The rivalry between Georgia and Tennessee...
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 1, 2010 7:06 AM EDT
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As this is done in contrast to the rivalry with Clemson, I must concede the lack of historical regularity. We have played our neighbors slightly to the northeast much more than we have our neighbors to the north. But while the rivalry with Clemson has been significantly more lopsided, outside of a run from 1900-1906, and during the 1980s Georgia has dominated "Auburn with a Lake", where no others losses outside of the aforementioned years haven't been bracketed by multiple consecutive wins both before and after. But you have already been given a wonderful synopsis of strengths and weaknesses.
So without further ado, I'll lay out my case for hating that other batch of ugly orange...
In spite of significantly fewer attempts, the Volunteers actually have more victories over the Dawgs than do the Tigers, plus they have a winning overall record in the series (15-20-2 vs. 41-17-4). Losing breeds a different level of hate than overall dominance and raising a lower school's profile because you consider them on your level. Our rivalry with the Volunteers has been a series of runs as the pdf link above shows--Tennessee won 3 of the first 5, with one tie prior to 1910, before Georgia ran off 5 straight between 1910 and 1924, then the Vols had 0 losses and 6 wins over 7 games from '24 to '72, followed by a 4-0 streak by the Dawgs in '73, '80, '81, and '88 and a painful 9-0 run by Rocky Top between '89 and '99. The past decade has been a bit less lopsided between the two teams (6-4 for the good guys), but still somewhat streaky--we won the first 4 from 2000-2003, we traded road wins in '04 and '05, traded home wins the last two seasons, and Tennesse had a 2 game run in the middle ('06 and '07).
The recent years have also seen the two programs fighting for championships on a regular basis. Tennessee has represented the SEC East in Atlanta 5 times since 1997, while Georgia has gone 3 times between 2002 and 2005 (meaning every time we've made the SEC Championship game, we beat the Volunteers earlier in the season). For Tennessee, 4 of their 5 SEC Championship game appearances followed a win over the Bulldawgs ('97, '98, '04, and '07, but not '01). In the disturbed 2001 football season, a Georgia loss was all Tennessee had going into their season ending game vs.a then #2 Florida (postponed due to 9/11), which they won, becoming #2 before losing to LSU and costing them a chance to play Miami for a national title. Suffice it to say, the winning team has a much better chance of winning the SEC East, SEC as a whole, and ultimately the national title, and the road to Atlanta is pretty much impossible for the loser considering yearly games with Florida and Auburn (for us) or Alabama (for them). It is a make or break game for both teams every single season and has been since we reemerged as legitimate SEC title contenders. Having that level of importance on a game, from both sides, has spurred the increased hatred of this rivalry.
As just said, the Tennessee/Georgia game has been a pivotal point in several recent seasons. How does 1995 turn out if Robert Edwards doesn't get injured, and could a healthy #47 have ultimately extended the tenure of Ray Goff? 1997 saw Georgia go 10-2, beating Florida and finishing in the top 10 but losing to the Vols 38-13. Meanwhile Tennessee won the SEC and faced co-national champion Nebraska in the Orange Bowl ranked #3 before going on to a national title the following season. Does Jim Donnan's path change if we win Jamal Lewis' breakout game, or if Lewis is having that breakout game wearing Red and Black? What happens to Phillip Fulmer if Richt doesn't come in and dominate their early matchups? Does the Fat Man begin to falter without our rise to prominence? Or what about Willie Martinez if David Cutcliffe didn't carve him up like a Thanksgiving turkey? And let us not forget 2007. Does a red hot Dawgs team upend LSU (who played very poorly in the SEC Championship game vs. Tennessee) and ultimately win a national title instead of finishing #2 without that humiliation in Knoxville? Do we even go on that magical run with Stafford and Moreno without the desire for redemption from said humiliation?
In addition to the aforementioned Lewis and Edwards, games between the Vols and Bulldogs have seen the breakout performances of Herschel Walker and David Greene for us, while QBs Peyton Manning, Jonathon Crompton, and Erik Ainge had their first big games vs. Georgia. What names from Clemson can inspire the immediate raw hatred or anger (or both) in you that Manning, Crompton, Ainge, and Clausen can? Did we ever tear down the goalposts in relief after beating Clemson, like we did against Tennessee in 2000? Clemson has it's share of great calls (Kevin Butler's FG among them), but does it have a "Hobnail Boot" or "my God a freshman"? Does Clemson have the anger that can come from taking your own and beating you with them, like Chuck Smith, or Lewis, Cosey Coleman and Deon Grant, or Eric Berry? Have they ever had some of Athens' own on their coaching staff, like aforementioned current DL coach Smith, or head coach Derek Dooley? One must admit, the rivalry with Tennessee has begun to develop a level of hatred, from both sides and for both the team as a whole and numerous individuals (Kelly "The Future" Washington? The Clausen family? Even the neverending line of kicking Colquitts?); a hatred that just does not exist after demolishing Clemson 30-0 in their house in 2003 and seeing them flounder under Tommy Bowden and now Dabo Swinney like a weak sister. As said above, Clemson is not, and other than a run in the early 80s, has not been on our level as a program. They consider South Carolina a rival, as well as Tobacco Road schools. Tennessee has Bama, Florida like we have Auburn and Florida, and are on a level historically that is much more consistent and compatible with ours than the Tigers.
While this rivalry may lack the proximity and much of the history that Clemson does prior to 1992, the amount of critical moments for both programs, some in the past but mostly in recent years, make Tennessee quite the rivalry. It is and has been for much of recent history, and likely to remain so for much of the near future, a pivotal game deciding the fate of our season as well as theirs, and in many respects has grown into a heated and extremely important game/rivalry. In conclusion, since "pictures are worth 1000 words", and for brevity's sake, I'll conclude my argument with the following.
via georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu
via i.ytimg.com
(tell me the following picture doesn't make you smile every time)
via media.scout.com
Or see the reaction of one of Athens' own on a big play....
In a game that ultimately ended with this moment of awesomeness....
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Well said
Your post is right on what I believe to be important about the GA/UT rivalry. 2004 and 2007 were just awful years playing against them, and HAD WE beaten them in both years, we would most likely had played for the SEC championship game. Somehow, we beat Florida both years too.
In further analysis, the problem about ‘04, ’07, and ’09 was that our offenses were pitiful against UT’s defense. No running game, no motivation, no urgency to dominate by the Bulldogs. We can talk all we want about the defense being pitiful, and yes, the last few years, we’ve seen UGA’s defense being walked on. But, if the team gets inefficient on offense, there’s nothing you can do to win the game. 2 touchdowns will not cut it by playing UT and no touchdowns against UT in 2009 is just plain unacceptable.
I meant offensive touchdowns in 2009. Of course, we scored a few on special teams
by thefirstgenesis on Jun 1, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you can add this to your argument
You care so little about Clemson that your facts aren’t even straight. I guess that helps your argument.
The game you’re referencing was in 2003, not 2001, and the final was 30-0. That game was close until the last few minutes. Before that it was basically one long pass play followed by the Billy Bennett Field Goal Extravaganza And Country Jamboree.
Our periods of historic dominance coincide almost exactly, with the notable exception of this past decade. The talk of Dabo floundering is really rich when he did more in one year than Bowden did in ten. It’s not like UGA set the world on fire last year.
For the record, we have no significant rivalries with anyone on Tobacco Road. We have dominated all four of those schools historically, as well as South Carolina. You consider us beneath Florida and Auburn historically, when Florida hadn’t even done ANYTHING of note historically until the 90s. Auburn didn’t not fare much better historically until Pat Dye showed up on the Plains.
Duly noted and corrections made...
and yes, considering my educational background (degrees from schools in Athens and Columbia), I do not care much for Clemson at all. That said, I spent the majority of time looking into the rivalry with UT and didn’t double check on specifics in that game.
But you are mistaken in thinking it was close. Georgia dominated on the ground, held Clemson under 200 yards total with only one drive in the second half that wasn’t 3 and out. The score is reflective of the game, where it was never in doubt.
http://www.georgiadogs.com/fls/8800/stats/football/2003/ug01.htm
And I’ll consider Dabo as better than Tommy when he actually wins more than 9 games. Until then, you still lack a championship caliber coach and can enjoy 3-4 losses every year (in the ACC). That’s pretty much been the program’s m.o. since a cheating Ford left, as Hatfield and West weren’t bad, but weren’t good either.
Your team hasn’t been to a major bowl since the national championship, and other than that, not since 1959. I know Clemson fans think mighty highly of themselves, but your track record does not support such lofty thoughts. Nice run under Frank Howard, and then when Danny Ford was cheating like crazy, otherwise, and most certainly in modern incarnations, it’s just a mediocre program with mediocre results. And yes, other than at the turn of the century and in the 80s, Georgia has thoroughly owned that “rivalry” which is even more lopsided than your rivalry with South Carolina (Georgia has won over 66% of games vs. Clemson, and removing the years mentioned in the article makes it get a LOT uglier, while Clemson has beaten the Gamecocks in a mere 60% of the time). As I said above, the only reason Clemson fans want this rivalry so bad is because it makes them feel like they belong on our level, which is clearly not the case.
Yipes!
That comment could be interpreted as evidence for elevating the rivalry with Clemson.
by NCT on Jun 1, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How so?...
Clemson/SC is a rival because of being the two state schools, not because they are comparable programs or evenly matched.
Tennessee and Georgia do seem like evenly matched, comparable programs. While Clemson is mired in mediocrity, and has historically been about as easy a W for us as a directional school take away 1900-1906, and the record is 41-10-2 (meaning we win almost 75% of the time, 74.54545454…%). Take out those 7 years, and the actually competitive stretch between 77 and 90 (and we can all admit Charley Pell and Danny Ford were up to some shenanigans during those years) and the record is 31-4-3. 4 wins in almost 40 attempts is pretty pitiful and makes for Georgia winning more than 80% of the time. That’s not a rivalry, and that’s not competitive.
I’ve said it enough now, why not once more. Unlike Tennessee, Clemson is just not capable of playing at our level. They might be close, and we’ve played them a lot over the last 100 years, but going by the records, it looks like they have been little more than our early season, get the kinks out, whipping boy ala Lousiana Monroe, Central Michigan, New Mexico St or Georgia Southern.
Oh, that's hilarious.
Georgia is the most upstanding program in the SEC because TKK and Mr. Sanchez say so. Give me a break. Don’t pretend Dooley had clean hands either.
You’ve had two whole impressive runs in the last 30 years, and we’re not on your level? Please.
The only thing you’ve succeeded at proving is that you have far more vitriol for Clemson than you do for Tennessee.
by OrangeBritches on Jun 1, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Which isn't true...
as said above, no one on Clemson’s roster can come close to the immediate and raw hatred that comes from invoking Clausen, or Jabari Davis, or any of a number of Tennessee players. And while we have had our share of sanctions, the fact remains, and you can see for yourself above, that other than under Pell and Ford, and in the Oughts of the 1900s, Clemson has been little more than Georgia’s whipping boy to work out early season kinks. Facts is facts whether you care to admit them or not. If it weren’t for proximity causing a frequent playing partner before the modern era of college football (and I’d say that the changes in 1992 set off a change in the overall landscape of college football and college football scheduling), your team wouldn’t even be up for discussion. I’m honestly shocked at how un-competitive the games have been over the years. I knew y’all were a mediocre team now, but the complete futility of Clemson historically against Georgia is pitiful.
You truly think hatred for Clemson can compare to Tennessee...
I honestly can’t even think of a Clemson player that deserves much hate from us. Let alone anyone on the level of the entire Clausen family, Kelly “The Future” Washington, Jail-mall Lewis or Jabroni “Peach Bowl” Davis. Bring up the names Lane Kiffin and Phil Fulmer around the Peach State, and see what reaction you get from people, now try that again with Tommy Bowden and Dabo Swinney. That you would even try to compare the vitriol with Tennessee to your own program is laughable. And to be blunt, most of my dislike of Clemson comes from time spent attending the University of South Carolina. Cause I can promise you, Georgia fans who aren’t over 35 barely even remember your existence.
Haha
Truth comes out! Can spot a Gamecock from a mile away.
by OrangeBritches on Jun 2, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
As can I a Clemson or UT fan...
the fact that both wear have a strong tendency to always have at least one item of clothing in the color orange kind of makes them stand out.
It still doesn’t change the fact that Clemson’s program as a whole has much less success than does Georgia or Tennessee, has routinely taken a beating at the hands of Georiga aside from two relatively short time periods (one of which involved a high degree of shenanigans, although we also had unclean hands at the same time frame), and as of now is a mediocre program that struggles to win 10 games in a weak ACC.
And as I told many upon my move, 25 > 3 (years lived in Athens vs. Columbia). I’m a born and bred Dawg sir, and nothing will ever overcome that fact.
Well, Georgia's rivalry with Clemson...
… has always, in my mind at least, been analogous to the rivalry with Auburn (at least, aside from Kyle’s unfiltered hatred for Auburn. Kyle hates Auburn.). It is a brotherly rivalry… a relatively friendly rivalry. It can be no less heated or no less hard-fought at times than other rivalries… but at the end of the day, we still respect and like each other.
Attempting to belittle a rival’s position merely reveals a deeper-seated hatred for one’s opponent. Acknowledging their position is a much more reasoned stance, in my opinion. Do kids born since 1992 not remember Clemson as a rival of the Georgia Bulldogs? Probably not. Does that mean that Clemson and Georgia are not rivals? Absolutely not.
I acknowledge them as a rival...
just below the obvious Tech, Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee in current status. Given conference affiliation and routine playing, South Carolina is slowly crawling up to their status, and apart from a complete lack of championship contention in their past and a 10+ year run of intense, back and forth competition, might be a fair comparison for football in that overall both play us uncomfortably close, but lose a whole lot more frequently than they win.
As for my overall thoughts on the Clemson program, you may describe it as an “attempt to belittle”, others just call it bein truthful. They are, at least in current form, mediocre. See the regimes of Hatfield, West, Bowden, Purnell, Shyatt, etc. Leggett has a pretty good baseball team though. I think the end run from 77-90 skews perspective on the series as a whole, and Clemson’s status as an overall program.
That last video - I still remember that game -
Larry was simply amazing. Sometimes I think he knew we would win something we shouldnt. He has a line “the sun is shining down” – he is writing poetry.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
The whole sequence brought a tear to my eye...
honestly. It was a great, great moment, especially after the deflation of Stephens screen.
That was a game
that Ray Goff or Jim Donnan would have never won. And despite our recent malaise, it still affirms to me that Richt is the right man for the job then, now, and in the future.
And if we don’t beat UT by a couple of touchdowns this year, then there is something really wrong and you can forget about everything I said in the first paragraph.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
I'm 22...
…and had no clue how Clemson fans really disliked UGA until this past year. Ended up with a roommate at UGA from Franklin Co who was a big Clemson fan, but really more of a UGA hater. He was O-B-S-E-S-S-E-D, so naturally I did some research and checked out some stats. WTF when in the hell was this ever a rivalry? I didn’t even know Clemson had a football team until I went to Death Valley and watched us maul them in ’03.
I'm in the same boat...
As a newly minted alumnus of the great University of Georgia, I can say that there as any vitriol for Clemson for fans of my vintage is almost nonexistent. We realize that UGA and Clemson had some hard-fought games in the 1980s, but its difficult to consider it a rivalry since they haven’t been an annual opponent for most of our lives. My most enduring memory of our series with Clemson was when UGA trounced them 30-0 in 2003.
Tennessee is a different story entirely. I remember where I was and everyone who was in the room when Greene threw the pass to Haynes. Some of the guys I played football with played “Rocky Top” in the lockerroom the Monday after our loss to UT in 2004 just to get a rise out of me (they succeeded), and my girlfriend broke up with me the same week as our loss to the Vols in 2007. Her friends said she thought it would be the best time to give me the news, because she knew I would be totally numb to everything after the Dawgs lost that game.
I guess my point is that the increasing rarity of our series with Clemson coupled with the number of times our fate has been determined by the outcome of our annual meeting with Vols means that UT is currently a bigger rival to our beloved Bulldogs.
Sic 'em Dawgs
by ClassicCityDawg on Jun 1, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Clemson Rivalry
The best thing about those games is that it got the IPTAY Nation to shut up for a year. Clemson fans are as annoying as any fan, anywhere. I’ve met saner Notre Dame fans. Nicer , too.
They aren’t even a player in the ACC. Yet, they think they can compete with us. I’m sorry, that’s not how things work in the real world.
I hope we see some serious realignment in CFB Conferences and Clemson winds up in the SEC East. At least then Vandy knows they aren’t going winless.
I do miss the games with Clemson, though. They were always a lot of fun. Easy early season cupcakes wins are always fun. Especially when the other team actually thinks it might have a chance to win. I find that entertaining.
I can’t wait for the upcoming games in 2013-14. Gonna be fun. I’ve heard loses in Death Valley are especially tough on the natives.
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