in a lose-lose situation before even giving them a chance. They dont know how Boise’s competition’s seasons will turn out. But they don’t really seem to care either. By doing so, they essentially create their own truth’s, and by that what I mean, is that they turn their perception’s in to reality, fair or not.
"#WINNING, Duh."
While I enjoy finding the nexus of threat construction theory and college sports as much as the next guy . . .
Am I to understand that we simply shouldn’t talk about Boise State’s season outlook for fear of affecting how it actually turns out? Can we talk about Alabama’s schedule? What about Navy’s?
I would also point out that media pundits talking about Boise State is not a roadblock to their success. Given ESPN’s cultural hegemony, it’s the roadway to Boise’s success. That’s why the Bronco athletic department has taken the courageous step of scheduling the Oregons and Virginia Techs of the world: to get the program in the faces of Americans outside the mountain time zone. I’ve always admired that approach.
I’m also scared to death of this game because if you allowed me to pick a coaching staff to have 8 months to scheme, strategize and implement a game plan, I’d choose Coach Peterson’s over Coach Richt’s. I’ve seen what those guys can do, and it’s impressive.
This is actually very true
It’s been one of the biggest road blocks to Boise State’s success: media pundits saying, before the season even begins, things like "It’s a 1 game season for Boise State," when none of the games have actually even been played. They put Boise State in a lose-lose situation before even giving them a chance. They dont know how Boise’s competition’s seasons will turn out. But they don’t really seem to care either. By doing so, they essentially create their own truth’s, and by that what I mean, is that they turn their perception’s in to reality, fair or not.
Auburn opens with a WAC school. No one is going to say it’s a one game season for Utah State before the game, but would be shocked if they won (not that they will), especially as they are playing the Tigers at home. LSU opens against Oregon, both teams are highly ranked. One of them will lose (IMO, the Tigers, they have too many questions, frankly, that won’t be resolved and a rabid fan base from near by isn’t going to help THAT much), on the other hand, South Carolina, the team UGA will face after their opener, has East Carolina for their opener in what is considered a home game for the Gamecocks, but isn’t actually at their home stadium and Carolina isn’t exactly a non-AQ from far away, like Utah or Boise are, or without their own base of southern fans. Personally, I think East Carolina could easily win that game, because the Gamecocks are just (IMO) that suspect, especially with Garcia at center. But no one is going to talk about the Pirates as being defined by that one game.
Even if the Pirates win, no one will then say that their next game (against V Tech) will also mean their season, but should the Pirates win that and their schedule, be the CUSA champion, they could easily be perceived as 2011’s Boise State.
These are all what ifs, but my point is that the perception on Boise is different, even now.
I'd rather be surfing.
by Pac 10 Alum on Jul 30, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
A guy named "Pac 10 Alum" picks Oregon to beat LSU?
Color me shocked.
by vineyarddawg on Jul 30, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
interesting
I’m terrified as anyone about this game, but one thing I looked up a while back and forgot to get y’all to chime in on:
Big John appears to outweigh BSU’s center by about 50lbs and has 4-5 inches on him. By all accounts Big John is our most athletic defensive lineman (according to reports from other players, right?) So if you assume athleticism is a wash, you’re comparing … what? …. BSU’s coaching against an extra 50lbs of mean Mississippi man meat (I had to, sorry). You can double team that, sure, but 50 lbs is 50 lbs and if running up the middle is rendered impossible, you got big problems… how are the overlords chewing on this issue. Ok, I’ll say it… I think if we put our chips into beating them into a bloody SEC submission choke hold, I think we have a good chance at accomplishing that feat and therefore winning the game.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
by esquiredawg on Jul 29, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
They can't handle Big John,
as much as we need a running game, he is a force of nature. He will clog up the middle and be double teamed. The catch is BSU runs our offense better than we do, so we have to have successful blitz’s and not fall for trickeration. We need Moore either confused (unlikely) or scared.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Boise's breaking in new wideouts, just like us.
If we can collapse the pocket, it’ll put a lot of pressure on those new kids to adjust their routes. As a rule, Moore doesn’t throw picks and doesn’t take sacks, but a strong run defense and a few incompletions could kill drives.
I bet we’ll see a lot of 2TE, 1RB sets from Boise. The TEs put pressure on the OLBs because they can block or run routes. A TE taking a LB downfield in coverage is just as good as a TE staying in to block – or maybe better, because it will make our safeties hesitate in run support.
Man, everything hinges on us holding strong in the middle.
by first and thom on Jul 29, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Man, everything hinges on us holding strong in the middle."
That statement is not only true today, it has always been true, and it will always be true. We haven’t held strong in the middle consistently for several years, and the result has been the worst defenses, and the worst seasons, in recent memory. If Todd Grantham’s system takes hold, and the proper players are in place to execute it, we can win some ballgames, even if our offense is only so-so.
We just have to hope William Butler Yeats wasn’t writing about our defense, or that, if he was, the center will draw a ten-yard penalty when he holds.
Go 'Dawgs!
first and thom and I are like the 1-2 combo around here lately (and a little at that blue website)
So anyhow, I started thinking of how I would beat David Greene. Because watching film BSU looks a good bit like we did with Greene and add in a running back. I don’t really have an answer as no one else did either – he won a lot of games! Basically, and I am going to sound ESPNish, but “holding strong in the middle”, followed by hopefully pressure on Moore puts talent on talent and that’s where we get an advantage. We have the bigger, faster, stronger advantage but their O is a very smart one, so if we can take away their chess match and get player on player, that should work to our advantage. Big John is so critical.
I been thinking about CTG a good bit lately. He’s been quiet. I bet he’s watched more BSU film than anyone in the nation in the last months. His moment is at hand and I hope CMR turns him lose.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
by tankertoad on Jul 29, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good point about Todd Grantham.
It takes a while to learn his system, and it takes the right personnel to run his system. When Nick Saban (Coach Grantham’s old boss) took over at Alabama and implemented his version of the 3-4 (which is 100 per cent designed around the idea of defending the middle and forcing everything to the outside), it took a year to work. The Tide struggled to a 6-6 regular-season record in his first year . . . and it all came together in Coach Saban’s second season at the Capstone.
Now, I’m not predicting a 12-2 record, but last year’s disaster, at least defensively, hinged on our inability to stop the run. If that changes, everything can get better. The nice thing about dropping so many heartbreakers last year is that it shows we’re that close to winning some close ones. Significant improvement in just one area could make the difference.
Go 'Dawgs!
I think that is what the BSU folk dont understand -
we were REALLY close to winning 3 of the games we lost regular season, which changes everything. I think last year was simply the gods paying us back for Joe Cox and CMB somehow winning 9 games. Frankly, it was the kind of wake up call that was needed, leading to several changes.
This year could be very special (I wont say more).
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
I can't speak for all BSU fans
but I have spoken about this on our forums. UGa was never blown out, they had a chance in every game they played including Auburn.
My Dad is working in Alabama right now, not far from Atlanta actually. He told me he heard an SEC Coaches roundtable and that most coaches reported not being able to control UGa’s 3-4. Another year of experience and especially the personnel shifts will only enhance that.
I’m a 4th gen Dallas Cowboys fan so I’m familiar w/ Grantham’s ability. I consider the UGa 3-4 to be the mouth of the dragon until proven otherwise. Our boys will need to prepare hard for it. I also don’t know how our secondary will respong to Murray’s abilities. I like our DL’s chances of getting pressure.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
I hate reasonable opposition fans. )
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
KTMFD!
Success is never final. --Winston Churchill
by Inteljumper on Jul 29, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
thats what I am saying
this is the return. Let that man loose CMR.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
You have to be strong up the middle
Football 101…it affects the bread and butter run plays, neutralizes play action, and disrupts the passing game horribly, especially combined with a solid outside rush. Whichever team accomplishes this better puts themselves in an outstanding position to win.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
Size and speed can each be neutralized by technique
I’m not saying it will but that is why I believe the action in the trenches are going to write the story of this game.
BSU hasn’t faced anyone with your NT’s size and speed combination. That man is enormous and also explosive/fast from what I have read.
I will pass this along though; last year, after defeating Oregon St., Stephen Paea (OrST’s All-American DT) said playing BSU’s OL was like facing a professional line. Paea is a 4-3 DT and doesn’t have the height/weight of your NT to my knowledge. However, he just set the NFL Combine record for the 2000s in the Bench Press so we know he’s incredibly strong at the very least. He and his line were absolutely stonewalled the entire game.
The height advantage will favor the NT when it comes to deflecting passes but it may actually favor Byrd (OC) when it comes to leverage. Again, this is going to be a great dynamic to watch and I don’t know who will win. But I’m not counting either team out of it until I see it for myself.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
But when technique is neutralized
size and speed will triumph. I do agree though that more often than not, the low man wins, and that is a problem with taller, younger DL.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Centers have all the advanatages
I played center for a little in my youth, once in High school I moved on to linebacker.
at 190lbs in high school I would be undersized as a center in the division I played in anyways. However do to my experience in scrimmages and in Practice many times I was brought over to play center to teach the bigger guy how to do it. Ever time I would be out weight 30 to 70 lbs and every time the nose tackle would come up crying “he’s holding, he’s this or that” Playing center has nothing to do about size it’s about speed and leverage and strength, the center knows the snap count he’s the first to move he always has the advantage as he is over the ball not behind it..
BSU’s center has great experience to think this will be the first time he’ll line up against a guy that has him by 30 to 50 lbs is ridiculous.
Frankly despite all the talk about the lines I just don’t see the dawgs 3-4 doing much against BSU’s O sorry Boise is going to run at it with zone blocking and counters, around it with pulling guards, screen it when it’s over reaching and go deep when it’s low on gas. Watch for a fast tempo by Boise after the first first down, the goal to keep those over weight linemen on the field and run them into the ground.
I know as the game nears tensions and over thinking takes hold on many fan bases, but believe me nothing has change other then the Dawgs are down some running backs.
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on Aug 2, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a bad bad man.
We’ll see. UGa’s DL is enormous and their LBers hit with a lot of pop.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
Don't apologize, BSUPHAN1...
… just stop posting ’em.
by vineyarddawg on Jul 30, 2011 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, then post them at OBNUG.
Or somewhere where the regulars will give a crap about them.
by vineyarddawg on Jul 30, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
to answer your question...
no. there will never be another Barry Sanders, unless we’re talking about Barry Sanders, Jr. Then yes, there will be another Barry Sanders, but like with Herschel, the original Barry was a unique combination of athleticism we will never see the equivalent of again.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I agree, but I wouldn't put Barry in a class with Herschel.
Herschel’s yards per carry typically reflected a performance that was consistently steady, with regular dashes of spectacular.
Barry’s yards per carry did not reflect such a performance. A typical Sanders game would include a carry for a yard, a carry for no gain, a carry for a yard, a carry for no gain, a carry for a one-yard loss, a carry for two yards, a carry for no gain, a carry for a two-yard loss, and a carry for a 60-yard gain. He was balletic and athletic, but he was catching lightning in a bottle. Give me a grind-it-out tailback who’s good for four yards a pop in the fourth quarter every day of the week, and twice on Saturday.
Go 'Dawgs!
Agreed that they aren't the same back...
I was speaking more of the unique nature of both. To be the modern equivalent of Herschel, you have to be lineman size with CB speed and agility. 280, 4.3 with wiggle, and I don’t see that happening. Barry Sanders was just such a jaw dropping force. While I’d take Herschel as my TB all day over Barry, same as you, if I’m watching a highlight reel, my vote goes Barry easy.
I also wonder how much his reputation for inconsistently getting positive yards is due to the fact that he played in such a horrible system with little opening holes in Detroit. His Okie St #s (when he wasn’t backing up Thurman Thomas) are pretty impressive and even Herschel never had a season like Barry did collegiately.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 31, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally in my Opinion the greatist back ever
Was Earl Campbell, now I went to many Lions games and watch every game Barry ever played in.
Unlike Earl neither Barry nor Herschel are really that unique, truly great no doubt as I have much love for Barry, and as for Herschel well I don’t recall who the Dawgs were playing but I’ll never forget the 90+ yard run he made to win it with almost no time left great run.
That being said Doug shares much with Barry in style and ability, and of all the running backs I have watched over the years he is the one that reminds me of Barry more than anyone else.
SO I asked the question could The Muscle hamster be the next Barry Sanders?
As for his posting here and not at obnug ,I’m sure it has much to with my why I leave post, as said poster might find themselves pounced upon by a troop of haters.
A Prophet is never accepted in his home town ;)
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on Aug 2, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Impressed!
Shocking! For a SEC member… This guy make a lot of sense.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T! Thank for the words of kindness. Southern Hospitality is always present in your work.
by Micheal Schroeder on Jul 31, 2011 5:48 PM EDT reply actions
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