Why Retaining the Eight-Game SEC Schedule is in the Georgia Bulldogs' Interests
As hailtogeorgia noted in this morning’s Dawg Bites, Seth Emerson recently interviewed Greg McGarity, which produced the following exchange:
QUESTION: Would going to nine conference games work back into it at some point?
ANSWER: No. That has not even been discussed, and I don’t think it will even be brought back up. I think schools have already scheduled out as far as 2016, so having to break those contracts ... a lot of money (is) run up in liquidated damages if either school pulls out of a game. I will never say never, but right now, there has been no discussion of any nine-game schedule.
QUESTION: With all this going on have you had any time to work on any non-conference future scheduling?
ANSWER: No, because we want to get this (settled). Then once we get it settled, we can crank it back up once we get (settled) on where we stand for the next few years.
QUESTION: I know scheduling the Boise State game, so much of the emphasis was getting a game in the Georgia Dome. The results notwithstanding, is that something that you want to continue to do if possible?
ANSWER: We’d look at it down the road. But we have Clemson in ’13 and ’14 and we have Ohio State in ’20 and ’21. So could there be a way between 2014 and 2020? Who knows?
I agree with Paul Westerdawg that the SEC will keep the eight-game conference schedule until current contracts have run their courses before switching to a nine-game slate. This is a prudent business move by a league that has been careful to dot the I’s and cross the T’s in the process of expansion, which is why I take issue with Senator Blutarsky’s contention that “a fourteen-team SEC has to go to a nine-game conference schedule to preserve a passing familiarity between schools in opposing divisions,” even if it means “having to stroke a check to East Cupcake A & M because the fans might want to see Georgia play Alabama more often than Georgia Southern.”
As McGarity notes, though, the temporary preservation of the eight-game SEC slate will do as much to protect the Georgia Bulldogs’ upcoming dates with the Clemson Tigers and the Ohio St. Buckeyes as it will to safeguard home outings against Division I-AA schedule fodder. Frankly, there are only two conference opponents I would rather see Georgia play than Clemson, so, absolutely, I’m willing to trade more frequent dates with Western Division teams in order to ensure more frequent dates with a nearby rival the Red and Black have been playing since 1897 . . . longer, in other words, than all but two Western Division teams, and longer than all but four Southeastern Conference opponents overall.
Besides, since when is “preserv[ing] a passing familiarity between schools in opposing divisions” the historical norm in the league? When the SEC last expanded in 1992, each team had only one game per autumn against a rotating opponent from the other division, though this was changed after a few years, much as the current arrangement is apt to be. The heritage of the conference, moreover, has been one that featured infrequent meetings between schools that were not natural rivals with one another. In the 59 seasons between 1933, the year the league was founded, and 1991, the final year prior to the advent of divisional play, Georgia met the LSU Tigers 19 times, the Mississippi St. Bulldogs 16 times, and the Tennessee Volunteers ten times. Frequent face-offs against unfamiliar teams simply are not among the SEC’s defining traditions.
Finally, not for nothing, but, at the moment, the West is stronger than the East. To some extent, this is cyclical, but the West is aided by a number of factors, and I’m not just talking about oversigning. Unless such occasional tilts as Ole Miss-Memphis and LSU-Tulane are to be treated as serious series, no team in the SEC West has a meaningful perennial out-of-conference rival.
There are, though, four such high-profile rivalries in the SEC East: Georgia has the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, the Florida Gators have the Florida St. Seminoles, the Kentucky Wildcats have the Louisville Cardinals, and the South Carolina Gamecocks have Clemson. A nine-game conference schedule means two-thirds of the East will be assured of playing ten serious games every year, leaving just two spots on the slate to fill with patsy opposition. Giving the West an additional tune-up game provides that division with a competitive disadvantage---compare the Arkansas Razorbacks’ 2011 non-conference schedule to the Red and Black’s, and tell me the Hogs didn’t get a boost in their bowl berth from playing more weak sisters---and it is not in our interests to afford an extra edge to the division that has won four of the last five SEC Championship Games and taken the last three by a combined 130-40 margin. Adding a ninth conference contest would tilt even more the playing field McGarity is trying to level, which is why our athletic director deserves praise, not criticism, for defending the principle Dick Van Patten articulated: eight is enough.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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Your fascination with Clemson notwithstanding, I still don’t understand what keeps us from having both the 9 game schedule and the occasional large OOC game? That would leave us with 3 OOC games a year (subtract one for the perennial game with the NATS), and we’ve got 2 open spots. 1 home game against a patsy, 1 home/home deal with some decent school (yeah, we could make an excuse for Clemson here, although “decent” is a bit of a stretch).
I would much, much rather play Alabama, LSU, Arkansas and occasionally TAMU than games with Louisville or some other Big East baby. And just because the West schedules like they’re afraid of getting their lunch money taken (save for LSU), doesn’t mean we should.
DawgSports/Falcaholic/Talkin' Chop
Agreed. Two Saturdays ago notwithstanding, I enjoy playing LSU, and I don’t like the idea of classes of Bulldog players coming and going without playing against them. More than that, some wouldn’t even play on a team with anyone who has, as I believe the idea is to continue to play home-and-homes in consecutive years. At that point, it’s kind of hard to feel like a conference. And since I think it’s a bad idea, the argument that it’s more traditional doesn’t really make me feel any better about it, as I’d rather learn from what I consider to be past mistakes.
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." AJ's one-handed catch at Colorado
The thing is, it's not about UGA, its about the conference.
And everyone is going to have to pay off someone. There’s a reason Coastal Carolina signed up to get beat to heck. They got a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I wouldn’t want even UGA, with one of the larger war chests, to have to pay millions just to have 9 games. Wasted money. This will mostly all be settled by 2016 – I am sure they will talk about a long term plan to go to 9 games.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
A 9-game conference schedule has to happen at some point, but it may put the Cocktail Party in jeopardy. Including Tech, we would have 10 games scheduled every year, with only 4 at home every other year. Of the other 2 games, that means that we would have to have at least 1 at home every year, and both at home every other year, just to get to 6 home games. And selttling for just 6 home games every year could put us at a disadvantage from a ticket revenue standpoint. Teams almost always have 7 home games and sometimes as many as 8.
Kyle - you're a funny guy. I quoted "Kyle will like this", lol.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
Someone who's a bit more mathematically inclined would need to confirm it
But I think with the 6-1-1 setup, we can’t fully rotate through the other West opponents without sometimes having to tweak our schedule by playing an opponent, likely Auburn, in the same stadium two years in a row (and this would go for every single team). This assumes that we want every school to have four home games and four away games.
If the permanent rivals stay on the same rotation, UGA, UK, and Vandy will all be playing away next year. SCAR, UF, and Tenn will all be hosting; I think Mizzou will host too since aTm hosted that game this season. That should mean that UGA, Vandy, and UK all host the rotating West opponent next year while SCAR, UF, and Tenn (and Mizzou) are away. In 2013, that puts us away and the SCAR group at home, and that doesn’t let us rotate properly with West opponents.
Now, that can be rectified by either screwing around with schedules every couple of years to cause the double up. The only way to prevent that regular tweaking is to cause one of those groups (ours or SCAR’s) to get two seasons in a row hosting the permanent West rival. That would then put all rotations on the same cycle so that when one rotating opponent series ends, we get a new one. However, without this double up, the rotating doesn’t work on an 8 game SEC schedule.
So yeah. Maybe we host Auburn again next year. Or SCAR, Tenn, and UF all have to play away again next year while we play at Auburn too.
The 984 Has Spoken!
by The984 on Dec 12, 2011 10:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I am willing to bet, they have charted out 10 (hell, 100) schedules and that is what this week is about. Picking one.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
The reason I fundamentally disagree with this..
Given that one of Georgia’s conference games is always played in Jacksonville, an 8 game SEC schedule dictates that in even years, the Dawgs only play three home conference games. (The same, obviously, also holds true for the Gators).
A 9 game SEC schedule allows UGA to balance out its home/away/neutral splits to 4/4/1.
Don't forget the Tech game.
Currently with 8 conference games, adding Tech as the 9th, that always gives us a 4/4/1. That leaves us 3, of which only 2 must be at home to get us to the minimum of 6 home games. Going to 9 in the conference, plus Tech as a 10th, would give us, 4/5/1 and 5/4/1 on an alternating basis, That only leaves us 2 every other year, both of which must be at home to get to 6. Of course, if we alternate an 11th home and home properly, we would always have 6. But that means we would never get to 7, which I am sure the athletic department would like to do at least some to keep us on an equal footing from a ticket revenue standpoint. Some SEC teams frequently have 7 home games, and occasionally 8.
I agree with you on having space to play marquee out of conference games
But as I’ve expressed here before, my great fear is that if we are limited to two interdivision games a year, the sentiment of a majority of the conference will be to drop the permanent rivalry, because it just doesn’t matter to most teams. I understand that the early years of divisional play only had one rotating opponent, but my response to that is 1) we changed that because we didn’t like it, and 2) the problem is even worse when you’re rotating through six teams instead of five. I think it’s easier for UGA, Auburn, UT, and Alabama to continue to insist on our storied rivalries when doing so doesn’t prevent LSU from visiting Athens (or Florida to Tuscaloosa, etc.) more than once a decade.
I haven’t done the math, but in another thread someone said 9 games can’t work with 14 teams. But The984 says here that eight doesn’t work either. So I don’t know about all that. But at least for me, and I assume for most of us, and I know for you, keeping the Auburn game protected is a crucial issue. (Seth’s interview, unfortunately, does not assure me that McGarity is solidly in that camp.) I would love to get back to playing Clemson and as many decent OOC teams as McGarity will allow, but we’ve only got so many weeks.
I knew I should've billed this as a "Kyle Gets Contrary" segment.
This is why LD should’ve nicknamed me “the Pope” instead of “the Mayor.” Like the Pope, I’m well-liked and highly-regarded, but no one ever agrees with me about anything! :)
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
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Simple Solution
Go to a 9 game conference schedule and drop the NATS as a permanent game. Let them rotate on the schedule every few years. We could selectively schedule them or Clemson in years where we have an easier SEC slate. Oh and we would only play them in Athens, no home and home.
by RocketDawg on Dec 13, 2011 9:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is the second time I've seen this posted.
Why would we want to drop them from our schedule? To me, dropping Tech from the schedule isn’t and shouldn’t be an option. They’re the other major in-state school, and we get to beat them down on a yearly basis. Why is this a bad thing?
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 13, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
I'm wondering why we even list them as something other than a New Mexico St style gimme
(17-1-3)
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I am half way kidding when I say drop the NATS
on the other half that is not kidding my reasoning is this. This game along with the WLOCP ties our hands on scheduleing. In years where we are the home team in Jax we have to schedule an extra cupcake game at home to have six true home games. Add in that we have a home and home with our in state rival (that happens to be in another conference) and nine conference games will spell the end of ANY quality OOC scheduling. We can drop Tech as a permanent opponent and use that slot to schedule a quality OOC opponent 3 out of every 4 years with the 4th year of each cycle being Tech. We go head to head on them in recruiting on some athletes but as a rule the guys we really want in state we are fighting Bama, Auburn, Tennessee, S. Carolina, UF, Clemson and FSU for them.
Not to mention that they are insufferable when they happen to win and you get no credit for beating them. Not to mention that as long as they run that HS offense our D Lineman risk career ending knee injuries from their cheating chop blocks.
Just a thought…
by RocketDawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let Tech drop us, as their fans are starting to want
if we dropped them, they’d have a reason to crow.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Why drop tech?
Picture McGarity calling up tech and saying, “Look, we own you by a quarter-century’s worth of games and I think we have clearly made our point. I guess we have just lost our interest in you. Really, it’s not you, its us…really. We’ll give you a call if we can get some time in our schedule and maybe we can get together then. Okay?”
The reaction would give us years of great laughs.
by Dawgy45 on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That might be the first time Tech ever hears "it's not you, it's us"
The 984 Has Spoken!
by The984 on Dec 13, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would love it if he called them up and said the games will now alternate between Sanford Stadium and the GA Dome
50/50 split of tickets in the dome. Take it, or we’re dropping you.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
by leedawg on Dec 13, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
true, but that's still only about 25-30k fans
at the dome, we would get our half, around 38k, plus we’d probably end up with another 10-12k of their tickets too
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Hey, if they wanted to play Georgia annually, they should have stayed in the SEC.
/tea-sip’ed
(Or for those of you not familiar with Aggie terminology… /Texas’ed)
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Dec 13, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why do inter-divisional opponents necessarily have to be set by the SEC?
Prior to 1991 it sounds as though each SEC school had some say over which of the other conference teams they played. There was no set rotation, and thus why UGA played UT, LSU, and MSU so infrequently. Why not go back to that style of scheduling for inter-divisional opponents? IE: Let the Eastern schools negotiate with the Western schools individually to determine how often they’d play. UGA would want to pick Auburn and Ole Miss every year, but might occasionally drop Ole Miss to pick up a home/home series with LSU or Alabama. Everyone from the West might want to play Vandy and Kentucky every year, but those two Eastern schools would also have their own agenda and wouldn’t want to lock themselves into playing LSU and Alabama every year, so a natural rotation would likely develop. Those with important rivalries like UGA/AU and UA/UT could be satisfied along with those who have no real inter-divisional rivals.
There is no “need” to go to a 9-game conference season provided everyone realizes there is no “need” to play every inter-divisional opponent regularly just because you’re in the same conference.
by Alkaline5 on Dec 13, 2011 9:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's an interesting idea,
but I don’t think it would ever work. For precisely the reasons you listed (teams scheduling other teams due to ulterior motives) it would be a huge mess. Think of all the schedule complaints we heard from folks this year in regards to Georgia’s weak conference schedule…then imagine that on a yearly basis. The current defense is basically the “them’s the breaks” defense, where the conference schedule is what it is, and it will inevitably be more difficult for some than for others…but on a rotating, arbitrary basis. To start bringing the human element into that when the quality of competition will decide who represents the divisions in the conference championship game, however, would be ill advised, in my opinion.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 13, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Supply and Demand
I think a problem-in addition to the scheduling balance htg mentioned-is that if you have every school in the west wanting to play Kentucky or Vandy (or likewise Ole Miss/Miss St), then you’ll risk money coming into play. I think if a school like LSU starts paying a school like Kentucky to come to Baton Rouge to play, then you corrupt the system.
Even if the conference sets rules against it, it could still happen indirectly.
I think the 9 game schedule is inevitable, despite McGarity's recent comments
It is for the better of the league if there is a rotation of 2 games from the East and West. Georgia vs LSU, Florida vs Alabama, these types of games draw huge ratings, which the SEC then uses to draw more $$$ from the tv networks when it comes time to renegotiate television contracts. At the same time, the traditional rivalries like Bama UT and UGA Auburn should also be preserved. For us to go to Baton Rogue or Tuscaloosa once in a 12 year span is ridiculous. SEC football has become the dominant force in all of college football, and that stems largely from the changes Roy Kramer made in the early 90’s with the SEC Championship game, and the 2 spot rotation on the schedule of teams in the other division, among others.
I think there is some merit to the argument that the 9 game schedule will be tougher on us, Fla, SC, and Ky because we also have to play a legit OOC game in addition to the SEC schedule. I would certainly like to see Mike Slive mandate the other schools in the conference to step up their OOC schedules to be more on par with what teams like LSU and us scheduled this past season. However, I don’t think a 9 game conference slate should or would stop us from playing other marquee OOC games like Clemson and Ohio St. You could certainly argue that it would be tough to go undefeated playing a 9 game schedule, plus Tech and another big team, leaving only 1 “cup cake” game on our schedule, and you would likely be right. However, if we went undefeated, there would be no question who the best team in the country would be. Also, in years like this one, when it is hard to tell all the 1 loss teams apart, it would certainly play to our benefit should we have a loss, being very likely that we would have played the toughest schedule in the country.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Baton Rouge and Tuscaloosa are one thing,
but how do you feel about Starkville and Fayetteville? That gate swings both ways, so that it ends up being a wash anyway. And that’s on top of our bi-annual trips to the Columbias (SC and MO). One-size-fits-all solutions don’t work in politics and I don’t like them in my college football, either.
I actually like going to Starkville
and it’s still only once every 6 years we would go to those places. Other conferences play 9 conference games, and it’s not a problem for them. Similar to what was said below, if we’re only playing these teams twice in a 12 year span, it will feel like we have 2 separate conferences that on occasion get together and play the other
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
We could get rid of our traditional rivals...
That would free up a rotation spot.
/ducksandcovershead
GATA!
If I'm not mistaken...
that was a dealbreaker for several on even voting for the 14th. If Alabama/Tennessee, among other cross-rivalries, were going to go away, they’d have not voted to bring in another member.
Play 9, even if it does mean we have a rough road every year with 9 conference games + Tech. Then try and plan bigger non-conference games in years like this past one where we got the two Mississippi schools to avoid the “They ain’t played nobody PAWWWLL!” trolling.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I believe your first paragraph is correct.
If it hadn’t been understood that the permanent cross-division rivalries would be preserved, what would have been the point of putting Missouri in the East? The whole reason for putting Missouri in the East was to keep from having to move Auburn over, thus splitting up the Iron Bowl, thus ending the Third Saturday in October as an annual rivalry.
If permanent cross-divisional rivals weren’t a part of the plan, it would’ve made more sense to do some shifting to preserve geographic sense. Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, and Tennessee could’ve comprised the East; Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Vanderbilt could’ve comprised the West; every team could’ve played the other six teams in its division and two rotating teams (one home and one away) from the opposite division, with no permanent cross-division rivalries; and the only long-term established rivalry that would’ve been lost would have been Tennessee-Vanderbilt.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Dec 13, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
The East would be a battle royale in that
South Carolina, Kentucky, and maybe even Tennessee may as well just suit up as sacrificial lambs against those powers.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't serious
About dropping the traditional-rival games.
Heck, each conference has permanent cross-division rivalry games and the Pac-12 has two.
Speaking of the Pac-12, they play a nine-game slate each year. The Trojans also play Notre Dame each season. Thus, the problems referenced in this thread are the same for them, now, too.
GATA!
One caveat...
The Pac-10/Pac-12 has had a nine-game slate for years. Thus, the conference didn’t have the problem of eliminating games already scheduled.
GATA!
Precisely.
They weren’t increasing; they were there already. No one had to back out of any existing contracts.
Also, prior to Colorado’s admission to the league, Southern California was the only team in the Pac-10 with a meaningful perennial out-of-conference rival. Big difference.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Dec 13, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
SC has a major out-of-conference rival?
What major, nationally relevant team do they play every year?
(You answer had better be “none.” Though, for the record, Stanford plays that team frequently, too.)
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Dec 13, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I meant meaningful to them, . . .
. . . not to the rest of us.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
Ah, indeed.
Well, then… carry on.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Dec 13, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
play 9
anything else and we’re basically two conferences. Its starting to feel that way as it is. In the SECCG, I felt like everybody was rooting against us. Of course all the east teams were, but because of the West’s unending (2 years) dominance over the east, most fans of the West that I knew were pulling for LSU for SEC West solidarity. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve started to hate the West. If it stays at 8 games, expect things to get polarized.
by Mark Mandingo on Dec 13, 2011 10:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Easy way to play nine conference games a year
And play an additional SEC West foe: play in the SEC Championship each season.
Problem solved.
Seriously, the more I think about it, the more I’m in favor of an eight-game SEC slate. First, the SEC is the best conference; it just is. Why should a team have to play TEN SEC teams each season when competing for the mNC? That’s craziness.
I don’t mind occasionally playing the West teams if it means we don’t have to have play TEN SEC schools plus GT each season we are competing for the mNC…
GATA!
by Jman781 on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
As shown by Bama this year...
You don’t currently have to play 9 SEC games to make it into the mNC.
by AcworthDawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Bama doesn't but WE do
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
by leedawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or, we just expand to 16
not sure which other two we’d add, but expand to 16, and keep the 8 game schedule using 4 permanent and 4 rotating games. Our permanent would be Florida, Auburn, South Carolina, and Tennessee.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I believe that is the ultimate endgame.
Staying at 14 makes little sense. That’s why I think the solution will be to keep the eight-game conference schedule (with one permanent and one rotating cross-division rival) for a four- or five-year period, until existing out-of-conference contracts are up, then switch to the nine-game conference schedule, much as the last expansion started out with one rotating cross-division rival and later increased to two. By the time we get to the scheduled increase to nine conference games, we’ll be at 16 teams, anyway, and it will all be different, and having changed too much too soon will have been for naught. Better to take it gradually.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I believe this as well.
Completely hypothetical here: if we pick up 2 more teams that are farther west than Bama/Auburn, it would seem to make sense to bring Bama/Auburn to the East. That would take care of all the older traditional rivalries that are currently across divisional lines, moving them all to the East, and Mizzou to the West. 7 games in the East, and 2 rotating against the West.
I know geography would make teams like FSU and Clemson seem logical, but logic seems to have left the picture of realignment. I would like to see Oklahoma and Texas in my ideal play for the greatest conference of all time, but I doubt that would happen, especially Texas.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
by leedawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But at 16, there's no real point to go 9 games
that is if you just use the 4 and 4 set up for 8 games (4 permament, 4 rotating).
Although who those other 2 might be, I’d have no clue. With the canibalism going on, there’s no little guys left, so you’d have to poach a pair of Big East, ACC, or Big 12 teams.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's fair if you're going to use a divisional format to decide who goes to the championship game
and not have everyone play everyone in their own division. I could be wrong here, but the wording of the provision in the NCAA rulebook that allows for a championship game says something about having round robin divisional play as a requirement for a conference to have a championship game.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Like that stops us
we can petition for an exemption, and if not tell the NCAA to shove it and do it anyway. What are they gonna do? They need us more than we need them, and if they blinked, that might be the impetus for a true 4-5 super conference realignment in college athletics and the NCAA gets left in the dust as the power conferences form their own oversight board.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
In all honesty, I would love if 60-75 schools broke off from the NCAA and made their own organization
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
by leedawg on Dec 13, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I got a post coming in the offseason, and this is part of it. We need to clip about 30 Div 1A schools.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
You can't spell "secession" without S-E-C.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Dec 13, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Then this is me waiting patiently on the state of South Carolina
maybe Clemson will go undefeated next year, but get left out of the game…
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
One of the MAC divisions doesn't play a intra-divisional round robin
But the NCAA may not care because it’s the MAC.
The 984 Has Spoken!
At 16 teams I like the idea of 4 pods.
3 pod-teams, 3 permanent from each pod, and then 3 rotating. Dividing them up would be tricky though. But then you would have 9 games and need a semi-final to decide SECCG participants…. that would get hectic. And at that point just tell everyone to FOFF and crown yourselves SEC World Champions.
I feel sorry for the commissioner and the AD’s. This is going to get messy.
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
15 teams, 3 pods, 5 teams in each pod
Play four pod mates. Play two permanent inter-poddual teams. Rotate two teams, one rotation per pod. Wildcard team in the semifinals.
The 984 Has Spoken!
by The984 on Dec 13, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
having a wildcard team is going to get messy.
But the scheduling of 3 pods of Five would be significantly easier to manage.
- FOW
by skandrewj62j on Dec 13, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Think of the marketing possibilities.
Who wouldn’t want to buy cute “Four Peas in a Pod” T-shirts?
by Cherokee's Grip on Dec 13, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Precisely, Mr. Sanchez.
That’s my point: I don’t think we’re sticking with 14 teams for any appreciable length of time. That being the case, it makes sense to me to stay at eight games, even if (nominally) only temporarily, to give existing non-conference contracts time to run their courses. Announce that we’ll keep an eight-game conference schedule with one rotating cross-division rival through, say, 2016, at which point we’re scheduled to go to a nine-game conference schedule with two rotating cross-division rivals.
If, as I believe will happen, the SEC has expanded to 16 teams by 2016, we simply rearrange the existing eight-game conference schedule. If we jump straight to nine games in 2012, we’ll wind up scaling back from a nine-game to an eight-game schedule within four or five years. Why rock the boat? Schedule it for the future, and, if it happens, you’re ready for it, and no one has to pay any liquidated damages for breaching their contracts; if it doesn’t happen, you carry on with business as usual. If Greg McGarity is right that a nine-game slate hasn’t been discussed, that’s why: Mike Slive knows we’re never going to get to that point.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Dec 13, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
On that first paragraph
you’re tell tale sign in to what comes out of this is how we all schedule going forward. If it’s 2014, or 2015, and teams haven’t signed any contracts for ooc games, that tells you we’re going to 9 games. If they do, then 8 is enough.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Debbie Downer
I’m a debbie-downer of sorts on this whole thing. As the king conference of college football, I believe we jumped the gun on expansion and will have nostalgic regret about this whole thing when we go the better part of a decade without seeing the LSU Tigers or Alabama Crimson Tide Between the Hedges. We already have arguably the most boring and mundane home schedule, what with the Florida game being in Jacksonville. We’re getting a double dose of boredom and monotony in my opinion. Less conference opponent rotation and OOC scheduling with all eyes towards getting to the BCS championship game.
I know the goal is to win a national title, but in a sport with no playoff, I think you really sell your fanbase short if that becomes the only important thing. How many times did we hear: "we want to win because its [Florida, Georgia Tech, Boise State in the dome, etc] ? Are we now going to say, "we want to win because it’s the Citadel ?"
As Georgia fans, we’re often criticized by our houndstooth brethren for being completely satisfied with 10-2 seasons, while being on the outside-looking-in for the BCS title. I’d rather confirm that criticism if that means having a regular season we enjoy while playing the likes of Clemson, Boise State, or Ohio State. If playing more interesting games means 1 less national titles over a [x] year period, I’m honestly indifferent to it. I’d rather see us beat Clemson 31-0 in 120 degree Death Valley heat, while risking injury and defeat, than play New Mexico State ever again. These are important moments that make UGA football what it is. January 8th in Tempe/Nola/Miami/Pasadena is not the only important thing. Maybe this is crazy talk, but I think it’s crazy to pin all your hopes on 1 single game that, regardless of scheduling, takes a little luck to get into. We also saw in LSU the idea that you can play the best and still get there. Are your odds longer ? Sure, but I ask again, what are we really after here ?
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
by esquiredawg on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I like this...
A lot.
Given that I’m 30, most of my memories are of regular season games. If entertainment is the most important, than you’re 100% correct: weak OOC games and the lack of playoffs means boring season games.
Look at the home games next season: Buffalo, FAU, Georgia Southern, Ole Miss, Vandy, UT, and GT. Ugh.
Unfortunately, especially if we expand to nine games, you’ll see schedules like the above. Why? Because we want to schedule a boring slate every year on the off-chance we’ll vie for a National Championship every now and then.
I’m with you. I’d rather see guaranteed games against Boise State, Ohio State, and Clemson.
GATA!
my goodness next year's home schedule is just awful
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Yeah
Those games don’t even look worth the price of the tickets.
That schedule won't stand though.
There won’t be any OOC changes, but the SEC teams we’ll face will change. Also, I love the Georgia Southern scheduling piece…it’s scheduled the week before we face Tech. Need a good warmup to prepare for Paul Johnson’s triple option attack? How about playing Jeff Monken’s triple option attack the week before? Great move, McGarity.
by hailtogeorgia on Dec 13, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the only change from this year's conference slate will be dropping Miss St and adding Mizzou
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
In my opinion
We’ll drop @Alabama.
We’re currently scheduled to play Ole Miss, @ Alabama, and @Auburn (we don’t play Miss. State next season). Given that we played at Ole Miss last season, it only makes sense to have them play in Athens next season.
Thus, @Bama will become @Mizzou, which enhances the winnability of our schedule.
That said, anything could happen.
GATA!
But...
We’re gonna win the National Championship, let by Heisman winning-QB Murray!
Seriously, the proponents of cupcake scheduling better pray we win it all next year, for this is their dream schedule.
As referenced above, LSU managed to go unbeaten playing West Virginia and Oregon out of conference, as well as UGA, Auburn, Florida, Bama, and Arkansas in conference…It’s a crapshoot regardless of the schedule.
GATA!
the only way this schedule could be better, assuming a Miss St for Mizzou swap
is if we were playing SC at home
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
What I'm hearing out of everyone's comments
is that the only interesting conference opponents we can play at home are SC, Bama, and LSU*. And besides those options we are apparently in a conference full of teams we don’t care about and who make our schedule look like a mid-major’s schedule.
*Florida doesn’t count since it’s always a neutral site.
I think everyone like the Auburn game as well
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
We still have UT at home and home.
So, that leaves SC, UT, Auburn as annual teams for home and home. Soon to be Mizzou.
Then every Myan quadrangle we get Bama or LSU or Arky.
I think for home games its just bad timing on the calendar. Some years will be better than others.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
Is it jumping the gun
if in 5 years, they’ve gone to 4 or 5 super conferences as the tide seems to be leaning toward?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
The Boise State game, for example
Is it plausible that scheduling Boise State cost us, not just one, but two losses ? Heck yes, when you consider the preparation time and physical wear and tear that Boise took away from South Carolina, as opposed to playing somebody like the Kent State Golden Flashes. Would I rather have played a cupcake than Boise State ? Heck no ! The excitement and anticipation leading up to that game is a valuable piece of Georgia football.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
I stand by the fact that BSU was not a good game for us. We werent ready, and it tainted our entire year.
I would like a rematch for 2012 though, when we have upperclassmen and they don’t.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
It certainly wasn't ideal for the group we had coming back compared to Boise
I would enjoy the opportunity to beat them again, but scheduling teams like this does nothing for us. It’s not a good situation: win and people will say “well, you were supposed to.” Lose and we have to hear it from everyone how we lost to Boise, like this year. Not interested in doing that again. Would much rather play an Oklahoma St., Ohio St., Clemson, FSU, etc
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Richt's teams have always done better with a solid opener
and worse without.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You act like the loss was a foregone conclusion
and it wasn’t. But go look at the yearly schedules, our best years under Richt all started with a quality opponent.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right?
It wasn’t a guarantee that we were going to lose to Boise State.
It’s the hindsight bias at its finest. After we lost, all of the arguments for not scheduling Boise State are obviously better, but we could have won the game.
I bet Oregon is lamenting playing LSU, too, but who knew at the time that LSU was going to destroy Oregon, especially considering the Jefferson situation? Had Oregon won, many LSU fans would be bemoaning that game, too.
GATA!
No, no, no. I didnt like this game ever. There is no hindsight in this. I didnt expect to win, but I did expect us to play better.
Playing opening cupcakes, with the exception of LSU, has been a proven formula.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
Proven to lead to a disappointing season under Richt
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
What is your definition of quality?
Because from what I have seen our best years came after playing weak/average teams. Proof:
Year – Opening Game – Rec – Bowl (W/L) – SEC Champ
2001 – Arkansas St (2-9) – 8-4 – Music City (L) – No
2002 – Clemson (7-6) – 13-1 – Sugar (W) – Yes
2003 – Clemson (9-4) – 11-3 – Cap One (W) – East
2004 – GA Southern (9-3) – 10-2 – Outback (W) – No
2005 – Boise St (9-4) – 10-3 – Sugar (L) – Yes
2006 – Western KY (6-5) – 9-4 – Chick-fil-a (W) – No
2007 – OSU (7-6) – 11-2 – Sugar (W) – No
2008 – GA Southern (6-5) – 10-3 – Cap One (W) – No
2009 – OSU (9-4) – 8-5 – Independ (L) – No
2010 – LA-Lafayette (3-9) – 6-7 – Liberty (L) – No
2011 – Boise St (11-1) – 10-3 – Outback (?) – East
Best years being
those in which we won the SEC Championship and a BCS bowl.
10 win seasons
the only one without a quality opening opponent are 2008 and 2004. Both can be deemed “disappointing” considering 2008 we were preseason #1, and 2004 we were pretty well regarded being Pollack and Greene’s senior season.
01-Good year for a first year, but had some disappointments late like Auburn and BC
02-Great year, and quality opponent to start
2003-another strong year, winning the SEC East and a quality opponent to start
2004-weak opponent, fail to win the East or meet preseason expectations
2005-Quality opener against a rising Boise, and a strong season
2006-weak opener, and a decent but not good season considering the loss of a bevy of seniors across the board positionally in 05
2007-Quality opponent in the opener with a BCS team in Okie St, and we finish #2 in the country in arguably Richt’s best year
2008-preseason #1, weak opener, and while 10 wins is nice, the blowouts hurt bad vs, Bama and UF and we failed to meet expectations
2009-the lone bad year with a solid opener
2010-weak opener, worst year under Richt by far
2011-Back to a solid opening opponent, back to winning the East and a good season meeting or exceeding expectations.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 15, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont think the data of starting big or not starting big really proves anything.
What I do know is in the last decade a majority of the NCs started with a slew of cupcakes.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
It could be coincidental, . . .
. . . but there’s no mistaking the existence of the pattern. It’s definitely there, as Mr. Sanchez has demonstrated; it’s just a question of whether the undeniable association might fairly be read to imply causation. Upon that point, reasonable people might disagree.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
What I see is a strong trend in the SEC between weak openers, weak OOC and NC. Exception is, oddly, LSU
2009 Auburn: Open with Arky State
2008 Alabama: Va Tech, then Florida INT and North Texas
2007: UF: Opened with Hawaii and then Miami
2006: LSU: Actually started strong OOC
2005: UF: Opened (check this): Southern Miss, Central Florida
2002: LSU: Opened Louisanna Monroe
It would take more time than I want to give, but most of these teams had quite a few cupcakes springled in the mix as well. So, beyond a possible CMR trend, the fact is a strong OOC doesnt really help you that much, but winnning the SEC helps you a whole lot. One year UF didnt win rings, but started with 3 cupcakes, and had good rankings in the last year. Believe it was Tebows last year when he cried.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
"winning the SEC helps you a whole lot"
Richt’s SEC title years started with Clemson and Boise St. His SEC East (but not SEC) winning seasons started with Clemson and Boise St.
Hmmm, does that mean next year will be disappointing, but 2013 and 2014 will lead to at least one SEC Title?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I think we are apples and oranges.
The BSU year – cupcake. Seriously.
The overall trend for NCs – not a lot of big OOC games (maybe 1) and opening with cupcakes.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
Except they were coming off 3 straight one loss seasons
and some (like Mark May, of course), thought Jared Zabransky and the Broncos could upset. The game made them seem like a cupcake, but that’s 20/20 hindsight. Coming in to the game, they were a respectable program, and the rising power of mid majors finally getting their chance on the big stage. It was no cupcake game in my opinion, and definitely was a level above the openers in 2001, 2004, 2006, 2008, and 2010.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Against who?
They had 3 no loss seasons against nobody teams. And you’re using hindsight much more than TT in your assessment that they were a rising team. You’re looking at where they are now and using it as justification as to why it shouldn’t be considered a cupcake game but at the time almost all UGA fans knew that game was a lock.
Clemson in 2002 was not quality. I get that they are a recognized team but that doesn’t mean that they are always going to field a quality team and 2002 was proof of that. As such, I wouldn’t have considered our team quality last year with the way they performed.
If the issue is the focus of the team . . .
. . . during the offseason, it doesn’t matter how good or bad Boise State or Clemson turned out to be, it matters how good Boise State and Clemson were expected to be, because that caused the Bulldogs to concentrate on their opener to a degree they wouldn’t have had they been playing Arkansas State.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
Ah, but why then
would OSU be considered a quality team in 2007? They were coming off of 3 straight 5+ loss seasons (7-5, 4-7, 7-6). Do you see the issue I’m having with there being no clear definition around the term “quality opponent”? It can be shifted to mean whatever is the most beneficial to the point at hand.
by AcworthDawg on Dec 21, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
The last four times . . .
. . . Georgia opened against Clemson (1946, 1982, 2002, and 2003), it produced three SEC championships, two SEC Championship Game appearances, three Sugar Bowl appearances, and four seasons of 11 wins or better.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
I knew that a win or a lose would not favor us as a foregone conclusion, and a loss would be horrible. A win is like beating tech.
My opinion of a lose/lose was a year ago. The results don’t matter, but a loss makes it all the worse.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
You can't play that what if game
Boise had nothing to do with the mental errors against SC. You could flip that preparation, and “wear and tear” after one game stuff, and say if we had a cupcake win in the opener, would we have come out as motivated and focused as we appeared to be vs. the Chickens, or would we have been in a daze and still lost? There is no way to ever know one way or the other. We lost South Carolina because we weren’t disciplined, and because they made plays. Boise or no Boise wouldn’t have made a difference, and might have contributed to a focus and offseason of hard work that led to the 10 game win streak that followed SC.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
For Once I Disagree
Because:
- I don’t see the choice as between 9 SEC games vs 8 + a strong OOC opponent. I see it as a choice between 9 SEC games vs maintaining 2 patsies. Given that choice, I’ll take the 9 SEC games + Tech + a Clemson or other tough Div I foe and, if we must, 1 patsy. We’re Georgia. We shouldn’t be afraid to play anybody, and shouldn’t feel a need to double up on patsies.
- The 4 East teams with OOC rivals already have those rivals, meaning they already have one more built in “tough” game than their West counterparts, so I don’t get why that changes just because all those teams will add one more SEC opponent—the competitive disadvantage already exists.
- While I, too, would like to see UGA v Clemson more often, I would hate even more to put the annual UGA-AU tilt (or, for that matter, UA-UT) at risk and I fear an 8 game SEC schedule may lead to that.
- I simply (though respectfully) disagree that the historic infrequency of certain SEC meetings is a rationale for returning to that infrequency. I do want to see the other 6 (non AU) West teams more often than once a decade. In fact, I would have liked to see Dooley’s Dawgs play Bryant’s Tide or whoever’s LSU more often back in the day, and would gladly go back in time and give up games against Tulane, Oregon State, Richmond, Temple, etc. to make that happen. Just think, Kyle—Herschel Walker never got to play against Bama or LSU; I think that’s a damn shame, don’t you?
- And, finally, I point out that in 1980, there wasn’t a guaranteed patsy in the scheduled bunch—and that didn’t turn out too badly!
You can put me in the “don’t know why we had to expand to 14 teams in the first place” camp, but I still hate the Designated Hitter and wild card teams, so perhaps I’m hopelessly archaic!
by Chickasaw on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's not just about preserving patsies for Ws.
The primary purpose, I believe, of maintaining cupcakes on the schedule is not to have guaranteed Ws but to maximize home games for revenue purposes. If Wisconsin would agree to play between the hedges without a return trip to Camp Randall, we’d play the Badgers instead of the Chanticleers.
Editorial Staff, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
@NCThom
Go 'Dawgs!
by NCT on Dec 13, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point, NCT
and well understood by this former townie/local employee. But we should still have little trouble getting to 6. And better games mean greater television exposure for team, university and town, greater likelihood of “true sell outs” (meaning no empty seats), more people staying over (esp. if there are more night games) and living it up and just plain ol’ better games. Personally, I need only consider the example of next year’s soft home schedule to conclude I’d much prefer 6 games and a stronger schedule to 7 and a weaker schedule.
I've said this before, but many moons ago, maybe before his stint at Miss. St.
Jackie Sherell spoke to the Touchdown Club in Greenville. He predicted 4 super conferences then. I remember he had a map he marked up during his presentation.
I guess those in the know have realized the inevitability of this long ago.
It's money, all money
and has been for years. Why let a beauracratic entity that does nothing get a cut? Why share a cut with the little sisters of the poor? There is too much big money for the big boys to continue sharing without a greater incentive to do so.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The talk of super conferences has been around for 25 years actually. Cutting to 64 teams was part of it.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
Relegation
Maybe Dave or Vine could explain Priemer Cup relegation to us and work that into the mix. Move Kentucky and Miss St back and forth between the divisions to try to keep it competatively even.
by chrisvilledawg on Dec 13, 2011 10:25 PM EST reply actions
I like this idea
But move the lowest 3 or 4 teams out of the SEC and say the top Big 12, Big Televen, PAC 12, and ACC team in ala PL. This year: Ole Miss, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vandy/Miss St out and Wisconsin, Oregon, Okie State, VaTech/Clemson in. Year in, year out… That’s a super-conference.
Editor, Dawgsports.com
Sacrificing goats, chugging Maker's Mark, and walking underneath The Arch.
by RedCrake on Dec 14, 2011 1:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That could become a reality
where there are 3 conferences of football (Super64, FBS and FCS) in the top levels of the NCAA. Imagine a system where a 6-6 Ohio State University could be regulated to the FBS while a Houston could be offered the opportunity to move up to the Super64. I am actually starting to like the “regulated” idea while still dis-liking that black and white round ball game…hmmm has promising traits to it.
I HATE ORANGE, and DGNBs
This is a damn fine idea, chrisvilledawg.
I think I’m going to create a story on that exact topic.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Dec 14, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
or Premier Cup if your spell checker prefers.
by chrisvilledawg on Dec 13, 2011 10:27 PM EST reply actions

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