College Football BlogPoll Ballot (Week Eight): The Revolt of the Twice-Beatens
by T Kyle King on Oct 25, 2011 8:45 AM EDT
in College Football BlogPoll
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PrintBecause the Bulldogs had a bye week, I was able to watch more football and reflect in greater depth upon the meaning of the various results when compiling my BlogPoll ballot. In addition, I am about 90 per cent recovered---all right, 85 per cent, but still---from the cold that dogged me all week last week, so I hope the following top 25 makes a mite more sense than it may have made in previous weeks:
Dawg Sports Ballot - Week 9
| Rank | Team | Delta |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Alabama Crimson Tide | -- |
| 2 | LSU Tigers | -- |
| 3 | Clemson Tigers | -- |
| 4 | Oklahoma St. Cowboys |  1 |
| 5 | Kansas St. Wildcats | 1 |
| 6 | Boise St. Broncos | 1 |
| 7 | Michigan St. Spartans | 3 |
| 8 | Stanford Cardinal | 6 |
| 9 | Penn St. Nittany Lions | 9 |
| 10 | Wisconsin Badgers |  -2 |
| 11 | Arkansas Razorbacks | -2 |
| 12 | Oregon Ducks | 1 |
| 13 | Oklahoma Sooners | -9 |
| 14 | Virginia Tech Hokies | 5 |
| 15 | USC Trojans | 8 |
| 16 | South Carolina Gamecocks | 1 |
| 17 | Nebraska Cornhuskers | -6 |
| 18 | Houston Cougars | 2 |
| 19 | Texas A&M Aggies | -- |
| 20 | Texas Tech Red Raiders | -- |
| 21 | Michigan Wolverines | -9 |
| 22 | Illinois Fighting Illini | -6 |
| 23 | Arizona St. Sun Devils | -- |
| 24 | Texas Longhorns | -- |
| 25 | Syracuse Orange | -- |
| Dropouts: Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, SMU Mustangs, Southern Miss. Golden Eagles, Washington Huskies, West Virginia Mountaineers | ||
SB Nation BlogPoll College Football Top 25 Rankings "
Though Louisiana State looked like the more dominant team on Saturday, the Crimson Tide have compiled the more impressive resume over the course of the season, convincingly beating eight Division I-A opponents, including No. 9 Penn State and No. 11 Arkansas. Those triumphs trump the Bayou Bengals’ best victories, over No. 12 Oregon and unranked West Virginia.
The Jungaleers narrowly edged out the Pokes for the No. 3 spot. It was a close call because, although Clemson’s best win (over No. 14 Virginia Tech) came against a better opponent than, and was more convincing than, Oklahoma State’s best win (over No. 19 Texas A&M), the Cowboys had a more solid second-best win (over No. 24 Texas). Moreover, the Tigers have more weak sisters on their slate (Division I-AA Wofford, one-win Boston College, and two-win Troy) than OSU (Arizona and Kansas, both 2-5). However, the combination of wins over Auburn, Florida State, and North Carolina, two of them by double-digit margins, gave the Fort Hill Felines the marginally better record of achievement.
I hated having to rank Kansas State fifth, but the Wildcats have beaten No. 20 Texas Tech, Baylor, and Miami, albeit by a combined 12 points. That’s still better than Boise State’s resume, which features a season-opening victory over Georgia and not much else; the Broncos’ second-best win was at Toledo.
Because of the flawed records compiled by some of the unbeatens, the Spartans were able to earn the No. 7 spot as the country’s highest-ranked one-loss team. Yes, Michigan State’s loss at Notre Dame stings, but MSU’s victories over No. 10 Wisconsin and No. 21 Michigan, both 6-1, carry considerable weight. This allowed Michigan State to overtake the Cardinal, whose 7-0 ledger includes wins over 5-2 Washington . . . and six teams with losing records. For all the grief Boise State gets for playing a weak schedule, Stanford has faced exactly as many legitimate opponents as the Broncos have: one.
I hated having to rank the Nittany Lions in the top ten, but four of Penn State’s Division I-A wins came against teams with winning records, one of which was 5-2 Iowa, and PSU’s lone loss was to No. 1 Alabama. Contrast that to the resume compiled by the Badgers, who defeated No. 17 Nebraska but otherwise beat absolutely no one; Wisconsin’s six victims include 2-5 Oregon State, 1-5 UNLV, 1-7 Indiana, and Division I-AA South Dakota.
The Hogs probably would’ve taken the Badgers’ place in the top ten, but the best win Arkansas can claim was a four-point comeback against No. 19 Texas A&M, and, while Wisconsin lost a nailbiter to No. 7 Michigan State, the Razorbacks nearly bit the dust against 2-5 Ole Miss. Oregon is basically Arkansas, except the Ducks’ best win was over No. 23 Arizona State. Oklahoma is basically Oregon, except the Sooners’ best win was over No. 24 Texas. Virginia Tech is basically Oklahoma, except the Hokies’ best win was over de facto No. 28 Wake Forest. Southern California is basically Virginia Tech, except the Trojans’ best win was over No. 25 Syracuse and USC’s lone loss was to a top 25 team, but not to a top ten team, which puts the Men of Troy behind Penn State, Wisconsin, Arkansas, Oregon, and Virginia Tech in the pecking order. (I freely concede, however, that Southern California’s win in South Bend over the selfsame Notre Dame team that defeated No. 7 Michigan State is a strong point in the Trojans’ favor, though the Spartans still are able to offset that loss with victories over the Wolverines and the Badgers. There also is a case to make for ranking USC ahead of Oklahoma, given the Sooners’ loss to Texas Tech, but I have the Red Raiders ranked higher than the Sun Devils, and Oklahoma’s loss was much closer than the Trojans’. This is, to put it delicately, an inexact science.)
The East Coast USC looks a lot like the West Coast USC, but the Gamecocks trail the Trojans because South Carolina’s best win is weaker (de facto No. 27 Georgia, as opposed to No. 25 Syracuse) and the Gamecocks’ lone loss is worse (unranked, three-loss Auburn at home, as opposed to No. 23, two-loss Arizona State on the road). Yes, South Carolina’s only setback was by three measly points . . . but so was the Palmetto State Poultry’s lone quality win.
Some may be puzzled to see the Cornhuskers languishing at No. 17, but a quick glance at Nebraska’s resume reveals that the Big Red Machine carded wins over two teams in the "others receiving consideration" category (neither of whom I would rank in the top 30); otherwise beat Division I-AA Chattanooga, 1-6 Minnesota, 3-5 Fresno State, and 4-3 Ohio State (by a touchdown at home); and was waxed by the one rankable team the ‘Huskers faced. Likewise, the Cougars’ 7-0 record was not impressive enough to advance Houston past No. 18, as the Conference USA frontrunner’s only victory over a Division I-A team with a winning record came against UTEP by seven points.
The Aggies check in as the poll’s highest-ranked two-loss team, thanks to two factors: Texas A&M beat a trio of two-loss teams (No. 20 Texas Tech, Baylor, and SMU), and Texas A&M lost to No. 4 Oklahoma State and No. 11 Arkansas by a combined five points. Despite an otherwise suspect resume featuring wins over two-win Kansas, winless New Mexico, and a Division I-AA Texas State squad playing without Scott Bakula, Sinbad, or Kathy Ireland, Texas Tech sneaked into the top 25 on the strength of the Red Raiders’ road win over Oklahoma and five- and seven-point losses to No. 19 Texas A&M and No. 5 Kansas State, respectively. Also, Texas Tech earned points when the school’s fans coined the phrase "wasted away again in Tommy Tuberville."
The Wolverines, despite being 6-1, suffer from much the same problem as Nebraska, as Michigan boasts a lack of quality wins (San Diego State is the Maize and Blue’s best victim) and a lack of competitiveness in the team’s only loss (to Michigan State). The Fighting Illini boast a quality win (over No. 23 Arizona State), but Illinois is harmed by a pair of defeats at the hands of 4-3 teams. The Sun Devils, bolstered by their win over the Trojans, landed one spot in back of the team to whom they lost by a field goal.
The Longhorns, though not competitive in their two losses to top 15 teams, beat Brigham Young, which was enough to make Texas the fourth highest-ranked squad from the Lone Star State. The Orange beat a pair of 5-2 teams, allowing Syracuse to get the nod over a Baylor outfit whose only quality win was a two-point victory over Texas Christian.
As promised, I looked at every team with two or fewer losses, except a two-loss team or two in the Sun Belt because, come on, it’s the Sun Belt. However, my Nos. 26 through 40 are, in order, the Baylor Bears, Georgia Bulldogs, Wake Forest Demon Deacons, San Diego St. Aztecs, Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, Washington Huskies, SMU Mustangs, TCU Horned Frogs, Cincinnati Bearcats, BYU Cougars, Rutgers Scarlet Knights, West Virginia Mountaineers, Southern Miss. Golden Eagles, Iowa Hawkeyes, and Wyoming Cowboys. I will be happy to explain any of those placements, but this posting is long enough already, so, if you’re curious, just ask in the comments below.
I watched all or significant portions of the Arizona-UCLA game on Thursday night, the Syracuse-West Virginia game on Friday night, and the Clemson-North Carolina, Auburn-LSU, Alabama-Tennessee, and Michigan State-Wisconsin games on Saturday.
I’m feeling pretty good about that ballot, but I’m sure that merely means I’ve overlooked something enormous. Please feel free to offer your constructive criticisms in the comments below.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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Nice work...
I enjoy watching your poll evolve each week as more information is presented (e.g. wins and losses).
While UGA is ranked in all major polls, including the BCS, it’s hard to argue for their inclusion considering they haven’t beaten a single team of substance yet (although, the homer in me shakes my head at teams like Syracuse and Illinois being ranked while UGA sits outside the poll). Hopefully, that will change after this weekend…(I am curious how much credit you’d give UGA for beating a Florida team on a four-game losing streak…cart; before horse; I know!)
More importantly, I’m glad you’re feeling better. We need all of your hate and energy directed toward the Gators this week, not an illness!
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
Everyone keeps talking about FL's losing streak...
But their three losses were to Alabama, LSU, and Auburn, and they were all without the starting quarterback. With Brantley back, a loss to UGA will be much more significant than the first three in my mind.
Correct...
But Kyle, generally, bases his rankings on resume alone and does not view the teams subjectively.
We’re better than Syracuse, Illinois, and some other teams in the poll, and there’s no way, with the loss of Lattimore, South Carolina is the 16th best team in the country. They aren’t.
As such, who has Florida beaten? Their current wins: UT, UAB, Florida Atlantic and Kentucky. Horrible.
I know they are a good team, and UGA should get credit for beating them (they are still Florida), but if Kyle hasn’t ranked us yet, and has ranked teams like Syracuse and Illinois, why would he give us credit for beating a 4-4 team with the trash wins I’ve listed above?
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
Well to respond makes it look like I'm trying to talk for Kyle, which isn't true. I think we're better than a few of those teams.
He knows a lot more about this than me and I’m not trying to argue at all, much less for somebody else. But if you go by that system, none of our remaining opponents will probably be ranked. So we could go 10-2 and be unranked?
At some point I think you just have to give credit for winning football games against athletes that want to tear your head off in a subjective way (because people are trying to beat IL and Syracuse too). I, like you, can’t comprehend the concept of Syracuse being a top 25 team. I’d say his ranking us lower might be influenced a little by his natural bias to pessimism as a UGA fan during GA/FL week.
Ha...
I’m generally the only one who comments about this Blog Poll each week, so I hope Kyle’s not getting annoyed with me.
In fairness, I am curious why very few of the Dawg Sports readers don’t have opinions on the rankings of teams outside of the SEC. While, ultimately, it’s pointless, it’s still fun!
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
I had to double-check
But it appears as if there are indeed teams outside of the SEC.
For example the Texas A&M Aggies and the Missouri Tigers are two teams in the Big…
Wait? What? They’re now in the SEC? Dang.
Let me look again.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
I always appreciate your insights and inquiries, Jman781.
I’m not getting annoyed with you at all.
One thing to remember about resume ranking is that the value of a given win or loss changes over time. Every win by Boise State or South Carolina makes Georgia’s losses to those teams more forgivable; every loss by a team the Bulldogs have beaten makes the Red and Black’s victories over those clubs less valuable. In other words, Georgia’s resume next Sunday morning will consist of eight data points, each of which will be slightly different from what it was one week earlier (except for Coastal Carolina, of course, as I give no credit for beating a Division I-AA team).
As for your specific question, I had Syracuse 25th, Baylor 26th, and Georgia 27th. All three are two-loss teams with respectable losses: Syracuse lost to two teams with a combined 11-3 record, with one loss on the road and one loss by three points; Baylor lost to two teams with a combined 12-2 record, with both losses on the road and one loss by one point; Georgia lost to two teams with a combined 13-1 record, with one loss at a neutral site and one loss by three points.
The Orange, the Bears, and the Bulldogs all beat one Division I-AA opponent. In their wins over Division I-A competition, Syracuse beat four teams with a combined 17-13 record, including a pair of 5-2 teams (Wake Forest and West Virginia); Baylor beat three teams with a combined 10-11 record, including a 5-2 team (TCU); Georgia beat four teams with a combined 12-16 record, only one of which (4-3 Vanderbilt, whom Georgia beat by five points) does not have a losing record.
Do I believe the Bulldogs are better than Syracuse and Baylor? Yes, though I wouldn’t be thrilled to see the Bears’ quarterback in action against our defense. However, as we have established regularly, I am bad at predicting what will happen on the field of play next Saturday, so I am better off judging teams upon the basis of what they did on previous Saturdays, and what Georgia has done over the course of the last six Saturdays is beat a bunch of weak teams. I think Boise State is better than Kansas State, too, but the Broncos haven’t faced a schedule that proves it.
I freely concede that the fear of jinxing my own team is a subconscious factor in my rankings, however. I hope that explains it, even if not to your satisfaction. Thanks, as always, for asking.
Go 'Dawgs!
I like your method...
Even if I disagree, for you don’t allow bias to overcome your rankings.
I am naturally biased against teams like Houston, Syracuse, etc., for I tend to play the “if they were in the SEC they wouldn’t have the same record, or if UGA played their schedule we’d be undefeated, too” game. I truly believe UGA would be undefeated with Houston’s schedule, since their toughest game was against UCLA, but the game is pointless, for UGA isn’t playing Houston’s schedule or vice versa.
I acknowledged above that UGA hasn’t beaten anyone, so, objectively, I’m not sure they should be ranked. That said, I think they should be ranked if they beat the Gators, even if the Gators have an underwhelming resume.
Yes, I know. Cart…way before horse.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
But Kyle, generally, bases his rankings on resume alone and does not view the teams subjectively
Clemson at #4 disagrees.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
In principle, I agree with you, but I ask sincerely . . .
. . . what team I have ranked behind Clemson has accomplished more on the field than the Tigers?
Go 'Dawgs!
Notre Dame
Has got to be a better win for Michigan than San Diego St.
When I first read through the rankings, I felt like I disagreed, but then I read through all the teams schedules… and now it makes much more sense. Great article. GO DAWGS!
Fair point, TexasDawg86.
Notre Dame is overrated, but I probably underrated the Irish by putting them below San Diego State.
Go 'Dawgs!
And naturally we can't be ranked
until after TWLOCP. Or as Mike Adams would like us to call it, “The Georgia Florida Football Classic.”
UGA Class of 2013
oh is THAT
what he calls it?
i honestly could not have told you the “official” name.
I can bake like a demon.
That's because Michael Adams doesn't sign your paycheck.
If anything, irritation with this eye-rollingly absurd administrative effort at the artificial imposition of a euphemism has increased the frequency with which fans use the term “World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party.”
Go 'Dawgs!
It's the Battle for the Oar, baby!
The Oppugning by the Okefenokee!
(Or not.)
by vineyarddawg on Oct 26, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
In fact, I was looking up
a stat about the game on Wikipedia, and the article is no longer called WLOCP… sad day indeed.
And I know EVERY single one of my professors calls it WLOCP; no one calls it by some politically correct name.
UGA Class of 2013
by monty_python on Oct 26, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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