Monday Morning Dawg Bites - Hatin' Ain't Easy Edition
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 8:36 AM EDT
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We're starting a Monday, Wednesday, and Friday morning links post here at DawgSports that will entail some Dawg news, some College Football news, and whatever other news might happen to be included because it's interesting as well. Oh, and I think someone told me once that it's great to be a Gator Hater...not sure what relevance that has to this week's game, but I'm including it here too. Dig in.
- The Good Senator Blutarsky asks sort of a Chicken and Egg conundrum here. Does Coach Bobo need to coach up his players more, or could our sophomore quarterback have a few more growing pains than we thought?
- Seth Emerson has some notes on Richt's teleconference from last night.
- Will Muschamp seems to think the Gators aren't that far away from the SEC's elite. Here's to hoping the Dawgs can offer a nice retort to that sentiment.
- Edward Aschoff of ESPN offers his SEC Bowl Projections. Would anyone here have been unhappy with an Outback Bowl appearance before the season?
- Georgia has moved out of the "Others Receiving Votes" category, and is now a Top 25 team, according to the BCS and others. I like it, but I'm an eternal optimist. If you think it's a death knell...well, what HASN'T been a death knell heading to Jax in the last 20 years?
- Finally, the weather forecast for Jacksonville on Saturday. Sunny and in the 70s? Sounds like a perfect day to feast on some alligator tail.
You can always find more Bulldogs vs Gators coverage from the SBNation game page. Oh, and have you hated your Gator today?
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It ain't fair. The Gators make it so easy to make fun of and to HATE
I give you a glance at the evidence
I HATE ORANGE and GREEN notebooks
I got a picture with that kid from last year's Louisiana-Lafayette game
It made my day.
The 984 Has Spoken!
On the Bobo/Murray thing...
I’m interested to hear thoughts from the readers here. I know there’s been a lot of talk about Bobo and some of his maddening play calls, but based on what is said in that link by all parties involved, it certainly seems like some of the playcalling still me be handcuffed by Murray’s mental readiness. Say what you will about Bobo, but that play worked splendidly…and if the only reason it hasn’t been run sooner is because it was too complex for Murray…well, to me, that seems like an issue with our QB.
QB development
Is something that Bobo would be responsible for as well. Also, Murray is only midway through his second year, so I have a little more credit for him than Bobo in that case. Really, complaints about Bobo are significantly less than earlier in the season.
Agreed on the QB development,
but that’s never really been a weak spot of Bobo’s, given his track record, so I tend to give him a pass there.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. Since Bobo has been OC
Stafford really underperformed and had MASSIVE go to talent to match his arm. Bobo didnt’ Coach him up, Stafford was just able to throw very deep bombs with ease. But his attitude was never quite one of a complete leader. Joe Cox threw 2.5 INTs a game if you take out cupcakes – that’s good QB development? We started Joe Cox in his 5th year with no experience, and then started a RS Freshman last year. That’s good QB development? David Greene’s success was because he was hand in glove with Coach Richt’s play action calling. Bobo had nothing to do with it.
If Bobo was so good, why is he paid so little by comparison and why is it that no one wants to hire him?
"I don't care for Auburn."
Look at Stafford's development from year to year.
You think that was all on Stafford? Come on. Murray’s year last year…we can chalk that up to Murray coaching himself? You point to one year of Joe Cox and blame it on Bobo, but completely leave out DJ Shockley?
You’re letting your disdain for Bobo the playcaller overflow into everything else. Stop bringing the other factors into play here and look at it from the development of a quarterback perspective. Quarterback depth development is not what I’m talking about…I’m talking about the improving play of our starting quarterback on a year-to-year basis. Stafford’s leadership is neither here nor there…I don’t personally understand why so many folks have this idea that Stafford underperformed. Our offense was fairly prolific with Stafford, and if you pair that with the defenses of 2002-2005 or the defense of this year, you’re likely looking at undefeated seasons. Yes, Stafford threw some maddening picks, but that’s because he trusts his arm a little too much. His TD/INT ratio improved each year, and that’s directly related to coaching.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Stafford would have shined if my HS coach was the OC.
Once the raw talent of Shockley and Stafford is removed, we now see it for how it is. Aaron Murray’s success last year came because he made miracles happen. If we are talking improving play, well, AM is having a slightly worse year this year than last, and the D isnt a problem this round.
I can call Stafford to MoMass 10 times a game. That doesnt make me a good coach. And the trips to Atlanta have stopped since Bobo became OC.
UGA will never win a NC with Bobo as OC in my opinion.
"I don't care for Auburn."
The trips to Atlanta stopped since Willie Martinez became DC.
It’s not fair to say that the trips have stopped because of the offense, when we pretty much all know that it was because of the defense.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Vacuums are are a good tool.
Oh defense is doing fine this year Our O Stats run in the 40s and 50s in the nation. And have been.
"I don't care for Auburn."
The fact on this one is that you have two people,
Bobo and Brown, both saying they liked a play but Murray didn’t like it because it was too complex for him to understand. Once he finally started understanding the play, Bobo brought it out. He’s doing the same thing Malzahn did…not asking his quarterback to do what he can’t understand, until he can understand it.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No, your opinion won't be changed.
At this point (and I mean this with all due respect), I think you’re taking the Bobo thing too far. You’re unable to discuss any aspect of offensive performance without it turning into a huge Bobo slamfest, and when someone posits that something could be on the quarterback and not the offensive coordinator, you respond with hyperbole that adds nothing to your argument, then state “I am done.” I’m completely open to changing my opinion based on rational points, but the points you’re making right now seem to be much more based in a hatred of Bobo than in objectivity.
You refuse to give Bobo credit for any good quarterback play that may have occurred, and rather, credit any positive quarterback performance to the talent of the individual, as opposed to the coach. You point to Stafford, Shockley, and Murray as examples of talent overcoming the atrocity of coaching that is Mike Bobo, but then blame Bobo for any of their shortcomings, as well as the Joe Cox experiment…so which is it, tank? Either the performances of all of guys he coached are attributable to him, or none of them are…but you can’t pick and choose and say that the bad ones are on Bobo and the good ones are on their own laurels. Plenty of very reasonable and educated football minds are on record saying that Mike Bobo is a pretty damned good quarterbacks coach, so pardon me if I don’t completely subscribe to your opinion.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not muckbeast.
Football teams on the field have offenses, defenses, and special teams.
Our offense has stranded our defense for years, the difference is now we have a good defense.
Can we remember we are (virtual) friends.
Our offensive stats don’t support a good offense.
"I don't care for Auburn."
tank, I didn't mean that to come off in an unfriendly manner.
I do remember that we are (virtual) friends, and if you took that comment as me being unfriendly, then I sincerely apologize. That’s not how it was intended.
It’s important for you to understand that while you may really not like Bobo, there are others who are okay with him. Sure, there are times when I want to strangle him, but I feel like that pretty much comes with the territory. There’s never going to be an offensive coordinator who I will agree with all the time. The fact of the matter is that huge talent or not, Bobo’s had pretty good offensive years the past several years, so I have faith that he’ll be okay this year as well. It’s not easy to lose two of your best receivers, two most seasoned runningbacks, and completely change the focus of the offense from complete I-Formation to more Shotgun Spread geared and not expect some growing pains. I’m just saying let’s see how the year ends up.
The fact of the matter (in regards to my opinion) is that I’ve listened and read about you bashing Bobo on a regular basis for the better part of two months, and I’ve remained mostly quiet. I finally get fed up with it and post a comment about it, and you turn it around to reminding me that we’re virtual friends. Again, if I stepped on your toes with my words, I apologize, but it’s no different than what you’ve been doing to me with some of the anti-Bobo rants throughout the course of the season.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me ask this in all fairness:
Our offensive numbers still are that great.
Why was it ok, and even funny, to hate on Martinez, and continue to do so, but not ok for me to make an argument that his playcalling and coaching is not good?
With our Defense this year, our O should be running up some stats. And I stand by the fact that when you have the talent of Stafford with WRs than can catch 50 yard passes every game, it isn’t really great coaching, its just saying – go do it Stafford.
But again, it’s ok to critize Martinez, but not Bobo, when in fact, the reason we lost our two games had as much, if not more, to do with the Offense, then the Defense.
"I don't care for Auburn."
I see where you're coming from, tankertoad, . . .
. . . but I don’t know that anyone believes Mike Bobo should be above criticism. There just are different aspects of his job, at which he arguably succeeds or fails to different degrees. He is the offensive coordinator, in which capacity he calls plays that sometimes succeed and sometimes are maddening, and he is the quarterbacks coach, in which capacity he tutors players at that position. It’s entirely possible that he is better at one job than at the other.
Willie Martinez, by contrast, was a competent secondary coach when he was just a position coach, but, when he became defensive coordinator, both our defense overall, and our secondary specifically, became markedly worse. Coach Martinez, as defensive coordinator, was bad at everything, and almost uniformly so. What I take hailtogeorgia to be saying is that Coach Bobo is inconsistent at many things, but is a better position coach than he is a play-caller.
As someone who understands and respects both of your points of view, I believe those are distinctions about which reasonable Georgia fans may disagree civilly.
Go 'Dawgs!
Which is a fair criticism of Mike Bobo as a play-caller.
It may, or may not, reflect poorly upon him as a quarterbacks coach, though.
Go 'Dawgs!
Bobo could be the same
as imo, his positional group has failed to develop beyond throw it to great talents, or use their great throwing talent, since he became OC/QB coach as opposed to just QB coach. We score, yeah, but how much of that is superior talent with AJ, Moreno, and Stafford making plays.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
That's a perfectly valid position.
I wasn’t trying to take a side, I was just trying to keep a legitimate debate from getting needlessly heated. It may, or may not, be as fair to be critical of Mike Bobo as a quarterbacks coach as it is to be critical of Mike Bobo as an offensive coordinator, but those are two different (albeit related) discussions. He may be bad at both, but being bad at one does not necessarily mean he’s bad at the other.
Go 'Dawgs!
There's nothing wrong with criticizing Bobo.
I haven’t raised any objections to your criticism of him up to this point. What’s frustrating to me is that I was asking whether or not Aaron Murray’s mental aptitude around comprehending the offense may still be limiting our offensive output, and it was twisted into another bash Bobo session without addressing the question that was posed.
Is it not entirely reasonable to think that, with the change in offensive strategies, Aaron Murray may have had some difficulties adjusting to the new concepts, which could contribute to our offense performing poorly? On that same note, could it not be possible that Mike Bobo may, in fact, be a decent play caller, but he’s had to limit the plays he could call in the shotgun spread attack to plays with which Aaron Murray feels comfortable? Would this particular anecdote (which was confirmed by all parties involved) not support that particular hypothesis, in that Bobo had a play that worked like a charm, but he had to wait until his (still) young quarterback could master the play before he could call it?
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
When we work the true play action pass with short throws and "occasional" bomb
AM does fine,and I support CMB’s calls. It’s the other 75% of the time I have a problem with. A good leader and coach works on weaknesses in practice, and goes to strengths in the game.
No, I do not believe CMB is a decent play caller and never has been. Given education and wisdom, I could call a great game, but if I have to “wait” unil my QB gets it, I am failing as a leader and coach.
As a flight instructor, I had the ability to fly 3 feet from another aeroplane upside down. I didn’t expect my student to be able to do the same. Nor did I ask my student to do the same until he worked to that level.
"I don't care for Auburn."
So what you're essentially saying...
is that when Bobo calls the plays with which Aaron Murray is most familiar (traditional I-form type offense with a healthy dose of play action, safe throws that are short, and an occasional deep ball), the offense is successful and you support his calls. However, the offense has been changed, and now Murray is less familiar with the calls, which means you may see some changes in ability to execute…meaning that the play calls could be okay, but the execution is lacking.
As a flight instructor, I had the ability to fly 3 feet from another aeroplane upside down. I didn’t expect my student to be able to do the same. Nor did I ask my student to do the same until he worked to that level. (emphasis added)
This is precisely what I’m saying, tank. Bobo had a play that worked splendidly when called, but he couldn’t call it (and didn’t call it) until Murray understood the play…ergo, Murray’s comprehension of the offense may be limiting our abilities to some extent. All I’m saying is let’s see how the year pans out…it looks like Murray is becoming more familiar, so let’s see how it works out.
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't seen any of our QBs "develop" under Bobo
these guys can make reads and make throws, that’s why we sign them in the first place. But I don’t see steady improvements out of any of our QBs beyond their natural ability and what you glean from simply playing. I may be wrong, and if there’s #s that prove me wrong, I’d love to see them. But my simple, uneducated opinion is Bobo is not making our QBs better. And DJ/Greene don’t count much in my eyes, because they were under the closer eye of Richt who was still OC (or play caller if you want to argue semantics since Callaway was the “Offensive coordinator”) during their time.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
tank, don't be silly.
There are plenty of people who agree with you. Reasonable people, however, may disagree (as I do…not with all points you make, but with some).
by hailtogeorgia on Oct 24, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Says who?
Shotgun spread handoffs in the redzone? That’s CMB, not AM. Using our RBs for needless 3 and outs? CMB. If AM can’t handle a play, and CMB calls it anyway? That’s CMB. Calling a 4th bomb on 3rd and midrange when the previous 3 didnt work? CMB, not AM. Not coaching AM to hit is almost always wide open checkdown TE – coaching, not AM.
Stop telling me AM is a great QB then tell me is “isnt ready”. Either AM isnt that good, or Bobo doesnt use him right. And AM is a redshirt sophomore, that’s 3 years in. He aint a rookie.
Guz Malzan didnt ask Cam Newton to do more than he was capable of, and then blame the execution. He found ways to maximize talent.
"I don't care for Auburn."
I agree with a lot of your criticism.
Bobo often makes maddening calls that don’t make much sense. I’m not here to be his apologist.
But what tempers my pessimism about Bobo is this: from 2005 to the present, we’ve had some of the most consistent QB play in the league. Outside of the unique Florida/Tebow marriage and Cam Newton last year, I think all of our rivals would improve their QB play if they could get what we average. Year after year, our guys are playing among the best in the SEC at their position – even Joe Cox in 2009.
Sure, it helps to have blue chip recruits. Shockley, Stafford, and Murray (and, fingers crossed, LeMay) are all guys with natural gifts at their position. But other teams have had great recruits that didn’t pan out, and goodness knows we’ve had other positions stocked with “talent” that never panned out.
I’ll take him bringing Murray along slowly if the result is a win in Jacksonville, against Auburn in Athens, and against Tech.
by first and thom on Oct 24, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
RE: Bobo/Murray thing...a short novel
I don’t think that anyone can argue that there are plays that Murray is having problems mentally grasping, especially after he admits it in that article. I am sure not everyone grasps Thermodynamics and Metaphysics on the first go as well. I was always under the assumption that a good Offensive Coordinator could work with his talent level and develop plays that allowed the team to perform those plays to the success of the team. What is troubling is that the entire coaching staff is in agreement that Murray is our starting quarterback, has the most talent and has the most knowledge of the play book. If Murray cannot grasp some of the plays where does that leave us with Mason, Welch, Lemay and Tamburo (should I use an Oxford comma there)? I think that is good to introduce more complex plays and challenge the talents, what I do not agree with is the mindset that if a player cannot grasp the play, then Bobo goes to the Middle School section of the DGNB and goes back to off-guard time after time.
Just as much as the maddening Middle School plays, Murray’s mental readiness is not the reason Bobo has a different idea of what works outside the red-zone and what will succeed inside the red zone. Murray’s ability seems to work just fine until we get into the red zone and then the play calling switches and we end up attempting a field goal. UGA is currently 46th in total offense this year, 36th in Scoring Offense, 49th in red zone conversions (26 attempts with 15 TDs and 7 FGs compared to a 2010 of 55 attempts with 34 TDs and 15 FGs). I understand that the defense tightens up, closes gaps, switches coverage to make a short field even smaller, but we have all commented on how frustrating the offense seems to shut down once they hit the 20. IS this Murray’s ability or Bobo’s play calling? Murray’s mindset also has nothing to do with the utilization of a player on certain plays. Running RSIV on a toss sweep and Malcome up the middle, I mean just why?
So to answer your original question, there are facets of Murray’s play that has bothered me this year. He seems to have streaks of happy feet, he seems more hesitant to tuck it and run leading to him forcing more passes into coverage that he should avoid, he has -3 yard rushing this year compared to 167 last year (yes, I know that includes sacks). While all of that might spell disaster, he is currently ranked 42nd in the nation with a 150.33 rating against the 14th, 7th, 110th, 32nd, 48th, and 23rd rated total defenses in DIV I FBS. Keenum (the number one QB in FBS) has faced the 106th, 108th, 63rd, 91st, 71st, and 85th rated defenses. Likewise, Moore outside of facing the 6th rated DAWGS defense has gone against the 49th, 102nd, 50th, 93rd, 87th and 105th. Bottom line is there room for improvement…YES; could we be in a worse position…YES.
As for Bobo, he is responsible for the development of the Quarterbacks as well as the Offense. He better than anyone should be aware of what plays Murray is ready for. He is also responsible for developing the flow and consistency of the offense; this is where I seem to have more issues. There have been many times this year where we have resembled a well-oiled machine and others a Chinese Fire Drill.
AND I HATE FLORIDA
I HATE ORANGE and GREEN notebooks
by Dawg2011 on Oct 24, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We throw short passes, work the play action, run, hit the posts and slants. Get CT to the corner.
Until we stop. And then go shotgun spread on the 20, and throw fades AM misses on without AJ, or handoff to RSIV.
AM had success last year because the play calling was so atrocious he just played back yard ball and ran around and found someone or took off for some yardage. And he had AJ Greene reeling in the uncatchable.
When we call WildDawg 2, there is only one problem in the stadium.
"I don't care for Auburn."
Pretty sure
the redheaded guy is actually a UGA alum/fan making fun of the Gators. I swear I’ve seen this guy at other UGA games in completely normal getup…….didn’t mean to ruin it though. By all means, keep thinking he’s a gator.
A wayward dawg in Memphis looking for the voice of reason
To completely change the tone of the comments
I’m confused as to their bowl predictions. Not so much ours, as I think an invite to the Outback means we win out and probably get slammed in the SECCG or SC wins out and gets slammed in the SECCG (and let’s go with that for argument’s sake), but the rest of their predictions don’t match up with the remaining schedule and/or reality.
If LSU wins out and goes to the BCSCG, that means they’d beat Arkansas in the last game of the regular season. Does Arky still rate a C1 bowl berth with a loss that late in the year? MAYBE if they lose a shootout, thus finding a way through the vaunted LSU defense.
If USC manages to run the table (unlikely), that would mean they’d have beaten Arkansas as well. Does Arky still rate a C1 berth (the C1 IS still the SEC’s top non-BCS bowl, right?). And if USC beats them, wouldn’t records and geographic considerations lead to USC in the C1 and Arky in the Cotton?
By getting a bid to the Outback over Auburn, wouldn’t that assume a UGA victory in that matchup? And if we continue on with Bama in the Sugar, that would assume a Bama victory in the Iron Bowl. That would leave Auburn with 5 losses (albeit all to ranked teams, with a “signature” win over USC). I think that’s probably a “best of the worst” scenario for the SEC and the Gator Bowl.
UF would, to follow along from above, be assumed to have future losses to UGA and USC, leaving them at 7-5 provided they win their other games (and that’s a bit presumptuous with FSU on the tail end). If that plays out, their loss to Auburn would give them a correct seeding in the Peach-Fil-A bowl.
UT should expect to lose to USC and Arky, having to beat Vandy* just to be bowl-eligible.
With their projected loss to UT, along with projected loses to Arky and UF, Vandy has to beat Wake Forest to become eligible. Given that, with the loss to UT, would put them in the correct position in the pecking order. Except….
MSU will have expected losses to Bama and Arky, then win the rest of their games to be bowl-eligible. That would give them wins over powerhouses such as Memphis, Louisiana Tech, UT Martin, Kentucky, UAB and Ole Miss. Vandy would at least have wins over 4 BCS schools (none of them respectable except maybe Wake, but still). If anything, with no head-to-head and an identical 2-6 conference record, Vandy should get the invite to the Liberty Bowl. They probably won’t since it won’t do much for Memphis’ travel and tourism, but it’s not like it can’t be a day trip from Starkville either.
In short, I have no idea why I get so worked up over these during the season bowl projections, but they always seem to be based on the resume so far rather than actual season projections. Except they’re not, when it comes to the high-level bowls. I just ask for logic, about which I should know better…
*Note that I don’t mention having to beat Kentucky as anyone’s requirement because, well, I think Collins Hill could beat them by 2 TDs.
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