The Georgia Bulldogs' Journey from Athens to Anathoth: A Jeremiad (Literally) in Defense of Mark Richt
by T Kyle King on Sep 26, 2010 10:12 PM EDT
in Football
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PrintJeremiah said, "The word of the LORD came to me: Hanamel son of Shallum your uncle is going to come to you and say, 'Buy my field at Anathoth, because as nearest relative it is your right and duty to buy it.'
"Then, just as the LORD had said, my cousin Hanamel came to me in the courtyard of the guard and said, 'Buy my field at Anathoth in the territory of Benjamin. Since it is your right to redeem it and possess it, buy it for yourself.'
"I knew that this was the word of the LORD; so I bought the field at Anathoth from my cousin Hanamel and weighed out for him seventeen shekels of silver. I signed and sealed the deed, had it witnessed, and weighed out the silver on the scales. I took the deed of purchase—the sealed copy containing the terms and conditions, as well as the unsealed copy—and I gave this deed to Baruch son of Neriah, the son of Mahseiah, in the presence of my cousin Hanamel and of the witnesses who had signed the deed and of all the Jews sitting in the courtyard of the guard.
"In their presence I gave Baruch these instructions: 'This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Take these documents, both the sealed and unsealed copies of the deed of purchase, and put them in a clay jar so they will last a long time. For this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Houses, fields, and vineyards will again be bought in this land.'"
Jeremiah 32:6-15
I’ve been an insomniac for as long as I can remember, and, on the list of events that are not conducive to my getting a good night’s sleep, watching the Georgia Bulldogs lose a night game against an opponent I fully expected them to beat ranks right up there. Accordingly, I wasn’t feeling my best when I awoke this morning, and I allowed the thought of skipping church to cross my mind, but I couldn’t really justify the notion of keeping my family home from Sunday morning worship because I was more bothered than I ought to have been by my having watched a Mark Richt-coached team lose a football game. Consequently, my family and I went to church this morning, as though this was any other Sunday.
The passage of Scripture quoted above was read by the liturgist and formed the foundation for the sermon. While the pastor properly was concerned with matters much more pressing than intercollegiate athletics, the fact that my alma mater’s fading football fortunes very nearly kept me away from this morning’s service caused this reading to resonate with me not just as a Christian, but also as a sports fan; that the two are tied together in my mind is attested to by the fact that my support for Mark Richt as a coach unquestionably is influenced by my high regard for him as a man of faith, even if it is open to debate whether God wants Mike Bobo calling the offensive plays for the ‘Dawgs. (Perhaps He once did, but He also told us to be fruitful and multiply when the human population of the planet was two; as a Protestant, though, I allow for the possibility that this edict may have ceased to be applicable when that population came to be numbered in the billions. God can make new covenants; He doesn’t lock us in eternally on offensive coordinators.)
It will not surprise regular readers of this weblog to learn that I have a fondness for Jeremiah, who prophesied doom and gloom in the longest book of the Bible; I have a natural affinity for longwinded pessimists, particularly when they describe legal proceedings in such exacting detail. What is noteworthy about the Scripture from this morning’s sermon, however, is that Jeremiah found himself in circumstances that ought to have made him more dour even than usual---he was imprisoned; Jerusalem was then under the siege that ultimately would lead to the disappearance of the Ark of the Covenant, which has not been seen since; his kinsman was trying to prevail upon him to purchase at full market value a piece of property that likely was about to become worthless, as the existing order was imperiled---and yet, in the midst of all that darkness, the prophet who saw only doom perceived the earliest inklings of the dawn.
When he arrived in Athens, Mark Richt spoke of knocking the lid off of the Georgia program, and he did it with an SEC championship in his second season at the helm, then again with another in his fifth, and once more with a national second-place finish in his seventh. Jeremiah, however, reminds us that, sometimes, lids need to be tightened, "so they will last a long time." Lids, regrettably, are not the only things to have been loosened in the Classic City of late, and perhaps what is needed now is a clamping down. There are encouraging signs that this is starting to happen.
Bulldog Nation’s frustration is justified. Change was slow to come, the changes that have been made are taking time to implement, and more change is needed, though reasonable fans may differ over the nature and extent of what else is required.
There is, however, cause for faith. In his first nine years at the Georgia helm, Wally Butts captured two SEC championships, which earned him patience through a lengthy dry spell in the 1950s; that patience paid off when Coach Butts broke "The Drought," finished his career with a four-game winning streak over Bobby Dodd’s Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, and brought home the 1959 SEC title. In his first nine years at the Georgia helm, Vince Dooley capture two SEC championships, which earned him patience through a lengthy dry spell between 1969 and 1974; that patience paid off when Coach Dooley guided the Red and Black to four SEC titles and a national crown between 1976 and 1982. In his first nine years at the Georgia helm, Mark Richt captured two SEC championships, which ought to earn him patience through the present dry spell; that patience will pay off in the end.
Whatever else you may also believe in good faith about the changes that need to be made, believe that. As awful as matters now appear, understand that the gloom looming over Athens pales in comparison to that which hung above Anathoth. Write this down, and seal it in a jar made with red clay from the Georgia hills, so it will last a long time: honors, glory, and championships will again be brought to this land.
I’ll see y’all next Saturday at the Blind Pig Tavern.
Go ‘Dawgs.
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Atheist here...
…and in total agreement.
What surprises me is how much 24 hours seem to have changed the tenor so drastically, like we finally reached a tipping point, and I just don’t get it. This is undoubtedly a new low, and everyone seems to think that means things will only get worse. I’ve heard that referred to as inertia bias. In the real world, systems tend towards the long term average, which means that a team hitting new highs is liable to get worse, and the team hitting new lows is likely to improve. Recently under Richt (2006, 2007 and 2009), this is in fact exactly what has happened.
And not to make excuses, but new QB and D. I look forward to year 2 with both. If things do in fact continue to regress for the rest of this year and hold steady next year, then I might get on this newly energized bandwagon. Until then, I might just need to avoid comments on the interweb.
"Like the thirst of the seed,
we will wait, we believe
It will rain, it will rain in the desert"
~ Beth Neilsen Chapman
I can bake like a demon.
Thanks, everyone.
I spotted a typo—-it should have been “Vince Dooley captured,” not “Vince Dooley capture”—-but I guess y’all got the gist. Much obliged.
Go 'Dawgs!
My wife said it well today: “I don’t know if I am ready to see Mark Richt go.”
Neither am I.
However, I worry that it may be time regardless of what I want.
This isn’t the 50s or the 70s. When your program falls behind nowadays, it is far harder to recover. 4 of the last 5 seasons have been disappointments, and we really cannot afford 2011 to also be a waste.
Loved it....
Bottom line is its hard to point to any one definite thing and say that its CMR’s fault and he needs to go especially after only one truly BAD year. Could it get worse? Sure, it can, but jumping ship a third of a way into its trip cause you have a “feeling” its the titanic isn’t wise. You could jump and as you look back realize its the Q.E. 2 on its way to Hawaii.
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
I Corinthians 9:24
I could not disagree more. . .
Last night was the culmination of a 4 year slide into mediocrity that is simply indefensible. Comparing Mark Richt to coaches from the 50’s and 70’s is also invalid as it ignores the fundamental shifts that have occurred in the State of Georgia and college football since those times.
The SEC is more competitive than it has ever been, and it is abundantly clear that CMR is not willing to make the sort of changes needed to keep up.
And of course, his faith should have absolutely no bearing on whether he is employed by a state institution.
Very similar to
Bear Bryant’s 4 year slide into mediocrity from ‘67-’70, which was significantly worse than Richt’s last four years. Unbelievably, Alabama didn’t fire his incompetent ass after that fourth year. Boy, they turned out to be morons.
by Slakmehl on Sep 27, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Classic example. . .
of citing to an exception in an attempt to prove the rule. Mark Richt is not Bear Bryant. Not by a long shot. Hoping that Coach Richt will turn it around like an Alabama coach did 40 years ago is not a winning proposition. The list of coaches who were unable to turn around a slide is a lot longer than the ones who righted the ship.
The fact that you have to cite to Bear Bryant speaks to that.
You are not using that phrase correctly
Not by a long shot.
Furthermore, I did not hand pick that stat. I did not choose a specific era, or look for a coach that supported my point. I typed “greatest college football coach of all time” into Google and clicked the first link. I then looked at that person’s record on wikipedia. Go ahead, try it yourself.
If you want to say not only that things are different now, which is true, but that they are different in precisely a way that makes Mark Richt a terrible coach, all I can do is express a measure of skepticism.
Actually, you were using it correctly
You were just incorrect about my methodology. Go ahead and try it with any famous coach you can think of that had a long tenure (except Tom Osborne, that dude was consistent).
Why not do it the other way though. . .
Why not compare it to a list of coahces who didn’t turn it around? it seems to me your methodology assumes that CMR is like those coaches who endured bleak stretchs, and I’m wondering why? How long does he get to prove he can change the fortunes of a declining program?
That's the question
And all I’m saying is that a guy with his long term average (10 wins), deserves some time. My suggestion was to at least look for significant improvement through next year.
As far as the guys who didn’t turn around, it’s hard to do. I don’t know old non-famous coaches, and in recent history….well, they get fired so quickly you would be hard-pressed to find examples.
Ya'll both need to realized it's 2010
not 1967, 71, 80. No coach will ever get a 4 year grace period like they did back then.
Is it fair, is it smart? Maybe not. But get real guys. Richt could turn it around after another 2 years of losing seasons but there’s no well in hell he’d ever get that chance.
Time to grow up
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point
Yes. Richt has this year, maybe the next to turn this around. Dramatic changes in coaching mentality, and maybe coaching staff (not necessarily Richt) are in order to right this ship in time. And clearly he is thinking of doing some of these things according to the post-game press conference Saturday.
Then we deserve whatever we get.
But hey, we could get lucky.
Luck will have nothing to do with it.
But, did you see CMR’s post-game conference. Even he looks beat!
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
When the names being floated as replacements
have no head coaching experience. Luck will have a hell of a lot to do with it.
by Slakmehl on Sep 27, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
I think you have to assume that generally good coaches remain generally good coaches despite some rough years, and generally not-so-good coaches remain not-so-good despite some occasional luck.
Statistics about other coaches won’t really help answer the question of which category CMR belongs in…
by Actual Box of Cornflakes on Sep 27, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet again…
College football now is nothing like it was then. The entire landscape has changed. The level of overall competition has massively increased. Do you really think the equivalent of an FCS school could EVER have defeated a top 25 school back then? Absolutely not.
You cannot compare eras. The rules then are not the rules now.
Ans as Gooner notes, if you really think Richt is about to turn into Bear Bryant then wow….. you are really delusional.
Bear Bryant was 0-7-1 in Bowl Games
From 1967 till 1974. I’m not ready to even anoint CMR as Bear Bryant, but his record isn’t exactly stellar either. I don’t think Bear Bryant would have 6 National Titles in the current BCS format. At best he had 3 uncontested #1 years (’61, 64, and 79). And his first was in the 15th year of his coaching. Apples and oranges…
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
i feel the need to point this out again
From 1967 till 1974.
FORTY YEARS AGO.
Name one coach in the past decade to have multiple losing seasons (3 or more) in a row and go on to win multiple or even one national title(s)….. or still have their job … go on, im waiting
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What do coaches who "have multiple losing seasons (3 or more) in a row" . . .
. . . have to do with anything?
Mark Richt’s next losing season will be his first one. In fact, his next season of fewer than eight wins will be his first one.
Go 'Dawgs!
Because I keep reading how coach 'so and so'
Lost ‘so and so’ many games from year so to year so and how they turned it around and won so and so national titles because the powers that be were not irrational.
The fact that Richt hasn’t even had one losing season is exactly what I’m talking about here. There is no patience in 2010. If you disagree that Richt would not (read WOULD, not should) be fired if we went 6-6 over the next 2 years, I would love to hear that argument.
My point being this is where we are now. Stop using historical context of Bear Bryant and Vince Dooley to project Richt’s career path. It’s not going to happen.
I don’t agree, I’m just telling it like it is.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, we know.
You aren’t arguing with anyone. We’re talking about what ought to happen, not what is going to happen.
We’re talking about what ought to happen, not what is going to happen.
Mantra of the Blog Message Boards. I guess I should know better
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to think there's a distinction between a weblog . . .
. . . and a message board. As I often say, not everyone who’s on a message board is a yahoo, but everyone who’s a yahoo is on a message board.
While we’ve all been frustrated with the last couple of seasons in general, and the last three weeks in particular, and while several of us have gotten chippy from time to time, I think we’ve all maintained control here much better than many posters at most message boards.
For the record, Brian Cook thinks so, too:
UGA has an enormous and excellent blogosphere filled with people who never fly off the handle. Last year they offered nothing worthy of this column, leaving me to plumb the fertile depths of the also-thriving UGA message board scene.
I take no small measure of pride in that fact, which is one of the reasons why I hope and believe the University of Georgia will behave with the same restraint toward Mark Richt that it showed toward Wally Butts and Vince Dooley under similar circumstances. Yes, those events were 35 or more years ago, but what’s a quarter-century to an institution that was chartered three years before the U.S. Constitution was ratified? :)
Go 'Dawgs!
I guess the fist-shaking-get-off-my-lawn-yelling-
good-ol-boy network would be good in this instance then.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because no one else has patience...
…doesn’t mean we’re prohibited by law from exercising it.
Who knows, if we actually had the guts/stubbornness/foolishness to hang on to Richt, and he did somehow go on to pull a couple of MNCs out of his whatchamacallit between now and 2015, who’s to say that wouldn’t start a new national trend of hanging on to coaches more?
The only thing less conducive to success than failing to keep up with the crowd, is mindlessly keeping up with them at all costs.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, but as TKK points out
Richt’s never lost less that 8 games and we are already trying to talk people (and not even the crazies) back from the ledge.
Exercising patience is getting tougher and tougher as the years go on. I’d much rather the rational people begin questioning changes after a few 6-6 seasons rather than the possibility of an 8-5 and 5-7…. but that’s not going to happen
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
Plus, I would like to take this opportunity to concede that my own perspective is kinda warped in the other direction. I was born to two Oregon State alumni, in the middle of the last winning season the Beavers would see for 28 long years. I grew up going to football games in the midst of an era so grim that hiring Kragthorpe père, and thus contracting an earlier strain of Krag1N1, actually improved things a bit in Corvallis.
(I can only give thanks that my father never tried sacrificing me to the Football Gods.)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
right, i went to school in 01
so i only know richt years. i hesitate to say where my allegiance was before that but lets just say it was where my parents went to school and they were doing very very well in the SEC (still are).
so i could easily be calling for heads to roll. I’m not used to losing, like this at least, ever. Not as long as I’ve followed college football.
but i understand there are no better options out there that are willing to come to UGA at this point in time.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My years in college...
… were the end of the Goff years and the beginning of the Donnan years. You know… when we started a season like this almost every year?
So I think a lot of these people are smokin’ crack.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well, i got some one upsmanship for you
All of my college years (5 of them) were Ray Goff years!
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
My college's football team went undefeated during my entire undergrad career!
(‘Cause we didn’t actually have one. The college President still liked to jokingly take credit for the undefeated status every year though.)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Been there guys,
my years at LSU were Archer’s last and Hallman’s four, but UGA has had 9 straight winning seasons with six of those being 10 or more—with very good recruiting classes along the way, so the bar has been raised on expectations by the media and to an extent your own fan base. We are going through this at LSU with the last two years of 8 and 9 wins respectively while improving form 3 SEC wins to 5 SEC wins being unacceptable by a lot of people both in the media and in our own fan base because of our own success over the last decade.
by mjtig on Sep 29, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait, since when did Mark Richt have multiple
losing seasons? Did I miss a couple of them? I mean, I know I’ve been out of it and a bit depressed about Georgia football, but I doubt I passed out for mlutiple years.
Attempting to create a canard with a measuring stick that Richt hasn’t even had the displeasure of accomplishing is completely ridiculous.
my point exactly
we’d never get there, is my point
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I can agree to that
…I think we’re porbably not that much different in thinking. I doubt Richct would survive a couple of 6-6 seasons, but I would hope we would at least have a suitable replacement lined up for him in that instance. I’m still not quite sure who you find to replace Richt that I would consider an immediate upgrade.
Despite the fact this will never happen, I’m not even sure I’d consider Muschamp an upgrade from Richt. I’m not sure who I would. I seriously doubt Richt has forgotten how to coach.
I am getting a little sick of saying “we’ll see how the year pans out”, though. It’d be nice to see some consistency from the team – well, good consistency. Right now our only kind of consistency is of the bad variety.
It would be silly to predict anything so specific
Which is why I agree that I certainly would be delusional, but I’m not they guy making specific predictions unsupported by historical precedent, now am I?
As far as it being a different time, my response to Gooner above applies. Sure, maybe, but are you really that confident?
I'm not sure what the University of Georgia being a state institution has to do with it, GoonerDawg.
Leaving aside the fact that a public figure’s private faith often has a great deal of bearing on his selection and retention in a position of public trust, I am speaking personally. I respect Mark Richt as a person, in part because of his religious faith, and that influences (in his favor) my support for him. I have a seven-year-old son who often accompanies me to Georgia games; it matters a great deal to me whether our head coach is admirable, since he likely is someone my son will adopt as a role model.
Reasonable fans may feel differently, but your use of “of course” and “absolutely” is misplaced.
Go 'Dawgs!
Any evaluation of Mark Richt should be done dispassionately. . .
The focus should be on his primary job goal – winning football games without getting the University of Georgia in trouble with NCAA. He is simply not doing that at an acceptable rate. Yes, he is a good man. So are a lot of football coaches.
SEC football coaches should be evaluated dispassionately?
If you want dispassionate evaluation, the Bloomberg News quantitative economic analysis blog is down the hall and to your left.
That being said, Mark Richt has still won more football games, more frequently than his predecessor. Or anyone in the SEC not named Urban Meyer or Nick Saban between 2007 and 2009. I can pick sample windows to suit my previously arrived at conclusion, too.
Dangit, MaconDawg...
… you jumped the gun on me. And you made the point better than I did without having to write 7 paragraphs.
You must be a lawyer.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
A solid argument may hint at a member of the Bar.
But the concision? That would actually point the other direction…unless he found a way of billing you for the full 7 paragraphs anyway.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Billing by the paragraph...
… has got to be something some attorney has dreamed up before… (Insert generic attorney joke here.)
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I respect your opinion, GoonerDawg...
… but I completely disagree with every single contention that you made in that post.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
That's fine. . .
But the numbers are undeniable.
1-3 (0-3 in the SEC) – first 3 game losing streak since Ray Goff was the head coach
2-7 in his last 9 SEC games
10-9 in his last 19 SEC contests
Those are unacceptable numbers for a program with inherent advantages of UGA.
CMR was a wonderful coach for the first half of his tenure at UGA. But things have drastically changed. The team is a far, far cry from the halcyon days of the early 2000s.
The numbers you quote do not support the conclusion that you have reached.
It appears that you have reached a conclusion already, and are looking for numbers that support your strongly-held opinion.
You say that last night was the culmination of a four-year slide into mediocrity, but the first statistic that you quoted was the current 2010 record. The second statistic you quoted was Georgia’s SEC record from 10/10/2009 to 9/25/2010. The final statistic you quoted was Georgia’s SEC record from the last 2 seasons plus 2010 YTD.
None of these statistics account for your claim that Georgia has been on a 4-year slide. Two of your stats contain less than a year’s worth of data, and the third encompasses Georgia’s SEC record in 2008, 2009, and the first 3 SEC games of 2010. In addition the “last 9 SEC games” measure is a random statistic that someone chose just to make Georgia’s SEC record sound worse than it is. A measurement of 9 names does not encompass any meaningful time frame. (e.g. 8 games would be 1 season, 16 games would be 2 seasons, 4 games would be half a season… but 9 games? It’s just a random number somebody chose because it came up with a shockingly bad-sounding result.)
If you really want to look at the last 4 years, then Georgia’s rolling SEC record over the last 4 years has been:
2006 (last 5 games): 2-3
2007: 6-2
2008: 6-2
2009: 4-4
2010 (first 3 games): 0-3
Total rolling 4-year record: 18-14
I don’t know how other programs have fared during that time, and since I have a day job I can’t look it up right now. I would dare say that it probably compares favorably to most programs not named Florida or Alabama.
(HINT: If you want to make Georgia look bad, compare Georgia’s SEC record over the last 9 SEC games to Florida and Alabama’s respective records over those games. Then point out that Alabama went undefeated in the SEC in 1992, Florida went undefeated in the SEC in 1991, and conclude that Georgia has really been mired in mediocrity ever since Alabama beat Washington in the Rose Bowl in 1926… and it’s all Mark Richt’s fault.)
We’ve started the 2010 season pretty badly, but let’s at least see how the rest of the season plays out before declaring Mark Richt’s coaching tenure dead.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, like you I have a day job . . .
And I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that my very short post was exhaustive. it was a snapshot, and maybe I should have made that more clear.
I certainly intend to “let the season play out” as I have no choice in the matter, and doing anything right now would be rash.
So, in an attempt to speak plainyl, here’s what I think:
I no longer believe that Mark Richt will turn this program around into a championship contender. I think he is consistently fileding teams that are not as physical as its oppoents, and do not play with the same effort as its opponents. I think of things in terms of likelihoods, and not many coahces are able to pull their teams out of tailspins like the one UGA is experiencing.
This seems to anger you for some reason, and I don’t know why.
I'm not angry...
… all I’m doing is, as you recommended, taking a dispassionate view of your argument and responding to the points that I see as flawed.
Your argument is, inherently, based on opinion and emotion. But you say that we should take a dispassionate view when we disagree with you. You say that “the numbers are undeniable,” but then when faced with opposing statistics, you seem to imply that the numbers don’t matter, and you then re-state your authoritative conclusion/opinion.
If you “no longer believe that Mark Richt will turn this program around into a championship contender,” that’s fine. You have the right to hold any opinion you want.
Based on your response, though, I must say that I believe I was correct in asserting that you first reached a conclusion, then went looking for numbers that supported it.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, disagree. . .
I’m looking at a trend line from 2006 forward, and I see performances in the SEC that are not indicative of a championship level team.
2006 : 4-4
2007: 6-2
2008: 6-2
2009: 4-4
2010: 0-3
Maybe we understand those records differently, which is fine. But that is a .571 winning % in conference play since 2006. Included in that period are some fairly awful losses.
2006 – Vandy and UK
2007 – USC at home, blowout loss to UT that effectively keeps the team from playing in the SECC
2008 – blowout losses to both Bama and UF
2009 – blowout losses to UT and UF (again), and another loss to UK
2010 – loss to Miss St
You can claim that I’m searching for support of a conlcusion already held, but you’d be wrong. Those numbers are mediocre. I don’t believe they are good enough for a program like UGA. And I don’t see where things are getting better on the field. For me, the relevance of 2001-2005 dwindles as the team looks more and more different from the teams of those years. Barring a miracle turnaround, which I would love to see by the way, the University of Georgia is about to have back to back seasons with .500 records or worse in the conference.
What exactly compels the conlcusion that brighter days are ahead? If its past performance, why does that past performance trump the more recent performances?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Georgia’s SEC record from 2006-2009 was 20-12. Here are the conference records for every other SEC team during that 4-season span:
Florida: 29-6
Alabama: 23-11
<—- Georgia goes here
Tennessee: 18-15
Auburn: 16-16
Our-Kansas: 16-17
Sakerlina: 13-19
Kentucky: 12-20
Ole Miss: 11-21
Ms. State: 10-22
Vanderbilt: 7-25
The dictionary defines mediocre as, “average or ordinary in quality.” If Georgia has the 3rd-best conference record, including one of only 4 above .500 records, in a conference that is universally acclaimed as the best in the country, then how can they legitimately be classified as, “mediocre?”
Now, in 2010, I will completely agree with you that the Georgia Bulldogs have been mediocre (at best). I simply don’t believe that the facts support your opinion, however, that the Georgia program has been engaged in a “4 year slide into mediocrity.”
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One more thing...
… I did not state the conclusion that “brighter days are ahead.” In fact, I stated no conclusion in this string of replies about either a brighter or darker future for the Georgia Bulldogs.
I don’t know whether the future under Mark Richt is brighter or not. What I do think is that, given his great success following 20 years of Georgia’s wandering in the football wilderness, Mark Richt should be given the chance to correct the problems that seem to be plaguing his team in 2010.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Where's LSU?
LSU is 20-12 in that period, which ties us with the 3rd best conference record. Of course, they’ve added two wins this year and we’ve added 3 losses, so we’re clearly headed in different directions.
I don’t like the neighborhood we’re in. Everyone below us has either been in major upheaval (Tennessee, Auburn, Ark) or is a never-was (SC, Kentucky, Vandy, etc.).
Back to the point about mediocrity: Assuming we lock up the #4 spot this season, you can slice it however you want — we’re on the outer edge of the top 3rd of the conference or the top of the second quartile. The relevant question is this: Is this a program that will challenge Alabama or Florida any time soon? Nothing I’ve seen in recent years makes me think so, but maybe I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.
SEC Pigskin Podcast with Barney Able and Dorsey Hill
http://www.secpigskinpodcast.com/
by aproposdenada on Sep 27, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured I'd miss somebody.
Actually, LSU is 21-12 in that time, since I included wins and losses in SEC Championship Games in the above statistics. But you’re right… Georgia would be fourth.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
But we're not Florida or Alabama
And not even the Mark Richt we all loved from 2001-5 would be able to change that, not in the short or even medium term. If we gave him another decade, and he gave us at least one other brilliant 4- to 5-year stretch in that decade, maybe.
Until then…well, to use a Big Ten analogy, we’re not Ohio State or Michigan, and aren’t going to become either of them tomorrow or next week or next year whatever we do. We’re Wisconsin. That doesn’t mean that we can’t ever expect to be in the national title mix once in awhile…but our expectations need to be a little more modest, lest we run off what just might be the best coach we could hope for just because he can’t permanently break us out of that #3 spot in the pecking order.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Iowa or Penn State is the more apt analogy, . . .
. . . but your point still stands.
Go 'Dawgs!
Yeah, I should've said Iowa
Especially since that’s the state my father’s family hails from. Always had a soft spot for the Hawkeyes.
(Or maybe it’s just less painful to come out and baldly say that Iowa isn’t on the same level as the two big boys, and probably won’t be for some time.)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Er...
I mean less painful to say that for Wisconsin.
Man, the inability to edit posts really grinds my gears sometimes…
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
My question was, "Can we challenge them?" not "Can we be them."
Big 10 or World War II analogies are fun, but they’re not how anyone in Butts-Mehre should be thinking about this situation.
Structurally, the answer to my question is a resounding yes. We have the budget, the donor base, the recruiting base, the fan support, the facilities and the pedigreed AD to expect to go .500 against Bama or Florida over a given period. Hell, we have an all-time winning record against Florida. We are not so fundamentally disadvantaged that we have pin our hopes on the occasional upset.
It will most assuredly get worse before it gets better. I don’t know how that plays out, or over what timeline, but this program has too many solid underpinnings to have to live off of Bama’s and Florida’s crumbs for the rest of our lifetimes.
SEC Pigskin Podcast with Barney Able and Dorsey Hill
http://www.secpigskinpodcast.com/
by aproposdenada on Sep 27, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well said.
I don’t know how that plays out, or over what timeline, but this program has too many solid underpinnings to have to live off of Bama’s and Florida’s crumbs for the rest of our lifetimes.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
(Should be quote marks around that of course.)
Somehow the message board tried to help me there, and both quotation marks and the rest of my post went poof.
I intended to go on to say that it’s been impressive how we’ve been managing to find common ground on so many of these threads here today. Are y’all sure we’re operating the Interwebs correctly?
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But Florida is not OSU or Michigan
either. At least in terms of multi-decade dominance. We CAN be “Florida”. Heck, we SHOULD be “Florida”. I have to give Alabama their due in this regard but without the ability to stock pile talent like Bear did, Alabama will come back soon enough. I believe that CMR has earned our patience until these things happen. At this juncture, I still believe that he is our best choice (but he needs to find his GATA and soon).
Florida is a relative newcomer.
The circumstances were unique though. Big population growth with even bigger growth in in-state talent pool…a good long spell with Spurrier when he was still kinda awesome…
I don’t know that any coach, alive or dead, could have put Florida or Florida State on the map before the mid-1980s…and I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that even a slightly-above-average coach would have been able to bring either program most of the way along by the mid-1990s.
(That’s not to deny, however, the impressive edge the dead coaches would have over Mark Richt in ensuring the players are scared of them.)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't argue with that
And it’s completely unacceptable. Clearly CMR needs to make major changes to the coaching staff, the playcalling, the mentality on the team. I think it’s pretty obvious Bobo needs to go, though I’m not sure if he should go completely, or whether it’s now or if Richt just takes over playcalling until the end of the year when we can find a real OC. I do agree that we need to start tailoring what we do to how we’re playing. If we can’t pass protect, we need to work out of the spread more, which Murray will thrive in. Never thought I’d say we should work out of the spread, but what we are doing is not working. We can’t keep trying to do the same things and hope that our OL finally learns how to block, we need to run some different plays in our playbook. And for God’s sake, stop running our 150 pound 3rd string back up the middle where we can’t open up a hole the size of a needle. And why is our 3rd string back even on the field?
Why is Logan Gray returning punts? I understand he could have transferred and that is rewarding him with getting as much game time as he can, but the best thing is does is fair catch. Let’s get some speedsters out there and see what they can do. God knows we need all the help we can get this year.
Respectfully disagree
The SEC is more competitive than it has ever been, and it is abundantly clear that CMR is not willing to make the sort of changes needed to keep up.
For all of Mike Bobo’s faults, the mere fact that Mark Richt appointed him offensive coordinator before the Chik-Fil-A bowl at the end of the 2006 season was a change. Perhaps a change that, ultimately, failed…but change nevertheless. He simply hired the wrong guy.
The addition of Todd Grantham also dispels your statement. The desired results have not been achieved yet, certainly, but there are encouraging signs despite the teething troubles/pains. We all agree that this particular change probably should have been meted at the conclusion of the 08 season (probably much earlier.) Richt is guilty for this delay, but it is what it is.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
by DavetheDawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Grantham is doing fine
He does not have the right personnel for his scheme and they’re clearly giving up some big plays, which is symptomatic of having a defense that’s still learning the scheme and where the players aren’t ideal for the positions they’re playing in. Holding Miss St to 24 points should have been enough for us to win the game, still.
What is obvious is that our offense has major issues. Our OL is a liability, not an asset. With that being said, we need to go to plays in our playbook that do not require our OL to pass protect for more than 1 second. Screens, spread plays, etc. Something where Murray is not going to get plastered every play. Watching the “highlights” from Saturday, I saw Murray repeatedly making plays with his arm or with his feet. That kid is trying more and has more heart than almost anyone on the team, other than Durham. Not saying all his passes are perfect or that he doesn’t lock onto a receiver, but he is more than holding his own out there.
by andycapps on Sep 27, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not so fast . . .
I am as disappointed as anyone in Dawg Nation. However, if you really want to fire Mark Richt, you’ll have to replace him with someone that is better than him. I’m not talking about better than him right now, but better than him for the next 10 years to come.
Any coach worthy of leading the Dawgs on the field and excelling in recruiting is already locked up (in the NCAA or NFL) and is making more than Richt’s $2M. Add to that, any qualified coach is already running a winning program. There is no incentive for a top coach to leave a great current job, to come to UGA.
Sure, we’re a storied and tradition-rich program, but imagine how we’ll look to the nation and all potential coaching candidates if we fire a coach who has 90-plus wins in 10 seasons. That makes the job seem like a position in which no one can succeed.
We need to fix the program inside-out. Richt will have to make tough choices–during this season and the offseason–to get the Dawgs back on track. Truth be told, we are still implementing changes he initiated this past offseason. Nobody expected us to be world beaters on defense with a completely new scheme.
Let’s stay the course with Richt. He has earned a little grace around here. Or, we could just be short-sighted, rash and impulsive. Worked out pretty good for Tennessee, huh?
Go Dawgs!!
by HaroldWayneJenkins on Sep 27, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm...
…I appreciate what you’re saying about the separation of church and state, and agree, but someone who actively – and honestly – practices a faith (or doesn’t) gives an outsider an indication of what they think is important. A caveat – we have to guess about a) whether they’re sincere, and b) whether they’re successful in that practice. But unlike sex or race, faith is something that is chosen.
And…uh…even though our family/society might have more bearing on what faith we choose as adults than we’d like to admit, if we want to discount faith as simply the product of growing up in a certain kind of household, we’re back to square one, at least as far as “morality” goes. Because that just means CMR didn’t choose, but for better or worse was likely taught XYZ nevertheless.
So – for GA residents, I think it’s fair for them to – cautiously – use an active practice of faith just like they’d look at, say, fidelity to a spouse or care with finances, charitable work, etc, to see if someone might be a good fit for a position. At least in the court of public opinion, which is what we’re talking about here, right? Frankly, I imagine that CMR has gotten a recruit or two whose mama felt better sending his kid to go play for that nice Christian Mr. Richt….
What were we talking about? Oh, right…
by Actual Box of Cornflakes on Sep 27, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a data point. And a significant data point.
But how significant?
I tend to agree with dawgaddict elsewhere on this page. The less you see Coach Richt’s character bearing fruit in the bearing and behavior of his players, the less weight we should give it.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
As a lot of people have pointed out, losing would have just a little less sting if these jokers were tired from all the boxes of canned goods for the poor they’d been collecting. But they keep winding up in the police blotter. That’s really more embarrassing than losing several (lest we forget) fairly close games.
by Actual Box of Cornflakes on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I want to believe
but with each week that passes it gets harder and harder.
The problem for me lies in the worry that the problems we are seeing are at a very basic level in terms of motivation, trust and responsibility, rather than scheme.
And based on the public comments of the coaches they dont seem to recognize the issues. The key sentiment I am referring to is when they talk about how they are doing everything the same as they were back in 2005.
I fully grant that I am not at practice, I dont know what plays are being called, and I am not spending hours each week in the film room breaking down each play so it is hard to make definitive statements about specific calls/plays etc. What I can see though is a team getting dominated on the lines, playing without fire, and seemingly more often than not being coached to play extremely conservative rather than attacking (see between the tackle runs by Thomas and 100% dedication to fair catches).
What is really frustrating about the coaching, especially on the offensive side, is that we are getting destroyed from a tactical standpoint. Granted there is a redshirt freshman QB, and the defenses at times are putting 9 in the box, so it is impossible to block 9 with 5/6 linemen and a back or two. Fine. So scheme around it. Dont run into the teeth of it. Dont “blindly call runs” without a purpose or plan.
When it gets right down to it I am really looking for a reason to believe that this team can change. Im starting to see the possibility on the defensive side and when Grantham was hired I knew there were going to be blown assignments but I am ok with that because the other changes I see make me believe the trend has been reversed. On the offensive side and the off the field side I am really really looking for reasons to believe in the coaches ability to change something and I just dont see it.
I want to believe but right now I just dont see any sign that this current non defensive staff is going to be able to make those changes.
Lastly, Id love for someone to look at what might have changed that moved the examples of great coaches with bad stretches from the bad to the good. And how that might compare at all to today given how different the game is.
Yeah, I loved that...
Hearing CMR “blindly” sticking to a couple of runs. Now, I’ve never been an OC, but why run a play I know is set up for failure? Blindly…even Pop Warner coaches don’t blindly run a play! (BTW, those are some awesome games to watch—Pop Warner that is.)
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
CMR didn’t blindly stick to it. CMB did.
That comment from CMR was one of the most clear and glaring indictments of a coach I’ve ever heard from him. Especially during the season.
Not to be ugly Muckbeast
But last time I checked, CMR is the HC, not CMB. And I don’t think CMR would ever leave one of his subordinates (coach or player) out to dry. He said it himself, as the HC everything on that team is his responsibility. Yet one of the reasons I’m sure a ton of us support him…
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
Mark Richt has input into how both the offense and defense are run...
… but he’s said before that he’s still somewhat involved in the offense, just not on every single play-call. He doesn’t just have those headsets on to block out crowd noise, after all.
In this case, Muckbeast, I agree with you that the “blindly sticking to it” quote is pretty bad. Of course, it was right after a game, in the heat of the moment, and he might just not have had a better answer immediately at the ready. Just doing it because “we need to do it,” though, is not a reason to call a play that fails repeatedly.
The farther we go down this path,the more I become convinced that Mike Bobo has just been promoted beyond his level of competence. He’s a very good quarterbacks coach, but apparently just not that great of an OC. Perhaps Mark Richt should take the reins of the offense back.
Of course, it might not be possible to put the toothpaste back in the tube as it relates to the offense… and that’s concerning, because I’m fairly certain that there’s a 0% chance that he’s going to fire Bobo. Demote to QB coach? Just take over play-calling? Possibly. But I don’t think he’s going to fire him.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I like CMR. Always have. And I’ve yet to come across the accusation — even from the most virulently impatient, unreasonable fan — that he can’t coach. His failures seem to be more managerial in nature than a lack of strategy or knowledge of the game.
As to dry spells — is that not what we’ve been enduring for the last 4 years???? We finished strong in 2007, yes, but that #2 ranking (though I was very happy and proud of our team then) is not the same as an SEC title. It looks great on paper and can be trotted out in elaborate statistical defenses of the head coach (or to bolster his leverage during contract negogiations), but past rankings carry little weight unless you were sitting at #1.
As a fan, I don’t want to see Richt leave. I think a lot of him as a person. It’s also because of him that Georgia fans have such high expectations in the first place. But the post game comments were hard to stomach. I know coaches take chances and sometimes just throw spaghetti up against the wall, but come on. As the inestimable Doug Gillet has pointed out in regard to a coach’s obligation to formulate a quality game plan: “You are paid to figure that shit out.”
Well done.
CMR’s tenure at UGA is at a tipping point. He has taken the first step at re-asserting his authority and expressing his displeasure over the off-field buffoonery with the dismissal of Demetre Baker. Over the stretch of games from Boulder to Jax he will need to reassert his authority over the in-game buffoonery. When he turned over playcalling to CMB in the 2006 season he wanted to take more of an “executive” approach. Well when he took less of an executive approach (see 4th qurater team talk during the Arkansas game and 4th quater on Saturday when methinks HE was calling the plays), the team responds ,and responds well. He needs to continue to light a fire under himself, his coaches, and his players. I’ve never been on the OMG FIRE MARK RICHT OMG HOTSEAT!!! HOTSEAT!!! bandwagon, but I see where more reasoned commenters here and on other blogs are beginning to waver. This is the tipping point.
by Bard Parker on Sep 27, 2010 7:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think if he finds himself fired at season's end
We’ll see that the WVU Sugar Bowl was the tipping point, or at least the beginning of the downward portion on his parabola of a career at UGA.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ray of sunshine
I do appreciate the gentle reminders about how patience ultimately paid off with two Hall of Fame coaches, Wally Butts and Vince Dooley. I think it was appropriate to say. But I still can’t shake this feeling of a crisis of confidence.
CMR literally looked exasperated. When a coach gets that look on his face its safe to say that he’s’ close to his breaking point. From here he will either gather the resolve to work his way out of this mess or he will come to understand that he’s done all he can do in this current part of his life and its time to move on. I really don’t know which way CMR is going to go at this point.
Like you, I like and respect him. I’ve never been more proud of a human being associated with UGA as I have with Mark Richt, and by extension, his family. However, his lack of management is what has gotten us where we are. His teams are fundamentally unsound and look like they are poorly coached. He recruits top flight athletes and then pounds a philosophy of safety into them that keeps much of their gifts in check. He’s made some terrible hires. And he’s trusted some people that weren’t ready for the responsibility he gave to them.
This won’t change until Mark Richt changes. And if he’s not prepared to change, then McGarity must make some changes himself. Because right now Mark Richt’s program is starting to resemble the LSU program that Mike Archer allowed to disintegrate. You see, history goes both ways.
by Snarles Q. Dawg on Sep 27, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions
On my way in to the office, it occurred to me . . .
. . . that I should have entitled this posting “Jeremiah Was a Bulldog.”
I totally blew the call on that one. Perhaps it’s time to put me on the hot seat. :)
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Sep 27, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully CMR will pull out of this...
…go on to some years of success, and then go on to have some crappy seasons again and you’ll get another opportunity :)
by Slakmehl on Sep 27, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't blame you for going back and changing it
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
I Corinthians 9:24
by Southern Dawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Morning Pooches!
Let’s hope Georgia won’t fire Mark Richt. That wouldn’t be cool. They should give him a chance to get things back on track. Perhaps starting on Saturday. Those of you going to the game will get to see that buffalo (or bison) storm the field. I’m sure she can’t quite believe her tasks in life. I predict that Georgia ekes out a victory against my undergrad alma mater. I kind of hope so for Richt’s sake. Folsom Field is small but flanked by dramatic mountains. They don’t get that into football in Colorado; and have a certain disdain for us getting so into it down here in the South – as if it is tragic and pathetic on some level to care so much about what a bunch of undergrad kids – half of whom shouldn’t have high school diplomas – do every Saturday in the fall. I also predict that Auburn will beat Monroe and that Florida will kick the ever loving crap out of West Bammer. Let’s keep our fingers crossed!
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
by DavetheDawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I know. Too many of those pesky three syllable words. Will try to do better.
by Stephen1980 on Sep 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
by DavetheDawg on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
How can things get better in the interim?
It’s Monday morning. I’m still way too frustrated to speak in anything other than anecdotal generalities, but from a pure personnel standpoint, how is it going to get better before it gets worse?
Our offensive line, which has underachieved not lived up to expectations been really, really bad in both facets of the game stands to only get worse with the graduation of half the eight deep. That means even fewer holes for our above-average tailbacks and less time to throw for our supremely talented quarterback.
Depth at WR will seemingly continue to be a problem. It is not difficult to envision a scenario in which this is the case. Just close your eyes and imagine if A.J. Green didn’t play in the first four games of 2010. Oh wait….
Six of the eleven starters (assuming no early entries) on defense return with a year of experience in the 3-4 under their belt. Perhaps modest improvement might be in the cards.
And who are we asking to rotate in to the two- and three-deep depth chart? The worst UGA recruiting class in a decade. Yes, the obvious caveats and platitudes apply. Recruiting rankings do not equate to on the field performance/predicting the abilities of an 18 year old kid is an exercise in futility/ask Rennie Curran how many stars he thinks Rivals should have given him/etc are all fair, if not legitimate counterpoints. But it is equally undeniable that the two are at least loosely correlated. Assuming arguendo that these rankings at least merit lip service consideration, the least-talented group of Bulldogs since Jim Donnan stalked the sidelines will be suiting up in the silver britches and asked to effect meaningful change on the field next season. Have we shown the ability to "coach ‘em up?"
Sadly, Mike Bobo cannot graduate again. So we will continue to see the sort of maddeningly inane play calling that leads to play-action passes 21 of 24 times when we line up under center and "blindly" running a 170 lb back into a nine man front "no matter what."
This is the current state of the program. It’s not the losses to overmatched Kentucky and Tennessee squads. It’s not losing to Mississippi State. It’s 2-7 in the last 9 SEC contests. 2-7!!! Only Vanderbilt has shown conference ineptitude on so widespread a canvas. We are literally the 11th best SEC program for the past year and a half’s worth of conference games. To say that this even borders on acceptability is obviously beyond the pale.
The penalties and turnover margin were seemingly under control after the first two contests. Obviously, those improvements, the quintessential hallmark of a well coached team, were a mirage. The off the field problems and Willie Martinez ineptitudes have been thoroughly documented. I guess the bottom line is this member of the Bulldog nation “just don’t know.” I can sympathize with the tenor of this post- it sure is nice to be able to point to the sidelines of your alma mater and say with pride- son, that’s Mark Richt and he’s a great man. A man of integrity. He’s never been caught in a strip club with his University’s credit card, or assured a scorned recruit that he would soon be pumping gas. I would want Mark Richt to marry my daughter. I would want Mark Richt be godfather to my child, but I just don’t know if I want him coaching my football team anymore.
"Dorsey Hill thinks when you die you go to Vince Dooley's house. He can't wait." --The Incomparable Lewis Grizzard
Your argument is well-stated, Law Dawg.
The only direct retort I can make to your argument is that the 9-game statistic is pretty random, and probably chosen by someone on the TV or radio because of its dramatic result.
No one can dispute, however, that the 2009 season and the 2010 season-to-date are both abject disappointments to Bulldog Nation. It’s understandable that one might lose one’s faith in the leadership of an organization that has hit such difficult times (though, I would argue, times that are not nearly as difficult as those seen in any program that resides in our neighbor state to the north).
Those who would argue that past statistics should have no bearing on current expectations are right when saying one thing: The world has changed dramatically since the 40’s, 50’s, and even the 70’s and 80’s. In today’s world, one losing season can get a great coach fired at many institutions. In today’s world, 3 straight losses can cause media all around the country to start questioning whether or not you have “lost your touch” as a coach. In today’s world, “historical perspective” does not exist.
I think the best answer I can make to your argument is that it’s important to realize that sometimes great coaches simply have “down cycles” during their career, and this appears to be a “down cycle” in Mark Richt’s career. To fire him as a coach simply because he cannot prove the axiom, “What goes up must stay up forever,” might feel good to some, but in my opinion would cause irreparable harm to the University of Georgia’s football program.
Perhaps the best question, though, is whether historical perspective exists in the office of Georgia’s new athletic director. He’s the one that’s ultimately pulling the strings.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Vineyarddawg you are absolutely right...
First, the 2-7 record is clearly sensationalist. The best way to unravel the mypoic viewpoint (for better or for worse) of a cited statistic is to look at the game immediately preceeding it- and of course, UGA is 3-7 over the last 10 games with their SEC coevals. Richt’s 50-25 through his first 75 contests represents a much more holistic approach.
Second, once again, you are correct that SEC coaches, even the longest tenured one in all the conference, no longer have the luxury of historical perspective to which Tommy Tuberville and David Cutcliffe can intimately attest. And while things are certainly different now from those past decades, I would respectfully submit that things have changed just as significantly in the last half of this decade alone, when the SEC went full-out thernonuclear with the hiring of Meyer in the Swamp and Saban at the Capstone. Richt is 20-15 in conference during the aftermath of those hirings, with a distinctly downward trend. I think it is unquestionable to assert that Richt’s “downtrend” largely coincides with the rise of the Tide/Gator hegemony of the past half-decade. But can it be entirely explained by it? We are 3-8 against our SEC bretheren the last time we have played them, with current winning streaks over only Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Auburn. I think that’s my open question and one that the rest of the fanbase is asking themselves today.
I guess I just feel like one of those punch drunk fighters who has been hit in the mouth Saturday after Saturday for the last year and a half and the cumulative effect has made such concepts as historical perspective taste like apologetic vinegar in my mouth.
For me, your last point is absolutely the most relevant. And since McGarity has seen the lambasting of the Dawgs through his blue-and-orange tinted glasses for the last decade plus, really how long is our Top Dawg’s leash?
"Dorsey Hill thinks when you die you go to Vince Dooley's house. He can't wait." --The Incomparable Lewis Grizzard
Once again, I can't really argue the point that you make.
I must concede that, despite my reservations, it’s not at all implausible that Greg McGarity could soon choose to make a change at the head of the Bulldog football program. I just think it would be a really bad decision. :-)
And by the way, I appreciate the civility with which you can disagree with others. Are you certain that you’re a lawyer? Shoot, I’ll bet you haven’t even read the rules of the internet yet.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
is quoting the 2-7 record any more sensationalist...
I think it is unquestionable to assert that Richt’s "downtrend" largely coincides with the rise of the Tide/Gator hegemony of the past half-decade. But can it be entirely explained by it? We are 3-8 against our SEC bretheren the last time we have played them, with current winning streaks over only Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Auburn. I think that’s my open question and one that the rest of the fanbase is asking themselves today.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
is quoting the 2-7 record any more sensationalist...
than talking about beating Tech 8 of 9 lately?
or UF mentioning 17-3 in any context?
i think people talk about it bc it’s interesting…and factual.
you can’t discredit talk radio by ignoring it, no matter how foolish the message.
don’t know why the post above quoted you like that, Law Dawg, but those words are like science or something.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
In a word, yes.
The GT statistic represents Richt’s record against them. The UF stat represents the fundamental shift that occurred at Florida with the hiring of Spurrier. The 2-7 number is simply the lowest winning percentage you can possibly get out of UGA’s SEC record.
As that number is generally being used to support the idea that UGA has been on a downslide for anywhere from 2-5 years, a more meaningful number would correlate to those time periods. So if being used to support a 2 year slide (counting this year) from the beginning of 2009, our SEC record is 4-7. If claiming a 3 year slide – cite 10-9. For a 4 year slide – cite 16-11. And for 5 year slide, cite 20-15. However, to start counting in the third conference game in a season, ignoring the 2 conference wins preceding it, doesn’t represent any meaningful period.
Now, while I agree with Vine that 2-7 is an arbitrary and sensationalist number to choose, I don’t think either of us are trying to argue that it’s not true, or that it’s ok, but rather that it’s being used to try to throw more ink onto an already dark enough page.
Vineyard and dawgaddict,
Thanks for the kind words. While I truly concur with the overwrought lawyer joke “that its the 90% of lawyers that give the 10% of us a bad name,” I hope between the leadership of this blog with TKyle and MaconDawg and humble commenters like myself, we can salvage some of the cordiallity that I was taught should come part and parcel with the profession. I mean, I wore seersucker during moot court for cryin’ out loud! :-)
At the end of the day, this has been as cathartic an avenue for venting as any. That said, I am still at a loss as to whether Mark Richt is the right man to lead this program into the next decade for all the reasons, pro and con, mentioned above. Here’s to Greg McGarity- may he be imparted with the wisdom to make the right decision on behalf of the entire Bulldog Nation.
"Dorsey Hill thinks when you die you go to Vince Dooley's house. He can't wait." --The Incomparable Lewis Grizzard
by Law Dawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Biblical Theories
Great post! Of course, and in keeping with the Biblical theories, there’s always the chance that God called Coach Richt to go to Ninevah and he said, “No.” In that case, we could be looking at a ship on a stormy sea that will only be saved if he leaves. Just a thought. :) I personally think UGA would be crazy to let him get away.
Also, since you were comparing Dooley’s stats, here are a couple of others that I think are interesting:
Coach Dooley won one National Championship. . . .in his 17th year of coaching. CMR has been here 8 years.
Coach Dooley won 7 games or less in 12 of his 25 years of coaching, nearly half of his seasons. CMR has won 8 games or less once, that’s a 12% clip, this year would make it twice (or 20% of his seasons).
But you've forgotten one very important thing!
EVERYTHING’S CHANGED AND NOTHING IS THE SAME. HISTORY MEANS NOTHING FIRE MARK RICHT.
(I’m joking, of course. Welcome to DawgSports, shanammons!)
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Step one--- Identify the problem Step two -- solve the problem
The big problem at the root of all the little problems seems to be a lack of discipline as well as a lack of respect for the school and team. Maybe the second is a result of the times we live in. We recruit higher level athletes who now view their colleges as a means to an end. I can only assume that the players view getting suspended for games as an individual consequence. Either they don’t realize what this does to their team mates, or they don’t care about their team mates.
However, discipline comes from the top down. Following team rules requires discipline. Wrapping up on a tackle requires discipline. Blocking for your teamates requires discipline. We have no discipline.
Richt has replaced Martinez and will proably replace Bobo. But will this restore discipline? If it doesn’t then we have not solved the problem.
by hbtd on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Do we forget where Richt came from?
Mark Richt learned many useful things at the feet of Bobby Bowden. What was surely not among them, however, was how to maintain tight discipline and ensure that athletes uphold high standards both on and off the field. He’s had to figure that out for himself…and as it’s only been a couple of years since he started keenly perceiving the need to learn, I can understand that he’s still fumbling about for solutions there.
I find it less excusable when he and his players show signs of regressing. The Ealey turnover on Saturday stands as a symbol of that to me. Yes, he had just gotten hit. But even if he was not 100% sharp that particular moment, as he sat there and watched the MSU player cover the football, I still suspect that if he were on the 2002 team, something implanted deep in the reptilian part of his brain would have been shouting at him, “FINISH THE DRILL!”
My fear is that we don’t have that now, and Richt is at a loss as to how to imprint that principle — or any other component of his fine character — on his players sufficiently to turn things around.
I absolutely fear change, however, and it’s not just because I’m risk-averse by nature. Some folks gabbing on the Interwebs seem to think that:
a) Having an Urban Meyer or Nick Saban as your head coach will, by itself, practically ensure a Mythical National Championship within five years.
2) Getting a Meyer or Saban requires only firing your current coach, and then plucking one of them off the tree.
3) It is always obvious in advance who is a Meyer or Saban and who is a Zook or DuBose before you hire them.
None of those things are true; and nobody -but nobody - can promise me that if we fire Mark Richt we won’t wind up being Kiffykinned or DACOACHOed. (If pressed, I’d actually lay money on the nightmare scenario right now. How quickly people forget the Defensive Coordinator search…)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I would love to hire a UGA alum...
as head coach.
a defensive-minded UGA alum.
don’t tell me Kirby Smart or Will Muschamp wouldn’t come off their contracts for a shot to HC the Dawgs, bc I won’t believe it till I read it.
“If we score, we may win. If they never score, we’ll never lose.” -Erk Russell. via davethedawg
forget the offensive headgames, I want to see our D so good that our O can score twice and win.
if Grantham is the answer, i hope he can teach these young men his secrets by the time we play Auburn and Tech. losing to all 3 rivals in a season is unforgivable, and although i may love Richt again after that, i will never forget it.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Will Muschamp ain't walking through that door.
He’s been named the head coach in waiting at Texas, and Mack Brown is approaching retirement.
Kirby Smart, who came close to making a lateral move to come to Georgia as defensive coordinator last year, almost certainly would accept the opportunity to become the head coach at his alma mater, but Coach Muschamp is off the table. There aren’t many programs that could outspend Georgia to keep a coach in the fold, but Texas is one of them.
Go 'Dawgs!
Kirby Smart would be another Saban protege
Which seems to be in high demand in college football right now. He’d also be very defensive minded, and very familiar with the 3-4 which might enable him to work very well with Grantham. Not that I’m saying I’d even support Richt being gone at this juncture, though I do think that Bobo and Van Halenger should be shown the door. Not that Bobo isn’t a good Bulldog, but he’s just not cutting it. His flaws are evident to anyone watching the games.
by andycapps on Sep 27, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For him it was a lateral move
And who could argue with him for not moving? He is on a team that hasn’t lost a regular season game in well over a full season. He made the right call, honestly. As far as burning bridges with UGA, I doubt that. Plus, McGarity as at the helm now and even if it ever got to the point where we’re looking for a head coach, I’m sure he’d still be on the short list of candidates.
by andycapps on Sep 27, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Re: Sabanites...
… which seems to be in high demand in college football right now…
You know, there was a time when Rich Rodriguez was in high demand in college football right now. And there was a time when Glen Mason was in high demand in college football right now. And Dan Hawkins… and Tyrone Willingham… and about 10 dozen other fads that have come and gone.
A longer-term perspective is needed when it comes to building the Georgia program.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely
And I’m not calling for Richt to be gone, at this point. We clearly do need an offensive overhaul right now, the question is to go back to Richt calling the plays or whether we need someone else, and when to make this change?
I see what you're saying...
… and if my reply was too sharp, I apologize. I’m a little on-edge today. :-)
by vineyarddawg on Sep 27, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's okay
We all are. :) We’re all on the same side here, and I didn’t take it offensively. I’m trying to throw out constructive criticism, and believe me, I had none on Saturday night. I was just upset and embarrassed of my team.
See? This is what I'm talking about when I say it's not like a message board.
We get heated, and sometimes brush up against a line or two in the immediate aftermath of a loss, but, for the most part, I think we’re all oars in the same boat, all pulling in the same direction, and trying to seek consensus on the thorny issues confronting us as a fan base.
Go 'Dawgs!
well...
i said i wouldn’t believe it till i read it, and now i’ve read it. :)
but put yourself in Muschamp’s shoes.
HCIW at UT, or HC at your alma mater?
i’m not saying it’s unbelievable, but the man does have some red&black blood in his veins…
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
And why exactly
do we prefer a muschamp or smart, with no head coaching experience at all? That gamble paid off with Richt, but I don’t think that’s a high-percentage hire in general.
Would you prefer getting
the head coach from Boise State? Maybe the guy from Utah? Because it’s going to be hard to get someone from anyone consistently ranked in the top 10 to leave their school. Your normal course is an underachieving conference coach who we feel could do well if they had our recruits, an overachieving coach from an underachieving conference (Boise State or Utah), or a coordinator from a successful team.
by andycapps on Sep 27, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i just want a defensive-minded HC
and they seem to be in people’s minds a lot.
i don’t know whether they would be especially successful, but let’s not pretend coaches with prior HC experience are any more inclined to win bc of that practice.
excepting Saban and Meyer lol
but let’s not except Spurrier, Erickson, Kiffin, or Willingham from that comparison, either.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Really all of this is premature
A better talk would be what do we want in a new offensive coordinator? Are we looking for a conference guy? At this point, I’d be more inclined to look west of the Mississippi if we’re looking for a new OC. And what kind of scheme do we want? We sticking with pro-style or are we going to more of a spread?
how bout Richt for OC?
haha
no.
i’m serious. then Bobo could be the QB coach again.
and maybe we’d get another David Greene (game-manager) instead of recruiting studs that turn into spuds.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
I mentioned that today to a friend
And it is definitely a possibility, though I remember how everyone in Dawg Nation was convinced that we needed someone else back then because Richt was too conservative and we were losing games back then because of that. So I don’t know, I could see Richt taking over playcalling for the rest of the year, having Bobo be the QB coach, and bringing in a new OC at the end of the year. That is one possibility. The other possibility is that Richt starts enforcing his will on Bobo and starts overriding what he calls. Another possibility is nothing changes through the end of the year. The last possibility is that Richt just fires Bobo midseason, which I don’t see happening.
haha
i was suggesting him as OC instead of HC.
sorry to confuse the issue.
i also think Richt was not good as a HC/OC and don’t want to return to that.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Me either
At least not on a permanent basis, but what I would prefer as a fan is “I could see Richt taking over playcalling for the rest of the year, having Bobo be the QB coach, and bringing in a new OC at the end of the year.”
I think at this point if Richt were calling the plays, he realizes the pretty dire straits that the program is in as well as his career in Athens, and we could see some good playcalling out of him. Clearly he knows how to do it and did great his first couple years. I think with the sucess he had, he started to back off a bit and become more conservative, though he did also have Van Gorder and those great defenses back then.
by andycapps on Sep 27, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
UGA alumni as coaches cause more problems than they solve. The stress and expectations are too high. You have to hire outside your school for great success.
Kirby and Will are not / not / not coming to UGA. Its a pointless argument.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
by tankertoad on Sep 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s a pointless argument because we all know that if Richt is fired, the first door we’re knocking on is Derek Dooley’s. ;)
The only reason to fire Richt this year rather than next,
would be for the sheer giddy fun of seeing a first-year head coach abandon Knoxville for the second year in a row.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
History certainly backs you up on that, tankertoad.
With the exception of George Woodruff (who had no expectations: he was a successful businessman who agreed to coach the team for $1.00 a year in the ’20s; he could have walked away at any time, and eventually did of his own volition), Georgia alumni have been notable for their lack of success as head coaches in Athens. Johnny Griffith and Ray Goff, who played for very successful Bulldog squads in 1946 and 1976, respectively, were the two worst Red and Black head football coaches of the last 100 years.
Go 'Dawgs!
Maybe not as a Head Coach, but
I’d like to see Herschel come on board with S&C one year to motivate. I’ve gathered that he’s willing to work for chicken-finger money, so I think we could afford it.
I'd expect him to get great results with a scarily effective Good Cop/Bad Cop routine.
(Sorry. Couldn’t resist going for that one.)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why I was careful to say Georgia grads have been unsuccessful . . .
. . . as head coaches for the Bulldogs. Plenty of Georgia grads have made good assistant coaches, although some have not.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more.
“next level” is more often down than up.
by hbtd on Sep 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One more thing...
…related to the Dooley comparisons.
Maybe it’s because I grew up out West, and so football outside the Pac 10 was hardly on my radar screen until after his glory days had passed…but personally, I’ve always put Coach Dooley in the category of “very very good…but nevertheless, highly overrated”. (I lean on this category heavily in making sense of the weird, wired, and continually hyped world we live in.)
If he hadn’t managed to win an MNC with Herschel Walker – and he was one “run, Lindsay, run!” from failing to do so – wouldn’t he have a vastly more ordinary reputation? (Maybe even…gulp…a large pack of naysayers, down to this very day?)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
ah, thanks Blog Goliard.
I should’ve put mine in reply to yours…or just rec’d yours lol
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Thats the thing
Every Most great seasons are one miracle play away from never happening. Sometimes its a matter of catching all the breaks, or, catching none of them.
2009/2010 aside, Mark Richt has UGA in a position that where, if the breaks fall our way, its a special season.
And to the “luck is when preparation meets opportunity” reply that I expect is coming, sometimes, luck is just luck. Miss St. put the ball on the ground at least twice (One picture perfect strip from behind) . Once, it bounced out of bounds and once, it bounced into a Miss St. players hands. Ealey got knocked out and the ball landed perfectly in the field of play with no UGA players around to contest it. I remember this happening last season as well and seeing some sort of statistic showing the number of times the opposing team put the ball on the ground and the number of times it was recovered by Georgia, and how that ratio was significantly smaller than the norm.
you're suggesting that we need 'luck' to beat MsSt?
and you’re ok with that?
we are from a different school of fandom.
agreed, our turnover margin is laughable.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Our turnover margin is zero.
In 2010, Georgia has had five giveaways and five takeaways. The Bulldogs are tied for sixth in the conference in turnover margin.
While our turnovers have tended to come at the most inopportune times (e.g., Washaun Ealey’s two fumbles inside the five yard line), we have significantly improved in that area from last year to this year. Being even in turnovers isn’t where we want to be, but it is a long way from laughable. As many SEC schools have a worse turnover margin in 2010 as have a better one.
Go 'Dawgs!
c'mon Kyle
http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/uga-turnaround-must-start-594954.html
let’s not count our chickens before they hatch, this season is still fresh in spite of our 1-3 start. granted, our QB isn’t throwing to the other team as often, but we still have a long way to go.
being ranked down at #52 in turnover margins this season isn’t exactly where I want to be…http://statistics.ncaafootball.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=ncaa-football&page=cfoot/stat/ncaa-team-turnovers.htm
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
I didn't say it was.
In fact, I very specifically wrote: “Being even in turnovers isn’t where we want to be.”
Calling an even turnover margin “laughable” after last year’s outlying turnover margin, though, is laughable.
Go 'Dawgs!
i was being agreeable, then.
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/2010/7/9/1557626/no-in-fact-georgias-turnover
i understand that last year was an outlying value (-16), but Doug Gillette is right when he sais ‘No, In Fact, Georgia’s Turnover Margin Actually Can’t Get Any Worse.’
surely nobody expects that our turnover margin will be -16 again, and i (like you) would appreciate if it were higher than 0 (maybe closer to CMR’s median of 4.25?) 0 isn’t laughable if you’re only expecting 4, and i will wait to see how the season progresses before i unbottle my (sad) mirth.
i mean, there is certainly nothing to laugh about these days, anyway.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
ignore that no
i’m not even wading into the waters…
Yes, that is my son. Yes, that is a bottle of Crown.
wait, take that back
the point of the “luck” of the turnovers was that a UGA player made a good play (a near touchdown and a forced fumble) that if not for an unlucky bounce, the momentum does swing or we do get points into our favor.
Yes, that is my son. Yes, that is a bottle of Crown.
It was a very hard hit
And Ealey was clearly dazed after that, when you saw him wobbling in the end zone with his helmet knocked off. But still, you can’t argue with the fact that he has had way too many drops. At this point, I don’t like Thomas’ size if he’s running up the middle, but King can handle that if he gets some blocking. I think Ealey’s days should be over at running back and put him back at 3rd string.
Yes, it wasn't exactly out of character,
for Ealey to take his mind off of where the ball was before he could have been 100% certain the play wasn’t over.
Developing good habits (Finish The Drill!) can help avoid gaffes like that – or like that game-winning touchdown a couple weeks ago in the NFL that was negated, forget who the receiver was – whether or not you’ve just been slobber-knocked.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Biblical. How bout some sacrilege?
Vince Dooley comparisons are silly bc he was average at best. When did he win big with mediocre talent? I’ve seen others do that, I would consider them great.
Should we be patient w CMR until the second coming of #34? ha
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Dawgaddict and Blog Goliard
Dooley was average at best? He beat teams he was not supposed to beat…and when he lost to teams he was supposed to lose to, they had to fight for every damn yard they got! Now, in my lifetime, I’ve never known UGA to have mediocre talent (please, you must give me a reference to that). He coached and beat the BIGGEST named coaches college football has produced (ok, not Knute, but c’mon—you get my drift).
Average…Ray Goff was average (just speaking to his overall numbers). May the CFB gods forgive such blasphemy! (Wink wink—take this all with humor and truth, fellas!)
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
his sub .700 winning record?
i was implying that he NEVER coached average talent.
yet, his winning percentage was average by today’s standards.
the game (and expectations) has changed.
Woody Hayes had a similar winning percentage…and 3 National Titles. and twice as many big10 titles. similar numbers to Tom Osbourne.
Dooley rode Herschel Walker into legendary status, imo.
take away the Herschel years and what do we got?
a great coach wins more than one MNC today and competes annually, no?
Spurrier was great…was. he would be fired from UF if he coached to a similar record that he has at USCe.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
EDIT
disregard the ‘average winning percentage’ references above, please.
.696 or whatever is pretty darn good.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
The game has changed
And one of the fundamental ways it has changed, is in the crowning of the nat’l champs. I feel and felt that the crowning in the old “poll” days were just as much sentiment as anything else…minus the perfect season.
As for riding Hershel into legend status, a lot of “great” coaches did that…that is, rode their particular talent(s) into legend status. Danny Ford, Chuck Noll, Jimmy Johnson to name but a few. Was Dooley different? I think so, his coaching record speaks for itself. He won, even when he didn’t have Hershel. Maybe not the National Title (again, reference first paragraph), but he won. 201-77-10 is not too shabby.
You mentioned Spurrier and how he was great. How so, compared to Dooley? Spurrier has never had an undefeated season, and Dooley didn’t get beat up in bowl games like the ole ball coach. And, like Dooley, he only has 1 national title. How is he great (or was) and Dooley wasn’t? Dooley wasn’t flashy like old Stevie, but his teams were disciplined and fundamentally sound. When you beat a Dooley team, you earned it!
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
A good example of a coach riding a once-in-a-lifetime player to a national title . . .
. . . is Mack Brown at Texas, who won ten games a year but never won a conference title and struggled with a division rival at a neutral site until he got Vince Young.
Go 'Dawgs!
For my part, I didn't say he was just "average at best".
As I noted, he falls in my personal category of “very very good…but still considerably overrated”.
Doesn’t mean he was average.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a fair distinction . . .
. . . and a fair characterization.
“Very very good” and “considerably overrated” are not incompatible with one another. Harvard University may be the best university in the country, yet still be overrated; there is a strong case to be made for the proposition that the Beatles are at once the greatest rock band ever and the most overrated rock band ever.
Go 'Dawgs!
coach up our recruits?
we actually might have already been blessed with #34’s second coming:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=5610466
but we don’t see any talent gains on our top recruits.
somebody tell me when they saw a player that was ESPN 150 turn into something really special at UGA. please. i know recruiting numbers are basically nonsense, and an inexact science, but i seriously don’t know why so many of our players seem to plateau when they land in Athens.
I’m also tired of hearing how CMR is a ‘man of God.’
I pray nightly, go to church every Sunday (Mormon), take the sacrament weekly, and love my neighbor, but that doesn’t mean I can coach football.
if the UGA field-house isn’t CMR’s to keep in order, why are we so impressed with his testimony? if it is his to keep in order, faith without works is dead.
ever since Meyer and Saban came strong in this conference, Richt has gone soft on UA, UT, and UF. I think Richt was excellent when he was coaching against inferior HC’s, but those days are over. a bunch of successful assassins lead teams in the SEC these days. the best coach used to be Fulmer (bc of Manning)…and we all know what happened to CPF (right or wrong)
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
How is turning the other cheek faith without works?
How is being forgiving rather than condemning faith without works? How is looking for the good in the young men he coaches faith without works?
I agree that Mark Richt, like Bobby Bowden before him, needs to run a tighter ship (which yesterday’s swift dismissal suggests he is beginning to do), but to suggest that the basis for his (erroneously) perceived leniency runs contrary to his witness is to miss the point. Besides, it isn’t as though we’ve had the sort of “Free Shoes University”/Dillard’s shoplifting/multiple-player academic scandals the Seminoles encountered; our stuff has tended to be of the underage possession, driving with a suspended license, and emerging from an alley variety.
More to the point, I think Jasper Sanks, Odell Thurman, Michael Lemon, Montez Robinson, Zach Mettenberger, and Demetre Baker, among others, disagree over whether Mark Richt imposes a strict disciplinary standard.
Go 'Dawgs!
Regarding Odell...
I still say Richt and his staff are miracle-workers for keeping Odell eligible and out of the state penitentiary during his time at UGA.
And I take your point, dawgaddict; but I’d still rather have a coach with good values who’s experiencing trouble transmitting them to his players, than a coach with rotten values. (And not just because karma and/or the NCAA usually catch up with you sooner rather than later…though they do…)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i find no fault with either of your statements.
the problem is when values trump winning….no, not that even.
it’s just…when values are used to excuse losing, something is wrong.
especially when i see the ‘values’ side paying no dividends other than ‘program not currently on probation.’ (we still have a bunch of arrests and shady biz)
i mean, almost no programs are on probation, so that achievement is pretty low on my list of accomplishments, even if also high on my list of expectations.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Agree with you completely about the dividends.
It’s a lot easier to take consolation in your programs higher standards when people actually live up to those higher standards.
(P.S. I grew up in Idaho so had lots of LDS friends. You’re not from out West too, are you?)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no, no...
i love the climate and the geography, but i can’t survive among too many Mormons.
lol
i think living and dealing primarily with people of the same faith as yourself tends to disillusion you about the pedestal you put your beliefs on. sadly.
i dislike having to remind myself ‘the gospel is perfect, but that doesn’t mean people are.’
no, i was born in NC and raised in Decatur, GA. Tucker High School.
talk about higher standards, I have 3 brothers that went to BYU and they are suffering as bad as or worse than UGA is this year (Unga, anyone?), so we are all awaiting the inevitable schadenfreude CFB always delivers.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Yeah, the belly of the beast can be a scary place to be...
…even when it’s your own beast. Or maybe especially when it’s your own beast, as you note.
(Please note that my attempt at a cute turn of phrase here is not meant to label anyone’s church as The Beast!)
For my part, I always try to remember that a church is not a club for saints, but a hospital for sinners. (And that applies to church leaders as much as anyone else…as St. John Chrysostom famously said, “the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”)
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I also completely agree...
…with dawgaddict about the problems we seem to have developing talent.
What haunts me as much as anything is the thought that we might have wasted just enough of Stafford’s and Moreno’s talent to miss the best shot this program has had, talent-wise, to claim a MNC and/or Heisman since Herschel went off to play for The Donald & co.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
two skill position 1st-round draftees in our backfield and we couldn’t beat UF.
correction…we COULDN’T SCORE MORE THAN 10 against UF.
and got blacked-out in Stanford Stadium by UA.
with the breaks, if Richt prepared us to get them, we should’ve been in the talk that year.
instead we lose to Tech also.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
i meant we have faith in CMR without works to support it.
somewhat.
i know he’s had on-field success, but specifically i was referring to his ability to keep his house in order and maintain standards. we have faith that he is a good Christian leader bc we see him at church, but the actions of his players show a disregard for simple laws and CMR’s guidance. so is he evaluating player maturity poorly? or leading poorly?
to quote hbtd below, “We are not a thug program, we are an undisciplined program. We don’t do the little things right and they add up to big problems later. On and off field, it is the cummulative effect of little things done wrong.:”
so his house is not in order, and it’s reflected in numerous silly arrests and poor on-field performance. no?
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Odell Thurman?
really? i wasn’t aware he was a model citizen bc of his time in Athens…perhaps he wasn’t arrested in Athens, but let’s not pretend he was a successful product of Richt’s ideal to raise upstanding young men.
i’m not making the suggestion that CMR never disciplines, or even that he is especially lax.
but i do not like to win the Fulmer cup, and then lose 5 games/year.
‘free-shoes university’ at least played for a national title…or two.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Yes, they did . . . with Mark Richt coaching their quarterbacks to Heisman Trophies.
Odell Thurman wasn’t a model citizen, as a result of which Mark Richt subjected him to a zero tolerance policy that led him to be punished severely following an incident in which the police said he was not the one at fault. In fact, the police said that, had they had the leeway to do so, they would have arrested the other person, but, because a zero tolerance policy was in effect, Coach Richt punished him, anyway, because he was where he shouldn’t have been.
Whether Thurman made good choices in Athens or after (and he didn’t) was his decision, but Coach Richt responded to it with meaningful discipline. The “Mark Richt is lax because his players have suspended licenses” meme is tired, silly, and wrong.
Go 'Dawgs!
so we have not one...
but two QB coaches in jobs above their skillset?
again, i’m not suggesting that Richt is lax.
let me be clear…the players are not afraid of CMR.
i just think we may need a robotzombie/cowboypirate-type guy to win 10+ in the SEC these days.
you think we need a lay minister.
don’t you think lay minister should be an additional post to HC?
heck, i’d even stump for you to step in if the staff transitions to ‘boom m/f’er’ Muschamp, himself.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
I understand that reasonable fans may differ over the Mark Richt question, . . .
. . . but let’s keep it within the realm of reality. If you want to argue that the game has passed Coach Richt by, I disagree with that, but it’s a reasonable argument. The idea that Mark Richt is in a job above his skill set is ridiculous. The results from 2002 to 2007 happened.
Beyond that, I don’t presume to put words in your mouth; don’t presume to put words in mine. I never suggested we needed a lay minister, and I give you credit for being intelligent enough to know that I said no such thing.
Go 'Dawgs!
i knew you would dislike that sentence.
i apologize, i read it after posting (second mistake) and knew i should have ended it with a ?. it was still inflammatory and i’m sorry for that, but as Blog Goliard and I have come to consensus (on a few things) above, i hope we can also find common ground on the CMR question.
the opening to my previous post was rhetorical and for comedic effect, but I think the reasoning behind it was valid. that’s why it’s funny, huh?
BVG was a huge part of CMR’s early success, our offense was not the facet of our game consistently in the top 10 nationwide, was it?
the 2007 final-season ranking looks more like a lucky break than a legitimate descriptor. we got blown out by UA in our next real home game, right?
2006 was NOT a good year.
in 2005, losing to WVU in the Sugar Bowl (only one in Atlanta, perhaps ever) was unacceptable. that has happened several times…we come in against an overmatched opponent and choke like a grand-mal victim for the first quarter.
granted the SECC was awesome, and considering UTa and USCw’s dominance of their respective conferences that year we had no shot at a title…but it still sucked to lose that game. by the transitive property, WVU was the SECC…and i can’t think of when else that has happened.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
choke like a grand-mal victim
I do not find this simile amusing or appropriate. It’s in the same league as moron jokes, blind/deaf jokes.
And please dont go down the “lighten up” road. If (and I pray not) you or a family member or friend suffer through this, you wont like the comparrison either.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
too much time on EDSBS. (no excuse)
momentarily forgot this is a different crowd.
apologies.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
I blame Phil Mickelson.
In leaving the gaudy chokinating habit behind him, he deprived us of an obvious sports-related simile that you would surely have gone for instead.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
accepted - /virtual handshake
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
It's fine, dawgaddict.
As I said in a comment above a few minutes ago (before scrolling down to this one), I appreciate the way we’re able to recognize that we’re on the same side and at least try to work toward consensus, even if we all sometimes get a little chippy in the midst of frustration.
Apology accepted. Consider it forgotten. You make some good points, particularly about some of the bad losses, although one of the reasons I trust Mark Richt to make the necessary corrections is that he clearly pulled us out of tailspins in 2006 and 2007. Likewise, I agree that Mark Richt’s best years were when we had Brian VanGorder; put another way, his worst years were when we had Willie Martinez. While other changes need to be made, I believe the biggest one already has been made, and the defense, while a work in progress, is improving and will continue to do so.
By the same transitive property, weren’t we the ACC champs last year? We beat Georgia Tech and South Carolina (who beat the other division champ, Clemson).
I’m pretty sure you’re right about the Sugar Bowl, by the way. If memory serves, the only other major bowl game to be relocated temporarily was the Rose Bowl at the end of the 1941 season. The game was played in Durham, N.C., due to travel restrictions in the wake of Pearl Harbor. (Feel free to double check that; I know I have the gist of it right, but I may have gotten a detail wrong.)
Go 'Dawgs!
Dawgaddict DEFINITELY got right...
…that we need a robot and/or zombie and/or cowboy and/or pirate lay minister for the halftime pep talks. They’d either come out of the locker room 100% motivated or totally freaked out.
by Actual Box of Cornflakes on Sep 27, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it not concern you. . .
That CMR was unable to maintain any of the momentum gained from pulling those teams out of tailspins?
2006 – Team recovers from losing to VU and UK, and things look fairly good going into 2007. But the team immediately reverts back to form losing to Carolina at home and having one of its trademark implosion games against UT.
The bad losses are starting to pileup. I wonder where the optimism that Mark Richt will fix things has its foundation. If he can fix it, why is it taking tll now to do so?
Because the problems were systemic (e.g., Willie Martinez's defense), . . .
. . . and there are no quick fixes.
Do a tag search of this site for “fire Willie Martinez,” and you’ll see that I called for Coach Martinez’s ouster early and often; there is absolutely no question that Mark Richt took too long to make a change, but, now that he has made the change, he deserves time to see it through.
Quick fixes are what George Steinbrenner was looking for every time he hired Billy Martin . . . and fired Billy Martin . . . and hired Billy Martin . . . and fired Billy Martin . . . and . . .
We’re not that kind of program, and we never have been. I, for one, am proud of that fact. I’d rather be where we are now than be where we’d be three seasons into a Dennis Erickson regime.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Sep 27, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're right, but. . .
its beginning to feel like we are simply slow to react rather than obsessed with the quick fix.
This year we’ve been physically dominated at the line of scrimmage by every SEC opponent we’ve played. I don’t think that’s an issue with the defense.
Our coach admitted that we ran some plays “blindly,” simply hoping that they would be successful.
I don’t understand why it takes three to four seasons to find a way to field a fundamentally sound, physical football team. That suggests to me there’s something missing within the program that isn’t being addressed.
Three seasons into a Dennis Erickson regime.
Also known as: “The point where you have to find a replacement for Dennis Erickson. If you’ve been lucky and he’s decided to take his wanderlust pills.”
D’ya suppose he’s back for his fourth season in Tempe because he’s finally gotten stuck in career quicksand with his ways? Or is he getting older and living in Arizona just seems too natural now?
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
(No, I'm not a bitter old Idaho and Oregon State guy...)
Nope nope nope nope nope…
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, since old people from out west go to Arizona to retire...
… guess there’s just one option for moving on from ASU… and it doesn’t look like Dennis is quite ready for that yet.
by vineyarddawg on Sep 28, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
why, exactly, aren't the players afraid of richt?
What facts are you using to back that up?
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Fulmer Cup?
these guys aren’t out robbing people, beating up women, or shooting firearms in public, but they are drinkin, drankin, and drivin a lot. without licenses, etc.
now, college is about some fun, but the coach should be able to lay down some laws, or discourage players from acting as thought they have no sense.
look at Ealey’s arrest.
Tavarres King?
look at Knowshon’s alpha-gamma-delta pics. (haha, i assume the girls were)
look at Stafford’s body of work. (he was one lazily talented pos)
Damon Evans…hey nvm.
we are the #1 party school in America this year (another arbitrary award) and it doesn’t look to me like we have the blue-collar, hard-working players putting team first that we need to win. if they cared about the team, they would stay out of trouble.
the Fulmer Cup win is a perfect example of too many players not giving a crap about the consequences of stupid behavior.
Richt is a team leading, nice-guy, father-figure. he might need to be more like a warden with these guys…or recruit more like BYU. either way, the HC should be leading, and if the players respected him like ya’ll do, they would act right and probably drink less. (or at least, less publicly)
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Thanks.
for all these points, and I was looking for that answer to say —
so what. Same shit happens at UF. A lot of that gets swept under the rug as we’ve seen with all the problems that came to light over the past year that were ‘handled internally’ at the time.
Having a robozombie coach who can win 10+ games doesn’t change this… is my point.
by knowshon loves legos on Sep 27, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
my point is that 10+ wins might excuse some of 'this'
At least for me, it might.
Thug U? Miami was freaking scary so they won a few #1 rankings. And kept them.
saying the same shiz happens at UF is only half-true.
The same stupid kid-stuff, yes.
The 2 MNC’s…not even close.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
by dawgaddict on Sep 27, 2010 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, . . .
. . . Mark Richt’s teams finished No. 3 in 2002 and No. 2 in 2007.
I’d say that’s pretty close.
Go 'Dawgs!
i must respectfully disagree,
in 2007, we didn’t even play for the SEC title…bc we had 2 losses in conference! (USCe and of course UT)
in 2002 we had an opportunity to control our own destiny…Zook took it.
close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and slow dancing.
are you really satisfied that UGA hasn’t won a MNC in 30 years?
do a couple SECC sate your hunger?
i think 10 years is a long time to work a program over… I know CMR isn’t the best-paid coach in the SECe even… but 10 years?
we certainly have the money, the talent, the fans, and the Classic City…do we really have the coach to get us there?
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Close counts in my book.
Not as much as winning an actual MNC, of course…but it counts. Quite a lot, actually.
College football is a quirky sport. A number of teams can get close in a particular year by putting forth their best effort…but which two of them wind up playing for the crystal football depends to a disquieting degree on the whims of the Football Gods.
Or did the 2004 Auburn Tigers also somehow wind up close-but-no-cigar because they didn’t have the coach to get them there? True, there’s enough dumb Aubies out there who seemed to conclude, in effect, that very thing – which is why they wound up grabbing the Wizard of Ames instead, because nothing says “MNC Coach” like going 2-14 in the Big XII – but I like to think Georgia people are a little smarter than that.
I’ve long said that, as great as the can-do/bootstraps/Yankee ingenuity character of America is, sometimes what we really need is a good dose of fatalism to balance it out. Division I-A college football is one of the classrooms where this can be learned…may it forever remain the fluky messy ungovernable shambles it is.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and i would suggest that no barner
is satisfied with that 2004 season and SECC win.
bc close is just not quite close enough.
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
It's not just Mark Richt is lax because his players have suspended license
It’s more than suspended licenses. And often the back story is that he has spoken with these players about what they are supposed to do and they have done the opposite.
We are not a thug program, we are an undisciplined program. We don’t do the little things right and they add up to big problems later. On and off field, it is the cummulative effect of little things done wrong.
by hbtd on Sep 27, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
On and off field, it is the cumulative effect of little things done wrong.
Exactly right.
It’s as if they’ve replaced mat drills with some Bizarro-world opposite of mat drills.
by Blog Goliard on Sep 27, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, this thread is absolutely enlightening!
And exhausting! Great exchanges…I think my brain hurts.
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
Thanks, Inteljumper.
We try . . . and I agree with you. I’m proud to say the conversation has remained remarkably civil and lucid, even with all the passions in play.
Go 'Dawgs!
Your “climb off the ledge” Jeremiad is welcome, Mr. King. There’s a difference between being frustrated with the team and coaches (which many of us are) and believing the head coach must go NOW or even this season.
Despite grumbling from many in ’77 and ’79 (I was around and I remember much bellyaching those years about “Vince Fooley” and “4th and 20, up the middle;” nor, contrary to popular conception, was Erk Russell spared the contempt, esp. after the UK and UVA losses in ’77 and ’79 in Athens), Joel Eaves and Fred Davison stuck with those 2 idiots from Auburn (some never forgot the orange pedigree) and things turned out okay.
My past experience as a Dawg fan tells me that a little more patience with a decent man of strong intelligence and commitment to his players is likely to be rewarded, and I believe it’s important for that signal to be sent. Thanks for doing so!
by Chickasaw on Sep 27, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. With minor caveats. :-)
if CMR recruits another #34 soon, I’ll eat my words. See above.
Herschel Walker made those doubters in 1979 look as foolish as I would feel if we won a MNC next year.
1) I don’t doubt CMR’s intelligence, except when it is superceded by loyalty (too often)
2) commitment to players is best demonstrated by improving them. do recent Dawgs leave Athens better than they came?
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
by dawgaddict on Sep 27, 2010 6:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In other news, also germain to this posting
It is with great disappointment that I make the following announcement.
EricBDawg will not be able to attend the Sacrificial Goat Roast in Athens, GA this upcoming Saturday evening. As much as I would love to attend, my personal economic situation requires that I attend a wedding instead. Why you ask does my attendance at a wedding help my personal economic situation? I get paid to be there to DJ the wedding and the reception. You folks have a wonderful time down there and if you decide to visit Helen or Cleveland, in the next few weeks for Oktoberfest, let me know and we will have a little meet and greet if possible.
The damn fall weddings strike again
What’s wrong with these people? You’ll be missed.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
by RedCrake on Sep 27, 2010 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks!
I don’t know why people can’t understand that weddings during football season are doomed. Personally, I think this single-handedly underscores the reason the divorce rate is high in the US.
I would be interested to see a correlation . . .
. . . between month of marriage and rate of divorce.
We’ll miss you, Eric, but, since we plan on making this an annual event, we hope to see you in 2011!
Go 'Dawgs!
i've skipped roomates weddings too often to count,
living in Atlanta with numerous Tech students/alum.
when i was married, i told my wife that i only expected to never go to fall weddings when UGA was playing in Athens. simple.
that was 4 years ago.
this fall, i’ve been to 2 receptions in September and another is planned for Oct 9.
we may be headed for counseling, bc my feelings aren’t receiving the consideration to which i feel they are entitled. what about my needs?
i’m afraid that i may be in an abusive relationship with UGA as well.
on saturday they literally tried their damnedest to humiliate, undermine, betray, and terrorize the love/hate emotional roller-coaster we ride together every fall.
i need therapy.
when my midwest friends, fans of places i’ve never even heard of, like Notre Dame, Michigan, and Minnesota started texting me condolences and assuring me that they knew what i was experiencing…the bottom fell out.
that’s where i’m at.
Notre Dame and Michigan fans are telling ME how sorry they are for my loss.
for our losses.
when does college football (2011) start?
is Ray Go(o)ff still the head coach there?
Thanks TKK.
I will do my best to be there next year. The earlier we pick a game, the better. That way I can go ahead and set myself as being off that weekend, regardless.
I require at least
2 weeks post Goat Roast before I start planning the 2nd Annual Dawg Sports Sacrificial Goat Roast.
I can bake like a demon.
by podunkdawg on Sep 27, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
T Kyle, are you sure Jeremiah's the right book to apply to our season?
Since you’re a practicing attorney, I can see how you may have a fondness for biblical passages that reference real estate transactions. Still, I fail to see how Georgia — who was one Terrence Edwards drop away from playing for a BCS title and who hauls in top-ten recruiting classes yearly — is comparable to tiny Jerusalem beseiged from all sides by greater foes.
Sure, beating UT in 2001 may have had the glory and rush of Gideon beating an overwhelming Midianite force. Every Knowshon rush against Florida in 2007 may have felt like taking a step with Joshua around Jericho. And losing Shockley in the Arkansas game may have seemed as if our Sampson’s locks had been shorn.
But losing to Missy State is as if David had simply let the puny Amalekites walk off with the women of Ziklag without putting up a fight. Of course, David did no such thing; he GATA’d the Amalekites with a careful game plan, even resorting to a trick play.
In fact, with the resources we have, we shouldn’t be thinking in terms of defending the small capital of the Northern Kingdom. We should be thinking in terms of conquering the Assyrians, Persians, or Egyptians.
Wasn’t there a passage somewhere in the gospels about wasting talent(s)?
by Krautdawg on Sep 28, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
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