Where Should the Georgia Bulldogs Turn if Greg McGarity Must Replace Mark Richt as Head Coach? (Part Two)
by T Kyle King on Oct 6, 2010 5:00 AM EDT
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PrintAs I indicated previously, we are shelving "Don’t Bet On It!" this week and focusing instead on the topic occupying everyone’s thoughts. I wish to repeat for the record that I believe Mark Richt should be and will be the head coach of the Georgia Bulldogs in 2011; I believe Mike Bobo, like Willie Martinez before him, was and is a capable position coach who was promoted past his level of competence; I believe Coach Bobo should be retained as the Bulldogs’ quarterbacks coach, and, even if he keeps the title of offensive coordinator (a post Neil Callaway also nominally held), Coach Richt should take over the play calling duties again. In short, no one should mistake the postings in this series as an indication that this is the sports weblog equivalent of Lyndon Johnson losing Walter Cronkite on Vietnam. (I apologize if that reference confuses some folks, but, if reading this weblog helps anyone to learn a little history, so much, the better.)
This is what Bulldog Nation is discussing, so let’s have the discussion. If the time has come to bring in a new head coach, which candidate is the best choice for the job? We’ve heard from rbarnes and Afghan Dawg, and I have identified the coaches who should not be on the list. That just leaves us with the real contenders. In order of preference, these are they:
No, I don’t think he burned any bridges last year. When Coach Smart previously was contacted about the vacant defensive coordinator post at his alma mater, there appeared to be no good reasons for him to consider accepting the offer. Alabama had just completed its second consecutive undefeated regular season and was expected to contend for a second straight national championship in 2010, while Georgia was coming off of its worst season under Mark Richt and the fans were grumbling.
The move was lateral by title and downward in program strength. On paper, that’s a poor career move. Nevertheless, Coach Smart appears to have considered the offer seriously, and his comments about his and his family's connection to Georgia sounded heartfelt. He’s still a damn good ‘Dawg, and no one should hold his decision of a year ago against him.
Given the recent success of the Nick Saban coaching tree (Will Muschamp, Derek Dooley, Jimbo Fisher), it was reasonable for Coach Smart to suspect that his next career move would be upward, to the head coach's chair, and his willingness to consider accepting a coordinator spot at Georgia strongly suggests that, if the Georgia head coaching job came open, he would be interested. While I would prefer Coach Muschamp, I don’t believe the Longhorns’ head coach in waiting would bolt Austin for Athens if asked (although some Texas fans disagree with me upon that point); Coach Smart, by contrast, showed real interest in returning to his alma mater, and it should be noted that, in last year’s head-to-head meeting for the national title, Coach Smart’s team got the better of Coach Muschamp’s team.
No candidate is perfect, of course, and Coach Smart is an unproven commodity as a head coach; as outsidethesidelines put it: "Given this train wreck, Georgia is probably not going to hire a defensive coordinator under the age of 40 with no head coaching experience." That should give us at least some pause, given the mixed record Georgia alumni have compiled as head coaches in Athens (the two least successful Red and Black coaches since the late 1920s both were former Bulldog players) and the fact that the jury remains out on the aforementioned Nick Saban coaching tree (we don’t yet know whether Derek Dooley, Jimbo Fisher, or Will Muschamp will pan out over the long haul).
To me, that level of uncertainty is a strong argument for retaining Mark Richt, as the likelihood of improving upon his level of success over the last decade is low. However, the three head coaching hires the Bulldogs have made in my lifetime took the three available avenues of approach: promote from within (Ray Goff), bring in a head coach who had been successful with a smaller program (Jim Donnan), and hire an up-and-coming young coordinator from a national championship-caliber program (Mark Richt). There’s no question which one of those three approaches worked out the best, so, if a change must be made, I would prefer to chart the course that appears most likely to produce positive results.
When asked for his take, Roll Bama Roll’s kleph noted that Coach Saban "urges his assistants to take advantage of job opportunities as long as they are advancements"; last year’s offer from Georgia was not, but this year’s offer from Georgia would be. Coach Smart’s salary currently is tied with Todd Grantham’s as the highest in the SEC for a defensive coordinator, so the next logical step for Coach Smart is to the head coaching post I predicted in the preseason he would accept this December.
A return to his alma mater would be a good move for Coach Smart, since, as kleph observes (in characteristic lower-case), "he stays in the SEC where the style of play he's learned under [C]oach [S]aban has proven successful and where he won't be competing annually against his mentor. . . . [F]rom a [G]eorgia standpoint it makes sense in that you get a young coach who[’s] been behind the resurgence of one of the sport's greatest defensive powers. [I]t makes even more sense when you consider [C]oach [G]rantham is already a year into the transition to the 3-4 both as a scheme on the field and in terms of recruiting players."
Finally, kleph points out an interesting historical parallel. In 1929, Wallace Wade left Tuscaloosa to go to Durham, and he recommended that Alabama’s president, George H. Denny, hire a Georgia assistant, Frank Thomas. Denny heeded Coach Wade’s advice, and the hire worked out well for the Crimson Tide, so, really, they owe us one. Consider Kirby Smart the head coach to be named later in the Frank Thomas trade.
On the whole, then, I believe Coach Smart is an excellent candidate, I believe he would take the job if offered, and I believe Greg McGarity's first call should be to Kirby Smart if the time comes to replace Mark Richt. Still, every plan must have a backup, which brings us to my second choice:
While Boise State has grabbed most of the mid-major headlines on behalf of the weak WAC, Texas Christian has been as strong a program in the toughest non-AQ conference. (The two teams have split a pair of bowl meetings in the last two seasons.) Currently, the Horned Frogs rank fifth nationally in scoring defense (making this the fifth straight year that TCU has been a top ten team in that category) and third nationally in total defense (after finishing first in the country in that category for the past two years).
In addition to being stout defensively, the Horned Frogs have won consistently and have acquitted themselves capably against teams from the "big six" conferences. Texas Christian has won ten or more games in six of the last eight seasons, including four of the last five. Against opponents from AQ leagues, Coach Patterson’s TCU squads have gone 15-4 in the last nine seasons, with wins over Northwestern in 2002, Vanderbilt and Arizona in 2003, Northwestern in 2004, Oklahoma and Iowa State in 2005, Baylor and Texas Tech in 2006, Baylor and Stanford in 2007, Stanford in 2008, Virginia and Clemson in 2009, and Oregon State and Baylor in 2010.
It still seems crazy to me to fire a head coach whose accomplishments from 2001 to 2010 include a 91-31 overall record, a 50-25 conference record, a 7-2 bowl record, and two conference championships. If you’re going to go that route, however, it makes sense to hire a head coach whose accomplishments from 2001 to 2010 include a 90-27 overall record, a 54-18 conference record, a 5-3 bowl record, and three conference championships. (By the way, Coach Patterson led the Frogs to a 27-10 record in his first three full seasons in Fort Worth, fell to 5-6 in 2004, and turned it around with an 11-1 record the following year and a 47-10 run ever since. Coaches who’ve been successful before oftentimes find ways to turn it around and become successful again after stumbling.)
Coach Patterson seems to be a no-nonsense guy, and TCU's pedigree (a former Southwest Conference member that regularly takes on current Big 12 teams) suggests that he is more likely to be able to move up in weight class than Boise State's Chris Petersen (who is weighed down by the baggage of Dirk Koetter's and Dan Hawkins's faceplants after leaving Idaho for larger programs) or a former Georgia hire, Marshall’s Jim Donnan (who was moving up from the Division I-AA ranks). Moreover, Coach Patterson's coaching staff includes Dick Bumpas, whom many Georgia fans wanted to see hired as the Bulldogs' new defensive coordinator last December.
In short, I believe that, if Kirby Smart turns the Georgia job down, Greg McGarity's next call should be to Gary Patterson if the time comes to replace Mark Richt. Nevertheless, it may not be as simple as placing a phone call from Athens to Fort Worth, according to Mountain West Connection’s Jeremy Mauss. Jeremy reminds us that "Gary Patterson is really comfortable at TCU, plus his base salary is $1.3 million which is one of the highest in the non-BCS ranks and better then a handful of BCS league coaches. . . . I just do not see Gary Patterson leaving for the Georgia job unless they pay him a boat load of money, which we know they can. I could be naive in thinking he is a TCU lifer, but he seems to be a Texas guy and would perhaps go to Texas A&M before he heads to Georgia."
While agreeing with me that Chris Petersen’s advancement has been hampered by his predecessors’ failures on a larger stage, Jeremy notes that "TCU has on a smaller scale the same stigma for head coaches failing once they leave," given the state in which former Horned Frogs skipper Dennis Franchione left Alabama and Texas A&M when his tenure at those two schools ended.
Jeremy wonders, "The way TCU has gone the past few years why would he go for Georgia besides the money?" Coach Patterson has taken the Horned Frogs to a BCS bowl game, and Texas Christian is being considered for membership in an AQ conference. At the end of the day, therefore, Jeremy believes that, "if Patterson is in the BCS title game, or even a BCS game, I do not think he would leave."
As before, nothing in life is certain. Gary Patterson is a qualified candidate who has produced a solid track record of success as a head coach in the Division I-A ranks, but we cannot be certain that he would come to Athens if asked, nor can we be certain that he would succeed in the SEC if he did. There’s a good bit of guesswork involved even in what appears to be the surest of sure things.
Accordingly, at the risk of being repetitive, redundant, and repetitive, I think Mike Bobo should stick to coaching quarterbacks and Mark Richt should go back to calling plays. If, however, we find ourselves in the position of needing to hire a new head coach, those are the two names that ought to be on the list. Your thoughts, of course, are welcome in the comments below.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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My pic, as stated earlier...
is COACH MARK RICHT!
Let the “live in the moment” folks pic the next Lane Kiffin…(yes, I went there!)
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
by Inteljumper on Oct 6, 2010 6:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Be careful what you wish for
I share the frustrations of the Bulldog Nation. However, if we (foolhardily) decide to part ways with Mark Richt, we will have to replace him with someone better.
No one has been better for this University than Mark Richt. He has never embarrassed or disgraced us and has been wildly successful for 85% of his tenure in Athens. Truth be told, our “lunatic fringe” that is calling for his ouster will, in effect, make the job a less attractive option for anyone even considering the job, should Richt be fired.
We are indeed a Top 10 program and we should be winning. But we are not. It’s that simple. College athletics are cyclical and every successful college coach that has won anything—a National Championship, a Conference Championship—anything, has had periods of diminished success. Nick Saban, head coach of our most recent national champion, endured more than six seasons subpar records. Yet, his employers saw fit to give him time to turn it around.
Let’s stay the course. Let the young kids play to get experience. Recruit well for our system and revisit our playcalling issues. Georgia is not horrible, they are just not polished, making them vulnerable to mind-blowing losses. Nobody wants to hear this now, but our defense is significantly better than the Martinez years. Tackling can get better, for sure. However, it is better than last year. Let’s give it time, Dawg Nation!
Go Dawgs!!!
by HaroldWayneJenkins on Oct 6, 2010 7:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Mr King
Can I make a request…can you replace the site’s headline with what I saw originally: “You can’t spell GATA without Grantham?” I know I’m a noob, but that was the most inspiring!
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
I’m all for avoiding the lunatic fringe, but let’s not gloss over the reality. If Spurrier beats Florida this season he will match Richt’s win total against the Gators in four less seasons. Richt’s tenure has had success, there’s no doubt about it, but every season he’s the coach there’s a greater likelihood we’ll lose to Kentucky or Vanderbilt than beating the Gators.
There’s no such thing as a sure hire. If the Dawgs do indeed to make a change it should be based on Richt, not on who we think we can hire.
I agree with Inteljumper and HaroldWayneJenkins.
When asked the question, “Should we get rid of Mark Richt?” my answer is not only, “No!” but, “Hell, No!”
I understand the necessity of asking the questions we’ve been through over the past couple of days, but if Mark Richt finds himself unemployed at the end of the 2010 season, my opinion of Greg McGarity will suffer some permanent damage.
I am completely eviscerated by this entire discussion. If you told me 1.5 months ago I’d be reading a post about who should replace Coach Richt I would have assumed he had died tragically.
That said… our season has died tragically and inexplicably. Just like there wasn’t any excuse for squandering the Moreno/Stafford final year there isn’t any excuse for this. There is no positive momentum either on the field or in the program right now(off field issues) and there hasn’t been any for almost 2 years. That’s not acceptable. I want Richt to be the one to turn it around but you need some momentum from somewhere.
Mark Richt should stay
But I think it may be time for an overhaul, and Richt needs a sit-down from McGarity to tell him what is expected of him. Our players are too soft, and I think a return to hard hitting practices this week may be good for the team. It increases the risk of injury but it’ll build a tougher team.
The only conversation that I hope we’re having at the end of the season is asking who is going to be the next offensive coordinator. But I do agree that Kirby Smart is probably our best option at this point.
I should clarify that last part
I agree that Kirby Smart is our best option for head coach if, God forbid, we get to that point.
Mark Richt certainly has earned another year, but. . .
I’m confused why so many on here think that it is some kind of no question slam dunk thing.
Go read the quotes about UGA from Isaiah Crowell. Crowell said of Georgia, "[w]ell, they’re losing a lot of games and have a lot of people getting arrested." Considering that recruting is the lifeblood of any program, that’s a damning indictment from the best young player in the State of Georgia.
Mark Richt’s team is 9-9 over the last 18 games. This year has seen losses to Miss. St. and Colorado. It is now guaranteed that the University of Georgia, at the very least, is going to experience two down years in a row (one can make a convincing argument that it will be 4 disappointing years out of the last 5). In any event, the program is a far cry from what it was 2001-2005.
At some point, the current sustained performance begins to overshadow the performances of the past. If Richt is capable of turning the program around, one has to wonder – when is he going to do so? What is taking so long?
I hope Mark Richt turns it around because coaching changes stink, but I think his ability to do so is far less certain than is generally believed on this site.
As a rival fan....
I view these hires through a different lens. When I see a name, and I think “ohh, I hope he doesn’t go there” it probably means it’s a good hire, at least IMO. I’ve read both articles on this, and I can’t say that I’ve seen a bunch of names that make me worry, that UGA will be dominating the conference if such and such is hired. I tend to side with TKK on this one, and think that Richt is probably the best guy to lead UGA. That being said, I think TKK is kind of glossing over Richt’s resume. If recruiting rankings are to be believed at all, and I realize that they have many flaws, UGA has brought in exceptional classes routinely with Richt at the helm. Those classes could have, and I think should have produced more winning for UGA. The inability to maximize talent falls on Richt’s shoulders.
Obviously the paths of our two universities haven’t been identical, but I can certainly sympathize with looking at a roster, seeing a ton of talent, and not seeing that talent produce the wins that it should. It seems to me that Richt can win when the rest of the league is a bit down, but when there are other schools with equal or better talent, he doesn’t come out on top. This is just a feeling I get about him. It’s kind of how we are currently looking at Addazio. If all things are equal on Sat. between the two teams on the field, and it comes down to who has the better coaching staff, the UF offense will lose.
Of the names listed, Harbaugh, and Smart jump out at me the most. I would wonder about harbaugh’s ability to recruit down here, but I think his name alone will draw kids to him. He’s done a great job at Stanford, and he’s one of the only names on the two lists that really scares me. Smart has recruited well at Bama, but I wonder if he’s HC material. He may be, he may not. I wonder how much of the Bama defensive success is Saban, and not Smart. I think Smart would be a good coach, but I don’t necessarily think he would be an upgrade over Richt. I do think that Richt can right the ship so to speak, but I think it could take a couple of years, and at this point, I don’t believe he has that much time. See you fellas at the end of the month.
like in my comments
the lack of capitalization was simply due to the degree omitting them boosts my typing speed. i got the impression you needed the reply toot sweet.
i’d also like to stress is that coach smart moving to athens is a good fit for alabama and for a couple of reasons:
first, we’d see him move to a highly regarded sec school, which is the gold standard for coaching hires. we talk about how putting players in the pros helps bring in pro-prospect recruits… well, putting assistants in plumb HC slots keeps the best coaches in the country looking toward tuscaloosa as well.
second, its fits the current situation of the team. last year we knew there was going to be a ton of attrition in the roster, particularly on defense. the recent recruiting hauls meant there was a lot of talent in the wings but the lack of experience put a premium on their tutelage. so coach smart’s staying was paramount. next year, these kids will be veterans and that’ll be a much better situation for a coaching transition.
third, georgia is in the east. which means the coach that has the most intimate familiarity with the defense won’t be on the schedule annually. a saban v smart matchup would be a heck of a draw but doing it every year would wear thin quick. and it would only mean that one coach associated with the program would see his record worsen.
lastly, if you are serious in learning more about coach smart’s approach i urge you to pick up the 2010 coach of the year clinic football manual which has a section on smart’s presentation concerning defensive principles. our favorite excerpt:
We [Alabama] win because we can run the ball and stop the run. It is that simple. People say that is old-school mentality. It is, and we practice that way. Everything else we do comes off that premise. Historically, the teams that can run the ball and stop the run win more games.
The offenses today want to throw the ball. The Players like it, and it is fun. At the University of Alabama, we are not about fun. We are about toughness, being physical and winning ball games. The players have fun by winning games and championships. We do things that way and our players buy into that idea and play hard for us.
if that sounds like a philosophy you can get behind, coach smart might be your man.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
terrible philosophy
I think they should focus on running plays that prove unsuccessful, and maybe recruit a QB to run a system that he can’t….that’s how champions are made.
i see what you did there
but i’m taking it at face value to emphasize a point kyle made above. the excerpt is just to show what might be coach smart’s approach. we know he’s bought in to it and has implemented it superbly but it may not be his specific model. we can assume his will be along those lines, but nothing specific.
the big question mark is exactly what your ripost is aimed at. there’s a wide gulf between intention and actuality. the measure of a great head coach is his ability to implement a winning philosophy and that specific factor is the biggest unknown a school faces when making a hire of this kind. you know coach smart is a good defensive coordinator and you know he’s got a solid philosophy guiding his approach — but you have no idea if he has the requisite skills to implement that at the program level.
because being a head coach is as much about logistics and politics as it is X’s and O’s. and you’ve got to be blessed in every category to succeed in a league as competitive as the SEC. kirby smart may have the latter but his skills at the other two remain a very big unknown.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
I agree about Smart
and said as much above…He may be amazing, and he would certainly qualify as a better hire, at least initially than Derek Dooley.
at some point you have to look at it impartially
and ask if the amount of risk promised by a given choice is acceptable for the advantages it offers.
obviously the option with the least risk is retaining richt since he’s such a known commodity, but the perceived lack of advantage (i.e. wins) going forward is pushing people to think the upshot of another coach might be preferable.
with smart there’s a lot of upshot given his track record and reliable approach, the question is experience at the highest level of a program. can he implement his philsophy? with patterson you’ve got the opposite scenario. he’s proven he can handle the managerial side of running a successful program but his record isn’t a hell of a lot better than who you’ve got.
smart offers more risk but higher reward. patterson offers equal reward with less risk.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Geez... a Florida fan and a Bama fan arguing whether we should hire Kirby Smart or Jim Harbaugh to replace Mark Richt.
God, this sucks.
(No offense, though, kleph and Cardsfan25.)
by vineyarddawg on Oct 6, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
to be clear
i’m discussing the possibility in the same way t. kyle is. my personal belief is that retaining richt is the proper course of action for the reasons i just iterated. there is far too much risk and insufficient reward associated with any other option at this point.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
Well, in this hypothetical.
I said I think Richt is probably the right man for the job, but if UGA were to make a change, I think Harbaugh would be a great hire.
Yes. Harbaugh needs to be in the SEC...
And, frankly, I’d rather have him in the East.
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
because being a head coach is as much about logistics and politics as it is X’s and O’s
I wish more people understood this. Just firing and hiring doesnt = success. As I said in another thread the HC is only 51% Xs and Os. That’s why great coordinators are so critical.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
I'm pretty sure in college ball
51% overstating it. I’d believe 51% in the NFL, maybe, but on any other level, it’s almost certainly less than that.
This is a great quote and philosphy - but I have noticed your QB aint exactly sucking (nor the passing game)
Firing on all cylinders makes any philosophy look good.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
Team's offense is offensive ....
…. to most fans. Agree that Richt should either resume play calling or hire an experienced successful guy to be OC. Don’t know if position coaches on offense are SEC caliber – thought Searles was, but line play is very suspect.
McClendon? Bobo? Goff-like. Great Dawgs fer sure, but so am I and I don’t need to play running the offense.
It's a gas, gas, gas.
I agree... but when reading your comment this was the only voice I could hear in my head.
“This offense is afraid of me, I have seen its true face.”
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
The thought...
Of UGA parting ways with Richt produces an uneasy feeling to overcome my body. While gut feelings and hunches are not nearly as persuasive as factual arguments and statistics, I do not feel that there is a better coach for the program. Why? Who knows?
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
I sympathize with the people who can't conceive of losing a coach like Richt
But the downward trajectory in the program over the past few seasons is pretty steady, and it’s gotten hard to ignore. I don’t think we’ll be looking for a new coach after this season, nor do I really want us to be, but next season clearly sets up as a make-or-break year for Richt’s job security, and as I’ve said on my blog before, I just don’t see a lot of hopeful signs pointing to the kind of improvement that would make 2011 a career-saving year.
On a different subject, I continue to be mystified by the pedestal to which Georgia fans seem to be elevating Kirby Smart these days. If memory serves, he wasn’t even the first guy we called about the defensive coordinator position — why would he be the first guy we’d talk to about becoming our head coach, other than the fact that he’s got a UGA diploma on his wall? Alabama and Florida both achieved their present levels of dominance by hiring guys who had proven track records as head coaches at fairly high levels of competition; I don’t see why Georgia shouldn’t be shooting for the same kind of target, whenever our next head-coaching search happens to be.
HJS has been right on the money, Doug
The only hopeful sign that I see right now is the schedule. Georgia still has the talent to go 11-1 or better against that schedule, but it’s a double-edged sword: anything worse than 10-2 would be proof that Coach Richt has to go. Losing to South Carolina and Arkansas this year was painful but understandable. Losing to Mississippi State and Colorado back-to-back is unacceptable. Coach Richt built up a lot of goodwill from 2002-2005 and in 2007, but it has evaporated during this 3 year skid.
I don’t get the love for Kirby Smart either. Saban is clearly the mastermind behind the system and does all of the gameplanning. The fact that Kirby got a raise only proves that Alabama is willing to pay SEC market salaries for someone with the coordinator title. Saban’s system is complicated enough that Kirby’s familiarity with it would be extremely valuable even if all he’s doing is helping out with practice, watching film, and executing the script that Saban wrote. It doesn’t mean that he has any idea how to run the system without Saban’s input. It certainly doesn’t mean that he would be a good head coach. He might be a genius, but my point is that we have no way of knowing.
The appeal of Smart, as said by a friend:
“I would give up Richt if we could hire Kirby. Then, he would eat the other coaches, thus gaining their knowledge and their hats.”
"It'll only be reviewed because the guys up in the booth want to watch it a few times too." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf16_mw0nxs
by AdamLilly on Oct 6, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Follow my series of conditional statements here.
If the Buddhists are right, and reincarnation happens, and if I’m reincarnated as a dog, and if my owners put me in that getup, then I am going to make Cujo look like a refugee from The Planet’s Funniest Animals.
Unless there are Beggin’ Strips involved. Then I could probably be bargained with.
/the surreal rabbit trail in the comment thread. All good SBNation comment threads have one.
Why wait a year to fire a man...
in your scenario, I don’t see the benefit of giving Richt (or any coach) a year as dead man walking.
Like a band aid, yank it off, one motion.
This is probably a bad week for me to be posting here
But I post in peace. If I write this comment as intended it will be devoid of both passion and prejudice. It won’t even have conclusions, just some observations. Here goes:
I kinda have to co-sign Doug on this one. The arguments and supporting facts employed by the folks who summarily dismiss the idea of firing Richt are similar in form to what I remember seeing in 2005, when the subject was Phillip Fulmer. The flaw with those kind of arguments — and I’m speaking mostly to career winning percentage arguments — is that when a coach has been there for a while, the denominator in that winning percentage equation gets pretty doggon big and thus the resulting percentage becomes quite resilient to sudden movement. Strict adherence to that metric will keep a guy on until the sinking ship is fresh out of lifeboats and the band can no longer play on a dry stage. Career accomplishments cannot be overlooked, but trendlines should not be ignored either.
Please undersand that I have no dog in this fight (pun not intended). I have no preference one way or another on whether Richt remains HC in perpetuity (normalized for reasonableness) or is replaced tomorrow. All I am saying is that the pro-Richt arguments very much remind me of pro-Fulmer arguments in 2005. And I hated those arguments.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
That's a reasonable position.
Now I’m going to flame you for it. :-)
Not really… in actuality, you are correct, of course. Richt’s current position does mirror that of many long-term coaches at other SEC schools who experienced declines late in their tenures. The biggest question, to which I don’t think anyone yet has the answer, is whether this is a down cycle from which Richt can recover, or whether this is the fading that he can’t turn around that will signal the end of his tenure in Athens.
A related question might be whether Richt will get sufficient time to turn the ship around (however one defines “sufficient time,” which can be a whole ’nother argument in and of itself).
To me, another strong supporting argument in favor of Richt is, “What would happen to him, career-wise, if he were fired at the end of 2010?” In both of his predecessors’ cases, their coaching careers literally never left Athens after being fired. In Richt’s case, if he even wanted to coach again (as opposed to ministry-related work, which would undoubtedly be a strong pull), he could get a position at any number of very good schools that will be looking for a coach next year.
North Carolina and Michigan spring to mind, followed by a second tier of Maryland, Virginia, and maybe even Miami (though that’s less likely given the success they’re having now).
Now that I think about it...
… UNC might have Mark Richt’s number on speed dial, ready for the moment they hear that he’s been fired (they hope).
Thanks, kidbourbon; we appreciate the sentiments, and the spirit in which they were offered.
To piggyback on vineyarddawg’s point, I believe that is one of the distinctions between Mark Richt and the two coaches most often cited as examples by those who lean toward making a change in Athens, Phillip Fulmer and Tommy Tuberville. Coach Fulmer hasn’t been considered for any other coaching posts, so far as I am aware, and Coach Tuberville sat out of coaching for a year before taking the Texas Tech job.
If Georgia fired Coach Richt, and Coach Richt wanted to stay in coaching, he wouldn’t have to sit out a year and he would receive immediate offers. The marketplace seems to have something to say about Mark Richt that is much more favorable than what it had to say about Phillip Fulmer or Tommy Tuberville. Perhaps that should tell us something.
While we disagree, though, I appreciate your viewpoint, and I look forward to a good game on Saturday.
Go 'Dawgs!
Having a diploma from UGA
has nothing to do with being a successful HC. I am mystified by the fixation on said diploma.
I’m also a bit miffed when potential coaches (HC & OC) are dismissed because of their system (the spread) and the weak argument about turning out potential pros. I have seen a few comments about recruits shying away from the spread – well it seems to be working for Florida. Florida gets better talent across the board. Systems may turn a few away however most kids simply want to win.
My final comment – give CMR a bit more time – with the right coordinators he can and will succeed.
Since I'm quoted, I'll add my two cents...
I’ll begin by saying that Kirby Smart is a great assistant coach, and with the exception of OL coach Joe Pendry, I believe he would probably be the most difficult staff replacement for UA. He’s been with Saban a while now, he’s a great recruiter, he’s a good teacher. I’d hate to see him leave, and I think it would be pretty tough to fill his void. Not impossible, mind you, but tough.
Having said that, though, we at RBR have discussed in the past the possibility of setting up Smart as a head coach-in-waiting in Tuscaloosa. My thinking was that, Saban has endorsed the idea of succession planning, and if anyone would get the nod from the current staff it would likely be Smart. And, frankly, that’s still true today.
However, note what I wrote in the comments:
I wouldn’t feel comfortable with him as head coach right now, but in three or four years that may be a different story.
I still stand by that statement, too, and I would also add a heavy emphasis on “may.” I’ll be frank, if we promoted Kirby Smart to head coach today I would be extremely concerned. And we’re an elite program now. If we put him in charge of a rebuilding effort, I’d probably be looking for the nearest ledge.
I think he will probably be a very good head coach in time, but the youth and complete inexperience has to scare the living hell out of any rational observer. He will turn only 35 this off-season — that’s three years younger than Shula was when we hired him, and he’s seven months younger than Lane Kiffin — and this is only his third season holding a title above a position coach. Admittedly he plays a key role on our staff, but having said that clearly Saban is the one running the defense.
Now, again, I think he’ll be a very good head coach in due time, but hiring him now for a rebuilding job in the SEC would be a huge risk. UGA would probably be much better served by getting someone like Patterson with more age and some actual coaching experience, because if there is one thing that we know about SEC football, it is that it is most certainly not the place to get on the job training (see Dubose, Orgeron, Shula, Croom, Goff, Zook, etc.). There are a couple of exceptions to that rule (Fulmer, Richt), but usually hiring youth and inexperience in the SEC results in a train wreck.
Maybe I’m wrong, and admittedly I don’t claim to know anything inside about Georgia football, but I see UGA going in another direction when the bells toll for Richt.
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." -- Milton Friedman
by outsidethesidelines on Oct 6, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
Good points.
I said when we hired Todd Grantham as our defensive coordinator that we were getting Kirby Smart plus a little seasoning. He’s a great coach, no doubt. But he’s not a proven commodity as a head coach. Few if any of the realistic options would be. As set out in kleph’s notes above, there’s risk inherent in these decisions. You have to decide as a program how much risk you’re willing to take on. Kirby Smart may be the next Nick Saban. Or he may be the next Ray Goff.
Another note on Smart that a lot of Georgia fans may or may not be thinking about: he was the primary recruiter for Knowshon Moreno, and has been ’Bama’s point man for Georgia recruiting. For my money he may be the best recruiter in the SEC. That should not be overlooked if this sort of decision ever had to be made.
and picking a young head coach for georgia
is a little like picking a young pope or supreme court justice. for better or worse, you are likely gonna be stuck with the guy for awhile.
Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.
I completely agree. THank you.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
I say just let the DawgSports comment thread posters call the plays for a game.
Then we can all realize why, in fact, we pay these people large sums of money to do the job.
Let him demote Bobo if he needs to, but don’t fire Richt. Also, I believe that Richt should use his professional, first-hand judgement to make staffing decisions, rather than just bowing to outside sentiment. People are fickle, you can’t make long-term decisions based on the mob.
My UGA franchise in NCAA11 averages 40+ points a game and is contending for its fifth consecutive national title...
Spears for OC!
Seriously, though, good point. While I’m no fan of Bobo’s playcalling, it’s infinitely easier for us to pick apart what went wrong than it is to be in there day-to-day making sure things go right.
that can't be right....
I’m en route to yet another Florida title in 2014, so I believe you to be a liar sir.
Sorry Cardsfan25...
There are no NCAA dynasties on this blog where Florida does not lose 101-3 to Georgia every year.
Hey, we gotta win in some venue.
BTW, in my dynasty...
… Caleb King won the Heisman last year, and then Washaun Ealey won it this year. And Joe Cox graduated with a national championship ring.
So there.
every year?
Come on. That’s just not reasonable. Even I’ve simulated a few games, and lost on accident….probably even to UGA while drunk. That AI loves him some Bulldogs…grumblestupidfumblegrumble
We can all agree on that.
The NCAA AI loves him some upsets, that’s for sure… it’s made me lose to Vanderbilt before, for crying out loud. Maybe we can start calling the simulation engine, “the Mike Pouncey effect.” (Or, if you prefer, “the Steve Addazio effect.”)
With that said, I never simulate the Florida game, because I want to, you know, beat Florida 101-3.
(I hate Florida.)
ouch
“Steve Addazio effect”…that’s cold, and the wound is so fresh. Whenever I sim and the AI makes me lose to UGA, and I just call it “unrealistic”.
Touché
That’s why I don’t often engage in smack talk with Florida fans… I don’t like hearing the irrefutable retort, “Scoreboard.”
Can we just reschedule this for the week after Georgia beats Florida again? Or, well… why don’t I just get back to you on that scheduling thing.
Give me the bills - I got the skills!
I will gladly call a 1st and 10 bomb every time. Except I will have this guy called a TE standing 5-10 yards away jumping up and down waving his arms when the fly pattern isnt open.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
LOL...I want to point out that I wasn't necessarily defending Bobo.
Just pointing out that its surely much more complicated dealing with real life people and college kids than many of us watching it on TV make it out to be. If they were all robots, then we could just have hired Spears like he said above.
Might get boring with 5 straight national titles though. We’d have to mix a season with a New Years Day bowl in there somewhere just to keep it interesting.
TCU Perspective
It’s good to read that the majority of you UGA supporters recognize a great coach when you already have one. Gary Patterson is not leaving TCU and Texas recruiting. Nebraskas, K-State(his alma mater where he played), and Tennesse have already tried, just to name a few. The key point in that article was Jerry Mauss’s comments regarding Patterson’s mentor, coach Franchione. He say what a train wreck it was for him with midnight moving trucks in Tuscaloosa to a horrible run at T A&M. GP know he has a great thing going with a lot less pressure than Georgia/SEC footbal would bring. Having said that, if Richt is fired and Patterson is hire, I want TCU to swap coaches and grab Richt!!!!!
Which is something that I think most UGA fans have to admit.
Unless he chooses to, Mark Richt will not remain unemployed for long. He would have his pick of available jobs. That’s not an accident of the job market. It’s a testament to the fact that our coach is well thought of in professional circles. Even opposing fans can’t really find a lot to dislike about the guy, other than the fact that he’s so hard to dislike. Running off guys like Richt before it becomes absolutely necessary makes people think twice about taking the job.
Not leaving Texas recruiting...
Access to Florida/the Carolinas/Atlanta and the Gulf Coast more than makes up for Texas. Besides, Georgia can recruit nationally (can I get a Knoshown?). Patterson at UGA would easily be able to tap into the Texas recruiting while getting the benefit of the Speed Belt.
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 6, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It only makes up for it
if you have the connections. Patterson would either have to leave some of his assistants behind to include new hires familiar with the region, or build new recruiting relationships from scratch.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Oct 6, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is all kinda' premature anyway
Fr. QB; missing AJ for a 1/3d of the season, and breaking in a brand new defense, coupled with past success and continued recruiting earn Richt another year. Deservedly.
Speaking of the defense, it’s a point I’ve made several times on our game threads, and is something we saw at Alabama in 2007. Switching to the 3-4 is a nightmare. You get the players up front in the right position, but if all 11 guys aren’t on the same page, the secondary is especially prone to getting blown up. It’s just as frustrating to watch those beautifully-dialed blitzes get stymied as the guys know what to do, and try to execute, but lack the crispness to pull it off. Then, the corners/safeties are on an island with bad matchups and/or no help over the top.
Trust me though, with the talent in Athens, the defense you see now will be remarkably improved next year at this time. It’s a slow and frustrating learning curve, though, I admit.
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 6, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
as for bulding new connections, that is very true...
Hire an assistant or high school liaison from the area. I do like Patterson a lot, though.
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 6, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry
I don’t think McGarity is drinking the Fire Richt Kool-aid yet. He won’t be going anywhere this year. That doesn’t mean the rest of our offensive staff shouldn’t start packing their things though. Which is probably the direction we should be going.
I hear ya, but there is one thing that talks the loudest, and that is 2 mil + a year.
"One thing I will never do as long as I’m at Georgia is lose to Florida." - Herschel Walker
I remain amazed that Patterson hasn't gotten a look from SEC teams.
He’s a proven commodity; his S&C programs are outstanding; his teams are physical without playing paleo-ball.
Considering the turnover at UT, Ole Miss, Miss. State, Auburn (whom we all despise), and UK, you’d think he would have gotten at least one serious look.
"Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero
by Stuck in the Plains on Oct 6, 2010 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
He did get an offer from Tennessee, IIRC. No dice.
by HawkeyedFrog on Oct 10, 2010 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Was it a formal offer?
I know his name was mentioned, but I didn’t know it got as far as him getting an offer and turning it down. Do you have a link to a news report on that? Thanks.
It looks like we won’t be needing that information, after all, but it’s nice to know, anyway. Much obliged.
Go 'Dawgs!
I hope Richt stays on, but if you do find yourself in the market for a coach, you will be hard pressed to find one anywhere who puts a better defense on the field than Patterson. Offense-wise I’ve been high and low on him (high until the Andy Dalton Air Raid debacle in the Fiesta Bowl last year), but defense wise, he’d be great in the SEC. He even knows how to pretty well shut down the Utah/Florida Spread.
I’ll be rooting for y’all going forward, though, since I think we both like our coaches where they are.
by HawkeyedFrog on Oct 10, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you should fire Mark Richt post-haste
I wouldn’t settle for a non-BCS head coach like Patterson though. That’s someone a school like South Carolina would target. You should go after Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, and Jim Tressel openly. You’ll probably get the first one, but even if you don’t, anyone you target after that knows they are your fallback options, so they better win big quick. That will provide the proper motivation. If Gary Patterson doesn’t take it in those circumstances, he’s probably too scared of the SEC anyway. You’ll find somebody desperate brave enough for the opportunity.
Also, you should declare Michael Adams President for Life, and grant him direct control of the Athletic Department. Everything that man touches turns to solid gold!
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Oct 6, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
My short list is Gary Crowton, Carl Torbush, Dave Clawson and Gerry DiNardo.
Everybody after that is a backup plan. Though I did consider hiring Torbush and DiNardo as co-head coaches and calling our attack “The Tor-Nardo.”
CLAW-FENSE!!!!
"I want anything wearing red and black to tear the head off anything that isn't." - Lewis Grizzard
I don't get Patterson over Harbaugh.
Patterson: No coaching experience in BCS conferences.
Harbaugh: Four (probably five by the time we hire him) years in a BCS conference.
Patterson: Virtually no connections to the NFL (tougher recruiting NFL bound kids)
Harbaugh: Played in the NFL, brother doing an excellent job with the Ravens.
Patterson: Disciple of Franchione — a mediocre coach, at best when at top tier BCS programs.
Harbaugh: Presumably models himself after Bo Schembechler. That’s a plus in my book.
Patterson: No connections to Georgia or the Southeast (as far as I can tell)
Harbaugh: Former teammate of Eric Zeier. Apparently has a house here in Georgia (according to another poster, I have no information on this)
Patterson: Already demonstrated he is likely to stay at TCU by turning down offers from BCS schools, including his alma matter.
Harbaugh: About the same. Turned down ND, Bills, Kansas, and probably USC.
Funny thing though, Patterson beat Stanford in 2007 and 2008. Hmmm. Still, I’d take a guy with BCS experience over one without every day of the week.
We have a coach, thank you.
Richt is our coach and I don’t, for one second, believe that anything changes when this season ends. I support Mark Richt, but acknowledge that the state of our football program is unacceptable. No apologies here. I have no idea where the issues on this truly team lie. I also don’t think it’s incredibly complex. There are some guys who just aren’t playing good football right now. Some of this, especially on defense, is the new scheme. Offensively, it’s boils down to a line that is average and playcalling that has been, by and large, insane. What I care about right now is supporting our coach because he deserves that. If we find ourselves in the same boat 12 months from now, I’ll be the first coyote to lead th howl. We aren’t there yet.
Senator Blutarsky linked to a very thought-provoking article yesterday, written by Bill Connelly. If you don’t have to time to read it, consider his summation:
The vultures are circling Richt, and if Georgia continues to lose this year, patience might not win out. Every losing coach can say that success is right around the corner, but for Georgia that seems true. If Aaron Murray matures, the backs stop fumbling when they sniff the end zone, and the defense continues to marinate in the new scheme, then things should turn around — with Richt or with somebody else.
I whole-heartedly believe a turnaround is closer than we think. Silly me: I have faith.
"If we score, we may win. If they never score, we'll never lose."
-Erk Russell
Dave I have to agree - a turnaround is closer than we think.
Based on the recruiting rankings (what else do we have?) UGA has sufficient talent. Assuming that is correct we only need coaching (mixed in with a few fortuitous bounces) to drag our butts out of the ditch. CMR has shown his ability in the past but he has made a few very poor hires and decisions recently.
by JRL on Oct 6, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
And on that note,
I’ve been reading that there have been some changes during practice. For at least Monday and Tuesday, (I can only assume Wednesday as well) the Dawgs were in full pads and full contact (I believe) for the first time in the CMR tenure. If our guys learn how to take a hit from our guys and our guys learn how to make the most effective tackles by tackling our guys, then things just might get better, even this week.
You aren't alone.
I’m so silly – I wore one of my new Georgia Pins on the plane home yesterday and to work today. The rest are in the box with the rest of the tshirts due to arrive here on Monday. (I refused to pay the baggage fees and I simply could not shove another thing in my suitcase. This of course means y’all are going to have to wait a few more days to get your t-shirts.)
I can bake like a demon.
To answer the question posed as a topic for this discussion:
And yes, I know that there are some who will disagree with me and have already said as much.
If Greg McGarity thinks he should replace Mark Richt as Head Coach of our football team, where should he turn? Simple. Turn around and take that thought straight to the trash bin with the other fleeting thoughts that aren’t thought out completely. I personally buy into the idea that we aren’t that far off. We haven’t been blown out, we have had some great stretches on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball although they haven’t been sustained for four quarters.
Should we be in this position? That’s a question for debate. I can see arguments for both sides, haven’t seen one thing that tilts me to one side or the other yet. The simple fact is that we can and I believe we will overcome this present unpleasantry.
He to whom the present is the only thing that is present, knows nothing of the age in which he lives.
Oscar Wilde
by EricBDawg on Oct 6, 2010 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
As I stated last week, we are losing better than we lost last year, as oxymoronic as that sounds.
So, I agree whole heartedly with your post, EricBDawg. I’m not a simple CMR supporter for sake of supporting him, I’m just not going to be rash. If I don’t see an improvement in the play of these Dawgs by end of the season, I may…may!…start entertaining the thought a coaching change is needed. But CMR has definitely earned the right to have “sufficient time” (as Vineyarddawg stated prior) to fix this quagmire.
If you're gonna do it, go ugly early.
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