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Conference Expansion, the SEC, and the Texas A&M Aggies: Was the 2009 Independence Bowl, Like the 1991 Independence Bowl, a Preview of Conference Clashes to Come?

How hot has the conference expansion talk gotten? Hot enough for Spencer Hall to host a midday live chat, but not so hot that ESPN’s Big 12 and Pac-10 bloggers felt the need to offer weekend updates; in other words, not as hot as a Chick-fil-A spicy chicken sandwich, but still plenty hot enough. The Baylor wild card has made recent reports even more intriguing, particularly since the Pac-10 could have its cake and eat it, too, by taking Baylor and Colorado while removing Oklahoma State from the list of six invitees . . . provided, of course, that the West Coast BCS league is comfortable including the Bears, which I believe is a very big "if."

The possibility that the Cowboys could be the odd man out in the Big 12 South ought to make SEC fans go, "Hmmmm . . ." While the Pokes wouldn’t be the best fit for the league, they wouldn’t be among the worst options, either, for a conference that, however regrettably, needs to look to the west and could do worse than putting more trips to Stillwater on the docket. (For the record, I have eaten at a Chick-fil-A in Stillwater, although one of the Oklahoma State fans with whom I ate referred to it as the "Chick-a-Fil.")

Into this stew of speculation and skullduggery, Poseur has tossed a hand grenade by suggesting that the SEC balk at Texas but bring Texas A&M into the fold. Are the Aggies, rather than the Longhorns, the lynchpin of league expansion? Writes one of SB Nation’s stable of LSU bloggers:

Star-divide

Note that Arkansas and South Carolina, the teams added in the SEC's most recent expansion are not among [the SEC’s six historic] power programs, though in fairness, Arkansas is knocking on the door of the top 20. By any reasonable measure, the SEC's expansion was wildly successful, and I think it's instructive to look at that success before jumping into the next round of expansion. The SEC doesn't need another power program, we need more depth. That means the SEC should be more interested in Texas A&M than Texas.

Both schools can deliver the Texas market. As anyone who has ever met an Aggie can tell you, they are slightly fanatical. They are a better cultural fit in the SEC than Texas, they already have a historic rivalry with LSU (and let's face it, we could use a conference rival), and they actually, you know, WANT to be in the SEC. They have many of the positives of Texas (loads of money, dedicated fanbase, huge media markets in Texas, tradition) with none of the negatives of Texas. While Texas is the prettiest girl at the ball, the Longhorns would be a terrible fit for the SEC.

I’m not necessarily persuaded by that argument, but I find it plausible enough to be worth exploring. My problem, though, is that Poseur has ulterior motives, which (to his credit) he more or less admits up front when he acknowledges:

LSU has always been on the periphery of the conference. A lot of that is geographic, but LSU's traditional rivals have tended to be to the west, not in the east. In its history, LSU has played 199 games against teams from the former SWC (including Arkansas) and 217 games against the teams currently in the SEC East. LSU has played Rice and Texas A&M, respectively, more times than any SEC East team save Florida and Kentucky. Hell, LSU's played A&M more times than they have played Auburn, who wasn't a rival until conference expansion. While the rest of the conference looks east, LSU's traditional rivals are in Mississippi and Texas. Would it kill the SEC to throw us a bone?

The other hidden benefit is that adding A&M and another team would allow the SEC to shift Alabama and Auburn to the East Division. Auburn in particular is a better fit in the Eastern division, but both teams have a majority of their rivals to their east. Expanding west allows the conference to consolidate its eastern powers. The problem here is that without Texas, the SEC West would be a far weaker division, but that's why we could always extend an invitation to Oklahoma as well.

While I agree that Auburn belongs in the SEC East, I cannot square Poseur’s suggestion that we add the Sooners with his recommendation that we add teams in the middle of the conference instead of at the top. Besides, while Lone Star State legislators probably would be comfortable with Texas standing astride the inland division of the Pac-16 and Texas A&M comfortably provided for in the SEC, the Longhorns likely would balk at having to play a nine-game Pac-16 slate plus annual non-conference outings against both the Aggies and the Sooners. Oklahoma joining the SEC without Texas is a non-starter.

Provided we can agree to substitute Oklahoma State in place of Oklahoma for the sake of logical consistency, though, does Poseur believe the Bayou Bengals are being thrown a bone rather than served a steak?

If I were an LSU fan, I’d want Alabama and Auburn moved out of the Western Division, too. Heck, if we’re going to adopt an addition-and-subtraction model, how ‘bout if we add Clemson and Georgia Tech to the SEC East and shift Florida and Tennessee to the SEC West? Looking at the Bulldogs’ won-lost records against those four schools in the last two decades, I have to think that’d be a good trade for the Red and Black, right? Come on, SEC, throw the ‘Dawgs a bone!

That, however, would be problematic for about 87 different reasons, not the least of them being that, since it is not necessary to make such a change, it is necessary not to make such a change. We can honor the reasonable portion of Poseur’s request while growing the brand and preserving balance, both geographically and competitively. Taking Poseur’s position for our starting point, we can simply do this:

Add the Oklahoma St. Cowboys and the Texas A&M Aggies to the SEC West. Add the Clemson Tigers and the Virginia Tech Hokies to the SEC East. Keep the current twelve teams in their present divisions. Those are four programs that make fair degrees of sense in terms of conference strength, cultural compatibility, and market expansion.

Is it a perfect scenario? No, of course not; it has any number of flaws. If we accept Poseur’s reasonable premise as a starting point for discussion, though, it represents about as beneficial an outcome as we are likely to get in an era of emerging sixteen-team superconferences. I’m still not entirely convinced that the first domino is going to fall, but, if it does, this might be the best real-world prospect if it turns out that the Texas Longhorns are in play for other conferences but not for ours.

Go ‘Dawgs!

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I think your last sentence is the key here.

Depsite all of the sound and fury emanating from the upper-midwest and the pacific coast, I still give about a 50% chance of absolutely nothing happening at all (other than Boise State going to the Mountain West, which is a given if nothing else happens).

It’s kind of like the Cuban missile crisis (except much less life-threatening to, you know, the world). There’s a 50% chance the entire college football world could be blown up and transformed overnight into something radically different than where we live today. But, there’s an equally likely chance that everybody will get all worried and excited… and the leaders on both sides will then back down, nothing will change, and the rest of the world will just have to go take a cold shower or start a baby boom or something to get all the excess energy out.

Nobody knows what’s going to happen… even the leaders of the Pac-and-Big 10 themselves, I’ll wager. And the more this drags out, the more I’m getting the vibe that nobody wants to fire the first shot, topple the first domino, throw the first curling stone, or any other war/pseudo-sport metaphor you want to use.

I guess we’ll see, though.

by vineyarddawg on Jun 7, 2010 8:03 PM EDT reply actions  

thats what i've been saying dude

"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker

by tankertoad on Jun 7, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm OK with adding Aggy and Aggy alone...

simply because I think the Longhorns have their heads stuck so far up their own pretentious asses that there’s no way they join the SEC. Ironically, they still think of US as the “Old South” as if they were never a part of it, and they perceive themselves to be academically superior to the rest of us. That’s fine, they can rot. I’ll take Aggy, because Poseur is correct, they have a fanatical fan base that covers a very large media market, and would be a good fit.

That said, I think your suggestion of adding OK State and Aggy is a good one. I’m still not sure that we would even WANT Oklahoma and Texas in the SEC…. think about it… adding those two to the West means Alabama and Auburn move to the East, and we are now stuck in a division where it’s going to be damned near impossible to win. We always talk about how the SEC cannibalizes itself during the regular season, that kind of regular season brutality would only increase exponentially. I mean, by the time you’re done getting through a regular season against Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas…. hell….. you’ll be lucky if you have enough healthy players on the roster to play a NC game.

So I’m OK with adding depth instead of powerhouses. As long as we’re not adding mediocre programs with mediocre fan bases like Georgia Tech in media markets we already own.

by georgiadawg85 on Jun 7, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

How about VT and UVa?

I don’t think it would be politically wise for VT to walk out on the ACC after the state government got them the invite in the first place. I don’t think UVa would have any interest in leaving the ACC, but we might have to offer them as a pair to get the Hokies. The only school excited to see UVa football added to the conference is Vandy, but the two VA schools would likely deliver more new viewers than VT and Clemson.

by GwinnettGamecock on Jun 8, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I may be wrong about this, but my perception is that the dynamic in the Old Dominion . . .

. . . is like the dynamic in the Lone Star State. Just as the Virginia legislature wasn’t willing to let Virginia Tech go down with what then appeared to be the sinking ship of the Big East, the Texas legislature wasn’t willing to let Texas bolt the SWC without making sure Texas A&M had a place to land.

I’m increasingly convinced that, in both cases, it was less about them being a package deal and more about both having a place to fall. Virginia is happy in the ACC and Virginia Tech would be happier in the SEC. No one on either side would squawk, so it would be doable. That’s the impression I get, at any rate.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Jun 8, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW though...

… my impression (admittedly drawn mostly from the views of a few Hokie fans that still poke their heads into Big East-centric online hangouts) is that Virginia Tech is very happy in the ACC. Football’s doing great (they own the ACC), basketball has improved tremendously since they started playing the locals rather than heading up north, and since they’re in an area where the ACC completely dominates the media market, that’s where they really want to be. My guess is both VA schools are almost as attached to the ACC as the four NC schools are.

by drothgery on Jun 8, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

some thoughts
Besides, while Lone Star State legislators probably would be comfortable with texas standing astride the inland division of the Pac-16 and Texas A&M comfortably provided for in the SEC, the longhorns likely would balk at having to play a nine-game Pac-16 slate plus annual non-conference outings against both the Aggies and the Sooners. Oklahoma joining the SEC without texas is a non-starter.

Actually, texas has already intimated that if we join the SEC without them, they will refuse to play us in any sport ever again. That’s right, if we don’t do what they want, they’re taking their ball and going home. So, I am in favor of A&M joining the SEC, and giving texas the finger. I think the dirty little secret of all of this expansion talk is that texas really doesn’t want to leave the Big 12; they want to stay where they are, making more money than anyone else in the conference, and start their own television network. The Pac-10 won’t let them have their own network, but the SEC is willing to be flexible. Of course, texas is so damn pretentious in thinking they are too good for the SEC, so they don’t want to join the one conference that would let them have their cake and eat it, too. So, the SEc can feel free to add A&M and Oklahoma to the conference. OU will be fine as long as they are guaranteed a game in Dallas, TX every year for recruiting purposes; whether that is a conference game against A&M or a non-conference game against texas, it is irrelevant, as long as they have a consistent presence in Texas every year. OU and texas played as non-conference rivals for all the years of the SWC and Big 8, so the continuation of their rivalry as members of the SEC and Pac-16 is not out of the question.

I see no benefit whatsoever to adding Oklahoma State to the SEC; they don’t bring television sets, a national television audience, or a strong football history to the conference. Unless y’all are really into wrestling or golf, I’m not sure why you’d want to add them. As for raiding the ACC for teams, is there a reason y’all wouldn’t go after North Carolina? Butch Davis is building a solid football program, they are a traditional power in basketball, they’re solid in baseball, and they’d give you two top 30 television markets in Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham.

by Beergut on Jun 8, 2010 5:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed...

Bring in the Aggies but not the Cowboys. If we go into Oklahoma it is the Sooners or Bust. OSU just offers so littler poutside of a road trip to the middle of no where. I do not like the Virginia Tech addition either, unless it is leveraged to bring in UVA also.

by jmiketaylor on Jun 8, 2010 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the insights, Beergut.

It’s always good to get the perspective of someone with ties to the state that sits at the epicenter of all this expansion talk.

I think Oklahoma State is the more likely get than Oklahoma, but, if the Sooners would be willing to come, they’d obviously be the preferable option.

I don’t think it’s even worth the trouble to place a phone call to Virginia or one of the North Carolina schools. They bring nothing to the table on the football front, they’d preen and prance about academics, and I’m not really concerned with what they add in basketball. Clemson and Virginia Tech are football-first schools that are culturally compatible with the SEC, and they’d maintain both geographic and competitive balance in the East to offset the additions to the West.

As always, though, others’ mileage may vary. In the end, it’s very likely that this is much ado about not very much, but it’s fun to talk about in the offseason.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Jun 8, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

curious why you feel this way
I think Oklahoma State is the more likely get than Oklahoma, but, if the Sooners would be willing to come, they’d obviously be the preferable option.

 OU is a better cultural fit with the SEC than the Pac-10, and it would guarantee the Stoops brothers wouldn’t be playing each other every year, which is a distinct possibility in the Pac-16 plan. I can see why you’d say OSU would be more likely to jump on the opportunity to come to the SEC, but I don’t see why the SEC would want OSU.

As for Carolina and basketball, I know the SEC is a football-first conference, as is the Big 12, but I don’t see why the SEC can’t be strong in both sports. Y’all don’t have an issue with being strong in baseball, so why not make a move that will also strengthen basketball?

by Beergut on Jun 9, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Oklahoma State is more likely because the SEC more clearly represents an upgrade . . .

. . . for the Cowboys. Also, I believe adding to the league’s depth has worked better in the past than adding to the conference’s topheaviness, and Oklahoma State (like Texas A&M, Clemson, and Virginia Tech) makes the SEC stronger in the middle.

As for North Carolina, I want no part of the Tar Heels. You know how y’all refer to Texas as the “tea sips”? Well, that’s the snooty condescension UNC brings to the table. One reason the Big Ten, the Pac-10, and the SEC work better as conferences than the Big 12, the ACC, and the Big East is that the latter three leagues are forged together from disparate elements and the former three match like with like. The Tar Heels are a bad fit culturally for the SEC.

When I look at North Carolina, I see an overemphasis on basketball, a football program that aspires to eight wins and inspires loyalty only until Midnight Madness, and a team that wears fey blue uniforms. We have that in the SEC already. It’s called Kentucky. We don’t need two of them.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Jun 9, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

As for raiding the ACC for teams, is there a reason y’all wouldn’t go after North Carolina? Butch Davis is building a solid football program, they are a traditional power in basketball, they’re solid in baseball, and they’d give you two top 30 television markets in Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham.

I feel like if the SEC decided to expand, which I don’t particularly see the need and from a South Carolina Fan’s perspective I don’t particularly think is good for us, I think UNC is a good option for the SEC in terms of academics and growing a television footprint. Raleigh-Durham is a growing market and adding UNC would basically cover the whole of the state.

But… I just can not get my head around UNC being OK with scheduling Duke, NC State, or Wake Forest as out of conference football, and more notably, basketball games.

South Carolina Football had been detrimental to both my liver and law school grades.

by Le Coq Sportif on Jun 8, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

well then,

you guys just come right on over to the SEC where you can join another one of Texas’ old rivals (Arkansas), and then we’ll all just sit back and laugh while Texas makes six 3,000 mi. trips a year to play their in-conference “rivals.”

by georgiadawg85 on Jun 8, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the link, Kyle

I think your criticisms are fair, and you are completely correct, I was trying to write from the perspective of what is best for LSU. While the rest of the conference looks east, LSU looks west. I’m not saying LSU is looking to bolt the SEC in any scenario, but we would like a Texas rival to make us feel more at home in the conference we helped found. I would add that in the comments I suggest adding Virginia Tech along with A&M, which would preserve Bama in the West while sending Auburn to the East. I’m not trying to make the West an easy division.

Since I don’t expect everyone to read the link, I will point out that my biggest concern is that Texas is not to be trusted. UT has now been at the epicenter of two different conference implosions. The reason that conferences are trying to poach the Big 12 is the seething resentment some schools have towards the inequitable arrangement favorable to Texas. Nebraska wants to preserve its traditions, which is admirable, but their traditional rivalry with OU has already been a major casualty. What they really want is a time machine.

The SEC works because all schools are treated like equal partners. (Almost) Every school has an impressive football tradition and there is a sense of togetherness. The SEC schools may be ferocious rivals, but we are first and foremost partners. It’s why we chant “SEC!”. Texas has never shown any ability or desire to be an equal partner with anybody. Having them in your conference is toxic. We want an equal partner, not an athletic department constantly figuring out a way to squeeze more money out of us.

I simply do not trust Texas. I don’t want them as partner, for we’d spend our entire partnership waiting for them to stab us in the back.

Fake Pundit. Real Fan.
http://www.andthevalleyshook.com

by Poseur on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Good points about Texas Poseur

And I pretty much agree with your plan, though swapping OU for OSU makes since as well…

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

by SouthernMan on Jun 9, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification, Poseur.

As always, you make good points and generate quality discussion. Much obliged.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Jun 9, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

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