The Penn State Scandal
by podunkdawg on Nov 8, 2011 11:09 PM EST
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PrintThere are some topics we generally don't discuss here at Dawg Sports. Our focus has always been first and foremost on University of Georgia Athletics and there are some topics that as civilized people we just don't discuss in public or polite company. Unfortunately, events have taken place this week at Pennsylvania State University and subsequently received much media attention and so they bear addressing.
These are difficult subjects, they are sensitive subjects and there is no easy way to address them. I will do the very best that I can to handle this topic with the sensitivity and civility it deserves. I want to start out by saying what we have here is not a conviction, it's not a confession, it's not irrefutable proof of wrong doing. What we have is allegations, we have reports, we have a legal case that is working its way through the legal system.
As you have undoubtedly heard by now, the report is the former Defensive Coordinator for the Pennsylvania State Nittany Lions, Jerry Sandusky is alleged to have sexually abused a number of young boys over a period of several years, both during his tenure at Penn State and after his retirement. The reports indicate Mr. Sandusky continued to have use of the facilities at Pennsylvania State after his retirement. He used the facilities while working with The Second Mile, a non-profit organization he founded in 1977 to work with disadvantaged youth. The allegations as we understand them are Mr. Sandusky was seen by, then graduate assistant Mike McQueary, actively assaulting a young boy in the Nittany Lions team locker room showers on March 1, 2002. Further, the indictment against him suggests Mr. Sandusky may have abused young boys as early as 1994. According to the media reports, Mr. McQueary stated in his Grand Jury testimony that upon witnessing the sexual assault, he "left immediately and first contacted his father before calling [Head Coach Joe] Paterno the next morning and then meeting at Paterno's home." Mr. Paterno in turn notified his superiors of the report he received, working up the chain of command.
There is a whole lot of blame being laid in a whole lot of places and there is certainly more than enough to go around. Some have called for Joe Paterno to step down or be fired immediately. Joe Paterno is 84 years old and is in his 45th year as the head coach for the Pennsylvania State Nittany Lions. He is the winningest head coach in FBS College Football - currently at 409 wins. By all accounts he has run an ethical, clean program. This is certainly a very serious black mark on the program, if the allegations prove true. Jerry Sandusky's 30 year tenure at Penn State began in 1969 and ended with his retirement in 1999.
Let me be clear about one thing. The person responsible for Mr. Sandusky's actions and conduct is Mr. Sandusky. It is not Joe Paterno, the administration of Pennsylvania State University, or Mr. McQueary. It is most certainly not the children, the parents or the Second Mile organization. The only person responsible for Mr. Sandusky's conduct and decisions is Mr. Sandusky. If these allegations are proven true, then it is Mr. Sandusky first and foremost who should be held accountable for those actions.
Secondly, there is Mr. McQueary. A man who witnessed an ongoing sexual assault on a child and by his own account, turned and left the building. I have a problem with his course of action. If you witness an active assault on another human being, male or female, adult or child, regardless of race, religion, creed, nationality, ability, or disability, I believe you have a moral obligation to step in and take action. There is a proper course of action in this situation. You step in to protect the child then you report the abuser to law enforcement. There is no excuse. There is no reason. There is nothing that will explain walking away and not stepping in to protect a child who is being actively assaulted. Walking away, in my opinion, is as morally reprehensible as the activity itself.
The actions of the administration are another matter. These are not people who witnessed an active assault. They did not walk into the room and witness Mr. Sandusky engaging in unlawful activity. They received a report. They did not receive a video tape. They were not personally knowledgeable. The fact is an abuser does not look like an abuser. I can assure you without doubt in my mind that at some point in time you have met an abuser and you didn't know it. They do not wear black hats. They do not stand out in a crowd. They do not wear a sign that says I am a child molester. They are your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers, your church members and you can't tell them apart. They are charming, personable, pleasant people. They are also exceptionally good at manipulating and conniving people. That's how they lure victims. They don't look creepy. They don't make the hair on the back of your neck stand up when they walk into the room. They don't look at you and say I am going to abuse your son or daughter when you send him or her to my camp. According to RAINN, every two minutes someone in the US is sexually assaulted. 44% of victims are minors. 60% of the assaults go unreported. In 93% of sexual assaults against juveniles, the victim knows their attacker. More often than not, abusers are not strangers. Instead they are trusted adults.
Before we condemn the actions of Mr. Sandusky's superiors at Penn State, consider what you would think if someone accused a friend or coworker of yours of assaulting a child. Most folks would not want to believe the allegation could possibly be true. False accusations are not unheard of. Add to that seed of doubt a charming, personable denial and it becomes easier to see how one might have sufficient doubt to allow the accused to resign rather than calling law enforcement or child protective services.
Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley and Sr. Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Shultz have each been charged with perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse. According to the indictments against them, they are accused of both failing to tell the police and subsequently falsely telling the grand jury Mr. McQueary did not inform them of the inappropriate conduct. Tim Curley is now on administrative leave and Gary Shultz has retired. Certainly the stigma will never disappear. The families of Sandusky, McQueary, Curley and Shultz also live with the shame of the accusations and the nightmare of the media attention, despite no indication of any wrong doing on their part. Like the children, they are innocent, and yet they suffer as well.
There is nothing that can be said to explain why any adult would do such a thing to a child. We know bad things happen in our world. Allegations like this make many of us hold our children tighter and keep our firearms well-oiled. In this case, it seems likely a whole host of adults let down at least 20 separate children who have reported being assaulted by Jerry Sandusky from 1994 to 2009. If convicted of these charges, it is likely Mr. Sandusky will spend the rest of his days in prison. He is now 67 years old and facing 40 separate charges in the grand jury indictment.
For the children and their parents, they will never forget. Hopefully, they will find love, support, peace, healing and justice. Certainly the continuing media coverage does not accelerate their healing. There are no easy answers and no simple solutions. As bystanders, we can only offer up our prayers for all concerned and hope the media allows the victims the privacy and respect they deserve.
EDIT: I was extremely remiss writing this last night and for that I apologize. I should have also said this:
To the alumni, students, fans, & athletes of Penn State - YOU have done nothing wrong in any this and YOU have nothing to be ashamed of. Our thoughts and prayers are with the affected children and their families as well as all of you.
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I posted this link on the other thread
if you missed it here it is again……………
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7205085/growing-penn-state
Most excellent piece. This should go national.
Editor, "Dawgsports"
"The ball ain't heavy." Herschel Walker
by tankertoad on Nov 8, 2011 11:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Students rioting at Penn State
Not sure what they want, but it’s getting pretty serious.
by Dawg from Canton on Nov 8, 2011 11:30 PM EST reply actions
I would imagine...
Its because 1% of the Big Ten wins 99% of the Big Ten championships.
I’m joking of course… and I apologize for my need to inject humor into such a humorless situation… its my way of working through things that trouble me/a character flaw.
In all seriousness, like everyone else, I find this whole thing beyond despicable. I work with 11-13 year olds every day that come from backgrounds of abuse (physical, verbal, sexual, etc.) Life is unbearably difficult for these children. Hell, just being a teenager is hard enough. Add in this kind of disgusting behavior on the part of adults and you wind up with kids who don’t know how to cope and don’t know who to trust. Its the worst thing that could ever happen to a child.
Regarding the action, or lack thereof, of the administration and athletic department at Penn State, I just can’t come to terms with it. I’ve been faced with how to deal with allegations against colleagues and friends in the past in these types of situations. In some cases, they were investigated and found to be innocent of any wrong doing, in others… not so much. Regardless, in any situation involving children, these allegations must be addressed and reported. External circumstance have to be and are irrelevant. Would I report such an allegation against a friend or colleague? In a heartbeat. I just see the issue as black and white. If the accusation is false, it will be found so in any subsequent investigation. I realize the harm and anguish this may put the person through if the allegation does, in fact, turn out to be false, but when it comes to the well being of a child, it has to be done. That’s why teachers and others who work with children (from infancy through early adulthood) are legally required to report even the suspicion of impropriety.
That’s my take anyway, for what its worth. To put it another way, if this situation occurred at The University of Georgia and CMR did not immediately go to the authorities (which, of course, we are all confident he would), I’d be down in front of Butts-Mehre with a torch and a pitchfork.
/Walloftext
Editor, Dawgsports.com
Sacrificing goats, chugging Maker's Mark, and walking underneath The Arch.
by RedCrake on Nov 8, 2011 11:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I forgot to mention
My thanks to podunk for going through this entire issue in such detail and with such depth of thought. If I came across as contrary or overly intense in my response, it was not my intent. There are simply very few things in life that I take more seriously than people messing with kids (as I know to be the case with everyone else here as well)
Editor, Dawgsports.com
Sacrificing goats, chugging Maker's Mark, and walking underneath The Arch.
by RedCrake on Nov 9, 2011 12:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you in that 4th paragraph on the lack of action by others
and that is why I do NOT consider them to be innocent in any way, shape or form. Their inaction disgusts me almost as much as Sandusky’s sickness.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
"Riot" is a little disingenuous.
More like a ‘Rally’.
Definitely not an ‘Occupation’…
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
by leeharvey418 on Nov 9, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Bad choice of words on my part
I guess I’m too quick to assume that every midnight gathering of angry college students is or will turn into a riot.
They have every right to be angry, but I don’t understand how so many people refuse to believe that Paterno did anything wrong.
by Dawg from Canton on Nov 9, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Penn State students have always felt a close bond with Joe Paterno.
Everyone has been in shock for the past several days. Today, Paterno had a statement in hand and was eager to answer questions and get his side of the story into the public. Less than an hour before his press conference was to begin, the president of the university abruptly cancelled it, leaving him without a forum.
The rallies you saw today were born out of a desire to give a man who has given more than merely his life to our university a chance to tell his story instead of watching as the vultures descended on his home. He’s earned at least that much. At worst, Joe Paterno did the legally correct and decent thing. At best, he did all that he could. The truth most likely lies very much in the middle, but somehow he’s become a bigger focus in this story than Jerry Sandusky.
You without me is like Harold Melvin without the Blue Notes . . . you'll never go platinum.
#OccupyESPN
Did he see Sandusky after reporting it up the chain
and fail to follow up? If so, he did not do “all that he could”. I agree though that the man has more than deserved his right to tell his side of this, and has unfortunately not been given that chance publically.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Thanks, Adam.
I agree with every part of that, except this: “At worst, Joe Paterno did the legally correct and decent thing. At best, he did all that he could.” While he wasn’t the first person at fault, or the person most at fault, I stand by the position that, if you have good reason to believe a child is being abused, your duty is to call the police and report it. Coach Paterno heard a firsthand account from an eyewitness, and he passed it up to the next rung on the organizational chart. No one who knows how to pick up a phone and dial 911, but didn’t, can be said to have done either “the legally correct and decent thing” or “all that he could.”
This, unfortunately, is going to be for Joe Paterno what Watergate was for Richard Nixon, both in its ultimate result, and in the taint it places upon everything good that came before. Otherwise, though, I agree with everything else in your comment, and I thank you for it, Adam.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
The focus on Paterno is because his action/inaction
is the only part of the story where there does exist a grey area between law and morality.
Sandusky’s actions are indefensible. The two administrators failed in their legal obligation to report the incident and perjured themselves making it easy to assign blame to them and very hard to defend them. But Paterno and McQueary violated no law in their inaction. The law required that they pass the information/allegation along the chain of command, which they did. However, many people feel that there is a moral obligation that exists outside of the law to report suspected criminal activity, especially criminal activity of this nature and magnitude. Some people believe that since they did all that the law required they are clear.
Therefore, there is room for debate, and it is centered around a high profile figure, and it involves activity that people feel very strongly about.
by UGAVike on Nov 9, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ive retyped a comment for this thread about 5 times now
sometimes the words just arent there
all i can really say is that I hope these poor young men are braver than I could be in not letting something like this control/ruin their lives. The thoughts of the entire Bulldog Nation are with you all in hopes of a wonderful life beyond what one horrible person did
Life will always throw you curves, just keep fouling them off... the right pitch will come, but when it does, be prepared to run the bases. ~Rick Maksian
Thank you, podunkdawg.
… for this thoughtful treatment of a very difficult story.
Editorial Staff, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
@NCThom
Go 'Dawgs!
by NCT on Nov 8, 2011 11:52 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
McQueary
I want to say I would have busted in there and saved the kid. I believe I would have. But you have a powerful man doing an atrocious thing and god knows what goes through your mind at that second. There is probably a larger % of us than would like to admit it that would do exactly what McQueary did initially. Where I think and hope many of us differ is that we would have called the police shortly thereafter.
by barstool69 on Nov 9, 2011 12:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is why I'm not sure it's appropriate to blame him.
Or, anyone (except Sandusky) until the facts are laid out in full.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Agree...
Who knows how we would initially react upon seeing such a horrific act?
I’d like to think, as you say, that I, too, would rush in there and stop whatever heinous act was occurring; however, fortunately, I have never been in the same situation—I hope I never am. As you say, the troubling thing for me, as mentioned by you and others, is not his inaction in the locker room, but the inaction (or limited action) immediately after.
Well said. Rec’d.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
Thank you very much for this
From a Penn Stater, I sincerely thank you. The last couple of days have had a lot of us questioning whether everything we ever thought was good and right in the world was really so.
That said – I do have to take issue with your stance on what McQueary should have done. None of us can say what we would do if we’re presented with the situation where a person we consider a mentor is performing an act so heinous we can’t even fully understand what’s going on, much less fully process and make sense of it. We’d all like to say that we’d intercede, but until we’re presented with that situation we just don’t know. I pray none of us ever has to find out…
Thank you again.
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
I can appreciate your stance re: McQueary
Reasonable people may disagree.
I respect his level of honesty which appears to have exceeded that of some of his superiors. I just fundamentally do not understand how you don’t react instinctively in that situation.
Housemother & Editor at Dawg Sports
I can bake like a demon.
Neither do I.
I just hope I never have to find out whether my reaction would be any different.
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
by leeharvey418 on Nov 9, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
It's not his lack of immediate reaction that bothers me
because for all anyone knows, reacting violently could have actually put the child in danger of more harm.
My problem with him is that he knows what he saw in that locker room and he did not either call the police himself or follow up when he noticed that Sandusky was not being charged criminally after reporting the incident to his superiors. Further, Sandusky continued to come around the PSU campus and football program after all of this WITH OTHER CHILDREN and McQueary still didn’t do anything. I may not have immediately acted physically toward Sandusky, but I know that I would not stand idly by while that person continued to interact with children in the manner that Sandusky did (holding camps/overnight events/etc.).
Exactly
I can understand being scared and not knowing what to do. At least he reported it to his superiors… which was unquestionably the right thing to do. However, when nothing was done, he absolutely should have taken the next step.
Editor, Dawgsports.com
Sacrificing goats, chugging Maker's Mark, and walking underneath The Arch.
by RedCrake on Nov 9, 2011 1:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
For me, the question is whether you call your superiors, then call the police, . . .
. . . or whether you call the police, then call your superiors.
There are two phone calls that have to be made. You make the second one the instant you hang up from making the first one. Reasonable people may disagree about the order in which those calls are made, but, whatever you do about confronting the assailant in the moment, you make both calls, and you make them right then.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
I agree
But I can also see how once you’ve reported it to someone you believe to be of high moral character, you would believe they will contact the authorities (I imagine the GA was trying to pass the buck because he didn’t know how to handle it). Once you see no reponse, however, you have to take action on your own.
Editor, Dawgsports.com
Sacrificing goats, chugging Maker's Mark, and walking underneath The Arch.
by RedCrake on Nov 9, 2011 1:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I understand that.
I just don’t see how, if you’re the eyewitness, you’re going to leave it to someone else to call and say, “I know a guy who’s an eyewitness.” You’re in it; you’re the guy who saw it; you’re the only adult with more than a hunch. You’re going to have to talk to the police, anyway; you should be the one to call the police.
I agree with UGAVike that the shock of seeing this, coupled with the potential danger, made it at least understandable that he didn’t take immediate physical action. In any case, I suspect that yelling, “Hey!” would’ve spooked the assailant and caused him to skedaddle rapidly, sparing the kid from further harm and putting McQueary in a position to see if the kid needed medical attention. At that point, though, you call the police, and you call your supervisor. I think you do it in that order, but, to me, it’s non-negotiable that you make two calls.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
I would like to think I would have done the right thing...
And on the outside, it seems like there is no decision at all. You call the police, or you tell your supervisors and if they don’t call the police, then you do.
But, I am not a graduate assistant at Penn State. I have not grown up or been surrounded by the Penn State culture. I do not have the same feelings of respect or loyalty that McQueary most likely had for Penn State, Paterno, and probably Sandusky. Seeing Matt Millen cry on ESPN shows the impact this is having on people who looked to Sandusky as a mentor and father-figure. I cannot imagine the feelings of seeing a respected authority figure in a situation like McQueary did.
It reminds me of studying Milgram’s experiment in sociology. It is important to understand how much of our morality is shaped by authority. I am not defending anyone involved in this at Penn State, nor do I think that any theories on why they acted can absolve them of blame for their poor decisions. Just saying McQueary is not the first person to act this way in a situation like this.
Though I would like to believe I would have acted differently, I hope I am never in the situation to find out.
by liftbigdiehuge on Nov 9, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
I tried to say this but couldn't figure out how
You said it much better than I could. I agree 100%.
I can’t imagine what McQueary was feeling when he saw that, so I won’t try to judge him. I would like to think I would have acted differently, but I honestly don’t know. It’s easy for us to say we would have done something different (and Lord knows there is enough righteous indignation flying around on talk radio this week saying just that), but none of us can say for sure.
I’d like to think if I was in that situation and I caught someone I respected and admired doing something like that I would have gone to the authorities and made sure that my superiors did something about it, but I don’t know.
That's sad then
anyone who would witness such an act, and not both a) attempt to intervene, and b) immediately call law enforcement after attempting to intervene, well to be nice, I just couldn’t understand that sort of mindset.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I think you're kinda missing my point
I can’t imagine what McQuery’s thought process was. It’s impossible for me to put myself in that situation. Therefore, I have no earthly idea how I’d react. Because of that, I’m not going to judge him. I’m going to save my judgement and disgust for Sandusky, the person who undoubtedly deserves it.
Out of curiosity...
Have you ever been in a similar situation? If not, how can you be so certain that you would react in such a way, to the point of casting moral judgment on those who act differently?
I agree; in a perfect world, we all would sacrifice our well-being and even our lives for those in need. We would take a bullet for a friend, we would run into a burning building to rescue someone, and we would rush into a shower to save a child. From the safety and comfort of my computer, I can be He-Man, Superman, and a Saint, all wrapped into one.
But when faced with a split second decision and confronted with one of the most horrific acts possible, who knows what you or I would do, unless of course, you’ve actually acted in the past in a similar situation? Once again, I’d like to believe I would do the “right thing.” But I’m not about to judge others who’ve actually been in said circumstances for acting differently. Why do you feel the need say that is “sad”?
We all agree that, at a minimum, the authorities should have been notified, but I’m not going to cast stones when, fortunately for me, I have never been in a similar situation.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
There is no gun, no fire, none of that nonsense
if you disagree, then so be it. Excusing McQueary’s inaction is inexcusable to me, and condones future inaction. It’s mindsets like that which allowed Sandusky to continue his predatory behavior and put more children, more people in jeopardy. It is obvious I think there is a lot less gray area here than others.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Inaction vs. Action
Excusing McQueary’s inaction is inexcusable to me, and condones future inaction.
Where has anyone said his inaction is excusable? Is calling the police, a physical act that requires picking up a phone and speaking with a human, included in your definition of “inaction.”
I agree that the best possible act by McQueary would have been to run into the shower, throttle Sandusky, and rescue the child; however, we disagree on the amount of judgment cast toward McQueary for not physically intervening, since I am simply not going to opine on how I would or would not act in a given situation. I, nor you, can guarantee with 100% certainty how we would act if placed in that situation.
I do know, without a doubt, that regardless of any beatdown administered to Sandusky, I would have called the authorities. That’s the inaction that is inexcusable.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
Yes, failure to call law enforcement is included in "inaction"
and as of now, nothing about this has included him notifying authorities. In fact, he actively knew that no law enforcement was ever contacted based on the fact that as Kyle mentions above, any investigation by law enforcement would have automatically included in contacting him. When you’re never contacted about this, alarm bells should be ringing.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
We agree...
Everyone who was aware of what happened should have contacted the authorities.
Obviously, none were contact because Sandusky was never arrested.
That’s what’s disgusting and sad about this entire situation—many people knew the kind of monster Sandusky was, yet they let him walk around potentially harming other children.
Awful.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
I will agree with point a) though
I think failing to intervene is inexcusable. I do know exactly how I would react if I were to see somebody, regardless of my relationship to them, assaulting any person in that manner.
I don't see how his position as a grad assistant
or ties to the program, have anything to do with not calling the police when you see a grown man molesting a child. Or how that has anything to do with not attempting to stop the act when you see a grown man molesting a child.
All this, Sandusky’s stature, his “mentor” or whatever ways, or the even more ludicrous, he could have lost his job, type nonsense is ridiculous to me. In an act like that, actually witnessing it’s depravity live and in front of you, that past “stature” and potential job, etc goes away really quick.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
My distinction
or the one I tried to make but may have done inadequately, is the difference (to me) between having actual knowledge (you saw it happening) and having a report, especially one that is 2nd or 3rd hand report. To me, direct knowledge creates a greater responsibility.
That said, I still think if I walked in on such an activity, I would not think, but would immediately intervene.
Housemother & Editor at Dawg Sports
I can bake like a demon.
This post was linked over at our site earlier.
The allegations against Jerry Sandusky are unspeakable. The alleged behavior of two senior members of the administration who appear to have actively covered up this scandal is unconscionable. They’ve left children’s lives ruined and a university irreparably damaged. All the while, the president of the university has remained invisible, except to cancel the press conference and attempt to silence the man who has been the public face of Penn State for decades, while many all-knowing and all-seeing members of the media call for his resignation while gaping holes exist in the information currently available.
Still, the thousands of alumni, students, faculty and staff who associate themselves with this university have begun the difficult process of picking up the pieces of a tattered reputation and healing gaping wounds. Tim Curley is on indefinite administrative leave. Gary Schultz has “retired.” President Graham Spanier appears to be on his way out of State College.
When the full factual account of Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary’s knowledge comes out, let the chips fall where they may. I refuse to rush to judgment. Thanks for writing. Penn Staters appreciate a level headed response. Go Dawgs.
You without me is like Harold Melvin without the Blue Notes . . . you'll never go platinum.
#OccupyESPN
Thanks, Adam.
On a more positive note, any chance of our getting a rematch of the ’83 Sugar Bowl in the Capital One or Outback Bowl this season?
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
Please dear Lord no...
…as painful it was to sit in the Dome after that last minute defeat, and be reminded of it every CFB Saturday when Todd Blackledge takes to the airways, we certainly don’t want to be in a game that will be doused with this controversy. It’s all the press will focus on, especially if JoePa coaches the bowl game (as I presume he would).
Sitting in Pat O’Brien’s the night before the game in 1983 (I guess that would have been New Year’s eve ‘82?), PSU’er’s explained to us the (unofficial) origin of their mascot in response to our polite and sober query, “What the Hell is a Nittany?” . The contrived story about an Indian princess (“Nittany”) and her “lying” supposedly begets “Nittnay Lion”.
Sadly, the spelling may need to indeed be “Lying”.
Run Lindsay Run!
We can all
make conjecture about what we would or would not do in that situation but there is a simple matter of right and wrong. It is wrong to see something like that and walk away, scared or not. It is right to protect those that cannot protect themselves. It is wrong to not call the police when you witness something like that. It is wrong to have knowledge of something like this and never follow up on it. None of us can 100% say what we would or would not do in any of the people’s positions in this situation. I do believe some situations in life have a gray area, say a man fired from his job stealing some bread to feed his children. There are however some areas of black and white. At all levels from McQueary on up to everyone else that was in the know there should have called the police. There is no way to handle this internally and it never should be handled that way. The police should have been involved from the very start. The fact that this guy was still around the university in any capacity after the reported incident brings up a lot more issues. Finally and this is a maybe gray area but something that just rubbed me the wrong way but I don’t feel there is any good reason for the (small group) of Penn State fans that I heard chanting Paterno’s name today on the TV. At best Paterno did what he felt was right given the information he had but how someone could chant for him given the circumstances just amazes me. I am not sure what their motives are for chanting for him but it was not the time nor the place.
They feel that he's being wrongly accused here
A lot of people are ready to, at best, let Joe fall on his sword for everything that happened. Many want to see him fired outright. The students who are rallying are doing it because they feel that Joe did everything right and is being made a scapegoat.
As for me, I say let the facts come out before we judge the moral integrity of Joe’s actions. Given his track record of doing the right thing, I don’t have any reason to doubt that he’ll end up being exonerated at the end of this. If I’m wrong and it does appear that Joe acted cordially toward Sandusky after finding out the facts in the case, then of course I’ll change my tune. Until that happens, though, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
I can
understand that sentiment but he already admitted he knew about that one day. At that point he should have called the police. If he didn’t then what he did of reporting it to his boss may have made him not legally in the wrong but morally it is hard for me to think it is anything but wrong. I come at this from a standpoint of not having really judged the Duke kids on the rape charges (I hate Duke but let the facts come out) same with AU last year about Newton (I REALLY HATE AU. I don’t think he should take the fall alone but at this point I would be shocked if anything came out that made me change my mind. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions but that is how I feel. I just can’t come up with any excuse that would work for him once he was told what happened. This is not meant to be an attack on Penn State at all as the scary thing is that due to the atmosphere in small college towns I could see something similiar happening elsewhere if the fans/media in that area are not careful.
Fair enough
Reasonable people can disagree, as long as we’re civil about voicing our opinions.
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
More and more it looks like Paterno just doesn't get it, though.
His comments at the impromptu pep rally were hideously calloused—"As you know, the kids that were the victims, or whatever they want to call them, I think we ought to say a prayer for them." It’s demeaning and reveals that he’s not even sure any of this actually happened!
He should not be allowed to go the whole season—he owes the university and HIS TEAM the dignity of not having his presence detract from their games the rest of the year. But Joe Pa is clearly, in his own mind, the king of the university and he can retire at the end of the year if he wants to and that is that, you silly little Board of Trustees.
That's an astoundingly nitpicky reading of Paterno's words there
in my opinion. There are about a million things “whatever they want to call them” came out of his mouth. It could just be a synonym-phrase for “allegedly”, as everybody always has to say in these kinds of situations that haven’t been settled in a court of law yet. It could also be that he felt bad “labeling” them as victims, though that’s kind of a politically-correct thing that is probably not on Paterno’s 84 year old radar.
In any case, suppose that you’re right that “he’s not even sure any of this actually happened.” Well, if that’s true, or to put a similar but different spin on it, if he is still very much in the dark as to what exactly took place, then that would seem to mitigate somewhat in his moral favor regarding “not going to the police.”
by Xon on Nov 9, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, Xon.
He was mumbling before he said that particular phrase, and he was speaking impromptu to a large group… those were just the words that came out. I seemed rather benign to me, too.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, gee...
I’m sorry. We should allow JoePa the benefit not being nitpicked.
Sorry, I think not. Not now.
In this particular situation, rbubp, I disagree with you.
Unless you are contending that Joe Paterno was actively complicit in the Penn State coverup and/or actively believes that Jerry Sandusky is wrongly accused, I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to give the man the benefit of the doubt in this one instance.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Pardon my sarcasm there, guys
Not really called for.
Your point is a valid one...
… and we’ll see how it shakes out in the courts. Certainly, there is potential there for multiple lawsuits.
My only point was that I don’t think he was trying to be confrontational in his impromptu press conference in front of his house.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
No, I don't think "confrontational."
I think “out of touch.” I think being out of touch is what caused the ignorance on Paterno’s end. (The others, I don’t know what to say for them.)
Can't argue with that one.
It’s certainly a strong possibility.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's cool.
We’re all pretty upset over this, and everyone’s skin is a little thinner than normal.
No harm, no foul, rbubp.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent, podunkdawg.
Simply excellent.
Editor @ Dawg Sports. 3rd degree Red 'n Black Belt.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
From the you couldn't make this up if you tried file
I hope his prison stay ends in the same way Dahmer’s did.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
This is one of the most egregious situations I've ever seen in my life.
In 1977, Jerry Sandusky founded an organization to help underprivileged youth called The Second Mile. That organizations motto on their website is “Providing Children with Help and Hope.”
Now, it is alleged that Sandusky is not only a pedophile, but the children that he abused were children from his own foundation that was supposed to be helping them. And by the very nature of the foundation, the children were virtually all from shifty backgrounds and poor situations, so if any of them ever reported him, it would have been the word of a poor, disadvantaged youth with a possible ulterior motive against a Penn State legend whose character had never been called into question.
What I’m saying is that, if he hadn’t been literally caught in the act, he would probably never even have been caught.
This egregious abuse of position and power to take advantage of the weakest members of our society makes me want to vomit. Actually, it makes me want to do something that would get me thrown in jail, but we have laws and a judicial system, so we can only hope he receives justice through that mechanism.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
He was caught in the act though! I forget how early (may have been in 1998), he was confronted by a mother
and the police were listening in as he basically confessed. In a seriously sketchy part of this whole incident, the DA didn’t press charges, and if I have the information correct, he disappeared a few years back and was declared legally dead. The fact that nothing happened from that incident is the part that’s totally beyond my comprehension.
But I agree with others to say that I like to think I would do better than McQueary in the immediate situation but I have no way of knowing, and I have to disagree that McQueary’s actions that day even approach the level of Sandusky’s as implied by Podunkdawg
In 2002, multiple members of the PSU administration (apparently to include Coach Paterno)
were informed of a possible sexual assault on their campus. Whether or not (or how thoroughly) the university conducted an investigation into the incident,…we don’t know. We do know that the incident was not turned over to the local police for their investigation in 2002. The “possible” assailant, Sandusky, was allowed to continue to use campus facilities, maintain an office, and run a football camp for children on the campus after 2002 for multiple years.
I don’t know about ya’ll, but not turning this over to law authorities for investigation and allowing Sandusky to continue to participate in events with children on their campus without being cleared of this by a law enforcement agency is inexcusable. That’s the problem. Not turning it over for investigation in 2002 and allowing the individual to continue to be a member of the “Penn State family” without lawful resolution of the incident (my apologies to abuse victims by calling this an “incident”).
No one wants to see individual rights trampled on, but there is some very apparent lack of moral duty here. Personally, I think swift actions against responsible or contributing individuals here is absolutely necessary. Firing someone from a job just indicates that you’ve determined that they are not the individuals you want working for you. It’s not a conviction of a crime. Do you really want Schultz or Curley working with you if their inaction in 2002 is true? Apparently a PSU Board of Trustees committee will determine this shortly.
About McQueary, I hope I would have the guts to step in and stop a situation like that but that’s easy to say from a keyboard. His actions though, were too little, too late…..
by pseudonymion on Nov 9, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It is so heartbreaking.
Clearly it makes some feel better to assess blame, beyond Sandusky. Maybe it is some part of our human nature that makes us feel that if we assess blame and punish the wrongdoer we have the power to prevent evil. And this is the result of pure -T evil.
This is a sad ending for Paterno, but he is not the victim.
He hung around too long.
Very nice post Podunkdawg.
Beyond the initial fray...
one of the most sickening things was the way that Penn State admin and PR came out in support of Mr. Sandusky and blathered on an on about how they had confidence in him and what not. There was never a mention of remorse or support in any way for the victims of this act. I understand some would say that this is alleged but there is an eyewitness to the molestation of a young boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room. Someone should have had enough sense common decency to extend some kind of good will, regret, sorrow, et al over the situation to the VICTIMS…namely innocent children.
Instead, they circled the wagons and in the process formed a barrier between them and human kindness and responsibility. They may retract and get a redo on the whole thing but the initial reaction was in no way to support a victim but to uphold their sacred traditions and university. Truly Sickening.
PjsGroundPound
btw--great job podunkdawg
PjsGroundPound
by PJsGroundPound on Nov 9, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Their away games will be nasty if this is true
by Dawg from Canton on Nov 9, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I honestly don't mean to bang on you, Dawg from Canton...
… but that seems almost insignificant at this point.
I guess I’m still reeling from the unfathomable revelation that a longtime DC molested children for at least 2 decades on campus, and the authorities knew and did nothing about it.
This would be like finding out that Erk Russell had molested children for 20 years, and Vince Dooley and Charles Knapp knew and did nothing about it.
I’m still in the “I just can’t wrap my mind around it” phase. (In between the “I need to find my shotgun” and “OMG can you imagine what those kids went through” phases.)
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I get it
But the players don’t deserve the negative attention they’ll get from fans of opposing schools, either. They have nothing to do with this, and the seniors will be forced to go out with this memory.
That being said, you’re right. All the football aspects of this are completely insignificant. There are much, much bigger problems here, and it will take a long time to even get the full story. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
by Dawg from Canton on Nov 9, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
You're absolutely right
The mechanics of his exit are all wrong. The noble thing to do would be: a) resign immediately with a statement saying you want the focus to be on your great, innocent seniors; b) appoint an interim head coach either from within the program that clearly had nothing to do with these incidents, but maybe, someone outside the program.
I think that if everyone associated with this scandal left, the seniors would get a big round of applause even at away games. You’re right, they had nothing to do with it and their legacy and memories are ruined by a small group of incompetents.
by WindyCityDawg on Nov 9, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
What a sad way to go out...
It’s just an awful, awful end to such a storied career.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
This is not enough, in my opinion
He should step down immediately and someone associated with the team and not implicated in the scandal (maybe a coach that joined PSU recently) should coach the final games.
This is a level of institutional failure that far surpasses anything that ever occurred at USC, Auburn, UConn or at any school implicated in any NCAA scandal — all of that seems petty now. This is a case where a group of powerful men “investigated” an awful incident involving one of their own and, presumably, improperly exonnerated him without the assistance of any law enforcement authorities whatsoever. If true, at best this represents a sickening level of ineptitude. At worst, it is a full-blown coverup. Either way, everyone involved should be terminated immediately.
I understand — you don’t want to believe the absolute worst about a friend. Too bad. That’s not an option you have given the nature of the accusation. Further, this is not a potentially false accusation coming from a suspicious parent (which also must be taken seriously, but if they did not actually witness anything, I suppose it might be somewhat less morally repugnant to discount their claim), but rather from a witness to the rape of a child. Frankly I’m as outraged by the retirement announcement as I was by the prospect of any of the involved coaching staff being present anywhere near a college football game this coming Saturday.
by WindyCityDawg on Nov 9, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Paterno playing out the string is a joke
The inaction, at best and coverup at worst, of the administration leads me to the conclusion that if Penn State had any dignity at all, they’d completely clean house in the football program. I’m sure that sounds harsh to the innocent players and other staff not involved, but all scandals have innocent casualties. The inactions of those people contributed to stealing of the innocence of children and as a father, my stomach turns at the thought and my heart breaks for those unfortunate children.
Some people want to excuse Paterno, but if people think the winningest football coach at a football school can’t take a stand against child molestation, you’d be incorrect. I do wonder if he didn’t make that call in 2002 because he’d actively known for awhile and his knowledge of acts prior to 2002 would be brought up then.
Penn State athletic department deserves every bit of criticism it gets. Nothing could convince me otherwise.
Apologies in advance for my verbosity.
I’ve thought a lot about this, and I’m trying to put myself in Joe Paterno’s shoes when evaluating his behavior. (Keep in mind that I am basing this on the information we currently have, and I fully recognize that plenty of important details are still unknown.) At my job, I have both subordinates and superiors, and I work for a fairly large corporation that is very sensitive about their image. If one of my subordinates came to me with a report like this about another one of my subordinates, I have a hard time believing that I wouldn’t insist the accuser call the police. However, let’s set that aside for the moment and say that I instead choose only to pass it along to my superiors. Then what? There’s a conflict here between two men with whom I work routinely, and I would want that conflict resolved. If McQueary lied, then he should no longer have a job. If Sandusky is guilty, then the police should be involved. If (the best case scenario) McQueary misunderstood what he saw and nothing inappropriate took place at all…then what? I would fully expect my superiors to give me an update along the lines of, "Hey, I’d hate for you to have ugly suspicions about one of your employees, so I want you to know that McQueary was mistaken. It was all just a misunderstanding." And if I don’t hear something like that after a reasonable period of time, then I simply can’t imagine not wanting to follow up. Even discounting the fact that these people are my subordinates and that the accusation is especially serious, basic human curiosity would compel me to ask what came of it all. I wouldn’t want to wonder (even in the back of my mind) if one of my subordinates is a child molester or if another is a malicious liar.
Based on the information we’ve been given, we’re to believe that Mr. Paterno passed on the report and then just blithely continued about his business, working with both the accuser and the accused. That, to me, is utterly absurd; it goes against everything I’ve learned from my own experiences in the workplace. I contend that if Mr. Paterno truly never knew what happened after he passed on the information, it’s because he didn’t want to know. And given how high the stakes were for the child if the accusations were true, that’s simply unacceptable to me. I read an article on ESPN.com today where the author said that Mr. Paterno is from a different time when such things were literally unspeakable. Even if I buy that excuse (which I don’t), then I still believe that if Mr. Paterno hasn’t noticed that we do things differently in 2011, then he has no business being a leader of young men in 2011.
And ultimately, I think Mr. Paterno’s fate comes down to what we want from a leader. A head football coach is expected to be a role model for his players and millions of fans as well. We can and should hold them to a standard higher than just, "don’t break the law." A man who chooses to remain ignorant about a potential crime so heinous looks to me like a man who cares more about discretion for a university than the well being of a child. And that is not the sort of man that I would want in any leadership position. I wouldn’t want him guiding UGA football players; I wouldn’t want young UGA fans looking up to him; I wouldn’t want him representing my beloved alma mater. I believe that Mr. Paterno should resign effective immediately, and if he refuses, I think that the PSU faithful should insist that their school fire him. He may not be a criminal, but he’s no leader by any standard I would ever use.
by MidnightFrost1701 on Nov 9, 2011 8:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well said, MidnightFrost1701.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Manager, Dawg Sports, SB Nation's Georgia Bulldogs weblog.
Go 'Dawgs!
I approve.
It’s sad that his career will be defined by this, but not nearly as sad as it is for the children whose lives might not have been ruined had Mr. Paterno been a little more…inquisitive about the allegations.
by MidnightFrost1701 on Nov 9, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ultimately, there was no choice but to fire Joe Paterno.
If you remove the names and merely state the situation, the choice seems clear.
One of the most egregious crimes imaginable took place on his watch over a period of decades with his partial knowledge. Everyone above him in the chain has been fired. From an ethical standpoint for the Board of Trustees, there was no choice but to terminate the coach immediately.
I would also terminate Mike McQueary, who is still on staff as the Wide Receivers coach. He reported the incident 9 years ago, but he has been on campus ever since, moving up the coaching ranks, and never followed up or called law enforcement. His lack of follow-up on such a heinous activity moves him into the ethical realm of culpability in my eyes, too.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
the President & VP of the university both resigned, and the AD went on admin leave according to the last report I saw. Have there been reports that he was terminated as well?
Housemother & Editor at Dawg Sports
I can bake like a demon.
Actually, I believe the President was removed by the Board of Trustees...
… but even if he resigned (which the VP technically did), it wasn’t a voluntary resignation.
You’re correct, however, about the AD, unless his status has changed again. It was his legal right to request administrative leave until he is terminated with cause. He will certainly be fired upon his conviction.
And really, more to the point, the AD didn’t have a game on Saturday in which he was to be trotting out in front of 100,000+ people on national TV.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
admin leave, retired & resigned (in lieu of termination)
i guess is the right wording for the AD, VP, and President respectively.
Can the AD not be terminated while on leave?
This sucks all the way around for the students, faculty, alumni, athletes & fans, all of whom did nothing wrong :( I truly feel for them.
Housemother & Editor at Dawg Sports
I can bake like a demon.
There are truly no winners in this situation.
It’s sad, heartbreaking, infuriating, and nauseating all at the same time.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
by vineyarddawg on Nov 9, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Appreciate all the kind words,
y’all are too sweet.. I think could have spent days writing a piece on this subject and still felt that I missed important things.
Thank you, sincerely.
Housemother & Editor at Dawg Sports
I can bake like a demon.
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