The other shoe has dropped . . .
. . . and, to Orson's credit, it was not as bad as I had feared.
For the record, yes, I do assume a subhuman level of basic morality on the part of Urban Meyer, as I believe Orson also does when Tim Tebow's health is not a part of the equation.
To repeat (because it bears repeating), I hope Tim Tebow makes a complete recovery from his injury, not just because I believe Tebow to be a fine Christian young man in addition to being an outstanding football player, but because I am not so rabid in my fandom that I would ever celebrate a college student suffering an illness or injury, much less a serious one. If Tebow is held out of practices and games until, say, November 1 or thereabouts, that'd be all right with me, but I hope he returns to full health.
But do I believe this guy was offering inspiring expressions of team devotion between being led off the field in a daze, throwing up, and being placed in an ambulance? I do not.
Do I believe anyone who says Tebow said any such thing is either lying or mistaken? I do . . . and I read Orson's rejoinder to say that I should not have written what I wrote, not that he has any basis for believing that what I wrote was wrong.
Best wishes to Tebow as he bounces back from this jarring hit.
Go 'Dawgs!
over 2 years ago
T Kyle King
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other shoe
Sorry, TKK. We were willing to give you a pass on the earlier comment because Meyer is easily detestable and we’d like to think the worst of him whenever possible. But saying that you wouldn’t believe "anyone" who said Tebow spoke those words strains credulity mindbearing if it had been someone other than Meyer relaying the comment (say a team priest/minister or opposing coach checking on a downed opponent…would St. Richt lie to you about the matter?), you might just allow it as Tebow being Tebow.
Being concussed doesn’t mean you have to be unable to function at all. My GUESS is that he’ll have trouble remembering some things that went on at the time but there’s no reason he could not have come to with the game in his mind’s forefront (esp since the offending knee came from the rear … RIMSHOT.)
We could get nowhere trying to decide what Meyer heard or what you believe but sometimes wrong is wrong and the better person should have the grace and class to just admit it and move on.
As to the other shoe dropping, my Tigers are coming to visit this weekend and while I’ll admit that LSU looks about as deserving as Ole Miss at #4, I wouldn’t bet on or against either team just yet. I hear it will rain which will make it 4 out of 5 damp games for us this year. Best of luck to your dawgs and here’s to a injury free game.
While I make it a point to get my UGA coverage from your site, I’m especially eager this week. Since the ’03 double whipping we gave you, it’s been the biz end of the ugly stick for us courtesy of the Bulldogs.
I'm not sure I follow your argument
I disbelieve Urban Meyer’s story because the circumstances surrounding the events he describes render his tale implausible. I disbelieve him, in other words, because the story sounds dubious, not because the source seems untrustworthy.
Please bear in mind that, in my earlier posting, I cited the specific instance of Von Gammon, a beloved tragic figure in the history of Georgia football whose memory (and whose mother’s stirring words in the letter to the governor with which she saved the sport in the state, and likely elsewhere) is cherished by us even still. The story of his supposed statement as he was carried from the field has been repeated for over a century, including in the Bulldog “vault” book written by Loran Smith. I made it clear that I found that story equally incredible, because it doesn’t make sense in the context of the established facts. The fact that I have affection, admiration, and respect for all of the people and institutions involved doesn’t change the fact that the story doesn’t add up in light of what is known.
I regret it if you think it strains credulity for me to weigh the veracity of statements against the backdrop of the known facts rather than against the backdrop of my favorable or unfavorable opinion of the speaker. Personally, I think, and I think a lot of other people also think, it makes my opinion more credible, not less.
I likewise regret it if you believe it showed a lack of grace and class on my part to defend my position when I was accused of bad form by someone who does not appear to believe that my position is mistaken. I leave it to you to determine whether it was bad form, but I am disinclined to admit wrongness when even my detractors do not appear to believe I was incorrect.
Go 'Dawgs!
Nice lawyerin' but
the only established & known facts are that Baby Jesus got doinked; he woke up; Meyer attributed a satement to Tebow. End of story. The questioned is whether or not Meyer fibbed. No one doubts Tebow would spout such drivel. No doctor could honestly insist that it would impossible for Tebow to physically speak when he came to. What’s left is Meyer either lied or spoke the truth. My point is that your view of the incident is based on how you feel about Meyer and not someone you might find more palatable.
Walker’s record in jeopardy, Von Gammon under a bus, and now the high road not taken. A cloud hangs over Athens.
by Lilac-a-go-go on Sep 28, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Change a few words
Do you read much of Richard Dawkins work, sir? If so, let me know, I’ve been aching to start a Bulldawg fanclub.
Also, this isn’t meant as an insult (I know many who would take association with the Apostle of Darwin as such). That truly does sound like a decent argument for atheism….
blackertai
I haven’t read him but looked him up & he seems promising. Will give him a go. Touche on the bulldawg reference.
by Lilac-a-go-go on Sep 29, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Despite your posturing about "rabid fandom," Mr. King,
seizing on a rival’s injury to impugn his coach’s basic morality is a pretty low thing to do.
If decorum (and that meaningless term “class”) really meant more to you than getting in a shot at Urban Meyer, none of this would be under discussion.
I’m not against straight up, slavering hatred of rival teams/players/coaches, but spare us all the sanctimony about how far you are above the rest of us when you’re covered in mud.
Wow
That’s a pretty rough statement, right there. I think I continually see the Mayer doing a decent job of saying it’s not because of who Meyer is that he’s saying this. It does strain credulity to ask people to believe that the first thing someone coming out of the initial blackout of a concussion said revolved around holding a ball or not. If you’ve ever been around someone in that state, their ability to formulate complete sentences is often not A1OK for a few minutes, so asking us to believe another line in the legend of Tebow is pushing the line too far.
Plus, it’s not like the first thing that happened here was a post about how wonderful it is that Tebow’s hurt showed up, people! Let’s remember what is being discussed here.
I really don't get the argument here
Kyle doesn’t believe what Meyer said. I don’t really see that as something worth getting up in arms over. All school alliances and dislikes aside, I really find it improbable also. I’ve been unconscious before and I was in no way capable of saying anything other than “Huh? Wha?” immediately after. That was following something much less severe than getting tackled into an offensive lineman’s leg. Now, it could be that Tebow is made of sterner stuff than I am, but that still doesn’t change my mind. Just look at the picture of Tebow walking off the field that Dr. Saturday posted-I don’t find that to be the face of a man who just made a pithy quip that any Hollywood writer would be proud of and followed it up with a knowing wink. Agree or disagree with that, I can’t understand why so many people are taking this personally. Kyle stated an opinion. It’s really not a big deal.
Wow . . .
wangalusa. By the way, can you point out to me the part where he talked about how above the rest of us he is? I couldn’t find it.
Not an outright lie
I didn’t read TKK’s post as being a commentary on the evils of Urban Meyer. That said, it’s a relatively short leap to go from not believing the statement to making your lack of belief in the statement an indictment of a win-at-all-costs coach.
However, if Urban Meyer made the entire thing up, he should be ashamed of himself. It’s that kind of garbage machismo that gets young football players really hurt. As Orson pointed out, it will be a bad influence on youngsters if Tebow rushes back from the injury and he shouldn’t. Urban’s statement only furthers the attitude prevalent throughout football that the game matters more than the player’s health. It doesn’t.
If Meyer’s entire account is true, then Tim Tebow is an animal, albeit an animal with an intense one-track mind. If the first thing out of Tebow’s mouth was “Did I hold on to the ball,” Tebow is simply crazy. How about “is my head on straight, where am I, can I move all my extremities, what year is it.” Having been knocked out once or twice, those are the questions I asked myself. I am not Tim Tebow.
I think the most likely scenario is that Urban is simply stretching the truth here. I imagine Tebow eventually came around and cleared out some of the cobwebs, realized he just got pounded, and was relatively curious about whether he held on to the ball. My guess is that he asked that question at some point over on the sideline.
As for “It’s great to be a gator,” apart from being cheesy, I can see that as a reassuring statement you would make to concerned teamates as you were being examined/carted off. Again, my guess is this occurred on the sidelines, not in the seconds after coming-to.
If you read the reports of Meyer’s quotes (I haven’t bothered watching the press-conference), he seems to say that Tebow “only had one question for me.” This could mean the question was asked on the sideline, not the field. Who knows.
Bottom line: 1) I don’t think Urban Meyer is so evil as to pull this cheesiness out of thin air; 2) Tebow is a badass; 3) Spend some time and get healthy young man. Best of luck.
I'm completely with you on numbers 2 and 3
I’d like to emphasize that I never expressed doubt about the “Did I hold onto the ball?” question. That sounds completely plausible; examples have been given in several comment threads of athletes who sustained concussions on the field of play being focused on the moment just before impact while they struggled to clear their heads. I don’t doubt that part.
It’s the idea that, after asking that question, he received an answer, processed that answer, formulated a witty and inspiring reply, and winked. That’s a level of cognitive function that doesn’t seem plausible to me, coming from someone who had been totally dazed just seconds before, proceeded to throw up three times in a row, and had to be held overnight in a hospital.
I can even understand why Urban Meyer would say such a thing for reasons that aren’t pure evil; as a public relations move, it’s the equivalent of saying Ronald Reagan was joking with his doctors after the 1981 assassination attempt. (I have no idea whether that was true.) I just think it’s irresponsible, unnecessary, and deserving of note.
Go 'Dawgs!
Irresponsible if true?
I’m obviously in agreement that if this is a complete fabrication, Meyer’s actions are entirely irresponsible, reprehensible, and downright stupid. Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, the entirely implausible story is true. Is it still irresponsible to relay it to the masses? I think it’s a dangerous comment by Meyer regardless of whether he’s relaying fact or fiction.
by WindyCityDawg on Sep 28, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair point
It seemed to me so self-evidently false, I hadn’t thought about whether it would have been appropriate even if accurate, but you’re right . . . and that seems to be precisely the point Orson made previously.
Go 'Dawgs!
Which is less likely?
1) That Tebow comprehended the statement “It’s Great to Be a Florida Gator” (which is something that he has probably been hearing and saying often since childhood) and was able to wink and repeat most of the phrase back; or
2) That Meyer – seeing his star QB, face of the university, and favorite student athlete of all time lay motionless on the field before being helped off and then eventually taken by ambulance to the hospital for overnight observation – immediately thought to himself, “now, how can I spin this in a PR move that will help my legacy?”
Suggesting that Meyer made all this up in some sort of PR move may sound more crazy than a concussed kid playing cheerleader games with his coach.
Once again, that assumes a basic faith in Meyer's version of events
Personally, I think it’s kind of weird of him to say he responded that way at all. The response to the completely plausible question, “Did I hold onto the ball?” is, “Yeah, you did . . . now lie still while the trainers tend to you.”
Answering that question with, “It’s great to be a Florida Gator”—-which would be a non sequitur even to someone who didn’t have a concussion—-is bizarre, but, even if you believe that and even if you believe that Tebow semiconsciously aped the phrase (which I admit is more believable than the idea that he just came up with it out of the clear blue), the wink is what makes it so silly. (Maybe Urban said winced and a typo made it look like winked? Maybe?) The dude was dazed; he wasn’t winking at anybody, for crying out loud.
Finally, who said anything about “immediately”? I give the guy credit for caring that his star quarterback might be hurt, and for spending so much time at the hospital to make sure he was all right, but, for a guy who (by all accounts) is always recruiting to give that idea some thought between the time it happened and the time he spoke to the press isn’t even remotely crazy. It isn’t, “Now, how can I spin this in a PR move that will help my legacy?” . . . it’s, “Now, how can I spin this in a PR move that will help the image of the program and the player, and impress recruits, now that I know he’s going to be all right?”
If a Florida fan suggested that Urban Meyer had brilliantly come up with a way to take the minus of Tebow’s injury and turn it into a public relations plus, everyone in Gator Nation would be praising him for his genius, and you know it. The fact that a Georgia fan called BS is the only reason any of you find the suggestion objectionable.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Sep 29, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If it was a PR move, it would be a lousy one
I don’t think I’ve heard anyone (Gator fan or otherwise) say “wow – what a great moment that must have been on the field” or anything of that sort. I’m really not even sure what type of positive that could have been. How does his story help UF in any form? If it was conjured, I would trust our coach could come up with something better than that.
Now, all that being said – if you really wanted to call BS on Meyer, I think you simply chose the wrong story and quote. This is the one I would have challenged:
Meyer on not knowing if Tebow ever went unconscious after the hit by UK defensive end Taylor Wyndham: “No, I didn’t even ask.”
Why should we doubt Urban?
Isn’t he the same corch who said he would be at Bowling Green, Utah, etc., for MANY years?
Jevan Snead believes that Urban is an honest man....
….and that Tebow is a tremendous linebacker.
_______________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
100 cocktails, Prov
Well done, sir.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Sep 28, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the post and the comments
were appropriate. And I’ll take it to the next level. Meyer is the type of “corch” who would use a controversy over his comments as a way to get an edge, as a motivational ploy for his club, all the while beating his breast about all the terrible things people are saying about him, the terrible wrongs inflicted on him and his program, real or imagined.
Subhuman level of morality
“I do . . . and I read Orson’s rejoinder to say that I should not have written what I wrote, not that he has any basis for believing that what I wrote was wrong.”
The above is most ridiculous, absurd, and idiotic sentence ever written. You’re accusing someone of having a baseless opinion, when that opinion was written about your own baseless opinion.
You have absolutely no idea what Tebow said or did after he came to. The only person who has put a quote into the media is Meyer. There are no quotes from other coaches, players, or trainers to contradict what Meyer said. By definition, yours is a baseless opinion. It is your conjecture, based on an amateur understanding of concussions and blind hatred of Urban Meyer.
Do you believe that Tebow remembered the play call? If so, how is it so inconceivable that he remembered what “It’s great to be a Florida Gator” means, and supply an almost word for word response?
I wasn’t going to comment on your opinion, because it’s more than clear you’re inventing reasons to hate Meyer, but to suggest that Orson was somehow out of line for calling you on your own baseless opinion is moronic in a way I can’t begin to describe.
You made something up, Orson called you on it, and then accused Orson of making up the fact that you made something up.
It violates every standard of logic and reasoning humans have ever conceived. God help you, for an intelligent person to make such a blatant violation of logic requires thought, and indeed a subhuman level of morality.
Suggesting that I accused Orson of any such thing . . .
. . . reduces the sentence of mine you quoted to, at worst, the second most ridiculous, absurd, and idiotic sentence ever written.
Congratulations on breaking my record.
Go 'Dawgs!
You guys should focus on debating whats wrong with your team....
honestly who cares what he did or did not mutter Mr. King. More importantly what did you players mutter when they turned the ball over 3 times a game?
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Sep 30, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions
Probably something that could not be repeated in mixed company . . .
. . . but I take your point. In our defense, though, I think we’ve done a pretty good job of discussing both.
Like you, though, I’m ready to move on to a new topic.
Go 'Dawgs!
your
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Sep 30, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
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