JoePa Would Like To Remind You That It's Not Polite To Snicker At Old People (And That The Big 10 Is Still Relevant).
by MaconDawg on May 6, 2009 4:30 PM EDT
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PrintYou can learn a lot from listening to the senior citizens in your life. Take my great uncle Skeet. This crotchety old World War II vet has taught me most of the important lessons which guide my daily journey, including:
- All other things being equal, fat people use more soap.
- That Richard Simmons fella may be a homosexual.
- Never threaten anyone wearing camoulflage.
- Men in suits who you don't know only pull up in your driveway to sell things and serve papers. Either way, you probably shouldn't answer the door.
- Never let a bald barber cut your hair.
- The Big Ten could return to national football prominence if it would just add Syracuse or Pitt and play a conference championship game in Indianapolis.
Wait, that last one wasn't Uncle Skeet. No, it was Penn State coach Joe Paterno, who's been saying for a while now that the Big Ten should add another team (which would, in fact, give it 12 total). This would allow the conference to play a championship game, which JoePa reasons would increase the profile of the conference and help get it into the national championship discussion.
Of course, Ohio State is in the Big Ten and they're annually in the BCS discussion. At least they were until they began demonstrating the kind of big game incompetence that would make Bob Stoops blush. But let's not quibble over the fine print. JoePa says that he's even broached the subject with the Big Ten powers that be, but the response was not what he'd hoped for:
"You know, it's a conference that's dominated by a couple of people. If I start talking, they're polite, but they snicker. They don't know I know they're snickering, but they're polite."
Jim Delaney, sir, why do you hate the aged? Besides being impolite, in this instance, you could lose your brain over it. It's just not worth it, man. And how could adding the runaway juggernaut that is Syracuse football to the Big Ten be a bad thing?
If it's really that important, I have a couple of suggestions for Delaney and Paterno. Some of these have been mentioned in the past, though a couple of them are (I think) MaconDawg originals. Guys, if you really want to bring Big Ten kicking and screaming into the twenty-first century (which I will not concede is necessarily a good thing), then I suggest the following:
- Try to steal Louisville or West Virginia from the Big East. Either would be better than Syracuse for the foreseeable future. Even the Kragthorpian horse latitudes into which the Cardinals appear to be descending would be better than whatever Doug Marrone has in store for the Orangemen. Not because I don't have confidence in Marrone. Just because he's about to undertake the football equivalent of turning Newark into Paris. And, from a purely ethnographic perspective, West Virginia (link safe for work, but not really safe, if you catch my drift . . .) is to Turkish Bulgaria as Ohio State is to Turkey. The border between them is but a flimsy geopolitical construct. Their burning couches and coolers filled with the unmentionable are indistinguishable to us outsiders.
- Convince Missouri to leave the Big 12. I think we all know that as long as Texas and Oklahoma continue to play football (a state of affairs which I presume will continue at least as long as humans roam the Earth, and longer if the Mars colonies are at least 120 yards long) Missouri will not be a dominant power in the Big 12. Missourians are, as a class, far too sane and decent for it. And as an SEC football fan, believe me, I sometimes envy them. But Columbia, Missouri is no further from the epicenter of the Big Ten than Minneapolis or Iowa City. And an Illinois/Missouri football rivalry, perhaps alternating between Chicago and St. Louis, would be at least 20% better than a sharp stick in the eye.
- Snag Boston College from the ACC. I still don't understand why they're there in the first place. While Madison, Wisconsin is not exactly contiguous to Boston, neither are Miami and Tallahassee. And BC is probably the NCAA's last best hope to convince people in the northeast to actually care about college football. At least when the Sox aren't playing. Either way, it would get the conference some play inside the Boston market. Downside? Bob Ryan might start paying attention to your conference. No one wants that.
- Poach Virginia from the ACC. There's really no logical reason for this one, only my selfish desire to witness Wahoo fans trekking into Columbus for a football game. It would be like that movie The Descent, only with more navy and orange Brooks Brothers bowties.
- Help Rich Rodriguez bring Michigan football off life support. If Michigan suffers another 3-9 season (with losses to the likes of Toledo and Northwestern) it becomes less marketable. That's bad for the Big Ten's profile. Though probably not as bad as having Syracuse as a member.
I'm sure the Big Ten folks would appreciate your suggestions in the comments. Anybody else got any ideas?
Until later . . .
Go 'Dawgs!
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Big What?
As I eluded to over on Doc Sat’s page, should we call it the Big 11 if they went to 12 teams?
by knowshon loves legos on May 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
I would say Big 10+2...
… since I currently say Big 10+1.
I think adding Pitt would be more advantageous for Penn State than for the conference, since Pitt is one of PSU’s biggest historical rivals, and they haven’t played much since the fictional Lions joined the Big 10+1. Pitt has history, but their current program is mediocre at best, and doesn’t really look likely to get much better soon. (At least, not as long as they still have the ’stache at the helm.)
Not only that, but the Big 10 trumpets its academic standards now that they suck on the field, and Pitt doesn’t fit into that mold, either.
Pitt is a quality academic school
They are the academic peer to Ohio State or UGA. They are ranked ahead of several Big 10 schools.
by Paulwesterdawg on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I stand corrected
I had no idea Pitt was a respected school academically. When I think of great academic institutions in Pittsburgh, I usually think of only Carnegie Mellon.
by vineyarddawg on May 7, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Louisville or Pitt
would make the most geographic sense, but at witnessed by BC being 500 miles away from their closest conference competitor, common sense doesn’t really matter. Add a team, split into divisions, have a conference championship game the Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving at Soldier Field…..THAT would be awesome. It will also NEVER happen.
Good point UGAMatt . . .
While JoePa’s response was more concerned with the northeastern quadrent of the conference, I think their best avenues for expansion are to the west and south.
All good points
I would add, though, that Pitt appears to be somewhat akin to Ole Miss with stranger accents, worse scenery, and much, much, much uglier women.
Ed Orgeron proved to be one of the many, many coaches who could recruit ‘em, but couldn’t win with ’em, so he lost games at an alarming clip yet left the cupboard stocked for the next guy. (I believe the technical term for doing this to a program is “Zookification.”)
Match the right replacement with all the talent that is stockpiled there, and good things will happen. Look at all the good press the Rebels are getting this offseason after their dramatic turnaround in 2008. While it’s doubtful Mississippi will be winning any conference crowns anytime soon, the Rebs have enough history and tradition to be able to put their recent downcycle (however dismal) behind them.
So it is with the Panthers, whose achievements with Tony Dorsett and Dan Marino we in Bulldog Nation can confirm from personal experience. Replace Dave Wannstedt with a winner and that program has the heritage and the built-in recruiting base to succeed.
That may or may not make them a good fit for the Big Ten (I tend to think it makes more sense for Penn State to move to the Big East, home of its historic rivals, than for Pitt to move to the Big Ten), but Pitt, like Ole Miss, can be an up-and-coming program as soon as they ditch the coach who brought in the talent with which the next guy will win.
Honestly, though, I think the real reason Big Ten expansion will never happen is that there’s no way to call a twelve-team league the Big Ten (and no way to fit a cutesy “12” into the logo) and the name “Big 12” is already taken. They could, of course, do a Big 12-Big 10 showdown, No. 1 v. No. 1 through No. 12 v. No. 12, with the winner taking the naming rights, but, honestly, who thinks the Big 12 wouldn’t clean house?
Go 'Dawgs!
Also, another piece of advice based on experience . . .
. . . which was told to me by College Buddy, who was repeating what a lifelong friend of his had told him:
“Never cook bacon naked.”
Go 'Dawgs!
Big 10 wouldnt take West Virgina because the fanbase would not meet the high standards required of people who support the Big 10 teams. Its a Big 10 thing: something we wouldn’t know about because we are not intelligent or classy enough. W. Va fans fit right in with our fan base: Toothless, jean short wearing (wait thats just us, my B), inbred hicks. I mean, come on, we werent smart enough to make every single game some sort of trophy game.
I agree with Kyle, Pitt is the obvious choice. They just seem to have that Big 10 feel about them, although they change their uniforms way too frequently. They probably would have to go to some sort of bland uni with a small logo in order to keep with the Big 10 creativity standards. They can reward the winner of their game with Penn State the “Quaker Stick” or the “Liberty Ball.”
If this happened, I would be very interested in how they aligned the divisions. Would they go North/South ir East/West…This is probably how each would shape out:
North-Wisc, Minn, Mich, Mich St, NW, ILL
South-Purdue, Ind, THE osu, Penn St, Pitt, Iowa
East-Pitt, Penn St, THE osu, Mich, Mich St, Ind
West-Wisc, Minn, NW, Ill, Iowa, Purdue
They would probably go North/South to keep THE osu and Michigan in separate divisions.
Speaking of divisions, does it really have to be directional?? I mean all this garbage about the BIg 12 could have been avoided last year if they would just do the practical thing and realign the freakin divisions. I mean come on: OK, Tx, Tx Tech, A&M, & Ok St in the same division???? Does the directional thing really matter that much? Its not like the Falcons when they were playing in the NFC West, and the Arizona Cardinals playing in the East.
I sincerely hope Rece Davis says Penn State has "busted out the Quaker Stick" on someone
I’m pretty sure they’d want to go East/West, for two reasons:
1. No one in the Big Ten would want to be in a division dubbed “South,” just as no S.E.C. team would want to be in a division named “North.” Imagine Brian Cook’s vitriol if the Ohio State University became a “Southern” school.
2. The only way to keep the Michigan-Ohio State game at the end of the regular season is to have the Buckeyes and the Wolverines in the same division. If they were in opposite divisions, playing the game in late November could mean back-to-back Michigan-Ohio State games on consecutive weekends. The only solutions would be to (a) put them in different divisions and play the game earlier in the year (a la Florida State-Miami on Labor Day night) or (b) put them in the same division and let the final regular-season matchup be a de facto division championship game most years. The latter clearly is more likely to happen.
Go 'Dawgs!
I blame NBC
Notre Dame is by far the most logical fit — they have tradition (more than at least 8 of the current Big 10leven), they have academics, and look at a map! The geographic center of Big Ten territory can’t be more than an hour outside of South Bend. One of these days, the other 119 FBS teams are going to get tired of ND getting special treatment and they’ll have to join up with either the Big Ten or the Big East (on a full-time basis). Get while the gettin’s good, Domers.
I do like the Penn State to the Big East idea, though. PSU never made sense for the Big Ten’s compact Midwest footprint, it would instantly bump up the Big East’s credibility at a time when it sorely needs it, and it would be fun to watch JoePa and Delaney play a game of chicken (“either you bring in Pitt or I’m leaving!”). Annnnd…. imagine a Big East with Penn State and Notre Dame, and you’ve got a legit conference. Just bring in Army and Navy (or Buffalo, or Troy…) and stage yourself a little championship game at the Meadowlands while you’re at it. Cha-ching!
Like NMdawg, I think ND should have been the Big 10’s choice a long time ago, but there was no way it was going to happen back then.
I am beginning to think like Kyle that the Big East should try to pry PSU from the Big 10 and try to bolster its ranks.
However, one team I haven’t heard mentioned that I would think should at least be consider as much as Louisville is Cincinnati.
ND...
If the Big East were to actually become a football conference instead of a 16 team b-ball conference that plays football, ND would make great sense there. Bring Navy, BC, Memphis and ND into the Big East for football. Then send Marquette, G’Town, Nova, DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns off to join Xavier, Dayton, UMass, St. Joes, and URI. You’d have two more logically constructed / manageable b-ball conferences and one better football league.
But no one asked me.
by Paulwesterdawg on May 7, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Several more thoughts...
1. “Tell her she’s right.” Even if she isn’t and even if you don’t believe it. It’s a good rule, but not as fool proof as Kyle’s suggestion to not cook bacon naked.
2. Boston College should return to the Big East. They are in the entirely wrong league. Over the long term, it will be their undoing. Rivalries are driven by geography not TV media markets.
3. Geographically and academically, Pitt makes more sense than anyone else. They are 3 hours from Columbus and 4+ hours from Ann Arbor. Syracuse is 8 hours from Ann Arbor (7.5 if you’re willing to drive thru Canada to get there), and that’s the closest B10 city to them. Although, the Missouri thing is exceptionally intriguing.
4. Lville is basically a commuter school academically. They are known as a Tier 3 school. US News ranks the top 262 colleges. To be ranked in Tier 3, you need to fall below the Top 130. That means they are a peer to Mississippi State, USF and UCF academically. There are no Tier 3 academic Big 10 schools currently. Not even Mich St.
PWD
Yeah, no naked bacon . . .
cooking is definitely “Man Law” material.
And I thought fleetingly of Notre Dame in writing this post. But my understanding is that they’ve always rebuffed this possibility in the past because of the NBC TV deal. And I don’t blame them, because any deal they strike with Peacock TV is bound to be better than whatever fubared escapade Delaney & crew would get them into.
One more that popped into my mind, should they ever really want to go all left field with expansion: Miami of Ohio. Great school academically(Tier 1, according to US News). Rising athletic prominence, with great tradition (they like to call it “The Cradle of Coaches”). While fairly small, its enrollment (approximately 16,000) is actually a little higher than Northwestern’s, and it would also probably grow simply by virtue of inclusion in the Big Ten and the publicity that comes with that. But I still vote for Missouri, mostly to see them play conference games against Illinois and Iowa every year.
Err...
2. You’re right. The problem is that since the ACC lacks a good option to replace them with (the best non-BCS schools from a football perspective in ACC country are ECU and UCF, neither of which are really the kind of schools the ACC considers peers).
3. State College is somewhat closer to Syracuse than Ann Arbor, and Columbus is about the same distance.
But as a Big East guy, the school I’m most worried about the Big Ten snapping up is Rutgers. It’s a huge state school, an academic peer of the better Big Ten schools, a football program on the rise (if anyone managaes to dominate the Big East, it’ll be Rutgers, because if they get a lock on NJ recruiting — and they’re heading that way — they’ll own the conference), and a huge TV market.
As a Syracuse guy, I’m not worried about the Big Ten snapping up us, because it probably won’t happen, and because I’m not happy with the Big East as presently configured, and would like to be able to nag my relatives when we beat Ohio State in basketball every year.
Here's an idea.
- Notre Dame joins the Big 10.
- The Big East and the Big 10 swap Penn State and West Virginia.
This will allow the Big 10 to keep their current geographical footprint basically intact, group Penn State with more of its historical rivals, and allow the Big East to keep its current size of 8 teams.
One of the wrinkles that few people consider when trying to enlarge the Big East is that the Big East is not an 8-team conference. It’s a 16-team conference, with only 8 members playing football at the FBS/I-A level. Not only that, but the Big East is to basketball what the SEC is to virtually every other sport. It’s highly unlikely that Mike Tranghese and his charges would even consider expanding the number of football members, since that would mean also changing the basketball side of the conference in some way. It’s far more likely that they would consider swapping teams with the Big 10, which, in the case of Penn State, makes a great deal of sense to me.
Beaten to the punch
I’m really good at getting beaten to the punch recently by Kyle and Paul Westerdawg. Oh well, at least, as they say, great minds think alike.
by vineyarddawg on May 7, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Others ahve posted why that won't work
My idea for a swap is one that helps the Big East and ACC solve problems (but needs a bit of help from the SEC to make it work), but not the Big Ten.
Three-way swap -
South Florida to the SEC
South Carolina (back) to the ACC
Boston College (back) to the Big East
USF gets money and gets SEC fans to admit, no, insist, that they’re better than FSU and Miami now.
South Carolina gets to win the ACC in football.
And BC gets its traditional rivalries back and saves a lot of money on travel.
I'm not agreeing to any swap with the A.C.C. . . .
. . . that doesn’t involve us getting Clemson.
Go 'Dawgs!
I'm trying to improve georgraphic logic...
… not reduce it :).
Granted, universally applying that sort of thing would end SU-Georgetown basketball games, but we could always play them out of conference…
Good point
Rather than going with geography, I was going with philosophy. As an institution and as a fan base, Clemson is much more akin to its S.E.C. brethren than its A.C.C. cohorts.
What’s more S.E.C. than the Tigers who play in Death Valley, or the Tigers who wear orange and used to be coached by John Heisman, or a school that’s been on probation that frequently, or a school whose coaching tree frequently traces back to Alabama (Frank Howard, Charley Pell, Danny Ford, Dabo Swinney), Arkansas (Ken Hatfield), Auburn (Walter Riggs), and Vanderbilt (Josh Cody, Jess Neely)?
Besides, it’s about an hour’s drive from the Classic City to Fort Hill, and it’s interstate all the way. That’s about as geographically coherent as you can get!
Go 'Dawgs!
Clemson
Clemson also is closer to what an SEC school was supposed to be, originally, than South Carolina: west of the Appalachians.
I do like all this talk of BC going back to the Big East. The ACC is supposed to be a Southern conference. I suppose that would mean Miami isn’t a good fit, either.
And there’s no way Syracuse or Rutgers belong in the Big 10. The Big 10 is a Midwest conference. Arguments can be made for Louisville and Pittsburgh (border towns with heavy Midwestern flavors to their cultures).
Apparently this discussion is also going on . . .
over at SB Nation’s Ohio State Blog, We Will Always Have Tempe. Some of those tOSU partisans also seem intrigued by this Missouri to the Big Ten idea, and have some other interesting thoughts.
There’s also an MS Paint depiction of Joe Paterno that you must see, and one of Charlie Weis that you really don’t want to see if you’re reading this while eating lunch. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
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