Todd Grantham, Chas Henry, and the Controversy at the End of the Georgia-Florida Game
by T Kyle King on Nov 2, 2010 5:15 PM EDT
in Football
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PrintAll right, I still just wanted to lie around, feel sick, and mope for a few more days, but, like Al Pacino in "The Godfather, Part III," I’ve been pulled back in by circumstances. I am speaking, of course, of Todd Grantham’s "choke" gesture, which some quarters of the blogosphere deem to be the thing that will knock me off of my supposed "high horse."
In overtime, while looking onto the field at Chas Henry, Todd Grantham made a choking gesture. A Gainesville Sun reporter who reviewed the film of the incident states that Coach Grantham said, "You’re gonna [bleepin’] choke. You’re gonna choke." Henry confirmed afterward that such a statement had come from a Georgia coach. Coach Grantham was not, as some suggested, giving a signal to his players.
While I appreciate Year2’s measured take from the preceding link, and while I recognize the reasonableness of Senator Blutarsky’s point that such things happen in the heat of the moment (a reality of which we cannot be overly critical, since we wanted a fiery defensive coordinator), I have to agree with Jeff Schultz, his over-the-top Woody Hayes comparison notwithstanding:
Now, it would be understandable if Grantham thought, "Choke!" or "Miss it!" in his head. It wouldn’t even be surprising a Georgia player yelled, "Choke!" or grabbed his neck.
But for a 44-year-old college coach to be grabbing his neck when a 21-year-old is lining up for a field goal? That would be a bit much.
It was a bit much, particularly since it was directed at the field and accompanied by words directed at the player: Coach Grantham said, "You’re gonna choke"; he didn’t say, "He’s gonna choke." He was speaking to Chas Henry, and Chas Henry heard him. That’s unsportsmanlike and inappropriate.
Yes, I know Todd Grantham is a fiery guy, and I like that about him, but self-control is the essence of discipline, and personal foul penalties (particularly in Jacksonville) have been a problem for the Georgia Bulldogs for a while now. Part of Coach Grantham’s job is to teach his charges managed aggression; in order to do that job effectively, he has to be able to control himself at least as well as he expects his players to control themselves. Erk Russell was as fiery a coach as we have ever had, and he used language with his players that would have caused blushes below deck on a troop ship, but I am not aware of any instance in which he directed profanity and demeaning gestures to an opposing player. The line may be a fine one, but there is a line, and Coach Grantham crossed it.
Seth Emerson makes the interesting point that this may be a carryover from Coach Grantham’s lengthy stint in the NFL. That would make sense, as this sort of thing would be a bit more understandable (albeit equally ill-mannered) between grown men and professionals. However, as Seth also notes, Pete Carroll’s use of a "choke" gesture at the next level was deemed "a breach of etiquette." Coach Carroll subsequently apologized to the kicker in question, and Coach Grantham should, as well. (By the way, in both instances, the kicker in question booted the game-winning field goal, so this isn’t just bad form, it’s bad mojo.)
Some commenters have noted, and it bears emphasizing, that, in the context of sports, "choke" has a specific and non-violent meaning; it is a "man enough" jab meant to imply that the player will not come through in the clutch. That fact is important to note, because a coach directing a "choke" gesture is being rude, but not doing anything threatening. It’s not like he sent Henry a text message saying, "Time to die."
Moreover, the ill-advised words and gestures made by Todd Grantham in the heat of battle were more than offset by Urban Meyer’s postgame directing of the Gator chomp to the Georgia fans. However bad an idea it is for a coach to smart off to an opposing player during the game, that at least has the virtue of occurring in the arena between enemy combatants; what Coach Meyer did cannot be defended by either excuse, as it took place after the game and was directed at the fans. Since a fish rots from the head down, we should not wonder why so many Florida fans seem to take greater pleasure in kicking Georgia fans while we’re down than in celebrating their victory with one another.
Nevertheless, it is no justification for us to assert that our coaches are less badly behaved than theirs; certainly, we hold representatives of the University of Georgia to a higher standard than merely being able to assert, "At least they act better than Gators!" The bottom line is that, if a player would be flagged for doing it on the field of play during the game, a coach shouldn’t do it on the sideline, either, and we all know that, if a Georgia player had done what Coach Grantham did or a Florida player had done what Coach Meyer did, a fifteen-yard penalty would have followed.
Like podunkdawg, I am not ashamed, but I am embarrassed. It was unsportsmanlike, and he should have known better. Todd Grantham does not owe me an apology, but he owes one to Chas Henry.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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Inappropriate?
Yes.
I’d play for the man. Right or wrong (and it’s wrong ;-), it sure is a little bit different than two thumbs up.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
I sat up this morning after work watching that video at least 2 dozen times...
and I’m still chewing on it. I read all the comments on Podunkdawg’s post and each side of the debate carries merit.
However, if we, the fanbase, can conclude without debate, that CMR is a stand-up guy who tries to exemplify gamemanship, then I have to say this debate is moot. CMR obviously had to hear CTG jawing back to the field (Master Henry). If he would have found it tasteless, I imagine we would have seen some reaction from him. But we see none.
Without me being there, and witnessing the event with my own senses, I have to defer judgement to those who were there, and who I trust in their judgement. A video snapshot is not an all-inclusive encapsulation of this event.
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
Torn
I don’t know what I think about this. Is there really any substantive difference between making a choke sign (as Kyle pointed out, a clearly non-violent signal) and calling a timeout to “ice” the kicker? In both instances you’re essentially saying this: “I believe your head will interfere with your body’s ability to execute an act that should be routine.”
Further, can we really fault a man for making a symbol for something we were all thinking? I feel for any college kid that makes a mistake on a routine play but that sure as heck doesn’t mean I was hoping this kid would make this field goal. I was hoping he’d miss — I was hoping he’d choke. Sure, I’d have preferred a block, but absent that, I was hoping for a miss. I expect many, if not most Georgia fans were thinking the same thing. I was thinking exactly what Coach Grantham was thinking (and communicating!).
Finally, while I appreciate the suggestion that making a choke sign at the NFL level to a kicker is somewhat different than at the college level — the players are, after all, paid professionals — I don’t believe the difference is substantial. At both levels, players benefit from success and suffer through failure. You kick a game winning field goal, you’re the hero, you miss it, you’re the goat. You get the glory, but that comes with knowing the ramifications of missing. It’s what you signed up for as a kicker. I suspect if a kicker’s ability to kick a ball through the uprights is affected by someone making a choke sign, that kicker wouldn’t have kept their job in highschool, much less in the SEC.
Should he have dropped the F-bomb? Probably not. Should he have made the choke sign? Meh. Dumbest. Controversy. Ever.
At no point in the above
did you mention the real issue, to the minor extent that this is an issue, which is that the coach spoke to an opposing player. It doesn’t matter whether you in the stands or at home, or Grantham on the sideline, WANTED the kicker to miss the FG. When Grantham injected himself, rather than playcalling or strategy like calling a TO, into the situation, he crossed a line, like Kyle said. But it’s not the most significant line in the world.
SInce when is speaking to another player crossing a line?
I love it when I see a coach yell at an opposing player. I can think of Mike Smith yelling at D’Angelo Hall after a late hit (I know, an NFL reference, but still). I liked that Smitty stood with his players against another player and had no problem that he got in D. Hall’s face, despite the fact that that incident was a controversy in and of itself. I think it gained some players respect and showed he cares about what’s going on as much as they do.
Now, that’s not to say this is the best scenario to do it, but I have virtually no problem with a coach getting a little too passionate. It’s what everyone on this blog complains about with respect to Richt — a lack of fire, sometimes the look of a lack of passion. It’s what we wanted in a defensive coordinator. Or, at least it’s what I thought we wanted.
by WindyCityDawg on Nov 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I should clarify
I think Mike Smith’s actions are more appropriate than were Grantham’s, mainly because it was responding to the actions of another player, rather than outright informing the player you hope they fail. Still, I’ve never heard of this notion that simply talking to another player crosses some line of decorum in hate-week rivalry.
by WindyCityDawg on Nov 2, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Right or wrong, he WAS responding to the player's actions
And I’m sure in hindsight he realizes it was wrong. But, I don’t see that he owes Henry a personal apology after Henry was the one seen to be initiating the conversation with the UGA bench.
I couldn't care less...
I feel that the whole story is a bit overblown. While I am not a coach or representative of the University, I was saying all kinds of horrible things at my TV screen.
I couldn’t care less if they are young. If you’re old enough to drink; you’re old enough to be taunted. Since when did 21-year old men become children?
If this was High School, then I would take issue, but Henry is an adult; Grantham is an adult. They are playing an aggressive sport, not chess or golf. One adult at the end of a hard-fought, stressful, frustrating game, made a harmless choke sign to a man kicking a FG. I just don’t see the problem.
And as far as the players taunting and Grantham needing to set examples, once again, this is football. The only reason I don’t like showboating is because taunts draw penalties, not because I feel sorry for the opposing player or think dancing around is inherently evil. Do people really think Henry gives a flying flip?
If anything, like you said, it gives him pleasure. Thats why I don’t like it. It shows our frustration. It shows that they are under our skin. I don’t like that. But the gesture itself is harmless, in my opinion.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Grantham
should call up Foley [GS reporter] and tell him to have a Coke & a Smile and shut the F up.
something happened to the Gator fanbase if something that harmless during a football game is insulting.
You sold me...queer giraffes.
by Bourbon_Meyer on Nov 2, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest (and I don't like characterizing parts of our fanbase in this way....but its true)
It sounds like something you might hear folks on The Vent or the AJC say after a loss. He made the FG. Florida won the game. Henry was the victor in that particular battle… which is ultimately the most important thing.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
To clarify....
Not what you’re saying…. but the notion that its a big deal. Wasn’t sure if I might have been ambiguous on that… As I said below OTC meds and all that.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
which makes it even more retarded
that anyone from the UF camp is complaining.
I’m done with everything if they start handing out “participation” trophies to the loser of each game.
You sold me...queer giraffes.
by Bourbon_Meyer on Nov 3, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Heard and seen enough today
to float a battleship. I fully suspect that
CTG discovered a possible lightness
in his wallet region, and also found that
a lot of his rare “time off” might be spent
in the dreaded “sensitivity training”. This,
my friends, is the capper to a season where
football took a back seat to everything else.
Enough!
by please before I die, Falcons on Nov 2, 2010 6:35 PM EDT reply actions
I don't care.
I hate Florida and want to beat them badly. Grantham feels the same way. Carry on.
SEC Pigskin Podcast with Barney Able and Dorsey Hill
http://www.secpigskinpodcast.com/
Okay, who knows how I would feel if this was Urban Meyer telling Blair to choke
but honestly I just don’t care. Maybe it’s the melancholy feeling of nothingness I feel towards the Georgia Bulldogs right now, or maybe I’m just being reasonable.
I really don’t think I would’ve cared if a Gator coach NOT named Meyer did it as we were kicking the game-winning FG, so I don’t care either way that Grantham did it.
I just wanna say “Whatever” in my best 16-year old girl impression. That’s how I feel nowadays.
While it some may find it unappealing,
This is not particularly surprising for a coach with a fiery personality and an extended career in the NFL… or one that coached under Nick Saban for that matter.
This is the type of issue we will see more of if we jettison Mark Richt in favor of a more intense HC. Not that they will necessarily be making choking gestures, but they will be less likely to handle situations with CMR’s trademark sense of calmness and would in all likelihood be more apt to commit gaffes in game situations and/or dealing with the press. This is part of the equation when a team decides to hire a coach with an Urban “You’re a Bad Guy” Meyer or Nick Saban mentality (which a portion of our fanbase seems to favor at this time) – Will Muschamp’s Boom MF’er is an appropriate example for fans that wanted to go that direction… until recently at least.
I’m not interested in determining which is the appropriate path (for now), but if we decide to head in that direction, the fanbase needs to prepare itself for more articles like those coming from Schultz, et.al. (as if it wasn’t already easy to hate Jeff Schultz). Right or wrong, win or lose, that ispart the trade off.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
"What's *your* deal?"
I am not drunk, just overserved
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Nov 2, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It could just be because I'm sick and doped up on over the counter flu medicine....
But could you specify or explain what you mean? I’m not putting two and two together.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
It's a reference to Pete Carroll's and Jim Harbaugh's postgame exchange.
Coach Harbaugh has been mentioned as a possible replacement for Mark Richt, and, given that exchange and some other comments he has made, it is likely that Coach Harbaugh would be the sort of coach you are describing.
Of course, my over-the-counter cold medicine from this morning has worn off, and I haven’t yet taken my evening medication, so I could be way off base, too.
Go 'Dawgs!
Why was it necessary to mention what Meyer did?
Nevertheless, it is no justification for us to assert that our coaches are less badly behaved than theirs; certainly, we hold representatives of the University of Georgia to a higher standard than merely being able to assert, “At least they act better than Gators!”
If that’s true, why even mention it in the first place?
Leaving insightful football commentary and analysis to other people since 2006.
or Rainey for that matter?
I just hope we can all teach our children a valuable lesson about sportsmanship, after watching coach Grantham scream “you’re going fuc**in choke” at Henry.
I think he was just trying to address folks that were using that as justification
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
I mentioned it because Alligator Army specifically cited this incident when taking a personal shot . . .
. . . at me, so context was warranted. Likewise, I mentioned Chris Rainey because it was important to note what “choke” did and did not mean, and to illustrate a distinction Alligator Army either did not appreciate or deliberately omitted when attempting to equate the two. I think Todd Grantham did something wrong, but there are different degrees of wrongdoing, which deserved to be noted. A reaction is warranted, but an overreaction is not.
Cardsfan25, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were being sincere instead of sarcastic, but, as a matter of fact, I use both positive and negative examples of sportsmanship from both the Bulldogs and their opponents to illustrate proper behavior for my children on a regular basis. I’m sorry if you mistook my previous comment on parenting as a shot at other people’s parenting, but I explained earlier that your interpretation was mistaken. If your comment was designed to mock the manner in which I conduct myself as a father, the welcome mat is going to be withdrawn rather rapidly.
Go 'Dawgs!
my issue
is that you’ve yet to actually put up a post since the WLOCP, that doesn’t take some kind of shot at Florida. Seriously, go back and look…You sit here, and you question why the other side isn’t just celebrating with each other, as you simultaneously throw out insult after insult at their program and then have the nerve to talk about how other fans are treating you. Kyle, like I’ve said repeatedly over the last few days, I generally like and appreciate what you guys do over here, but give it a rest. I understand that this is a UGA blog, and by all means you guys can do and say whatever you want. But when you sit there and praise the poise, and trade mark calm of your coach, while bashing the “questionable” morals of the opposition, as your DC is cursing at the kicker, it looks ridiculous. I have no intention of arguing any more about this matter…if you feel the need rescind your welcome, it’s your blog.
I honestly have no idea what you mean.
I went back and looked, and, no, there wasn’t a single shot at Florida in the SEC Power Poll posting, the BlogPoll ballot posting, or any of the “Don’t Bet On It!” postings. Those postings were all about Georgia, and about my (genuine) dejection at the Bulldogs’ loss last weekend.
In my postgame posting, the only “shot” I took at Florida dealt with Chris Rainey, and my point was that I felt better raising my son to root for Mark Richt’s team than I would have if I was raising my son to root for Urban Meyer’s team. That criticism was directed at Urban Meyer’s decision to put Rainey back on the field so soon, a criticism Alligator Army’s mlmintampa had made previously.
When the story broke about the Todd Grantham incident, mlmintampa took a personal shot at me in his posting, as did a number of commenters in the ensuing thread. I reserved judgment until the facts came to light, and, when they did, I clearly and unequivocally criticized what Coach Grantham did, explained why it was wrong, and indicated what he needed to do to atone for it. Because of mlmintampa’s apparent equating of the two, I put the incident in context, so as not to overreact or underreact to it.
I truly have no idea what you’re talking about when you say I have “throw[n] out insult after insult,” when I have done nothing of the sort. The one insult I threw out was directed at a decision of Coach Meyer’s which mlmintampa also questioned, and I took great care to restrict it to my own experience. When it came to light that one of our coaches had done something inappropriate, I waited until the information came to light and criticized him appropriately. I’m genuinely trying to understand your position, but I really don’t get it.
Go 'Dawgs!
Kyle, you're one of the most reasonable guys out there
But in this rivalry, I don’t think either side occupies the moral high ground with respect to sportsmanship, taunting, and general gameday nastiness. Players, fans, coaches… many people on both sides has taken a break from keepin’ it classy at some point over the years. That’s why I think some Gator fans — present company included — take umbrage at “the pot calling the kettle classless.” I understand your response to the Alligator Army post, but the comment about Florida fans kicking the Dawgs while they were down disappointed me a bit. As I posted in a previous thread on this topic:
“There are no universally nice or rude fan bases, only collections of individuals. Some of us are rude, and the rest of us have been "caught up in the moment" at least once. Again, it’s an emotional game.
I love this rivalry and I love "hating" y’all, but let’s all withhold the moral judgments when we’re chomping and woofing at each other next year."
Fair enough.
My point about being kicked while we were down related to reactions in the blogosphere. I am of the Winston Churchill “in victory, magnanimity” school; I don’t know if a podcast that old is still archived for you to hear, but, when I called in to “EDSBS Live” after Georgia’s 2007 Cocktail Party win, I went out of my way not to give Orson Swindle a hard time. I was glad my team won; I had no desire to rub his nose in it.
I was surprised and disappointed by the personal nature of mlmintampa’s posting, and by the personal nature of some of the comments that followed. It’s one thing for Georgia fans to criticize Urban Meyer and Florida fans to criticize Todd Grantham, but I didn’t appreciate the shots I took. I don’t always succeed, but I genuinely try to conduct myself with class, and I chose my words carefully to ensure that I was praising my coach rather than ripping on yours.
Nevertheless, your point is well taken, and I appreciate your response. I am obliged.
Go 'Dawgs!
I actually remember that EDSBS podcast
I don’t know what that says about how I spend my time, but here we are.
You know, it’s funny. I guess my opinion on the post-game trash talk as mostly informed by my experience leaving the stadium. I sat on the Florida side, and walking out, it felt more like leaving a movie. People weren’t cheering and didn’t seem to be all that excited. Shock? Relief? Either way, I saw absolutely no animosity directed at Georgia fans. I guess they were saving it for the blogosphere.
Thanks for the response and keep up the good work.
I didn't make it this year, but Year2's report at Team Speed Kills . . .
. . . very much echoed what you wrote, as well. Sometimes, the anonymity of the internet gets to us all, and we write in cyberspace what we would never say to one another face-to-face.
I appreciate the compliment, MattyIceUF. We’ll see y’all in Jacksonville next fall.
Go 'Dawgs!
As one of those Georgia fans
I very much appreciate the lack of animosity by Florida fans. While the walk out of that stadium was thoroughly horrible, my interactions with (most) Florida fans were very pleasant, as they have been each year I’ve gone (the last 4). Especially after the games.
Post game a-holeness
The gator behavior after 2005 was enough “animosity” to last the rest of any of our lives.
Kinda makes me wonder if folks sitting in the opposing teams section (regardless of reason)
Go over the top to try to compensate for the fact that they’re in the minority in that area. The folks sitting around me were insufferable… but as I walked around to the Gator side of the stadium on my way to the shuttles, you are right on about the general attitude.
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
Come on guys
Can’t we agree that hate-week is the one week each year that the hurling of personal insults, choke signs, and gator chomps is perfectly acceptable? If it’s not acceptable that week when is it acceptable? Don’t say “never” Kyle.
by WindyCityDawg on Nov 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
One Suffering Red Shirt (with a "G)" in a Sea of Red
Just caught up on this latest controversy today as I have shunned any kind of sports news since about 30 seconds after the game last Saturday.
Spent the game watching my own private TV hell in a sports bar in Omaha…meanwhile listening to the red wearing Nebraska fans around me go wild as they pounded Missouri on the other 49 TVs. (Huskers are real…they would give any team a considerable challenge I believe)
I don’t think Grantham should have done what he did…maybe a short apology is in order…if not, I don’t see it as a big deal.
I agree with Kyle…the Meyer post-game actions is more churlish…but I expect it from him…..it’s done, let’s go out and try to win the rest of our games…Go Dogs.
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the Dawgs of war; - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene 1
Honestly...
People are blowing this out of proportion. Since when did football become so politically correct and “sissy” that players and coaches can’t jaw at each other? The only people who need to get off their high horse are the ones so offended by a little smack talk/gesture during a football game. People say nothing when players score TD’s and “cut their throats”. People say nothing when players score and jog past the Georgia sideline Gator chomping. If they can’t handle emotion, fiery personalities, and jawing perhaps golf is the sport for them.
Since people like this blog became whisses.
I wish CTG had shot him a bird. F Florida.
I'm not sure what a whiss is.
Help me out with a definition, and I’ll try to pinpoint when I became one.
Go 'Dawgs!
This blog has jumped the shark.
I seriously can’t believe you devoted this many words to such a non-incident.
Yeah, this is just like the high school mock trial and little league baseball teams you have coached. Totally comparable situations.
The majority of both fan bases don’t seem to care at all about what Grantham did, so just let it friggin’ die.
No, it isn't just like the high school mock trial team I used to coach.
I freely admit that the situations are not totally comparable. I was using an analogy to make a point. Maybe the analogy works, maybe it doesn’t.
What MaconDawg and I do for SB Nation is cover University of Georgia athletics, which typically means devoting at least some attention to every issue that is being discussed in Bulldog Nation. I don’t favor firing Mark Richt, but that topic is under discussion, so I devoted a couple of postings to possible replacements.
This topic is being discussed, as well. I discussed it. Having done so, I likely will let it die, barring additional news reports of note.
Go 'Dawgs!
Until I see Kyle's visage photoshopped into this image...
… no one can ever again say that this blog has “jumped the shark.”
I mean, if Kyle has jumped the shark as many times as people have said he has, why does traffic and community involvement continue to rise to unprecedented levels?
Stop jumping the shark with your comments. Claims of jumping the shark have totally jumped the shark.
I am absolutely certain . . .
. . . that this is the only time in my entire life that I have ever been compared to Arthur Fonzarelli.
Heyyyyyyyyyyyy!
(Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to start to comb my hair, then stop because it’s perfect.)
(FYG, Potsie!)
Go 'Dawgs!
Paul Finebaum went off today and was saying Grantham should be fired.
I don’t see what the big deal is. Maybe he should apologize, but whatever.
"Those are just facts and facts are just opinions and opinions can be wrong"
-Veronica, Better Off Ted
Yeah, saying he should be fired is nuts.
I don’t even think he ought be fined. I just don’t think it ought to be treated like it’s nothing. An apology would suffice.
Go 'Dawgs!
Did Urban apologise for calling time out?
I think you have about beat this lame horse to death.
In my defense, . . .
. . . I’ve been discussing a news story while it’s news. I’ve put up one fanshot and one posting upon the subject, both of which went up today. I have no plans to revisit the issue tomorrow. I have engaged in civil dialogue with fellow fans, some of whom agree with me and some of whom do not, in an effort to carry on a conversation. I don’t know that I’ve beaten anything to death, although I’ve been getting a lot of horse metaphors lately.
Go 'Dawgs!
Finebaum is like the unholy love child of Glenn Beck and Al Sharpton
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
by RedCrake on Nov 3, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No...
Finebaum is the unholy love child between Mr. Burns and Nancy Pelosi.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
Who would you want in the foxhole with you????????
I know it would not be Henry, Meyer or even Richt and that is all I have to say about that.
Really?
Are we really making this into a big deal? I thought the first posting about this was sarcasm. Is anyone surprised Grantham wanted the kicker to miss the field goal? If a “higher standard” gives us a staff full of Richt-esque stoicism then count me out. I was actually more annoyed when we scored the touchdown that tied the game and, on the sideline, Richt looked like his best dog had just died. Give me a cursing Saban or, dare I say it, a visor-throwing Spurrier. If I care more than the head coach, there is a problem. At least someone had some emotion.
This sounds like a legal forum
No wonder the country is going to heck in a hand bag when grown men can spend hours discussing something as dumb as this. It just boggles the mind. If you want a DC that is as calm as Mark then we can all go to the games to take naps and eat cookies. Meantime Urban’s thugs will be blinding our players and raping our women.
In our defense, . . .
. . . several of us here are lawyers in real life, and, as critical as I am of Urban Meyer, I don’t think there’s any basis for claiming his players are rapists.
Go 'Dawgs!
Are we so sure?
I mean, the charges against Rainey were dropped too…
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/sec/2009-03-09-florida-johnson_N.htm
Well, the charges against Chris Rainey weren't exactly "dropped."
He agreed to a deferral to a misdemeanor charge, which may give him a clean record at the end, but no one has denied that he sent the text message. While (as discussed in a prior thread) it’s unfair and inaccurate to call Rainey a “felon,” I don’t think there’s any indication that he didn’t do what he’s accused of doing.
That, in my mind, is different from the charges being dropped altogether, as the story to which you’ve linked indicates occurred. At a minimum, I’m certainly not going to endorse calling someone a “rapist” based on allegations that never resulted in prosecution. Even if such an accusation wasn’t defamatory, it’s over the top.
Go 'Dawgs!
From a diehard Gator Fan
Dear Friends,
To those who may read this comment…I really do not care who you are or which college sports team you follow. Yes, I am a diehard Gator and enjoyed thoroughly the game last Saturday when Florida beat Georgia in a game that was thrilling to the end and a nailbiter to say the least. Yes, I would have been upset if my team lost. However, for me it is a game and I can walk away on the 61st minute and continue my life. I am a rabid fan like you perhaps but a polite one and do not let the sport consume me and become a hateful person. I will be candid with you. If the Gators were the lesser team by far in terms of skill, then I would not be satisfied with a win and would always want the far superior team to win as they would have deserved it. Both teams last Saturday had talent and I would have wished it could have been a tie. The GA QB was sensational as was AJ Green and especially on that throw between 2 elite FL defenders in the end zone. Wow! I have read comments on using Rainey from FL and his recent legal issues. I am not, as you are not the judge/legal system and we should respect the law and goverance by the NCAA that did permit him to play. I do wish however that GA would improve and return to the glory days of Vince Dooley and Herschel Walker caliber because it was fun and the sport spoke for itself. These days, everyone including FL and GA want to just win as the end objective; sort of the world we live in. In conclusion, I will always wish my Florida Gators beat the Georgia Dawgs every year just as my wife who I met in Athens in 1997 and attended UGA wishes the Dawgs beat the Gators every October. Sixty minutes of fun and then we return to real life of 2 wars, health insurance reform battles, political quagmires, illegal immigration and unemployment. Get my message friends? Best. Gator4Ever
Meh.
Gator alum. Couldn’t care less, really. It was a little unprofessional and rude, but I don’t expect coaches or players to be saints. Didn’t see the Meyer thing, but it strikes me as the same sort of issue… a moment where your passion makes you do something that you probably wouldn’t ordinarily (something pretty innocuous, but a little embarassing.)
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 16
Fair enough.
Thanks for coming around and commenting, delicious.crab.
What’s the significance of your signature line, by the way? Just curious.
Go 'Dawgs!
It's an RPG character stat listing.
He’s saying he has a lot of charisma and intelligence, and that his strength and constitution are… well… less impressive.
So, in other words, I don’t think he’s really a Gator. :-)
by vineyarddawg on Nov 3, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Holy crap!
“Dungeons and Dragons”! E. Gary Gygax! 20-sided dice! Shades of 1982!
It’s been a long time. Man, I’d forgotten. Man, I used to be a geek an even bigger geek than I still am.
Go 'Dawgs!
Pass the dutchie on the left hand side
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
I see where you're coming from,
but it seems to me you’re making a HUGE deal over something completely innocuous.
I’m temped to quote Sgt. Hulka.
Finally! Someone who appreciates the "Lighten up, Francis" line from "Stripes"! :)
Just to be clear, I’m not trying to make a huge deal out of anything; I think the folks like the Journal-Constitution writers and Paul Finebaum who have called for Todd Grantham to be fined, suspended, or fired are being silly. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but I think it’s a bit of a deal. However, having had my say, I, like Coach Grantham, am ready to move forward.
Go 'Dawgs!
A long time follower of dawgsports, and a gator fan
Mr. king, I have been reading your blog for years, although I have just began commenting here. I must say that your opinions and arguments on the morality of the gators vs. the dawgs are, justifiably, quite hypocritical and biased. I dont condemn you for this, it is a natural part of fanaticism ( being a true fan).
I just want to point out that you (as I would probably myself do if I had a popular blog) constantly try to portray the bulldogs’ impressive morale violations (fulmer cup criminality, unsportsmanlike conduct by grown men, verbal abuse/threats in a cab, etc…) as products of external factors or simply misunderstandings and that “boys will be boys”, while you condemn as evil the florida players who commit morale violations themselves.
the truth is, rainey is not a dangerous person (as the woman who received the text believed and stated on record), and the gators are no more evil than your beloved bulldog players. our coach may be protective of his players and his team and respond accordingly, but he is no worse of a person than CMR. however, he has shown that he is a better football coach.
I understand that our inherent biases cause us to explain away our own evils and accentuate those of out enemies, but I would like to state that you do ride a hypocritical high horse and that it gets a bit old at times.
I appreciate and respect your point of view, . . .
. . . but I believe you are quite wrong. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that “boys will be boys” is no excuse, I have called for harsher punishments (which Mark Richt has handed down, by the way), I have clearly criticized Todd Grantham (in the posting to which your comment was attached, in fact) for his unsportsmanlike act, I don’t believe I have ever denounced a Florida player as “evil,” and I have drawn reasonable distinctions between arrests. Getting arrested when going to pick up your brother’s car because your license was suspended when you forgot to pay a speeding ticket is neither morally nor legally equivalent to text-messaging “time to die, bitch.” Being 20 years old and being found in possession of an alcoholic beverage is neither morally nor legally equivalent to shooting off an AK-47. Emerging from an alley is neither morally nor legally equivalent to stealing and using a dead girl’s credit card.
We will have to agree to disagree over whether Mark Richt is a better person than Urban Meyer; for what it’s worth, Florida fans like Orson Swindle essentially admit that this is the case. I regret that you find me “hypocritical” and that you think I am riding a “high horse”; I assure you that neither is the case.
Also, for what it’s worth, the “verbal abuse/threats in a cab” incident you cite does not support your claims. Unfounded accusations were made, but the subsequent investigation revealed that only one football player had been present, and that football player tried to serve as a peacemaker. I would respectfully suggest that your mistaken belief in the hypocrisy of my positions is attributable at least partly to your failure to get basic facts right.
Despite our disagreement, though, I appreciate your taking the time to comment. As I hope you have noted, I have moved on from this discussion after being criticized by both sides for raising the issue at all, and my most recent front page posting heaped considerable praise on the Florida athletic program, on Jeremy Foley, and on Urban Meyer. Even if you think I was riding some supposed high horse at one time, I clearly have put it in the stable. Like Coach Grantham, I am ready to move forward.
Go 'Dawgs!
Nah, I'll give riverrock324 credit:
He stated his case reasonably, and, except for the one error regarding the taxi cab incident, he marshaled pertinent facts in support of his argument. I’m fine with the constructive criticisms, and the tone with which he offered them, I just disagree, and, frankly, I think the “Kyle is on a high horse” meme has taken hold at Alligator Army. I don’t think it’s justified, but mlmintampa and his readers are entitled to have their opinions and to express them, especially at the network’s Florida Gators weblog. I don’t happen to think that meme squares with reality, but I get where they’re coming from, and I’m prepared to meet the enemy with as much respect and reasonableness as he displays. I credit riverrock324 with displaying significant amounts of both.
Go 'Dawgs!
fair enough
I could easily go with asked & answered, let’s move on already. Maybe I’m re-reading the same comments, and maybe it just seems that way. And maybe I just don’t understand why Gator fans (or Auburn, Tenn, Tech fans etc) go to all the trouble to come to a Bulldog blog, read the posts, and then leave comments about the things said on the blog, especially when the gist of their comments is – you people are all biased & hypocritical.
I rarely bother to even wander over to an opponents blog, partly b/c i have enough trouble keeping up with the happenings here, and partly b/c i just don’t care what’s being said. The same statement has been made by several gator fans over the last few days – you’re on some high horse, we’re all hypocritical, and worse it gets old?
Just makes me to tell the rest of internet universe – the words posted on the internet do not actually jump out of the internet, run through the wires (or wireless connections) and stab people in the eye and make them read what’s posted somewhere, so if you don’t like what’s posted somewhere – don’t read it – how hard is that???!!!
Maybe I’ll create a FB cause :)
I can bake like a demon.
Well, to be fair...
… we’ve documented quite well the fact that you were born in the wrong era. I think that, were you to have been born 100 or 200 years ago, your work ethic and intelligence level would have enabled you to be in a position to buy a fine, very tall horse, upon which you might have been regularly perched.
I don’t think that’s what mlmtampa and the guys at AA are talking about, though.
by vineyarddawg on Nov 3, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I just thought they were accusing my horse of smoking a lot of dope.
Of course, he is known around the stable as “the steed with the weed,” so there may be something to that rumor.
Go 'Dawgs!
Thanks, riverrock324.
I appreciate your understanding, and your readership.
It’s been a rough week. Granted, I probably haven’t done a whole lot to make it less rough on myself, but it’s been a tough one, nonetheless, and I am grateful for your reasonableness, even if we see things differently.
Go 'Dawgs!
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