Week One BlogPoll Ballot Draft: Boise State, Alabama, and Ohio State Stay on Top
by T Kyle King on Sep 7, 2010 12:30 PM EDT
in Football
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PrintAttached below is the first draft of my week one BlogPoll ballot for your review and comment. With respect to what follows, I will offer a few general observations:
- Because not all teams have played legitimate competition, my starting point for this week’s ballot was my preseason ballot. Next week, there likely will be more movement than there was this week.
- As I noted in last night’s comment thread, I generally left teams more or less where they were if they did more or less what they were expected to do. Teams that exceeded expectations were rewarded; teams that failed to meet expectations were punished.
- Poor offensive performances (such as those by Florida, Iowa, and Texas) caused teams to drop; poor defensive performances (such as those by Auburn, Houston, and Oklahoma) caused the perpetrators to suffer, as well.
- I feel completely vindicated in my decision not to rank either the USC Trojans or the Wisconsin Badgers.
- My brother-in-law, Travis Rice, feels completely vindicated in his annual proclamation that, every time a pollster ranks the Pittsburgh Panthers, an angel loses its wings.
- We had this discussion when Appalachian State beat the Michigan Wolverines, but, no, I can’t rank Jacksonville State.
Dawg Sports Ballot - Week 2
| Rank | Team | Delta |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Boise St. Broncos | -- |
| 2 | Alabama Crimson Tide | -- |
| 3 | Ohio St. Buckeyes | -- |
| 4 | Oregon Ducks |  4 |
| 5 | TCU Horned Frogs | 2 |
| 6 | Nebraska Cornhuskers | 5 |
| 7 | Penn St. Nittany Lions | 7 |
| 8 | Texas Longhorns |  -2 |
| 9 | Iowa Hawkeyes | -4 |
| 10 | Miami Hurricanes | 7 |
| 11 | Utah Utes | -- |
| 12 | Florida Gators | -8 |
| 13 | BYU Cougars | -- |
| 14 | Virginia Tech Hokies | -5 |
| 15 | Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets | 3 |
| 16 | Fresno St. Bulldogs | -- |
| 17 | South Carolina Gamecocks | 4 |
| 18 | Georgia Bulldogs | -- |
| 19 | Florida St. Seminoles | -- |
| 20 | Houston Cougars | -1 |
| 21 | Arizona Wildcats | 2 |
| 22 | Oklahoma St. Cowboys | -- |
| 23 | Oklahoma Sooners | -8 |
| 24 | Texas A&M Aggies | -- |
| 25 | Arkansas Razorbacks | -- |
| Dropouts: Pittsburgh Panthers, North Carolina Tar Heels, LSU Tigers, Auburn Tigers, Washington Huskies, Clemson Tigers, Southern Miss. Golden Eagles | ||
SB Nation BlogPoll College Football Top 25 Rankings "
I wish to stress that this is a BlogPoll ballot draft. Your comments, questions, constructive criticisms, and persuasive cases are welcome and openly solicited.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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I think Tech is a bit high.
I’m not in favor of you ranking us above them (and frankly we may be a bit high as well) but if you compare their stats against ours, it’s difficult to justify moving them up in my mind.
The whole basis of the perception of Georgia Tech as a Top 25 is based on their OMG awesome offense…the one that gained 7 more yard than Georgia (except it was against an FCS team — albeit a good FCS team). Their defense which we’ve been told is going to have no problem adjusting to the 3-4 gave up more than 100 yds more than Georgia (to an FCS team).
While I don’t believe they should be ranked below us (primarily for superstitious reasons, I also don’t think they should be ahead of South Carolina (or if we want a trendy pick with a high flying offense — East Carolina for that matter.)
In my view their positioning in any poll at this point in time is based solely on Pre-Season expectations.
But, by all means, keep them ahead of us. I don’t care if you have to drop us to #64… just keep the voodoo going.
(P.S. Our freshman QB rushed for more YPC than their “Heisman candidate” QB. Just sayin’)
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't."
- Lewis Grizzard
I stopped reading at
Boise State…They are not the best team in the country. Top 10, maybe, but not the best. I will now use the hackneyed argument that if you put Boise State in the SEC, they lose two or more games, easily. A win against a “top” ACC team at a neutral site does not make Boise State the top team in the nation…While one cannot fault Boise State for having to play in the horrendous WAC, one cannot assume that they would be dominant in the SEC, Big Ten, Pac-10, etc. either.
It’s early, but I don’t see BSU losing again. Thus, will you keep them perched perpetually at the top of the ballot as long as they don’t lose? If not, you are just as guilty as those voters who decided to drop UGA in the 2007 polls after LSU won the SEC Championship. Either BSU is worthy of the top spot or they are not.
Sorry. The BSU/TCU type teams get me riled up.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Well, in all fairness...
…he had them at the top spot last week, and they went out and beat a top-tier ACC team in a virtual away game. You can say it was a neutral field if you like, but they played across the country in VT’s backyard…that’s not a neutral field.
At this point, we don’t know what to make of that game, so you have to take it for what it is. They beat a top ten opponent, which is more than can be said for Alabama or Ohio State. As the season pans out, we’ll see how impressive this win is or isn’t, but right now, you can’t really fault Kyle for ranking them first when they currently have the most impressive win.
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree.
BSU had the most impressive win of the weekend.
It’s just a preference in voting. You can either (a) vote based on past performance only or (b) vote on past performance in conjunction with how you perceive the season will play out.
If based on past performance only, teams like Florida and Oklahoma deserve to be dropped significantly and BSU should be #1.
I generally like to rank teams (not that I have a vote) based not only on what they have done, but on what would happen if the of the season “goes as planned.” Thus, I would have Alabama ahead of BSU, for I feel that a 1-loss Bama team is better than an undefeated BSU team (assumptions that are currently not disproved). I suppose if VT ends up 11-1 and ACC Champs and Oregon State ends up 10-2 and Pac-10 champs, I may change my tune (but I will guarantee that will not happen).
But as was the case in 2007 when UGA was ranked #2 prior to championship weekend, the voters knew that teams like LSU could win their conferences PRIOR to them actually winning. Why did they rank UGA ahead LSU only to drop them when LSU won the SEC? Couldn’t they have just ranked LSU ahead of UGA and then DROP LSU had they lost?
Thus, why rank BSU at #1 unless you refuse to move them out of that spot as long as they remain unbeaten. If you think think that Bama or OSU (or any other team) will overtake BSU as the season progesses despite BSU never losing, then rank those teams ahead of BSU now…You can always move BSU up later.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
I think you will find
Kyle likely will compensate for the “if the season goes as planned” bit as the season goes. That is, Boise won’t necessarily keep the top spot if it continues to win games. Some other team’s victories will start to look better once they play somebody.
by NCT on Sep 7, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If only the real polls worked that way...
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't."
- Lewis Grizzard
Yeah...
I figure that he’s a week to week ranker, which is fine…I just can’t believe that TCU, Utah, and BSU are three of the top eleven (and two of the top five) programs in the country
Yes. I am biased toward power conferences.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Whoops...
Forgot BYU at 13, Fresno State at 16, and Houston at 20…Make that 6 of the top 20 teams are non-BCS conference schools. That’s 30% of the top 20.
Kyle is the anti-Jman781. While I tend to think that Fresno, BYU, Utah, etc. would get thrashed in the SEC, Big 12, Big Ten, etc., Kyle thinks they would succeed. According to the rankings, TCU would be the 2nd best team in the SEC and Fresno, Utah, and BYU would all be the third best SEC team, yet Miss State isn’t even ranked…Just going to have to agree to disagree.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
The "can they compete in the SEC" argument is a fallacious one.
By using that argument, one would need to rank about 8 teams in the SEC should be ranked in the top 15, and include everybody except Ole Miss and Vandy in the Top 25. (Though Vandy might not be completely out of the question… they did almost beat a good Big 10+2 team, after all.)
Every team plays the conference schedule they’re given. The ones in non-AQ conferences that want to have upwardly mobile ranking potential then schedule as many out of conference games against BCS opponents as they can. But, then, if you’re considered a “good” non-BCS opponent, not many teams who could give you legitimacy will want to schedule you. It’s a catch-22 situation.
Ranking the nation’s teams is an inexact science, at best, and in the first few weeks of the season, it’s purely guesswork. But the question that ostensibly must be answered is, “Right now, in between Weeks 1 and 2, who has the best teams in the country?” The question is not who would survive an SEC or Pac 10 season undefeated.
I can’t argue that Houston, BYU, and TCU all have teams that look very good right now. Ask me again in Week 11 or Week 12, and I’ll probably think there are other teams in the country that are better. As of today and right now, however… I can’t argue Kyle’s ranking.
Common myth:
But, then, if you’re considered a "good" non-BCS opponent, not many teams who could give you legitimacy will want to schedule you. It’s a catch-22 situation.
They turned down games against Nebraska & Arizona State recently. If they want to bolster their strength of schedule, there are opportunities. What they want is a home-home series. If they want a home-home… get rid of the blue turf. It used to be a gimmick to draw attention. Big boys don’t need gimmicks. Trash the blue turf and expand your stadium another 10,000-15,000 and you’ll get big time opponents to schedule you.
The dude abides.
They turned down a 2 for 1 with Nebraska,
and I’m not sure of the terms for Arizona St.
The big boys don’t turn them down because they play on blue turf…that’s preposterous. The big boys turn them down for two reasons: 1) it’s a lose-lose situation for the larger schools, and I know you touched on this, but 2) monetarily, it doesn’t make sense. Boise can barely sell out their stadium of 40k people (or whatever it is), so the bigger schools would be foolish to make the trip.
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
try 30K - 40K plus
but then you have to fill it too. They can’t even sell out their 32K stadium.
Why would a big school want to take that kind of financial hit by going out there…. and why would they risk a loss, yes.
Get rid of the blue turf? how about that and the “1-2” trick plays every game. When I heard that last night I thought how will this team ever be taken seriously with crap like that.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
A 23-17 win over Washington = 13th best in the country right now?
Based on your logic, one cannot look ahead. Thus, I would confidently place UGA, Arkansas, South Carolina, and Miss. State (to name a few) ahead of BYU based on just one week.
Admittedly, the rankings are a farce. I personally don’t think we should rank teams until around Week 8. The only problem is that rankings do matter in college football. It’s the only sport where a computer factors in human rankings to determine what teams play for a championship and go to BCS bowls. In basketball, all of the top 25 teams go to the dance.
Thus, if pollsters keep ranking crappy teams from crappy conferences ahead of us (UGA) those are more speed bumps we have to go over to get to the top…Why even bother with the speed bumps to begin with? Some pollsters may get lazy and keep the crappy teams in the rankings even when undeserving (like Hawai’i or Houston from the last few seasons).
Like I said, I am not challenging Kyle; we just have different views on ranking teams.
I just feel that a 9-3 UGA team (if that is our record at the end of the season) is better than an 11-1 Fresno State team…They just are.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
No, that's not how Kyle does it.
He’s a resume ranker. He ranks the teams based on what they’ve done so far…who they’ve beaten, who they’ve lost to. It doesn’t say anywhere in there that he thinks they would or wouldn’t succeed in the SEC.
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Once again...
If beating UW = #13 ranking and beating VT = #1 ranking then I have a feeling there will be a lot of teams in the top 13 by the end of the season…
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Then what are you suggesting?
You’re basically positing that the big boys should be ranked highly because they are who they are. Why should Georgia be ranked higher after beating Louisiana-Lafayette?
Your logic is debunking your own theory. On one hand, you imply that the smaller schools (BYU, Fresno, TCU, Boise) are inferior because they don’t play anyone of substance (or because of their conference), while simultaneously saying that beating two big boys shouldn’t matter because the teams that beat them are smaller teams.
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
There isn't a perfect solution...
And many questions will be answered over the next few weeks. If UGA goes 4-0, then I would hope they would be ranked ahead of Fresno, BYU, and Utah, at least (assuming they are 4-0, too).
There is not a perfect solution. But if we are basing the rankings after this past week only, teams like VT, Florida and BYU are ranked too high…So to keep them up that high we must consider factors beyond one weekend’s performance. Thus, Kyle must be thinking that 0-1 VT will win again and often in order to keep them at 14…Once we open the door to prognostication, I can say that I think UGA will have a better season than Fresno State and rank those two teams accordingly.
And I don’t think it is crazy to ask, if UGA played Fresno State, BYU, Utah, TCU and BSU, what would their record be? I doubt it would be 0-5.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Of course not.
As I said, at this point in time, Kyle factors in more than just one week’s worth of games. However, Kyle is a pessimist, and there’s no way he’s ranking Georgia highly anytime soon, simply out of superstition.
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Additionally...
If we are only basing the rankings on one week, how is VT still ranked?
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
you'll appreciate doc saturdays rankings
he goes by resume and i don’t think any teams with one loss make the top 25 for a few weeks. It sounds like that’s what you’re after considering the above comment
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The rankings are based on more than one week.
Kyle generally does resume ranking, but early in the season, that’s a bit difficult, so it’s a mix of who he thinks is good, as well as resume ranking. Also, resume ranking doesn’t work only on number of wins. If Kyle believes Boise is a top ranked team and VT only lost to them by three points, then VT, logically, is still ranked. You have to look at how they lost, not simply the fact that they lost. You can’t logically put a Georgia team that beat the crap out of a cupcake above a Virginia Tech team that lost a close game to a (currently) highly ranked opponent simply because Georgia won and VT lost, can you?
by hailtogeorgia on Sep 7, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, so your saying
that ppl don’t rank teams on only one criteria? That they use multiple factors and weigh each factor differently? and sometimes these factors contradict one another because it’s impossible for that not to happen with 120 teams? and that sometimes they contradict each other because it’s impossible for a person to keep track exactly of how they weigh these multiple factors each time? and that sometimes gut instincts are involved even in the most logical reasoning? well that seems a bit flawed. if only there was a way to use said criteria and said weight factors unanimously across all teams so that there could be no argument on biases or emotional folly because of how someone feels or if they like one teams colors more than another.
shit, did the BCS rankings just make sense to me? how did i manage to do that to myself?
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha...
The BCS wins!
The rankings are here for the pointless banter that will seem foolish at the end of the season when TCU beats undefeated Baylor in the National Championship.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
im actually pulling for a repeat of the fiesta as the MNC game
how pissed would everyone be at that!
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot agree with BSU as #1
Yes, they won a tough game last night. But I have a feeling that Virginia Tech just might turn out to be a middling ACC team, which is to say that they aren’t very good (at least right now). I think BSU are well-coached and gets maximum effort out of a bunch of kids who, rightly or wrongly, weren’t given that “4th Star” or just plain overlooked by many Pac12 schools.
Until proven otherwise, ’Bama should be #1 followed by Ohio State, Oregon, TCU and then Boise State. And I think ’Bama is going to slaughter Penn State this weekend and Joe Paterno is going to spontaneously combust because of all the grease in his hair.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
Can't agree with BSU either.
Victory over a fair to middling school from a second tier conference does not a #1 team make. I am sure that beating VT would not have put any SEC team in the one spot on anyone’s blog poll. If the purpose of the blogpoll is to try to guess how things will end up at the end of the season then it’s a solid vote. But if the #1 spot is reserved for who the best football team is this week, MSU looked just as good as Boise. We looked just as good as Boise. The Gamecocks looked just as good as Boise, and the list goes on.
This.
It was an extremely exciting game, we’re all excited for BSU, etc. But I would want to see Boise against any given SEC team (well, uh, except mine) before I ranked them above Bama. VT did not really impress me last night.
by eternal opti-miss on Sep 7, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
We did play BSU
And smoked them. But according to ESPN last night, they were just a novelty act then…
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
even though
they had gone like 24-2 the 2 previous seasons.. how’s that different than going 48-4 the last 4?
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i just checked it out
and the BSU senior class was 36-3 coming into that 05 game. So why is “not like the BSU we see today?” The very next year they went 14-0. Why do they keep saying BSU football didn’t start until 06 when they were clearly winning a shit ton of games previous to getting skull drug by UGA.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Because they didn't know how to deal with ESS EEE CEE SPEED until 2006.
Since 2006, they have figured out how to deal with it… don’t play any SEC teams, and if you do, play Ole Miss.
I understand
The thought behind ranking Boise State so high. They beat a ranked team on the road in what was essentially a home game in which all the pressure was on them. Their ranking will even out once other teams start playing decent competition (i.e., when Bama and Penn State go at it this weekend). However, I also was under the impression that teams that went 0-1 for the first week weren’t eligible for your ballet. In which case Va. Tech should be unranked this week. As shameful as this is, you should drop them out of the rankings and add LSU back. Granted they lucked into that victory, but Miles won a national title with little more than giant balls and luck. Plus, they’re 1-0.
How exactly do you decide placement?
Is it based on performances coupled with preseason perception?
Is it resume based?
As much as I don’t agree BSU to be the ‘best team in college football’ I will say this: who was the highest ranked team to go down in week one? And who beat them?
What’s to say Alabama should be up at the top? What’s the reasoning behind that? They went 14-0 last season? The return a lot of those players? BSU did that too.
Bamas road to 14-0 was harder? Well now we are talking about games they played last season and those teams aren’t the same anymore nor are the teams they play this year. It’s all very subjective, but so far BSU has the best resume followed by Utah.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
but the resume is based on
stupid meaningless preseason rankings… AHHHH.
i know. it sucks. mummpolls rule.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 7, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. St.???
I am curious to know the reason behind ranking Ok. St. Didn’t they lose a lot of talent not to mention the fact that they still were mediocre with all the offensive skill postion talent last year? I believe Kendal Hunter is the only one back from the QB, RB, WR, & TE big names they had last year correct? Also didn’t they get a new OC with a new offensive attack?
Oh boy
Virginia Tech at 14 is plain silly. Their only claim to fame is giving away a game they should have won. If their ranking has anything at all to do with Boise State’s ranking, then you are just entering into a perpetual cycle : Boise is good because they beat a team ranked X who must be good because they just barely lost to Boise who is good because they beat a team ranked X…
If you base it on how they played the game, then neither team is worthy of a top 15 slot. They were sloppy, there was a noticeable lack of dynamic playmakers on either side of the ball, and Virginia Tech looked poorly coached for most of the game. If you look at teams that played well against competition estimated to be fair, then Michigan looked really good. UConn is a legit team from a BCS conference (as legit as VaTech at this point), and Michigan whipped them 30-10. They outgained them by 130 yards, and had a 28-16 first down advantage, converting 14 of 19 3rd downs. Michigan looked solid from start to finish without a multitude of special teams blunders… things Boise State cannot say. Yet BSU is #1. Michigan is unranked.
The dude abides.
This aggression will not stand.
17 South Carolina Gamecocks
18 Georgia Bulldogs
Dum spiro spero - "While I breathe, I hope"
State motto of South Carolina
by The Feathered Warrior on Sep 7, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
Was it something I said? :)
First of all, thanks to all of you for the feedback you have offered so far. As a product of one of the University’s two historic literary societies, I understand that a debate can be heated and civil at the same time, so I appreciate the passion that has been brought to bear.
Having said which, though, I should point out that I was operating from my preseason ballot and making incremental adjustments based upon those rankings. I freely admit that this flawed, but there is no way to compare achievements at this stage of the game, when so few teams have faced legitimate opposition.
While I am, in principle, a resume ranker, resume ranking this early in the autumn produces wildly skewed results, so I try to phase in the resume-based approach as the season progresses. Preseason assumptions that are disproved by events will fall by the wayside as we move forward, but we do not yet have adequate data upon the basis of which to cast off the assumptions of August; hence, VPI lost by a field goal to my preseason No. 1 team and fell only a few spots. The Hokies will let us know soon enough whether this approach was accurate.
Do I believe Boise State is the best team in the country? Not necessarily, but, for preseason ballot purposes, the Broncos struck me as the dog with the fewest fleas. Florida and Texas lost their extremely successful starting quarterbacks, and the Gators and the Longhorns struggled against poor opponents as a result. Alabama lost nine defensive starters, which I tend to think will cost the Tide a game or two along the way. Ohio State is Ohio State, and, frankly, the notion of Boise State winning a BCS Championship Game strikes me as considerably less implausible than the notion of the Buckeyes doing so.
At no point in the season should my rankings be taken to mean that I automatically believe the No. 1 team would beat all other teams next Saturday, that the No. 2 team would beat all other teams except the No. 1 team next Saturday, etc. As my weekly "Don’t Bet On It!" predictions make clear, I am very bad at forecasting the outcomes of college football games, so my subjective belief is not to be trusted.
For that reason, I agree in principle with those of you who have criticized the subjectivity of the foregoing rankings. As evidence is presented, it will be incorporated into my thinking and reflected in my top 25. The value of Boise State’s win over Virginia Tech will change as time passes; an ACC championship run by the Hokies would bolster the Broncos’ claim, while three more losses by VPI would lessen the worth of last night’s win.
Particularly at this point in the season, I am willing to give mid-majors the benefit of the doubt, particularly if they have shown me something by beating teams I thought were good. Fresno State beat the defending Big East champions, BYU beat a Washington team I had ranked, and Utah beat a Pitt team I had ranked. Those victories count for something, irrespective of whether I think any of those teams would win the SEC (which, for the record, I do not).
This will sort itself out over time. If there appears to be little method to my madness at this point, it is because we are in the three- or four-week transition between preseason assumptions and in-season realities. Next weekend, when Alabama takes on Penn State and Ohio State takes on Miami, the Crimson Tide and the Buckeyes will have the opportunity to showcase their quality as teams. While wins and losses are the ultimate arbiter of movement, not all wins and not all losses are created equal, and some judgment must come into play in the evaluation of all outcomes arrived at within the white lines.
Accordingly, a team can move down even after a win or (in rare instances) move up even after a loss. I won’t get into what happened in 2007, except to say that I believe there were valid reasons why LSU’s leapfrogging of Georgia happened.
Beyond that, I thank you again for your feedback, and I encourage you to continue raising questions and offering constructive criticisms. If anyone wants me to explain the specific placement of a particular team, just ask.
Go 'Dawgs!
It's just a fun debate.
After a long off-season of arrests, coaching changes, and suspensions, I wanted to talk about something else for a change.
You, and everyone else above, are 100% correct in that nobody has any idea. The UGA example is perfect as they face 2 teams in your top 25 over the next 2 weeks…
My ire toward the mid-majors will increase or decrease as the season progesses depending on UGA’s record. If we have one loss at the end of the season, I don’t want any teams like TCU, Utah or BSU claiming a spot in the national title game at our expense…If UGA is 8-4, I say bring on the TCU v. BSU MNC game as knowshon love legos said above.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Hey, I'm with you.
I’m just a pessimist who thinks we’re going 8-4, so I’m resigned to the inevitable yet willing to be pleasantly surprised! :)
Go 'Dawgs!
Should Georgia be ranked over USC?
Georgia demolished their opponent, and I know you’ve already said you thought USC’s opponent was better, I have to question just how much better.
Pulling up some stats :
South Carolina gave up…23 first downs, 10/19 on 3rd down, 404 total yards of offense, and lost the TOP battle 31:08 to 28:52.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we are looking back to last year at least a little when ranking teams this early in the season, so can we note that Southern Miss had losses to the two ranked teams they played (#20 Kansas & #18 Houston) and also sported losses to UAB, Louisville, East Carolina and the legendary Middle Tennessee in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl on their way to a 7-6 season.
Their three best wins were a 3 point win over 3-9 Virginia, a 20 point win over a 2-10 Memphis, and a 7 point win over a 7-6 Marshall.
Georga gave up…5 first downs, 3/16 on 3rd down, 128 total yards of offense, and won the TOP battle 33:27 to 26:33.
Louisiana-Lafayette is coming off of a 6-6 campaign where they lost to #9 LSU, #25 Nebraska, FIU, the legendary Middle Tennessee, Troy, and Florida Atlantic.
Their three best wins were a 2 point win over a 6-6 Kansas State, a 4 point win over a 2-10 North Texas, and a 6 point win over a 4-8 Arkansas State. ULL lost 34-17 on the road while Southern Miss lost by 10 at a neutral site.
My point is, Southern Miss isn’t that much better of an opponent over Louisiana-Lafayette, and if both teams are even or even close to even, UGA’s victory should look better on paper and to the naked eye. I do understand I have probably jinxed us by even making this argument, and for that I apologize.
The only common opponent was the legendary Middle Tennessee, who Louisiana-Lafayette played just over a month before Souther Miss met them in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl.
Something happened with the sentences...should read :
Should Georgia be ranked over USC? Georgia demolished their opponent, and I know you’ve already said you thought USC’s opponent was better, I have to question just how much better.
Pulling up some stats :
South Carolina gave up…23 first downs, 10/19 on 3rd down, 404 total yards of offense, and lost the TOP battle 31:08 to 28:52.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we are looking back to last year at least a little when ranking teams this early in the season, so can we note that Southern Miss had losses to the two ranked teams they played (#20 Kansas & #18 Houston) and also sported losses to UAB, Louisville, East Carolina and the legendary Middle Tennessee in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl on their way to a 7-6 season.
Their three best wins were a 3 point win over 3-9 Virginia, a 20 point win over a 2-10 Memphis, and a 7 point win over a 7-6 Marshall.
Georga gave up…5 first downs, 3/16 on 3rd down, 128 total yards of offense, and won the TOP battle 33:27 to 26:33.
Louisiana-Lafayette is coming off of a 6-6 campaign where they lost to #9 LSU, #25 Nebraska, FIU, the legendary Middle Tennessee, Troy, and Florida Atlantic.
Their three best wins were a 2 point win over a 6-6 Kansas State, a 4 point win over a 2-10 North Texas, and a 6 point win over a 4-8 Arkansas State.
The only common opponent was the legendary Middle Tennessee, who Louisiana-Lafayette played just over a month before Souther Miss met them in the R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl. ULL lost 34-17 on the road while Southern Miss lost by 10 at a neutral site.
My point is, Southern Miss isn’t that much better of an opponent over Louisiana-Lafayette, and if both teams are even or even close to even, UGA’s victory should look better on paper and to the naked eye. I do understand I have probably jinxed us by even making this argument, and for that I apologize.
These are all valid points.
While, on the whole, I think a decent Conference USA team is better than a poor Sun Belt team, my natural negativity prevents me from ranking Georgia over Georgia’s next opponent when the two have identical records and no clearly distinguishing “signature” victory.
Fortunately, this will take care of itself next Saturday. Obviously, the winner of the Georgia-South Carolina game will benefit from carding that victory, and the loser likely will drop from the top 25.
Go 'Dawgs!
Yeah I got no problem with it.
Just felt like making an argument, any argument, for your poll and nothing else really stood out.
In fairness...
UGA is ranked ahead of Scarolina in both the Coaches and the AP Poll, but behind Arkansas in both…
I’m with Kyle on this one, since get to play the Gamecocks this weekend, we’ll who’s better (same with Arky), in the meantime let’s not let UGA’s head get too big!
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Boise St. wears blue & orange: isn't that enough reason to hate them?
I’d like to put out an argument I read earlier on Get the Picture, posted by a commenter named Puffdawg (note: please don’t let the handle discredit the theory for you):
VT is not that great, and had no business being ranked as a top 10 team. I think this is supported by their play last night. However, when reviewing BSU’s schedule, VT seemed to be the largest obstacle to BSU going undefeated again. That resulted in this being a ‘big game’, and the hype around the game (as BSU’s most legitimate, and quite possibly settling early on whether they will again run the table) resulted in inflating the perceived quality of a VT team that will probably lose to 2 or 3 ACC teams over the course of the season, who themselves are unlikely to be in the NC discussion. Now, circularly, because that mediocre opponent was the highest quality BSU faced, BSU gets resume credit for taking down a ‘high quality’ opponent.
-———
Aside from that – I don’t think anyone will honestly try to argue that BSU looked like one of the best teams in the nation on the field last night – not even close. I also don’t think most people who have BSU ranked highly actually feel that BSU would beat the other top-5 teams if they were to play them this Saturday. As such, I see any top tier ranking of them as being based on either:
1) a sense of injustice that they didn’t get to play for it all last year (though I think there were at the very least 3 better teams who would have annihilated them); or
2) a prediction that the other teams won’t run the table, where BSU will. In that case UGA should go independent, schedule 10 patsies, an ACC also-ran, and a mid-level PAC 10 team so that we can play BSU for the NC.
Either way, I don’t think it’s based on football. If you want the NC contenders to be chosen based on actual performance in games (which I grant is a bit much to ask), at year’s end the best you can say of BSU is that they beat a bunch of unranked teams (which includes their next-best opponent, Oregon St), and hopefully looked good doing it (though when teams in real conferences beat up on cupcakes in the opener, we all know not to put too much stock in it), and had one poorly executed win that came down to the wire over an artificially inflated team (who played poorly by their own standards) that has a chance at coming in third or fourth in the fourth or fifth best conference around – a team that someone more observant than myself very aptly described as “the LSU of the ACC”.
Say an SEC, Big 12, or Big 10 champion comes through the season with only 1 loss (or honestly even 2 – and if teams in those conferences play the way BSU did last night, they will almost certainly come up with at least a loss or two), I think you’ll be able to say a lot more for what they did on the field throughout the year as compared to Boise, and I think they should get to play it out against one another, rather than against BSU. After all, BSU can start scheming for their bowl game now. The rest of us have 3 more months of football to play, and don’t yet feel that we’ve accomplished enough to warrant playing for conference titles, much less national ones.
Relax.
It’s a long season, and even Boise State has Oregon State and Fresno State (not an easy out, as AQ conference teams find out on a regular basis, through and including last weekend) to go. There’s no need to presume how many games VPI will lose; by the end of the season, we’ll know, and that information will be factored into my evaluation of the quality, vel non, of the Broncos’ win over the Hokies, which will affect my rankings. There will be nothing circular about it. We simply happen to be working from a very small sample size at this juncture.
I would be very interested to learn which top five teams “would have annihilated” Boise State this weekend. Florida certainly wouldn’t have; the Gators looked sloppier than the Broncos did, against much worse competition and on their home field. Texas wouldn’t have, either. TCU didn’t look as impressive as expected, but the Horned Frogs were playing the Beavers, so we’ll have a basis for comparison in a couple of weeks, when Boise State also plays Oregon State. Alabama and Ohio State are the only two top five teams I can think of who likely would have beaten the Broncos this weekend, and I’ll be very surprised if the Crimson Tide and the Buckeyes don’t both lose two games before the season is done. Let’s save our outrage for the point at which it is warranted.
Go 'Dawgs!
What did I say that made it seem like I'm outraged?
I’m certainly not outraged, and apologize if it seems otherwise. I just think a team is overrated here and on almost every ballot and wanted to try to articulate why I think so – though I guess my e-tone didn’t come across as intended. I don’t think that early season rankings really merit all that strong of an emotional response, though they do merit discussion.
That being said, I’m aware that revisions will be made throughout the season, but still feel that it’s fair to consider an opponent’s possible later success level when determining the strength of schedule, just as most consider the team at question’s potential for success when forming any rankings this early in the season, due to the small sample available for performance.
As for which teams would beat BSU – I feel like you’re combining 2 things I said: that BSU wouldn’t be likely to win against the other top 5 teams if they played them this weekend (based on last weekend’s performance, especially considering that it would put BSU in the position of playing 2 legitimate opponents in a row), and that there were at least 3 teams that would have annihilated them in a bowl game last year – which I believe Florida, Texas, and Bama would have done. You can disagree with those sentiments, but I don’t think either is wholly unreasonable, when kept separate.
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