Makin' It Rain in Gainesville: Will Muschamp, Janoris Jenkins, and the Myth of Florida Gator "Discipline"
by T Kyle King on Apr 26, 2011 8:30 PM EDT
in SEC Football
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PrintWelcome, Florida fans, to the first official "Will Muschamp is Not Urban Meyer" moment of the new administration at the expense of your starting defense: Senior cornerback Janoris Jenkins, a three-year starter and All-SEC pick who by all accounts passed on a first-round projection in this week's draft to return to school, has been officially booted from the team in the wake of his second marijuana arrest in four months.
Dr. Saturday
The move marks a significant departure from the more lenient disciplinary procedures of the Urban Meyer era. . . . If Muschamp wanted to send a signal that his was going to be a very different way of doing things, booting his starting corner off the team is definitely a demonstrative way of doing so.
SB Nation
The official story from the UF Ministry of Information doesn't give any more real details, but basically it sounds like either A) Jenkins was kicked off the team, or B) his impending punishment was so bad that he decided he didn't want to go through with it. Almost every report coming out is saying he's been dismissed though.
Team Speed Kills
Am I missing something?
The above quotations come from three of the brightest and most credible college football bloggers I know, and they are in one accord (though Year2 at least allows for an alternative explanation before opting for the default answer): Will Muschamp just flexed his muscles and made a statement by dismissing Janoris Jenkins from the team.
Here’s the problem, though . . . it very much appears that Coach Muschamp did nothing of the sort.
Don’t take my word for it, though. Here’s how the Florida Gators’ new skipper put it:
After meeting with Janoris Jenkins today, we both felt it was in his best interest to move ahead to the next stage of his career.
The official University of Florida website is similarly noncommittal, using Coach Muschamp’s quotation verbatim and adding:
Senior cornerback Janoris Jenkins is no longer part of the Florida football program.
Jenkins met Tuesday morning with first-year Gators head coach Will Muschamp and the two decided it was best to part ways.
That is not how a major university athletics program announces a player dismissal. This is how a major university athletics program announces a player dismissal:
University of Georgia redshirt freshman quarterback Zach Mettenberger has been dismissed from the Bulldog football team according to a Sunday announcement by UGA head coach Mark Richt.
According to Richt, the dismissal is a result of violation of team rules.
See the difference? You can tell that was a dismissal, because the word "dismissed" appears in the first sentence, followed by the word "dismissal" in the second sentence. Coach Richt didn’t feel the need to kick his former quarterback while he was down by speaking ill of the young man, but neither did he mince words about what the decision was and who did the deciding.
You’ll have to pardon me for not treating it as a dismissal when the head coach says "we both felt it was in his best interest," the athletic department says "the two decided it was best to part ways," and no one even hints that the player wasn’t deeply embedded in the decisionmaking process, much less that he was involuntarily dissociated from the program. That is a far cry from saying, or even suggesting, he "has been officially booted from the team," or that Coach Muschamp is "send[ing] a signal." If he’s sending a signal, he’s doing his darnedest to conceal it behind the static of the passive voice and the language of mutual consent.
Alligator Army may have deemed this a "third strike" offense, but there’s a reason why SB Nation’s Florida weblog had to ask whether the Sunshine State Saurians should change their drug policy; it’s because the Gators have "easily the nation’s most lenient policies" when it comes to football players and controlled substances. In Gainesville, a third drug offense gets a student-athlete suspended for 20 per cent of his team’s games.
20 per cent of a twelve-game regular season is 2.4 games; even rounding up, that means University of Florida policy mandated only that Jenkins miss the Gators’ first three games of the 2011 campaign. For the record, that trio of outings will be against the Florida Atlantic Owls, the UAB Blazers, and the Tennessee Volunteers, all in the Swamp.
Yes, I suppose it’s theoretically possible that Coach Muschamp decided to send a message, in spite of the fact that he appears to have done everything in his power to keep that message to himself while punishing with a dismissal an offense that neither local social convention nor official university policy deemed deserving of anything more than a three-game suspension during home games that are not likely to challenge the Orange and Blue unduly.
That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but this could still be a highly atypical instance of the type of tough love seldom seen in Gator Nation. I mean, just consider the ill-fated Jenkins’s next stop now that his college football career is finished. Wherever will this unfortunate lad end up now that this avenue has been foreclosed?
Oh, yeah . . . Jenkins is bound for the supplemental NFL Draft.
That’s right, boys and girls: Janoris Jenkins is headed to the National Football League. Well, then, no wonder Coach Muschamp and his wayward player "both felt it was in his best interest to move ahead to the next stage of his career" when "the two decided it was best to part ways." Yeah, when faced with the choice between being suspended for one-fourth of his senior season or getting paid now, Jenkins, who almost went pro last year, opted to let Coach Muschamp throw him into the briar patch.
So does this represent a sea change for the Sunshine State Saurians? Call this parting of the ways by mutual consent a dismissal if you must, but, with all due respect to my fellow denizens of the blogosphere who view this as the start of a new era of Gator discipline, my reaction is to paraphrase a saying familiar to those lawyers who practice in the criminal law arena: "Don’t cry crocodile tears on my shoes and tell me it’s raining."
Go ‘Dawgs!
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Well done.
And I’m with you. I suppose it’ll take another “incident” to really know if things have actually changed or not.
I wonder who Chris Rainey is stalking dating these days?
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
Yeah, I think it's a little early to cast Willie Muschamp . . .
in the role of Patton. This ain’t exactly iron fist discipline. That would have been booting him from the team in January. Heck, Mark Richt kicked Demetre Baker off the team for a first DUI. I’m not sure whether that makes him Hammurabi or Solon.
We're all about ancient lawgiver references around here.
Well, ancient lawgiver references aren’t up there with the serial comma, birdwatching, or Bubba Watson’s drive distance, but they get air play, nevertheless.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hammurabi would have hated Florida, too...
… if he weren’t too busy disco dancing.
by vineyarddawg on Apr 27, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
It is way too early to tell if this is a changing of the guard, but
That being said, there are a lot of reasons one gets the boot—and they do not always directly correlate to the offense. To discredit his dismissal/leaving/whatever based on the language not being as direct as Mettenberger’s is almost of a disservice though. Baker may have been kicked off due to lack of remorse, internal issues, or prior undisclosed infractions. In my own opinion, this was not as much of a third strike, as it was why the hell could you not keep your nose clean when you know we had you on a short leash (lack of remorse).
Our best player on defense (arguably on either side) is out because he simply could not get his shit together. No matter what anyone says, UPD/GPD/ASO have more than a few officers that resent UF ball players (especially when black), and jump on their asses quicker than they would others.
Haha, but by no stretch of the imagination am I implying that they are more ruthless than Athens, or anywhere in GA. Good God it can be rough north of I-10.
Are you sure this isn't one of those deals where....
Someone high profile gets fired, and it’s brutal inside the organization, but all that is released to the press is, “he left to pursue more time with his family.”
Isn’t the goal here to defuse a situation causing negative publicity by keeping the language PC and giving folks as little to write about as possible. E.G.
UGA President Michael Adams told the board that Evans submitted his resignation, "which I have accepted," on Sunday.
The meeting, by teleconference, lasted about 15 minutes, most of that in executive — closed — session.
"As I said on Thursday morning, when I first learned of the situation, this is not an example of the kind of leadership that I expect our senior administrators to set," Adams told the committee.
"We acknowledge the many positive accomplishments of [Evans’] tenure, including an increased focus on the academic success of student-athletes, the overall financial strength of the athletic department and the hiring of many very good people as head coaches and senior leaders in the athletic department."
Now I suppose one would say “That’s Michael Adams and he’s a knucklehead anyway.” Perhaps, but my point is that I don’t think the Evans/UGA separation was quite as mutual nor as cordial as Adams is making it sound here. More generally, the version of a dismissal that is made available for public consumption doesn’t always tell the whole story.
Now I’m purely guessing about what happened between Muschamp and Jenkins. But my guess is that it wasn’t as mutual as it’s being made to sound. I feel like he’s got to navigate a tricky situation 1) he does need to send a message about discipline on his team (whatever he chooses that to be) but 2) he’d probably like this out of the news as quickly as possible. I feel like if Muschamp kicked Jenkins off the team, and presented it this way, he walked that line pretty well. He might further think that even if the readers of Dawgsports hear a lenient tone, his remaining players will see that there are limits to bad behavior before you get to have a nice mutual meeting about what you’re going to be doing instead of playing football at Florida. And for someone who doesn’t have the supplemental draft to fall back on. That could resonate.
F’em either way you understand.
Broadcasting live from a secure location underneath the Hell Gate Bridge
by The Quincy Carter of Accountants on Apr 26, 2011 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
Fair enough, although I believe the Damon Evans situation is distinguishable . . .
. . . because it was made very clear that Michael Adams asked for his resignation, and there was no suggestion that the decision was mutual. While I criticize many things about Dr. Adams’s leadership, his handling of that entire situation was, in my opinion, his finest hour, and at no point was it at all unclear that he was in charge and was making the decisions. There was no “Damon and I agreed that we should part ways.”
Once again, I don’t think Will Muschamp should have spoken ill of Janoris Jenkins, just as I’m glad Mark Richt didn’t speak ill of Zach Mettenberger. However, Coach Muschamp and the University of Florida were mealymouthed in their public statements. Perhaps this was on purpose, and perhaps it was a wise act of obfuscation designed to keep mostly private matters mostly private, but, at a minimum, we shouldn’t be jumping to the conclusion that this was a dismissal when the public statements of the principals all point to a mutual decision.
Because I have no basis for believing Coach Muschamp is lying, I believe the bloggers who have interpreted this as a dismissal probably are mistaken, and certainly are being presumptuous by assuming facts not in evidence. I’ll call it a dismissal when someone in authority in Gainesville credibly calls it a dismissal.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 26, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the two situations are distinguishable for a different reason: no one doubts that Evans would have been fired had he not tendered his resignation. He was allowed to resign rather than be fired to save face, but the outcome was (I believe) never really in doubt.
With Jenkins, the only thing certain was that he would be punished, probably ranging from a 2.4 game suspension to dismissal. As Year2 hypothesizes, it’s entirely possible that Jenkins would head to the supplemental draft rather than serve a suspension of, for example, 6 games. However, it’s also possible that a player who had considered leaving before would leave now rather than serve even a 3 game suspension. Unlike with Damon Evans, we really don’t know what punishment was on the table for Jenkins, only that 1) there was some punishment coming (otherwise there would be no new reason to leave) and 2) it was either outright dismissal OR anything less than that that he still consider to outweigh the benefits of another season.
Because school policy would require even Urban Meyer to issue at least a 3 game suspension (unless things looked bad after the first 24 minutes against UT), knowing that there would be some punishment is not enough to show that anything has changed in the swamp without knowing what Jenkins would have tolerated.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf16_mw0nxs
by AdamLilly on Apr 27, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Foley?
This kind of mushy, vague PR is not new with the Muschamp regime. UF has been using “not with the team” as a euphemism for “kicked off the team” for years, dating back to at least 2006 when dismissed LB Jon Demps (no relation to Jeff) was only referred to “no longer with the team.” The fact that it hasn’t changed makes me think that it’s a policy that comes from above the head football coach on the org chart. It might be a Jeremy Foley thing.
That said, no, this is not a new disciplinary frontier for Florida. This was Jenkins’ third arrest, and the second in Muschamp’s short time, and I can’t remember anyone has stayed on the team despite three arrests.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
Fair point.
However, it might be worth considering whether the persistent use of vague euphemisms in the passive voice is contributing to the ongoing problem in Gainesville, where the arrests tend to be for more than emerging from alleys, misspelling middle names, and driving on suspended licenses. Perhaps the authoritarian edicts from the Florida athletics administration would carry more weight if Jeremy Foley would allow his coaches to use language sufficiently strong to penetrate the Phish-concert-like haze hovering over his players’ heads. Again, just a thought.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But UF is getting to be very corporate these days, and vagueness is the SOP of corporate PR.
Besides, there’s already proof that little has changed. Two guys got arrested for pot misdemeanors in January, and not only was there no announcement made about what penalties they’d serve, but no beat writers noticed them doing anything different than the rest of the team during spring practice. We only found out about those arrests recently. Jenkins’ first arrest of this year got a response of “he’ll get internal punishment.”
Now, I don’t think it’s right or appropriate to publicly flog players over misdemeanor arrests. Minor offenses should result in minor penalties, i.e. punishment should fit the crime, etc. That said, if there really was a “new sherrif in town” who was going to “send a message” and all that stuff, then that last paragraph would read much differently. Booting a three-time offender who got busted for the same stupid thing twice in three months is consistent with past disciplinary actions at Florida anyway.
Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2
That (with minor tweaking) is precisely my point.
Everyone who sees this as a seismic shift is reading more into it than appears to be there. I’m not calling for public floggings—-again, I specifically praised Mark Richt for not ripping into Zach Mettenberger needlessly when announcing unequivocally the fact that the player had been dismissed from the team—-but I fail to see the justification for the widespread assumption (see Matt Hinton and Spencer Hall, above) that this represents some dramatic change of direction. Maybe it does, but, at this point, we have no reason to believe it does, and, based upon the statements coming out of Gainesville, it is beyond presumptuous for us to assume there is a new sheriff in town.
That is why skigator93’s snide point in his 11:09 comment below is beyond silly. Whether one believes Damon Evans just up and quit, no one suggested it was a mutual decision, and no one suggested it represented a sea change in University of Georgia policy. I’m just declining to read dramatic shifts into mealymouthed language, and disagreeing with those who do. Once again, I fail to see why anyone would get all hot and bothered over my suggestion that Will Muschamp is not a liar.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Another fact to distinguish Jenkins from Evans
Jenkins is going to the NFL. He got fired in order to get promoted. Evans is . . . doing what exactly now?
by first and thom on Apr 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions
Supplemental Draft and Regular NFL Draft are not equal
Not sure if you’ve delved into the intricaties of the NFL Supplemental draft, but Jenkins’ worth in said draft is not even in the same stratosphere of his earning potential had he elected to enter the regular draft back in January. Teams must forfeit the equivalent draft pick the following year for each player taken in the Supplemental Draft. Therefore, teams bid low and draft players later than they would have drafted them in the regular draft. The lower you are selected, the less coin you make. If you are thinking that Jenkins was not really punished because he is just going ot get paid instead of serving an unknown suspension, you need to remove the red and black glasses.
I think that Year2 might have a valid point above, as Meyer used the ‘not part of our program’ description, even to describe the dismissal of former players for the most egregious of actions. So if you want to focus on the semantics and not the result because it makes you feel better about your former player coaching your most hated rival, that is fine. But you may want to avoid criticizing what could very well be a policy of Jeremy Foley, after just hiring his assistant to lead your own program.
Not the point I was trying to make
Jenkins is going to lose money because he made bad decisions. He could have come out this year or he could have, you know, chose not to smoke pot. I’ll save my sympathy that he’s lost millions in instant money by his bad decisions.
If he wants to wait until next year’s draft (as he planned on doing), he’s free to do so. (Also, my red and black glasses extend only so far as the WR who will not be covered by Jenkins.)
The point is that Jenkins will be playing NFL ball next year (if anybody is), while Damon Evans pretty much destroyed his carreer. Jenkins will realize a loss of his expectations in the value of his first contract, but Evans is screwed.
by first and thom on Apr 27, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sympathetic to Jenkins at all. Are you sympathetic to Evans?
One man threw away millions for smoking pot
One man threw away his career by DWI and endangering the lives of others while having the panties of a woman, other than that he was married to, in his lap.
That sounds about right to me.
No sympathy for either.
I like this game! Rarely do I get to draw circles such that a hypocritical former AD who was particularly dumb and obstinate in the face of his bad actions and a pot-smoking Gator get lumped together. If only I could find a way to add the Taliban, Dancing with the Stars, and that impervious insanity plastic used in packaging in there, too…
I’ll get off my high horse, skigator93. You’re a good guy.
by first and thom on Apr 27, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That Super Bowl commercial had its moments, . . .
. . . although I’ll admit Kim’s Skechers commercial was nowhere near on a par with Brooke Burke’s.
Go 'Dawgs!
really TKK?
So because of the verbage in the reports, you’ve decided that you know that Muschamp actually didn’t kick off JJ? I’m pretty sure that ambiguous language is proof of nothing by ambiguity…let’s try a little harder next time, to not jump to incredible conclusions about “myths”, while we’re attempting to solve a 2 sentence statement from a PR dept.
Really, Cardsfan25.
I just ripped and read; it’s the other guys who were reading more into it than was there. All I said was that, if you expect me to treat it as a dismissal, call it a dismissal; if you don’t want me to think it was a mutual decision, don’t tell me it was a mutual decision. I’m taking them at their word, and their word suggests nothing has changed.
I’m sorry if I offended you by assuming your head coach wasn’t lying, but, considering how irate the Gator faithful got when I accused Will Muschamp’s predecessor of dishonesty, I have to ask . . . if you’re annoyed when I say a Florida coach is lying, and you’re annoyed when I say a Florida coach is telling the truth, isn’t it likely that the problem lies with y’all, not with me? Just a thought.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If that is the case...
then I read this
UGA President Michael Adams told the board that Evans submitted his resignation, “which I have accepted,” on Sunday.
as Evans quitting UGA instead of UGA dismissing Evans.
I don't think the point
of this article is necessarily to argue whether or not Jenkins was actually dismissed from the team. And it’s really not even about Coach Muschamp or his actions in this case. It’s more about the media trying to portray this “mutual decision” as something more than it really is. Calling this a “significant departure” from the previous regime is a little dramatic in my opinion. You knew as soon as the arrest happened that the comparison of punishment from Meyer to Muschamp was going to be the big storyline, and, like expected, the media is definitely making it out to be a bigger deal than it really is.
I think the saddest thing in all this, at least in the articles I’ve read, is that Muschamp is being praised for actions that should’ve just been expected.
by DawgGirl32 on Apr 27, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really, only time will tell
Meyer had many chances to do what should have been done. Yet, many of us, some Gator fans included, believe that Meyer was a lot more bold in the bark than the bite. This was Boom’s first chance to do what should be done and the result was achieved.
Let’s just move on from here. As much as it sucks for Gators, we all know that Muschamp will have more decisions to make regarding discipline in the future.
by skigator93 on Apr 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I believe, skigator93, . . .
. . . we have reached a reasonable consensus.
I agree with first and thom, above. You’re a good guy.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure Muschamp could give two butt squirts about what the Doogs think...
Or else he would have waited for them to fire Richt…
And honestly, both LSU and Ole Miss have skimpier drug policies than UF and that’s just in the SEC…as according to your link numerous other FBS schools don’t even have a drug policy but rather just let the head coach decide what action to take…
Having NO policy is WAY more lenient than having one that allows for 5 positives before dimissal…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
"The Doogs"?
Neil Patrick Harris as a teen doctor is one. Who’s the other?
Given your avatar and your screen name, gatorhippy, I’m not surprised you find Florida’s drug policy overly punitive! :)
Go 'Dawgs!
Actually, given the info provided by you...
I would be choosing FSU or another of the schools that have NO policy on drug use if I had my college sports days to relive…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Really?
Pretty sure Muschamp could give two butt squirts about what the Doogs think…
Can we please have civilized conversation without divulging into useless derogatory terms such as “Doogs”, “Gayturds”, “Mutts”, “UGAy”, “UGA (sic)”, etc? While I tend to agree with your stance, using terms like that tends to cheapen the message.
http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/
Can we at least keep talking about butt squirts?
"If there's one thing worse than chlamydia, it's Florida." ~ Emma Stone
I'm just going to give him the benefit of the doubt
And assume Doogs was a typo. Because, honestly, how is it insulting? It only makes me think of A Clockwork Orange (again as a misspelling) and The Demented Cartoon Movie.
Which is probably the first time A Clockwork Orange and The Demented Cartoon Movie have ever been referenced in the same sentence…
Doog = slang for time wasting...
Coined for UGA because travelling to J-Ville every year is essentially a waste of our precious Gator time when we all pretty much suspect already that the outcome will result in a UF victory…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Man, I hope we weren't this arrogant when we were beating y'all . . .
. . . as regularly as y’all are now beating us.
Don’t worry, though. I’m sure this will be the first trend that lasts forever.
Go 'Dawgs!
Given that you are wondering I'll assume that you weren't around for much of the'good times' for UGA...
And I’ll also assure that it was FAR worse…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
I was around for the tail end of it.
Which is worse is a matter of perspective to a large extent. The Internet magnifies things, too. I didn’t know any Florida folks back then, so there was no opportunity to be a jackass with silly comments about wasting my precious time in Jax even if I were so inclined.
I'll have to disagree there
The WLOCP is NEVER a waste of time. It’s one of the best rivalries and greatest weekends in all of sports. Friday night and Saturday pre-game are always the most fun because both teams’ fans are out in full force patying down and hoping for victory. Saturday is less so regardless of the outcome of the game because that is always when more of the trashy locals show up and if you have much left for Saturday night, then it just means that you didn’t do it right Friday night and Saturday!!
by skigator93 on Apr 27, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Plausible?
The Scene: Monday afternoon, about 4:20 P.M. The birds are chirping, it’s warm, and pleasant, with the oppressive Florida humidity still a few weeks away. The faint, sweet smell of gardenia wafts through the air…
Jenkins: “Hi, coach. Before you say anything I’ve made a decision. I think It’s time to take my talents to the next level. I just find that Gainesville can be a bit suffocating. I need a new town. I’m thinking…Cincinnati?”
Coach Muschamp: “I think that would be best. Good luck, son. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I must construct a carefully worded Tweet. Please leave the door open if you would.”
Jenkins: “Okay.”
Coach Muschamp: “Oh, and Janoris (pauses, looking melancholy) …you can keep your helmet.”
Jenkins: “Cool.”
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
It's very, very difficult to say what one means, apparently.
Here are some examples in addition to Kyle’s Mettenberger one:
… Montez Robinson … has been dismissed from the football team according to UGA head coach Mark Richt.
"Montez has not been able to conform to some conditions and stipulations that were placed on him as a result of previous off-field issues," said Richt. "I think this decision is in the best interest of everyone."
University of Georgia redshirt sophomore defensive end Michael Lemon has been dismissed from the Bulldog team according to UGA head coach Mark Richt.
"He’s been dismissed as a result of some poor decisions and conduct that is not in line with standards we have in place at Georgia," said Richt.
University of Georgia true freshman linebacker Demetre Baker has been dismissed from the Bulldog team by head coach Mark Richt following Baker’s alcohol-related arrest early Sunday morning.
Baker had not played in any games this season and was not a member of the travel team that played at Mississippi State Saturday.
“Demetre was fully aware of the possible consequences that could result from this type of poor judgment,” said Richt. “He’s now paying a severe penalty. We’ll assist him in finding a place to continue his education and football career and hope that he’s learned a valuable lesson from this mistake.”
(Emphasis added; all links to the official UGA site)
by NCT on Apr 27, 2011 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Much obliged.
For the record, the link to the announcement of Demetre Baker’s dismissal is dated September 26, 2010 . . . 25 days after Athens native, former Bulldog tennis player, University of Georgia alumnus, and previous Vince Dooley employee Greg McGarity officially left Jeremy Foley’s employ and took over as the athletic director at his alma mater. Evidently, he didn’t transplant the Gator Way in its entirety.
Go 'Dawgs!
I've had discussions about the presumed misleading nature of the official Gators' statements elsewhere.
I find I’m in the minority, and that fans of programs far and wide assume it’s a dismissal and that the statements from Muschamp and UF were diplomatic white lies and should not be taken literally.
My first thought was that my (and, perhaps, your) take on the language used comes from training and experience in the legal profession. Words actually matter all over the place in my world: contracts, statutes, testimony, etc.
Being expected to read between the lines and draw conclusions about intent in the face of contradictory expressed language is usually something I encounter only when dealing with women (on non-professional occasions — most of the women I deal with in my profession understand the concept of plain language in the work setting).
That was a horrible thing to write, I’m sure, and I feel very bad for having written it.
But when I started poking around to see what words the official UGA announcements said regarding the referenced former Bulldogs, it occurred to me that my take on the Gator language may be because I am accustomed to direct, unequivocal language from my head coach. Maybe it’s UGA that’s different, and I just hadn’t noticed that the rest of the world always dances around the subject.
by NCT on Apr 27, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Being expected to read between the lines and draw conclusions about intent in the face of contradictory expressed language is usually something I encounter only when dealing with women.
Brother, if you only knew………..ask podunkdawg
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
you know
i briefly considered objecting to that very phrase but considered my odds and decided against it.
I can bake like a demon.
You should always object
and if you are overruled, you should then strenuously object!
by skigator93 on Apr 27, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
very true
Evidently, he didn’t transplant the Gator Way in its entirety.
Some things, you just can’t box up and put on the Bekins truck.
I prefer to think that 18 years in the belly of the beast . . .
. . . could not overcome the 38 previous years of being raised right! :)
Go 'Dawgs!
Exactly.
However, there are places where one can spend 18 or so (aggregate) years and lose all the good UGA influence one had on departing Athens. I mean, several years in Tuscaloosa plus several more on the Plains can undo just about any good thing, apparently.
Yeah, I just saw that . . .
. . . at Alligator Army.
I take it back. Will Muschamp and the University of Florida are a bunch of damned dirty liars. I apologize for suggesting otherwise. :)
Seriously, why paint it as a mutual decision if it wasn’t? If you’re dismissing a guy, dismiss a guy. Why fake it and deprive yourself of the opportunity to send a healthy message? It just doesn’t make any sense.
Go 'Dawgs!
I somewhat agree here...
Because of the ambiguity of the original announcement, this is now a major story in the Florida media for two days instead of one. As Year 2 mentioned, this is part of a broader trend in corporate-ish PR these days. I prefer an old fashioned “dismissed” myself, but with that said, I don’t think anyone will remember how this happened two weeks from now, they’ll just remember the result.
I agree.
Isn’t that the problem, though? If the issue is Urban Meyer’s lax disciplinary standards, and the solution is for Will Muschamp to make a statement, this effort failed utterly. Again, I don’t think he needs to say, “Janoris Jenkins is a bad dude”; heck, I don’t know that he is a bad dude. He may just be a tad too fond of the reefer. If a dismissal was inevitable anyway, though, why not at least make a firm statement like the ones Mark Richt made above? “Janoris Jenkins has been dismissed from the Florida football team. While we wish him well and appreciate his service, his actions failed to meet the high expectations we place upon Gator players.” How hard is that to say? What harm could come from saying it, and couldn’t there be substantial benefits to saying it?
Go 'Dawgs!
Who knows? Maybe he got what he wanted
As you pointed out in your original post, Muschamp got his kudos from some big and well-respected media outlets, and he gave Jenkins the opportunity to remain quiet and make it seem like this ended with a cry and a hug. Is that a reach? Perhaps. But even if this was a PR misstep of sorts, I think it’s a very small one at its worst.
And as for the policies of his predecessor, I didn’t always agree with Meyer’s disciplinary decisions, but I think he had a genuine, heartfelt reason for doing things the way he did. I realize that making such a comment in this neck of the woods is likely to get a few sarcastic quips, but I honestly believe that the man is kept up at night thinking about Marty Johnson and Avery Atkins.
While I doubt that about Urban "You can't have your daddy back" Meyer specifically, . . .
. . . I don’t doubt it generally as a coach’s motivation. To take it out of the context of our rivalry, I believe Bobby Bowden tolerated much of the nonsense he did for noble reasons, based on a faith that taught him the value of second chances. While we may debate the motivations of particular coaches, I don’t doubt in principle that many coaches are tolerant of player misbehavior for reasons other than amoral opportunism.
Go 'Dawgs!
I think you are wrong, buddy...
There was a difference in the way that Meyer handled discipline before and after the Avery Atkins’ death…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Maybe so, . . .
. . . but Urban Meyer did not exactly come across as a fellow who was kept up nights thinking about other human beings.
Go 'Dawgs!
I'm really not trying to be flippant when I say this, but . . .
. . . the guy came across as an inhuman automaton programmed to win football games with no regard for any living organic creature.
I know that sounds like I’m being snotty, but, honestly, Spencer Hall praised him in much the same terms when describing the qualities that made Coach Meyer such an outstanding football coach (which, undeniably, he was).
The one thing he ever did that made him come across as a human being—-his 2009 retirement—-was recanted within 24 hours, after his wife publicly stated there was no chance he would change his mind and his daughter hugged him while exclaiming that she had gotten her daddy back. A fellow who went back to the grind after that is, to put it politely, not a fellow who comes across as being particularly mindful of people.
For the record, I don’t just say that because he coached for Florida. Billy Donovan has never come across that way. Steve Spurrier didn’t when he was in Gainesville, and Will Muschamp doesn’t now. Urban Meyer came across as a guy who saw the shortest distance between two points, and took it, and didn’t much care who was run over in the process.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Saban shares the same reputation
and it is more because they aren’t “aww shucks” media darlings than not actually being humane indivduals.
Some coaches are simply more accomodating to the media – Billy Donovan is a prime example. He can be asked the most idiotic question imaginable by the on-court reporter and he will always respond by mentioning the reporter’s name and then talk for a good while to make it sound like the question actually deserved a thoughtful response.
Meyer and Saban appear to be annoyed by reporters and just want to get back to work. Oh yeah, they both win an awful lot of big games too. This is what shapes the perception that they are both a-holes.
Spurrier has alwasy been a “tell-it-like-it-is” guy. Fans of other teams despised him anyway because he complained about not winning by 50 when he only won by 40. He was just being honest. I notice that Spurrier is much more liked now that he no longer leads the Gators and wins fewer games on average.
this is good
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Hmmm...
I can see where you both have valid points…
Settling for a mixture of the two…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Fair enough.
I would draw a distinction between Spurrier’s brutal honesty (“Something just happens to them at Georgia, I guess”) and Meyer’s combative style (“You can go sit in Seat 37F”: “If that were my son, we’d be going at it right now”), but I’ve never met either of them, so I can’t say for sure. Again, it’s all about how they come across; Urban Meyer may be a kind, gentle, caring person at home, but his handling of the 2009 retirement is not a point in his favor.
Go 'Dawgs!
Very different coaching personalities
Spurrier demands a lot from his players and he is not very nurturing toward them. He sat Danny boy during the UGA game because he complained he couldn’t grip the wet ball – “here, grip this instead then” (tossing him the clipboard).
Urban likened his players to family – it helped him during recruiting, but hurt him when his family members acted up or when he lashed out at the media in overprotecting them (both your examples above).
I'll take your word for it.
Again, his treatment of his actual family during the 2009 retirement episode does not speak well of being treated like family by Urban Meyer, but that could be an isolated incident.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 28, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not form our opinions of a public figure and his relationship with his family by what we read in the media. “I got my daddy back” was a dirty ploy by Jeremy Fowler to get the money quote from a coach’s daughter during an emotional time. I am surprised that Meyer didn’t deck Fowler during that on field incident the next year.
As I said, it could be an isolated incident.
Incidentally, and in all sincerity, what was “dirty” about it? Has there been some indication that she didn’t really say that?
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 28, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, for what it's worth, . . .
. . . at least one Meyer daughter is not exactly media-averse. I have no problem with a guy wanting to keep his private life private, but, when his wife and his daughter make public statements, we’re entitled to note them for the record.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 28, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
duly noted
but I don’t remember either of them calling a press conference to convey their thoughts. What was dirty about it is calling a man’s 18 year old daughter to get her thoughts and then posting a single quotation so as to convey a message other than what was stated. Sort of what Fowler did with the Thompson situation.
JMHO...but...
By putting it like he did he publicly gave Jenkins a way to begin repairing his image since by mutually agreeing to leave the team it would give the appearance that maybe this latest mistake had been a lesson learned and matured him…
Instead Jenkins chose to whine to the media that he essentially feels like he was treated unfairly or something showing that once again his selfish and immature attitude is very much still intact by acting like HE has been victimized…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
LMAO
Funny how last year Mr Swaggart was praising holy rollin Richt as being a steward of a clean program.
What was it, 12 Georgia players facing CRIMINAL charges last year ?
That, and still losing to Florida in their worst season since the pre Spurrier era.
"Mr Swaggart"? To what or whom are you referring?
I’m not aware of there having been twelve Georgia players facing criminal charges last year; there were several ticky-tacky arrests, but the only accusations that amounted to anything all resulted in half-season suspensions or outright and overt dismissals. No one affiliated with Georgia athletics who did anything with meaningful moral culpability (up to and including the athletic director) any longer has an Athens mailing address. My, but you Gators get uppity after your track record of dismissals increases to one, and that one only after three arrests, and even then done surreptitiously, so that the player had to be the one who revealed the reality publicly.
If you think 2010 was the Gators’ “worst season since the pre Spurrier era,” you should see a qualified therapist about recovering your missing memories from the Ron Zook era. For what it’s worth, incidentally, 2010 was the Bulldogs’ worst season since the pre-Spurrier era, too.
Go 'Dawgs!
Yes yes, keep talking about Florida’s spotty discipline problems during the Meyer era.
Look Caleb, we all remember your constant insults of Meyer, insulting his physical appearance and the likes. It happens when your obsessions gets smacked around. Your stance then was Richt is an honest to goodness holy rolling church goin family man who doesn’t have scoundrels.
The majority of Meyer’s scoundrels were drinking, fights and pot, but funny how the number was always mentioned.
12 arrests in one year for holy rollin Richt.
TWELVE IN ONE YEAR.
And yes, 2010 was the worst year since pre Spurrier and that includes the Zook era. Every single Gators’ fan will admit the same thing that, while the Zook era was infuriating because of how it dropped off after Spurrier, consistency (lack thereof) was the biggest problem under Zook because he couldn’t coach. Meanwhile, the 2010 edition was run by Steve Adazzio. The “Fire Steve Adazzio” site was more prevalent than the fire Ron Zook site in the day. And Adazzio was simply the “offensive coordinator.”
Of course, the Bulldogs actually beat Florida during the Zook era and yielded 34 points to the incompetent Adazzio offense, so it’s no surprise you’re trying to act like the Zook era was worse than the Adazzio era.
Do you realize that the 2010 era was so bad that a staggering amount of fans wanted Meyer, 2 years removed from a BCS title and one year removed from an SEC championship game appearance and Sugar Bowl win, canned ? Steve Adazzio is his friend and he was unwilling to do the tough thing about his friend so Gators fans wanted zombie Meyer gone. Most successful coach in the team’s history and they wanted him gone, Adazzio was that bad.
Think about that for a while, then come back and try to say 2010 wasn’t the worst year since the pre Spurrier era.
Oh and look at you acting like the Bulldogs didn’t have losing seasons under Goff and Donnan AFTER Spurrier arrived at Florida.
I guess the fact that the Bulldogs beat Zook and not Adazzio means the Zook era is worse in water skimming world.
by GatorPhoenix on Apr 28, 2011 5:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Who's Caleb? Who insulted Urban Meyer's physical appearance?
Who mentioned the number of Gator arrests?
Who denied that Georgia had losing seasons after 1989 but before 2010?
You are making absolutely no sense; you’re just flailing wildly and embarrassing yourself.
Go 'Dawgs!
1. You did when you called Meyer a Cardassian suggesting you simply meant it as a character hit, but then by not removing a post when someone compared the physical “resemblance.”
2. This site when Meyer ran the show.
3. Explain how last year’s losing season was worse than the losing seasons suffered under Goff and Donnan.
4. I’m not the one who suddenly suffered amnesia with regards to arrest comments, team records prior to 2010 and attacks on a coach’s appearance/character.
by GatorPhoenix on Apr 28, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
1. You can’t be serious. Not deleting a comment is synonymous with endorsing the comment? The mere fact that I haven’t deleted any of your comments shows how ridiculous this is.
2. Please provide me with a link to the posting upon this point that offended you. While I’m sure I mentioned it at some point, I don’t recall ever making a big deal out of the Gators’ arrest record under Urban Meyer. I certainly have devoted many, many more pixels to Georgia’s legal problems than to Florida’s.
3. The 1990, 1993, and 1996 Georgia teams were substantially less talented teams than the 2010 Bulldogs, and expectations for them were much lower. Moreover, none of those three teams suffered two losses as bad as last year’s Colorado and Central Florida losses, and none of those seasons left coaches on the proverbial “hot seat.” Do you really want to get into this? My whole point was that 2010 was a down year for both programs, so the “worst Florida team of the post-Spurrier” era meme doesn’t fly. If it will make you feel better for me to say that 2010 was one of the two or three worst seasons for Georgia and Florida alike in the last 20 years, fine. The point remains the same. I’m not trying to rank the “bottom ten” here; I’m just saying that both teams had subpar seasons in 2010.
4. Neither am I, as I believe my previous responses have illustrated.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 28, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's safe to say
that UGA and UF fans alike think that 2010 was a pretty terrible season for their teams. I mean, the Cocks won the division for pete’s sake by beating a Florida team that could have clinched the division that game despite 3 conference losses. Now THAT is a bad year.
Precisely.
We can debate where both teams’ seasons rank in the continuum of the last 20 years, but both had one of their worst seasons in a while. That was my whole point.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 28, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
About #2...
I am a firm believer that TKK wouldn’t be doing his job if articles he posted about my alma mater DIDN’T offend me in some manner…
After all it’s a Doog site…if I want commentary that doesn’t offend me in regards to UF, I’ll stick to Alligator Army…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
This is all I'm saying.
For what it’s worth, though, it isn’t my goal to offend, although I understand why, and sometimes don’t mind if, I do.
If we could lose the “Doog” thing, I’d be obliged. I may speak ill of your program and your coach(es), but I call Florida “Florida” and the Gators “Gators.” I’d appreciate the same consideration in return. Thanks in advance.
Go 'Dawgs!
See...when you put it that way...all polite and stuff...
It makes it hard for me to say no…
Those boys over at TommyFlop could learn a thing or two from you Georgia boys…
Though my hatred of everything Nole is genetic…kinda like the way clubs hate baby seals…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Hold on...let me get this straight
Will Muschamp was a “damn good dawg” until he came to UF. Now he is beneath contempt. Greg McGarity was a “damn good dawg” until he came to UF and then he became beneath contempt. Jeremy Foley is a mealy mouthed piece of excrement but he is worshipped enough by all Dawgs to hire his wing man. Lordy Lordy it’s Greg McGarity. He is once more a “damn good dawg”. Spurrier was a piece of whatever, Meyer was a piece of whatever. Richt is a bolt of lightening straight from the hand of God with never an ambiguous word. All UF players (including Tebow) are pieces of…you know and all UGA layers are pure and wholesome student athletes. All this is being written by grown, professional men. I think there is entirely too much elbowing going on under the same damn blanket. Act your respective ages.
Apparently,
They don’t teach logic or any kind reasoning course at Florida. I always heard they have a good law school in Gainesville, but they apparently do not do a very good job teaching undergrads how to offer a decent argument.
Where is Jeremy Foley characterized as anything like a mealy mouthed piece of excrement? To the extent that Muschamp is no longer considered a Damn Good Dawh is not because he got a job at UF but because he insulted his alma mater entirely unnecessarily.
If it makes you feel better to ascribe positions to Georgia fans that they do not hold just so you can consider those fictitious positions unreasonable, have at it.
But it’d be nice if you did it somewhere else.
by NCT on Apr 27, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I should have read your reply before offering my own, NCT.
You said all that needed to be said, and I thank you for it.
I regret it if I came on too strong in my 9:03 comment below, but it really irks me when someone who reads the site regularly offers broadsides about the lack of nuance. I may be many things, and wrong very well could be one of them, but a lack of nuance is not exactly one of the faults I think it is fair to find with this community.
Go 'Dawgs!
Well, to be fair...
… I ascribe the quality of “beneath contempt” to all people associated with Florida athletics merely because they are Gators. It also naturally follows that “No longer a Gator” = “No longer beneath contempt.”
But then, I just hate Florida more than the average person.
(And just in case renegator hasn’t come down off of whatever he was taking when he wrote the comment above, my comment is meant to be tongue-in-cheek.)
by vineyarddawg on Apr 27, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Find me any Georgia fan anywhere who ever said a negative word about Greg McGarity . . .
. . . while he was working in Gainesville. I, for one, never heard one, and I certainly never uttered one.
You’ve got some nerve, renegator, coming around here and telling us to act our ages when you’re older than most of us and you left a comment as childish and lacking in nuance as that.
To be fair, renegator, I give you credit for enough intelligence to know that you what you just wrote was sheer nonsense, as an even cursory search through the site archives around here would make perfectly plain.
Go 'Dawgs!
Being fully cognizant of your current role as nuance sheriff,
I will apeal to the powers that be at UF to run all further correspondences through TKK before posting to the unread. My whole point was that there is not one whit of difference between the moral positions of either program. I understand that it is the duty of UF to become the doormat of the SEC to escape the vitriole of the Ga. faithful but hopefully, that will not happen. It is not my wish to be a troll or the ugly neighbor but it seems that there is a distinct lack of charity within these confines towards anything Gator. That is to be expected in interplay between rivals but it seems harsh to make character judgements about people you don’t know. It’s all hoots and giggles anyway so have a good night Jawga.
As the University of Florida athletic department would put it, . . .
. . . you and I have come to an agreement that you are wrong.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Apr 27, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, wait just a minute.
… there is a distinct lack of charity within these confines towards anything Gator.
…
(blink)
…
Really? You expect there to be an abundance of charity on a Georgia Bulldogs-themed blog regarding the Florida Gators?
(I hate Florida.)
by vineyarddawg on Apr 27, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
Die.
:)
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 16
by delicious.crab on Apr 29, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that these boys necessarily want UF to be the SEC doormat...
They just would like UF to go back to being their doormat…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
That's true, . . .
. . . but that wasn’t what we were discussing.
Unless, of course, you were using one clearly-worded phrase to mean something completely different, which at least would have the virtue of consistency with the apparent policy of the Florida athletic department.
Go 'Dawgs!
Nah...just piling on some sarcasm...
With a hint of truth sprinkled in…
So yeah…maybe…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Fair enough.
I’ll be the first to acknowledge we liked y’all a lot better when we were going 15-4 against you than we have since we’ve gone 3-18 against you! :)
Go 'Dawgs!
The feeling is assuredly (absurdly?) likewise...
Funny how that works…
You may not like what I have to say...but somebody has to say it...
Crisis averted (or deferred)?
To borrow from myself and a comment I made on edsbs a few weeks ago, it was starting to stink like a recruiting site message board in here. I’m all for hate and jibes, for sure, but let’s make them accurate. Or, at least, clever.
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