Why the Future of Georgia Football Depends Upon Keeping the Florida Game in Jacksonville
It's Paul Westerdawg's world and the rest of us just live in it.
If you didn't know that before, you surely knew it after Paul's spirited and absolutely correct defense of keeping the Cocktail Party in Jacksonville. To his superb (both in the ordinary sense in which the word superb means "superb" and in the Corrine Brown sense in which the word superb means "superior") arguments I would add only one further point in support of the proper position:
Not all Georgia fans are in or from metro Atlanta . . . nor do we want them to be. I am a North Georgia native, but my family hails from South Georgia, where the 'Dawgs have many loyal fans and alumni. Although the University's enrollment increasingly comes from the Atlanta area, the state's flagship institution is intended to serve the entire population, from Piedmont to Coastal Plain. We want to keep pulling Stinchcombs out of Lilburn, but we want to keep pulling Baileys out of Waycross, too.
One tangible and meaningful way of cultivating our recruiting base and maintaining our fan base in South Georgia is to give folks from that area one guaranteed game per year in their vicinity. Many complain that Jacksonville is nowhere near Athens (as though the plane trip from the Classic City to the Gateway City took hours longer than the bus ride from Gainesville to the St. John's River), but Jacksonville is very near Savannah and St. Simons and Valdosta. As more and more kickoff times in Sanford Stadium are set at 3:30 or later, it becomes harder and harder for Georgia fans south of the Columbus-Macon-Augusta corridor to make it to home games.
This consideration is far from trivial. Major league baseball's decision to move all World Series games into prime time had no immediate negative consequences . . . but, over time, a generation of American boys grew up without the Fall Classic as a part of their formative boyhood experience, because championship baseball was only played after their bedtimes. The result has been a dramatic decline in interest in the national pastime among the rising generation of young people. Meanwhile, college football and the N.F.L., which are played on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, are thriving.
Don't slight South Georgia just because you don't live there or aren't from there. Those of us who are within two hours' drive of Athens need to appreciate just how much keeping the Cocktail Party in Jacksonville means to fans below the gnat line . . . and just how much the Bulldogs' future success depends upon preserving the school’s presence in that region.
Go 'Dawgs!
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Amen to the above, Kyle....
…and that is on top of the arguments from Tradition andthe simple fact that Altel in Jax seats over 10,000 more than does the dome. I can understand the Atlanta business community’s desire to get in on this from a money angle but any attempt to argue for a great tailgating experience in downtown Atlanta as opposed to the facilities in Jacksonville is going to sound awfully ludicrous from the get-go.
It is well for to make one point here as a Dawg alumnus and fan. The site of this game is not the reason for the turn that it has taken since 1990. From 1990 through 2001, Florida enjoyed equal or better players, plus the coaching advantage of Spurrier in his prime over Goff and Donnan. They also started their bye weekend prior to the WLOCP in that era as part of their coach’s priority to reverse the series and dominate it as we had done to them the previous 20 years. Our otherwise-to-be-revered AD was remiss, not to say downright addled, in thinking that we should reserve our bye week to gird our loins for the Gnats or even Auburn, given what everyone saw that Spurrier was putting together in Gainesville.
In the Richt era, I count two games which Florida won owing solely to its bye week advantage: in 2003 when our guys went in almost as banged as as they were this past season, and in 2005 – it still makes me hoot woth laughter whenever a few errant reptiles whine and mewl about Tebow’s tender shoulder in 2007. Their QB was able to play, at least. In 2005, our QB was out and we had to send it JT3, a fine and loyal Dawg but, it must be said, nowhere near being an SEC-caliber QB. And still we only lost by 4 points. Shockley would have dissected them like a lab specimen.
2002 – injuries had some impact on that game but although I certainly feel we were the better team that year, I actually feel that after a strong start, we were outplayed and to an extent out-coached in that one. In 2006, they were a better team than us, no question. Last year, injuries may HELP explain why we lost but the fact is that in addition to bad coaching calls our first time in the Red Zone and with the onside kick – our QB suffered a massive meltdown, more than equivalent to his fine play the year before. Throwing picks with abandon (they might as well have all been pick sixes, given the runbacks) and that bobbled handoff to Moreno was just a nightmare. This obviously spread to the rest of the team which basically gave up, almost unheard of for any team in the Richt Era.
Anyway, this year we have the bye week again, so let us see what happens, all else (team health) being equal.
Very well stated
My family is from south Georgia, as well, and virtually our entire tailgate group makes the trek from south Georgia to Athens every gameday Saturday in the fall. My parents have a built-in hotel in the Athens area, but most of these folks drive up Saturday morning, attend the game, and try to drive home after the game so they can go to church the next day (night games excepted).
Besides, nothing beats the feeling of being a Bulldog in Jacksonville on Saturday night when your team has just defeated your number-one rival emerged victorious.
I hate Florida.
Losing for the sake of a tradition?
I grew up in Savannah where we could go the the road games in Columbia and the WLOCP in Jax easier than we could go to home games in Athens, and I would still give anything for the Florida series to go home and home. Our program will never get to the level we want it to get to until we deal with Florida, and giving up a home field advantage every other year to play 70 miles from their campus is stupid to everyone except the portion of our fan base that thinks the Florida football program of the 70s and 80s is coming back. Spoiler alert!!!! It’s not.
Someone is going to have to explain to me . . .
. . . how one team can have home field advantage when both teams get an equal allotment of tickets.
If 50 per cent of the fans in the stands are ours, it’s utterly irrelevant how far we are from each school’s campus.
If we get 50 per cent of the tickets and more than 50 per cent of the fans in the stands are rooting for the Gators, or if their 50 per cent is louder than our 50 per cent, the problem isn’t the venue, the problem is us. It won’t matter if we play them at Mark Richt’s family reunion if we Georgia fans can’t match the intensity of our counterparts in Gainesville. Don’t make Jacksonville the scapegoat for our failings as a fan base.
By the way, if the Florida football program of the past isn’t coming back (which seems odd, since every other team in the country seems to enjoy success in a cyclical fashion, and since Ron Zook seemed rather handily to take the Saurians back to their pre-Spurrier status, and since such other perennial powers located in Sunshine State recruiting hotbeds as Florida State and Miami have managed to go back to mediocrity), what makes us think going home and home will make any difference? The last time the Gators played in Athens, the final score was 52-17. That home field advantage sure made a hell of a lot of difference, didn’t it?
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Mar 20, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
A few counterpoints...
The Florida program in the 70’s and 80’s was mired by probation, financial difficulties, decrepit facilities, and a total and complete inability to win on a big stage. If you think THOSE days are coming back, I’ve got some land to sell ya. By any measure you want to use, Jeremy Foley is one of the top 5 AD’s in the country. THAT’S the difference b/t UF and FSU and Miami. From an organizational standpoint, there is no comparison in those Athletic Departments. Even when they make a mistake of Zookian (who somehow still managed to win 2 of 3 and issue the most heartbreaking defeat of my life) proportions, they nip it in the bud before it ruins their program. Contrast that with Dooley, who gave Goof not only enough rope to hang himself but enough slack in that rope to make a hammock. There is a cyclical nature in most programs, but some, like UF, have enough natural advantages that unless they are completely incompetent, those valleys are not going to be as long or deep as most. And even when they are in those valleys, we can’t win but 1 out of 3.
Also, I think we can discount the 1995 game. That was arguably UF’s second best team ever and was Goff’s last year and saw us go from Mike Bobo to Hines Ward to Brian Smith to Hines Ward at QB and use like 7 different RBs. The programs at that point just weren’t on level ground. It would be akin to the 1982 44-0 game being played in Gainesville….it just wouldn’t have mattered.
Inside the stadium it might be 50/50, but in the city, the hotels, the restaurants, etc. I’ve never felt that UGA was equally represented with the exception of 2002. This notion of Jax being a Bulldog city is just silly. I was there a week ago and didn’t see one UGA car sticker. But I saw plenty of Gator shit.
To me, it basically comes down to this: I am willing to lose this tradition if it means the program takes a step forward. I want what is best for the team and the university, and I don’t see how a change of venue could possibly hurt us in this “rivalry” right now. I truly believe there is a segment of our fan base that would rather keep the WLOCP in Jax so they could go down and get drunk for a week than see us win a national championship. Luckily, I don’t think Evans is one of them and I think Jax is as good as done.
My last point is this, and this to me is the crux of my whole argument. If these neutral site games are so great and so neutral, when why don’t more teams do it? Why don’t we play UT in Chattanooga every year, or Auburn in Columbus? Why don’t any other SEC teams volunteer to give up their home game against UF for the privilege of playing in Jax? Why did Auburn break the wonderful tradition of the Iron Bowl at Legion Field and insist on home and home? And why now that Auburn has a winning record since going home and home are they not called chicken-shit anymore? Why doesn’t UT play Alabama in B’ham every year? Or Alabama play LSU in NO? I think it’s because all those programs are acting in the best interest of THEIR program, not of some obligation to tradition. Traditions change. The Red Coats used to play Dixie and men used to wear suits to the games, but I don’t think those traditions are coming back either.
The way I see it, Florida is in our way of getting where we want to be. Something can’t be good for them and be good for us at the same time. The fact that EVERY single Gator fan I know whats the game to stay in Jax speaks volumes to me. There is a reason they never want the game to leave, and I’ll bet my mortgage it has little to do with the camaraderie or tradition. It has become a homecoming game to them, and they know they are in our heads and they don’t every want that to change. A change of venue might change the routine a little and why would they ever want that?
I may have worded that badly . . .
. . . for which I apologize. I get that the home field advantage you’re talking about is ours between the hedges, not their (supposed) home field advantage by the St. John’s River. I regret the confusion likely caused by my having arranged my points in the less logical order.
One other note on Georgia’s home field advantage bears making, though: Mark Richt is 42-9 in Sanford Stadium and 30-4 on opponents’ home fields. That gives him an .824 winning percentage at home and an .882 winning percentage on the road.
If we don’t want to play the Gators in Jacksonville any longer, facing them in Athens or Atlanta isn’t the way to go; we should move the game permanently to Gainesville. If Mark Richt’s home, road, and neutral site records over the last eight years are indicative of anything, the problem isn’t that we’re playing the Saurians too close to The Swamp, it’s that we’re playing them 70 miles too far away from it.
Evidence of a Georgia home field advantage over Florida in Athens is nonexistent after 1932. Maybe the Great Depression is coming back, but the football conditions existing in that era are far less likely to recur than a throwback to the ‘80s. Heck, having been in the stands for last year’s Alabama and Georgia Tech games, I’m not prepared to wager on our home field advantage over any decent team, much less against one that’s won two national championships in the last three years, has won 16 of its last 19 games against the ’Dawgs, and beat both Alabama and the team that beat Georgia Tech in the Chick-fil-A Bowl last year.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Mar 20, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I hadn't thought about that...
… but I agree. Moving all of the Ga./Fla. games to the Swamp would be the single most decisive strike we could make against the Saurians to ensure that we once again return to our position of dominance in the rivalry.
(Aside from scoring more points than them year after year, that is.)
by vineyarddawg on Mar 21, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc
Count me among those who don’t believe playing the game in Jacksonville has an appreciable effect on whether we win or lose the game. (And, apparently, count me among those who use the first person plural when referring to UGA athletics.) I do not believe it was some magical combination of a Florida location and Steve Spurrier as a coach that suddenly made the series swing so strongly in the Gators’ favor. I think it was an unfortunate combination of, inter alia, Steve Spurrier as a coach and Ray Goff as a coach. Yes, Richt has a losing record, but that’s a pretty small sample. In any event, of all possible factors, I think the game’s location is the least significant — negligible at most, even.
And in case it wasn’t clear, count me among those who want to leave the game in Jax.
A small sample?
It’s been 8 years, 1 more than it took us to can Goff. If 7 was a reasonable same for Goff, then why isn’t 8 a reasonable sample for Richt?
Because, Matt,
in 1989 to 1995, Coach Goff won a single game in Jacksonville, wherereas in the equivalent time-frame, 2001 to 2007, Coach Richt doubled that and won Two. And at leaat two other games (2003 and 2005 would have been wins for UGA under anythingt resembling normal circumstances.By any sane standard, that is called Progress. Moreover, Coach Richt and AD Evans have moved to eliminate the Gators’ bye week advantage, which Goff and Donnan either were too stupid to recognize, or were simply afraid to take up with AD Dooley in the 1990s and simply TELL him that it HAD to be changed. I know that I am sounding angrier than I mean to do here. But please, just look at the games, their circumstances, and the results.
The ONLY effort of a Coach Richt team against Florida that I have been ashamed of was this last season. I’ve already said my thoughts about it, I’m not going to hammer our Coaches or any of our players further on it. It’s done. Next year wll be another story. Gartors had better pray for massive injuries to Mississippi State whom they play one week before the WLOCP, while our guys will be getting rested and ready as they did in 2007, as the reptiles did from 1991 to 2006. I’m not buying into all the hysterics on other Dawg boards about how Meyer and Saban have taken over the SEC and everyone else just might as well hang it up. That’s just bullshit. Remember what everyone was saying about Saban and Meyer one year ago from right now? And how Miles and Richt were the geniuses of some so-called “New Era”?? That is what Saban and Meyer are enjoying right now. That is what our Team one year ago couldn’t handle, I’m sad to say. But that is also what Florida and Alabama are trying to handle now.
Our guys just need to take care of business, learn to trust each other on & off the field, do their best in practice; and in then off-season work-outs look out for each other, care for one another, not let anything happen like the end of last June or July. Other teams to the South of where we are can take the cowardly route if they want, try to insure that thwey don’t even venture outside their own State; depend like leeches on their SEC schedule for national credibility. (Hint hint: Even GA Tech is a better OOC opopnent than FSU). If our guys just stay healthy and handle things a day at a time, with the love andf support of the entire Daqwg Nation, Good Things are going to happen for them this fall.
Kyle..
Though it was written with your standard thoroughness and thoughtfulness, this is quite possibly the weakest argument I’ve seen yet to keep the game in Jacksonville.
You don’t see LSU playing one game in year in Lake Charles, or USC playing one game a year in Oakland.
As for your baseball comparison, it is a valid point that later games have been a factor in the declining American interest in the sport, but it is a minor factor. But that’s a discussion for another time.
The difference is . . .
. . . L.S.U. is the only major Division I-A program in its state.
With the exception of a few nationally-recruited players from the Pelican State (many of whom are as likely to go to Michigan as to Alabama), there is not the same “addition by subtraction” element to the Bayou Bengals’ recruiting. If Louisiana State loses out to Texas on a recruit from New Orleans, that’s a guy they’ll likely never see again. If Georgia loses out on recruits from South Georgia and North Florida, there’s a good chance those guys are going to Florida. Think of all the kids out of Atlanta we lost to Tennessee in the 1990s.
We need to be able to recruit South Georgia and North Florida effectively to win consistently. Playing one game a year in Jacksonville helps us do that.
Why do you think Mark Richt objects to Alabama and Clemson playing in the Georgia Dome? He knows such a game allows the Crimson Tide and the Tigers to make inroads in the Atlanta area. Giving up our historic beachhead in Jacksonville would be an unbelievably short-sighted gesture of surrender. However bad things are between Georgia and Florida now, our departure would concede that territory to an enemy with whom we already are struggling. Claiming that leaving Jacksonville would make us better able to beat the Gators makes approximately as much sense as claiming that withdrawing from Guantanamo Bay would make us better able to effectuate change in Cuba. It’s nonsensical to the point of absurdity.
I have a question for you, Hobnail_Boot, which is intended not to be accusatory, but merely to obtain information. I disagree with UgaMatt, but at least I know where he’s from, so I’m able to assess how well informed his opinion is where the South Georgia fan base is concerned. Where did you grow up? Where does your family live?
Once again, I’m not saying that to point fingers; you may well have ties to South Georgia of which I am unaware, and, even if you don’t, you’re entitled to your opinion as a loyal denizen of Bulldog Nation. I’m just a big believer in transparency in the blogosphere—-hence, my use of my real name—-and I believe it is useful in assessing arguments against Jacksonville to know something about the critic’s background.
This may not apply to you, but, in my experience, most of the Georgia fans I know who want to move the game from Jacksonville have no ties to South Georgia, have never been to a game there, and are not old enough to remember how dominant we have been there (Georgia is 40-36-1 against Florida in the Gateway City). In other words, most opponents of Jacksonville arrive at their opposition from a position of relative ignorance. That may not be you, but it’s worthwhile to know how much knowledge a fan possesses when assessing whether to place stock in his position.
Go 'Dawgs!
Ok..
Here’s where I have trouble connecting the ‘keep Alabama/Clemson/etc. out of the Georgia Dome’ meme with how the game in Jacksonville affects Georgia’s recruiting. Perhaps in the not-so-distant past, having a game in the Sunshine State was in fact an in-roads to players who otherwise would not be familiar with UGA football. However, the past decade has seen a sea change in the coverage – both regional and national – of college football. Kids in Frostproof, FL see Georgia play on CBS or ESPN at least a half-dozen times a year. They may grow up Gator/Nole/Cane fans, but the exposure generated by playing in Duval County pales in comparison to having a several 3-hour commercials brought directly to their living rooms.
I follow recruiting fairly closely, and I’ve yet to hear one FL recruit mention the game in Jacksonville as one of the reasons they have interest in Georgia. Beating Florida, yes.. making the connection with the WLOCP, no. When we do grab kids from Florida, it is almost always because of a personal connection that player has made with one of our coaches. We could play UF on the moon, and that wouldn’t change.
As far as a nod of thanks or support to the many UGA fans/alum in South Georgia, why does UGA owe that? Wouldn’t a greater contribution to those folks be having another home game each year, the profits of which would partially given to the academic side of the University? It is through scholarships and education that UGA best serves the people of the Peach State.
Oh, and when you say that LSU is the only major D1 program in its state, I only half tongue-in-cheek assert that UGA can make the same claim.
by Hobnail_Boot on Mar 22, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Also . . .
. . . upon what do you base your claim that later start times for the World Series are a minor factor in the decline in interest in major league baseball?
I ask that only because I think it’s fairly well established, at least anecdotally, that the inability of a generation of American boys to see championship baseball played has been a huge factor in the waning interest in the sport.
At a minimum, it has enough common-sense appeal to lead me to believe it in the absence of some compelling reason to believe otherwise. If you know some substantive reason why that widespread belief is wrong, I’d be obliged to you if you shared it with me.
Go 'Dawgs!
Sure..
I am of the opinion that there are several reasons why baseball is quickly becoming a 2nd-tier sport in the USA. They are as follows, ordered as they come to me:
1) The technology boom since the advent of cable TV and more recently, the internet, has given people almost limitless options for how they choose to spend both their viewing hours and entertainment budget. The days of having 4 TV options is long gone and never coming back.
2) If you accept the theory that our attention spans have gotten shorter, then it is understandable that fewer people choose to passionately follow a sport that spans from March to November and routinely consists of 6 or 7 games a week. This is a huge reason why…
3) The 3 most highly-viewed sports in this country are the NFL, college football, and NASCAR. Let’s face it, most people don’t have time to really follow several teams on anything more than a superficial level. Most people have chosen to engage themselves with a sport that takes place once a week, on the weekend.
4) Baseball hasn’t helped itself at all by pushing games later into the night. I grant you that one, and it’s definitely part of the equation.
5) The modern urban athlete doesn’t play baseball as their primary sport like he used to. Kids who are 6’2", 190 lbs, and athletic as all get-out might play CF on their HS club, but they know that their real shot at stardom is either at Free Safety or Shooting Guard.
6) Many people are turned off by a) the 1994 strike, and b) steroids. Certainly you can relate to this…didn’t I read on your old blog that if not for your son, you probably would not have regained an interest in pro baseball?
Oh and FWIW, I did grow up in Metro ATL.
by Hobnail_Boot on Mar 22, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And how I remember the 1960 World Series.....
….how we all hated us some Yankees too!
GREEEEAT that the Pirates won. One of the happiest childhood memories.
Baileys
The Baileys are actually from Folkston – even closer to J’ville than Waycross is.
It's a gas, gas, gas.

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