Stewart, I am a believer that a fan base must always answer the question "And hire whom?" before they talk about firing a coach. If you cannot name a better option than the current guy, forget it. I find myself teetering on the Mark Richt discussion. If he goes, who would be your hire? -- Dave, Atlanta
I'm with you, Dave. If Georgia runs off Richt this year, it will be textbook Clemson/Ole Miss Syndrome. (Note the example cited in that link: Minnesota. How's that working out?) Historically, Georgia is more prestigious than either of those teams -- but not as much as Dawgs fans like to think. In all my travels, I'm not sure I've ever come across a fan base whose self-perception is so far from reality. Georgia fashions itself a national power in the vein of Ohio State, USC, et. al., based primarily off one glorious three-year run 30 years ago with Herschel Walker (and some kick-butt years in the 1940s). Prior to this season, the Dawgs under Richt had vastly outperformed their historical "equilibrium," and in fact Richt's career winning percentage (.752) is the highest in school history (not counting Bobby Winston's lone 5-1 season in 1894).
But in today's SEC, the goal is national championships, and three other league coaches hired by their schools more recently than Richt -- Florida's Urban Meyer, LSU's Miles and Alabama's Nick Saban -- have 'em. Richt doesn't. And at 0-3 in the SEC, winning one anytime soon probably seems like a very remote possibility. But realistically, the chances of hiring another Ray Goff are higher than the school landing its own Meyer or Saban. Texas head-coach-in-waiting Will Muschamp (a UGA alum) is a realistic and enticing possibility, but beyond that, there is not a single coach out there I'd consider an upgrade from Richt (and even Muschamp is no guarantee). Let's see how the season plays out. With a light upcoming schedule, a freshman quarterback who should theoretically progress and the return of A.J. Green, my guess is the Dawgs will go on a run. If they can salvage things and win eight games, and still fire him ... well, just take a look at Tennessee for a glimpse into their immediate future.
over 1 year ago
Anthony Pace
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Florida considers itself a national power based on
Tim Tebow and a glorious 4 year run from 2006-2009 and some kick butt years in the 90’s. What’s your point Stewie?
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
by RedCrake on Sep 29, 2010 7:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
And I'm not trying to dig at Florida here...
But if we’re talking about a historical perspective of national powers, the two are remarkably similar in terms of their achievements. The main difference is simply where the events have fallen on a timeline as theirs are clustered more recently and ours are more spread out more consistently over a longer period of time.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
by RedCrake on Sep 29, 2010 8:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know what we did to tick off Stewart Mandel so badly, . . .
. . . but he never misses an opportunity to dis us, he always portrays us in the most unflattering light possible, and he gets his facts wrong. (Will Muschamp is not a realistic possibility, as anyone familiar with his situation at Texas understands. And where does he get off calling Robert Winston “Bobby”?)
I’ve rebutted Mandel’s nonsense before, so I’m not up to doing it again. If you’re curious, search the site for “Stewart Mandel is an idiot” and click on the links that appear. If you want the Cliff’s Notes, here they are: Stewart Mandel is an idiot.
Go 'Dawgs!
I agree with you on the idiot part
But I think there’s an outside chance that we could get Muschamp. The difference to me is, a) It could be quite a while until Mack Brown retires. b) We have McGarity now, not “Penny Pincher” Evans. McGarity wants to win championships, I can tell. He will spend whatever it takes to get the right coaches in here. c) The call of coaching at your Alma Mater is probably more enticing than Muschamp lets on. We’d certainly offer just as much as Texas, we have the money for it. He can come coach here and have almost the same caliber of recruiting base as Texas.
I was actually going to post this on here to get people’s reactions, but thankfully it’s already been posted so I can just chime in.
I think Mandel does have a very pessimistic view of UGA and he does seem to have a bone to pick with us. His criteria could be applied to most everyone not named Michigan, Ohio State, USC. That doesn’t mean that UGA is on another level than those schools and that we should settle for never winning another National Championship or getting another Heisman trophy in Butts-Mehre. His attitude is “Your school is actually not that good. You should be happy when you are every once in a while, but resign yourself to the fact that you’re never going to be like ‘these guys.’ You’re down here, and they’re way up here. Get used to it.” I refuse to accept that line of thinking.
I respecfully disagree regarding Will Muschamp.
I don’t think it’s at all safe to assume that we would “certainly offer as much as Texas.” There aren’t many college football programs that could win a bidding war with Georgia, but Texas absolutely is one of them.
While Will Muschamp doesn’t have the same guaranteed deadline that Jimbo Fisher had, I’d be very surprised if he and Mack Brown haven’t privately discussed a target for Coach Brown’s retirement, at least in general terms. Coach Muschamp likely has a good idea when this is coming, and he accepted the “head coach in waiting” post with that understanding. Besides, after last Saturday, do you think Coach Brown is thinking of extending his career or abbreviating it?
Assuming for the sake of argument that the Peach State and the Lone Star State approximately are equivalent as recruiting grounds (which I doubt), Georgia and Texas (the schools, not the states) are not equivalent as recruiting powers. Last year, the Longhorns signed literally every prep player to whom they extended a scholarship offer. That’s no exaggeration . . . every kid Mack Brown wanted enough to invite to come to Texas came to Texas. Georgia will never have that level of recruiting hegemony.
Finally, regarding the lure of one’s alma mater, don’t forget that Vince Dooley was offered what was then a substantial sum to come home to Auburn in 1980. He thought about it, but, in the end, he didn’t do it. Will Muschamp has coached against Georgia as an assistant at Auburn and LSU; while I’m sure Athens still holds a special place in his heart, he hasn’t been affiliated with the Bulldogs in a number of years. His past was in Athens; his present and his future are in Austin.
Will Muschamp will be the next head coach at Texas. He will not be the next head coach at Georgia. Maybe that’s a good thing, maybe that’s a bad thing, but, either way, it’s true.
Go 'Dawgs!
You are probably correct
Though I don’t think our chances would be great with Muschamp, I think he would at least seriously consider the offer. Our chances would likely be much better with Kirby Smart, who I could see being one of our best opportunities, should a head coach opening come up.
You are correct about Vince Dooley not wanting to leave for Auburn. I suppose the main difference there was that he was already a head coach, that wouldn’t have been a step as far as career wise, just pay wise. For Muschamp, it would conceivably be both, but I do agree that he would be less likely to take the potential offer.
I guess my main contention is with Mandel asserting that we’re not as big as we think we are and that we couldn’t get who we wanted. We certainly couldn’t get any of the top coaches like Meyer, Saban, Tressel, etc so we’d be looking at some top coordinators, maybe some NFL guys like Grantham, or coaches at successful non-BCS schools. It definitely does get riskier but everyone goes through that when going through a coaching search, and you can wind up with a dud.
I pretty much agree
At Texas, at any point in the foreseeable future, Muschamp will take the helm with a pair of loaded guns, no matter what. Currently, the situation is far more precarious in Athens.
"We should just concentrate on what we’re good at… Death Metal and interior design." – William Murderface
by Anthony Pace on Sep 30, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
As the site's nominal recruiting guy . . .
I’d like to point out that Georgia produces the 4th highest number of Division 1 recruits on an annual basis, Texas is #1. But the gulf is wide. And Texas has a famous stranglehold on homestate recruiting that Georgia, for historical and geographic reasons, will never be able to replicate.
The Law of Recency
And that’s all I’m giving those damn reptilians!
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
Though Dave makes a great point.
I admit it. In the name of research I spent about an hour of Sunday afternoon, an hour which I will never get back, looking at our “options”. They are not good. Once you filter out those we don’t want, those who wouldn’t come, and those who are just plain risky (Muschamp falls into at least 2 of those categories in my book) you’re not really left with a lot of options.
It’s all well and good to say “we want to win like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer.” I do too. But history shows that when you get rid of the coach with the highest winning percentage in your program’s history you’re more likely to end up winning like Ed Orgeron.
What about Notre Dame fans?
They are way more delusional about their place in the hierarchy than UGA fans will ever be. And not to tick off everyone here, but I agree with the core message of the article posted above. I’m a young’n (29 years old), and I first started going to UGA games and following the team during the Jim Donnan era, and I don’t think anyone would call his record impressive. So just to put it in perspective, we went from Goff, to Donnan, to Richt. If we fire Richt, we might have a shot at Kirby Smart, but he’s unproven as a head coach. We might be able to go after TCU or Boise State’s head coaches, but who knows how that would pan out. I’m not saying we should let Richt stay here forever, especially if he doesn’t show improvement soon, but the passion for winning needs to be tempered with rational thought.
by MDDawg on Oct 1, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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