Kyle Gets Contrary: Why Mark Richt is Wrong About Moving the Georgia-Florida Game
I trust it goes without saying that I am a huge Mark Richt fan. I believe he is, and history will bear him out to be, the best head football coach my alma mater has ever had. However, this does not make him perfect, and there are certain subjects about which I respectfully disagree with Coach Richt. Inasmuch as I intend to address one such subject, it is time to introduce the latest installment of the popular series of postings in which I get contrary.
Senator Blutarsky thought Coach Richt was kidding, and I hope he’s right, but this is what Coach Richt said:
I don’t know what’s going to happen. But when people ask me the question, "Do you really think [Jacksonville] is a neutral site?", I say, "No, it’s not neutral." When you play in the state of Florida every year –- we fly, they drive; it’s hotter for us, it’s cooler for them. It’s played in a stadium that [used to be called] the Gator Bowl. But what the heck? If nothing else, we’ll make Jacksonville pay more to keep it there. . . . I wouldn’t feel bad having a "neutral site" game in Georgia – in the Georgia Dome.
In Coach Richt’s defense, he was speaking to the Columbus Bulldog Club, so it’s entirely possible he was cutting up with the home folks. I know quite well from my professional life as a lawyer that reading a transcript is by no means the same thing as hearing the words as they are spoken. Vocal inflections, facial expressions, and hand gestures are missing, and these form an integral part of human communication. If Coach Richt was joking, and he may have been, then it’s the fault of those of us who read his remarks but did not hear them for failing to get the joke.
However, since none of the other answers quoted in Tim Tucker’s article sounded like they were said in jest, and since the question whether to keep the Florida game in Jacksonville is a divisive one in Bulldog Nation, and since Coach Richt is on record as wanting to move the World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party from the Gateway City, I am operating from the understanding that the remarks were intended sincerely and that, therefore, C&F is right when he writes:
With all due respect to Mark Richt, this has got to be the lamest reason for moving the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party Cocktail Party Cocktail Party away from Jacksonville that C&F has ever heard. For one thing, it's factually untrue -- the temperature in Jacksonville is precisely the same for both teams. Funny how that works. Second, the game is played in late October or early November. It's not usually snowing in Jacksonville that time of the year, but it's usually not blazing hot, either. Is it relatively cooler for Florida players than Georgia players? Perhaps. But -- let's be serious.
While I left a comment in response, the point deserves amplification, so I wanted to iterate what I wrote there and add an extra note or two, as well:
1. It’s not played in a stadium that used to be called the Gator Bowl. The last Georgia-Florida game to be played in the Gator Bowl was in 1993. I know; I was there, sitting in the miserable drizzle while the rain ran down the grooves of the old metal bleachers and seeped up through the seat of my pants until I was drenched from the bottom up rather than from the top down. The old Gator Bowl was built in the late 1940s and replaced Fairfield Stadium. While the 1994 demolition did not take down the old venue in its entirety, the west upper deck added in the early 1980s is the only part of the Gator Bowl that remains in the new N.F.L. arena called Jacksonville Municipal Stadium (nee Alltel Stadium).
For what it’s worth, Cale Conley’s War Between the States reports that Georgia played Florida in the stadium known as the Gator Bowl from 1948 to 1993, a span during which the Bulldogs went 23-22-1 against the Saurians. The Red and Black have gone 3-10 against the Orange and Blue in Jacksonville since the Gator Bowl was demolished. Maybe, just maybe, having the name "Gator Bowl" on the building didn’t have much to do with which team won.
2. The fact that we fly and they drive undercuts one of the most frequently-asserted arguments against keeping the game in Jacksonville. When we discussed the Cocktail Party in a recent installment in this series, Year2 made these reasonable points against the canard that distance is significant:
A) Both teams spend the night before in a hotel
B) 17-21 years olds aren’t affected in the least by a 6 hour bus ride
C) There are plenty of Georgia fans in Jacksonville (and it’s close to all the South Georgia Bulldogs)
D) The stadium is split right down the middle 50/50
E) The stadium is all of 30 miles from Georgia soil
It’s as close to a true neutral site as there is in college football. The only "advantage" Florida has is that its team bus ride is shorter.
To those arguments, I responded:
All good points, but I’m not even sure about the bus ride
Don’t the ’Dawgs fly from Athens to Jacksonville?
I’m pretty sure they do, and, if they don’t, we need to quit complaining about the venue and start asking why one of the most profitable athletic departments in America doesn’t pony up for a charter flight.
Coach Richt has answered my question: Georgia flies and Florida rides. The argument that our team has a longer bus trip to take is false. One of the central tenets of the anti-Jacksonville position has been refuted by the testimony of the most highly-placed proponent of moving the game.
3. It isn’t cooler for the Gators, not even relatively. It gets plenty hot and humid in the Classic City, so I’m not buying that Bulldogs who didn’t wilt on the day of an early afternoon kickoff in Athens in late August are going to wilt on the day of a mid-afternoon kickoff in Jacksonville in early November.
Even if we assume (falsely) that North Georgians can’t take the heat, though, that shouldn’t affect such Red and Black players as these:
- Bryan Evans (Jacksonville, Fla.)
- Aaron Murray (Tampa, Fla.)
- Bacarri Rambo (Donalsonville, Ga.)
- John Knox (Statesboro, Ga.)
- Vance Cuff (Moultrie, Ga.)
- Israel Troupe (Tifton, Ga.)
- Carlton Thomas (Frostproof, Fla.)
- Kalvin Daniels (Eastman, Ga.)
- Nick Williams (Bainbridge, Ga.)
- Justin Houston (Statesboro, Ga.)
- Shaun Chapas (St. Augustine, Fla.)
- Darryl Gamble (Bainbridge, Ga.)
- Jeremy Longo (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.)
- Tanner Strickland (Nashville, Ga.)
- Geno Atkins (Pembroke Pines, Fla.)
- Blair Walsh (Boca Raton, Fla.)
- Kevin Perez (Miami, Fla.)
- Justin Anderson (Ocilla, Ga.)
- Michael Moore (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.)
- DeAngelo Tyson (Statesboro, Ga.)
- Jeff Owens (Sunrise, Fla.)
Once again, it may be the case that Senator Blutarsky is right and Coach Richt was just kidding. However, even if he was, his words will be taken seriously by an element of the Georgia fan base which I believe to be devoted and well-meaning, but with whom I must respectfully and vehemently disagree. I believe there are arguments for moving the Georgia-Florida game from Jacksonville which, while still falling short of sufficiency, nevertheless are better than these. Coach Richt is a great coach and a good man who is right about many, many things, but, if he intended these points to be taken seriously, he is, in this instance, quite wrong.
Go ‘Dawgs!
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19 comments
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Comments
Being contrary
I think the game should stay in Jacksonville, but I don’t buy a couple of your counters.
1. It is, in fact played in a stadium that used to be called the Gator Bowl. Furthermore, it’s played in a stadium that still is called the Gator Bowl by many, many people, including me. That it’s name might be something else doesn’t change what it’s called. I’m one of those guys with a strange combination of an insistence on being correct and a stubbornness for old-fashioned names. It’s Forrest Avenue, not Ralph McGill (and Stewart, not Metropolitan). I think I know where Bobby Dodd Stadium is — it’s by Grant Field, right? I don’t care that Emory changed the name of the hospital down the street: it’s still Crawford Long to me. It’s the Peach Bowl, not the Chick-fil-A Bowl. (I confess, however, that I have modernized to the point where I call it the Citrus Bowl.)
I do agree that the name of the stadium or what it’s called or was once called isn’t a factor worth considering.
3. That it might be hotter and more humid in Athens in August or September or that some of our players are from places swampier than Jacksonville isn’t the point, as I understand it. That point (with which I disagree, but for different reasons than those you offered) is that our bodies tend to acclimate over time. It’s the relatively sudden change in temperature and humidity that’s the problem (for those inclined to think it’s a problem). Having spent one’s childhood in Moultrie or having spent a few weeks in Athens in August has no bearing on the significance of being plucked from one environment in late October or early November and dropped in another. Speaking from experience as a native Georgian relatively accustomed to heat and humidity, the environment of my upbringing does nothing to lessen the shock felt when stepping off of a plane in Atlanta in July after having spent a couple of weeks in northern California. I am not, however, sold on the idea that Athens to Jacksonville is all that big of a deal.
Just following the theme.
by NCT on May 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I may need to reread the Richt's comments...
…but I thought he was talking about heat in a figurative sense.
Sic 'em Dawgs
by ClassicCityDawg on May 12, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point vis-a-vis historic names . . .
. . . but there is an important difference. Ralph McGill is the same road as Forrest Avenue. Bobby Dodd Stadium is the same venue as Grant Field. The last Peach Bowl was played in the same building as the first Chick-fil-A Bowl.
However, the Gator Bowl was torn down to make room for Jacksonville Municipal Stadium. It’s one thing to claim that taking down one street sign and replacing it with another doesn’t change the fundamental nature of the street, which remains the same. The building called the Gator Bowl was demolished and is no more. The structure now standing where the Gator Bowl once stood has never been named the Gator Bowl.
Arguing that Alltel Stadium was to Jacksonville Municipal as Metropolitan is to Stewart is to analogize like to like, but, when you tear down one edifice and replace it with a new (and substantially different) one, you have a new building. Turner Field isn’t Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium with an updated moniker; it’s a new ballpark.
You make a fair point regarding the heat, however.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on May 12, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A persuasive argument regarding the name
I appreciate that the Gator Bowl was demolished and that the Forrest-to-McGill is not a clean analogy. But yours is an argument for why people shouldn’t call the stadium the Gator Bowl. It doesn’t change the fact that people do call it the Gator Bowl, correctly or not – defensibly or not.
Again, I’m just being contrary. I suspect the wiring in my brain that prompts me to say, “Stewart Avenue — or whatever it is they’re calling it now” (when I know damn well what they’re calling it now), is the same as that which pushes “Gator Bowl” out of my mouth (and the same as that which will argue with you if you refer to Lenox Mall or Christ the King as being in Buckhead).
by NCT on May 13, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a few things...
I’ve already stated that I don’t think Jacksonville is the problem. Had we won the close games of ‘92 or ’02/’03, I doubt we would even be talking about this. The problem is that for the better part of two decades our player have psyched themselves out before the game even started. I’m of the school of thought that playing in front of a home crowd every other year would help them play a little bit looser. Can you imagine how incredible the atmosphere at Sanford Stadium would be if we were to beat Florida at home?
Aside from that, I have a couple of other selfish reasons for wanting a home-and-home:
-I’m a student, and therefore too broke/cheap to book a hotel near Jacksonville.
-I don’t want to have to deal with Gator fans in any large concentration. I have never met a Gator fan who was a genuinely good person. I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I haven’t met them if there are.
-I’m not particularly fond of the River City.
Sic 'em Dawgs
by ClassicCityDawg on May 12, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good people
There’s plenty of good Gators out there – you should get out more.
by skigator93 on May 12, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't doubt it...
Heck, Tebow is good fella’ from what I’ve seen. However, you have to consider that I live in Athens, and I grew up in North Georgia. As a result, I’ve only run into about 10-15 die hard Gators. All of them were crass, annoying and/or downright mean.
Sic 'em Dawgs
by ClassicCityDawg on May 12, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with skigator93
One of the things that makes the atmosphere in Jacksonville so special is the fact that fans of both teams interact side-by-side, and, for the most part, it’s cordial.
Yes, the Gator fan base is, as a whole, the second-most obnoxious in the conference, but we’re third, and neither of us is even remotely close to being as obnoxious as the Auburn fan base. (Yes, there are exceptions even to that rule, but I hate Auburn.)
Also, in terms of the quality of opposing fans who comment regularly here at Dawg Sports, Alabama fans and Florida fans clearly are neck-and-neck as the most cordial and reasonable, although, admittedly, we are getting small sample sizes of both.
This is why one of my first two questions to any Georgia fan who wants to see the game moved from Jacksonville is this: “Have you ever been to a game there?” Trust me; it’s worth the trip.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on May 12, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cocktail Party
Despite what CBS and the SEC want to call it, it will always be known as the World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party. That is why the game is so great. Friday night everyone is feeling good and ribbing each other (usually in a good natured manner) about the upcoming game. We’ve all fought through the Saturday morning hangover to get down to the stadium for tailgating and more jawing at the other team’s fans….rolling over stuffed bulldogs or gators on the way…..
I wouldn’t want to lose that atmosphere. Whenever the best rivalries are discussed – this one is always brought up as one of the biggest. If it became a campus and campus game – we would lose that element. It would become just another great conference game….just like Alabama/Tennessee or Nebraska/Kansas.
You can make arguments over the venue being unfair, but there is nothing like walking into that stadium and seeing 1/2 red and black and 1/2 orange and blue – everyone fired up with pregame excitement and bordering on a 2-sided frenzy. It’s one of the greatest scenes in college football – and that is saying a lot.
by skigator93 on May 13, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
skigator,
I’ll definitely agree with you there. Going into the stadium and seeing it split directly down the middle with team colors is an amazing sight. I took a friend who goes to Tennessee this year and he was amazed at the way the line literally splits the stadium in half. That is definitely an aspect that would be missed if the game were moved to home and home.
by hailtogeorgia on May 14, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on down to the "Big City"
Atlanta is home to the largest Gator club outside the State of Florida, and while there are always a few idiots who work to spoil the reputation of the bunch, you’d find plenty of good folks clad in orange and blue around here.
by skigator93 on May 13, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incredible atmosphere
Yes, I can imagine how incredible the atmosphere at Sanford Stadium would be if we were to beat Florida at home. I don’t have to imagine how incredible the atmosphere would be in Jax, though, because I’ve experienced it a few times. It’s pretty damn special (and some of those occasions I experienced were back when winning in Jax wasn’t such a rare thing).
by NCT on May 13, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, Kyle?
This isn’t up to your usual high bar of persuasive writing.
1. It shares the footprint, and some of the same stands, as the old ‘Gator Bowl’. It’s the same place. C’mon.
2. I think this is a moot point as far as the teams are concerned. It makes a bigger difference in average travel time for the fanbases.
3. Gainesville, FL is a land-locked swamphole. For them, Jacksonville is cooler, as it is close to the St. John’s River. Come late October, Athens, GA is usually dipping down into the lower 50’s at night. Jacksonville is definitely warmer than that. Even if you think CMR was speaking tongue-in-cheek (which I do), there is some factual basis for what he says.
The bottom line is that the longer UGA holds on to its stubborn “we can’t be cowards and run” MO, we will lose more than 50% of our games in Duval County. Steve Spurrier woke that sleeping giant up, and it’s not going back to rest in the foreseeable future.
by Hobnail_Boot on May 13, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"I think your argument is specious..."
“That’s fine, I think your tie is ugly….”
I’m as in favor of moving the game to home and home as anyone, but Richt’s argument here(if he was being serious), is lame. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to move the game without having to resort to the weather as evidence of the inherent advantages Florida enjoys in the City to Busy to Bathe.
And Kyle, while Florida’s intelligent, blogging fans may be gracious and humble, the sidewalk alumni, gold-chain wearing, Camero crashhelmet sporting, jort clad masses that wash up at the WLOCP are EASILY the most insufferable in the SEC—rivaled only by the completely hammered and legitimately scary LSU crew.
by UgaMatt on May 13, 2009 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 about UF fans. They are definitely #1 on that list to me, followed closely by UT.
by The ArchDawg on May 13, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admit they're No. 2 . . .
. . . but, seriously, if you don’t think Auburn fans are the most obnoxious by a wide margin, you haven’t met enough Auburn fans. It’s not close.
I hate Auburn.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on May 13, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those Camero-driving fellows you mention....
aren’t really Gator fans. They are local Jacksonville punks who are just riding the bandwagon. Next time UGA puts together a cocktail winning streak, a lot of those guys will be wearing red and black.
by skigator93 on May 13, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about SSI
SSI revolves around GA/FL week. The condos, rental homes and resturants all revolve around GA/FL as a source to get their main income. I believe I heard someone at the Red Barn (best NY Strip by the way) say that 50% of their business comes from the last week in October.
I would hate to see SSI turn into Tybee…
The game results have nothing to do with venue. In 2004 when David Greene carved up the bad guys it didn’t matter it was played in Jax. In 2007, the fact that Knoshon ran through the Florida D has nothing to do with where the game was played. Conversely, in 2005, after one time success of Joe T. running, the same play was attempted on an awufl call on thrid down late in the game. That poor call has nothing to do with where the game is played.
by bdawg on May 13, 2009 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
College Football Live
They briefly mentioned Richt’s desire to move the game today on College Football Live on ESPN, so unfortunately it’s looking more and more like Coach was serious. Either that or he was really good at telling the joke.
This would look SO BAD if we tried to get it moved now. I’m not sure we would hear the end of it if it happened. And I hear you bdawg about SSI. Not only would it be a shame for that community, but we would also be trading a nice little island vacation for a trip into the big city. Nothing against the city of Atlanta, but moving the game seems like it would sacrifice a lot of tradition for the programs and fans alike.
by RGI12 on May 14, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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