I am curious to hear what you all think......
by RocketDawg on Aug 14, 2009 10:12 PM EDT
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PrintI just read an interesting tid bit over on David Hale's blog and wondered why this point was never raised in the whole "Let's move the WLOCP out of Jax to Atlanta or Dubuque or wherever as long as it's not in Florida" debate. 12 out of the last 15 years Florida has had an open date prior to our game, the one year when we had an open date an they did not (2007) we all know what happened. In other years when both teams have played the week prior we have split with them (1-1). So.....why is Damon not on the phone to the SEC offices and raising hell about the fact that we get an open date (or the option to have an open date) prior to the WLOCP once every 5 years or so and UF gets an open date practically every year with some exceptions. Either both teams should play a league game the week prior or both teams should have an open date with each schools respective AD making the call on whether to schedule a non conference game the week prior. When you have two teams of basically the same talent level and one team gets an extra week to get healthy and prepare then you can't expect to have a good result against them. FYI we have an open date this year and then not again until 2013.
My second question is this: Would you rather beat UF or win the SEC? In 2002, 2003, 2005 we did not beat the Turds but either won or played for the SEC Title. In 2004 and 2007 when we won we ended up not playing for the SEC title.
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Good question
Steve Spurrier is the one who recognized this first. For years, Florida played Auburn and then Georgia a week later. During that same period, Georgia played Florida and then Auburn a week later. The results of teams playing bruising back-to-back rivalry games were predictable: Florida did well against Auburn but tanked against Georgia; Georgia did well against Florida but tanked against Auburn. (I hate Auburn.)
The Evil Genius lobbied to get the schedule adjusted to give the Gators a breather between the games with the Plainsmen and the Bulldogs. (Now, of course, the divisional split and the switch in formats from two permanent opponents from the other division to one has ended the Florida-Auburn series as an annual affair.) While Coach Spurrier’s success against the Red and Black cannot simply be explained away upon the basis of that one change, it certainly helped him.
In short, you’re right . . . the venue argument is silly and it makes us look bad every time someone says something ridiculous like, “It’s hotter for us than for them.” The open date is far more significant. Fight the real enemy.
Regarding your closing question, it no longer applies. During the Ron Zook era and during Urban Meyer’s rookie growing pains (when Darth Visor could not more completely have been inside his head), we could afford to lose to the Gators and still count on them to drop enough games to let us win the East.
That day is past. Urban Meyer’s Florida squads will not beat Georgia but lose two conference games somewhere else. That will not happen. The road from Athens to Atlanta winds through Jacksonville and the only way out is through. For at least as long as Urban Meyer has a Gainesville mailing address, and probably long past that point, we need to operate from the assumption that the Eastern Division representative in the Georgia Dome will be Florida or a team that beat Florida.
Go 'Dawgs!
Although for the most part I agree.....
I would have to slightly disagree with you on one point. With the resurrection of the Alabama program and LSU consistantly turning out a top quality team there are scenarios where UF could lose 2 conference games per year however unlikely that may be. I am also curious to see when Jesus Junior graduates next year if there is a drop off at least for one or two seasons.
Ultimately if we are where we want to be the first weekend in December each year it is going to involve beating the Gators on a somewhat regular basis.
Anyway you can dig up the old “What do you expect from your team” post you did at the end of last year and repost it before the season starts? I think it would be interesting to see what we all posted as it realates to the upcoming season.
I hate Florida about as much as a person can hate anything
But I would definitely rather win the SEC title even if means losing to FU.
We’re not Tech fans. There are no moral victories or living vicariously through other programs for us.
by get swoll yunel on Aug 16, 2009 6:02 AM EDT reply actions
Regarding the schedule, I think Damon or even Dooley have already gotten some of thescheduling issues worked out.
This year we have a bye the week before (that makes 2 byes out of three years) and I believe we have another bye either next year or the year after that. I could be totally off base on that, but for some reason I remember looking at future UGA schedules and noticing that we had more byes pre-Jacksonville.
And while I think to some extent the bye matters, I believe at least during the 90s UF just had better coaching. I mean if you go back and look at our roster for the 97 and 98 seasons, we had two future pro hall of famers on the roster (Champ Bailey and Hines Ward) and a couple of other regular pro bowlers (Richard Seymour and Marcus Stroud). And while I know that to some extent becoming a great NFL player is partly luck (avoiding injuries, landing in a great scheme), it also requires talent. The talent was there for UGA to have won consistently irrespective of a bye week. It came down to coaching.
Future schedules
I’m not so sure that the schedule-makers have learned their lesson, after all.
Currently, in 2010 and 2011, we’re scheduled to play Mississippi State the week before Florida (away in ’10, home in ’11). The 2012 schedule currently has 3 open dates, two of which will be filled with non-conference games, and one of those potential bye weeks is the week before Florida. The pre-Florida dates in ’13 and ’14 are currently @LSU and @Arkansas.
So, that’s only 2 potential bye weeks before the World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party All-American Non-alcoholic Box Social over the next 6 years (counting this season). To be fair, we only have the leverage to move conference games around to the extent that they fit the opposing team’s schedule, and there are no nonconference games currently scheduled in that slot.
We could always negotiate with those SEC foes to try and move those dates… think Meyer’s former chief lieutenant Dan Mullen at Miss. St. would be amenable to such a discussion for the next 2 seasons?
by vineyarddawg on Aug 16, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
open dates
Playing Miss. St. is akin to an open date. Get your starters out at the end of the first quarter.
… like Florida did the last time they played in Starkville in 2004?
by vineyarddawg on Aug 17, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No - I was referring to this season, not 2004
and by the way, Ron Zook no longer coaches the Gators.
And Sylvester Croom . . .
. . . no longer coaches the Western Division Bulldogs.
Didn’t that Dan Mullen fellow do something once?
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Aug 18, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish Dan Mullen well
But he is 0-0 as a head coach and MSU isn’t the easiest place to start. Personally, I think MSU would have been much better off hiring Strong, but I am sure thankful they made the decision they did!
By the way:
As the head coach of the Florida Gators, Steve Spurrier was 0-2 in Starkville, as well.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Aug 18, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but the point is . . .
. . . that the Gators’ experience suggests that playing a game in Starkville is not, in fact, comparable to an open date.
With regard to the fact that neither Steve Spurrier nor Ron Zook is the head coach of the Florida football team, I would point out that, if those two men had not previously served in that post, Urban Meyer would not have that job now. Everything that has ever happened has brought us to this moment.
Go 'Dawgs!
One nice thing happened in Starkville
A loss sealed the fate of the Ron Zook exodus, and we have been feeling better ever since.
I was trying to be clever
I was following up on my “touché” comment above. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
We should probably at least until after this season
To see if the bye week even helps us at all. This rivalry might even out on its own regardless of who has bye weeks and who doesn’t. Thought I do agree it’s a bigger deal than location, the guaranteed Florida bye is obviously a thing of the past, and it will be couple years before we can judge whether we need to raise Cain or not.
Leaving insightful football commentary and analysis to other people since 2006.
"We should probably WAIT at least"
Leaving insightful football commentary and analysis to other people since 2006.
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