Stafford and Tebow
by wqueenjr on Jan 9, 2009 1:13 PM EST
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PrintA thought occurred to me last night as I watched the Chosen One win another game with what might be the most irritating play of all time, the jump pass:
Stafford and Tebow have been compared to one another since they started their college careers, which was natural since they were ranked either the number 1, 2, or 3 QB depending on which recruiting site you checked, and they wound up playing for rival schools.
I don't think that anyone would argue that Tebow has had a more successful college career than Stafford (and if you would, you are a hopeless homer and I salute you).
Stafford has had to watch as Tebow gathered all of the honors that he himself no doubt dreamed of when he enrolled at UGA: a Heisman, a NC (not two, Tebowites; the first one was Leak's), and of course, the constant tongue-bathing of his scrotal area by assorted members of the press. Stafford has always done an admirable job maintaining that he admires Tebow's ability and that Heismans and NC aren't really that important to him, but you have to think Tebow's success and his (relative) lack of it bothers him.
Tebow, on the other hand, despite all of his accolades and accomplishments and media adoration, apparently still can't break into the 1st or 2nd rounds of the draft. There's no question that this bothers him, as evidenced by his confrontation with Todd McShay (or whatever recruiting guru it was) about why he would be drafted so low.
My thought was this: Do you think it bugs Stafford more that he didn't have Tebow's success, or do you think it bugs Tebow more that he (probably) won't be drafted as high as Stafford?
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Right now, it probably bugs Stafford more
Two years from now, it probably will bug Tebow more.
Go 'Dawgs!
I think . . .
Mitch Mustain would trade places with either one in a heart beat. You know, if his mom says it’s ok.
Just a Guess
But Stafford could one day play and win a Super Bowl. He has the talent. Tebow as a pro QB? Not so sure…
The difference is . . .
. . . that, if Tebow comes out and is taken as a project quarterback by the Patriots for situational usage, he could be a niche success in the N.F.L., albeit not a superstar, whereas Stafford easily could be this generation’s Archie Manning: a great player and a statistical success who spends his best years with a woeful team. Granted, that’s unlikely to dog him throughout his career the way it dogged Archie, but Matt could have a while to wait before tasting success in the win column at the next level.
Go 'Dawgs!
Say what you want about the HT the NC or whatever
the real measure of success will be the 75 – 100 million Stafford pulls down and the fact that he will play QB in the NFL – both out of reach for Timbo.
Other than being selected higher
There is no guarantee that Stafford will fare any better in the NFL than Tebow will. It is great to have a rocket arms, a quick release and great footwork. Ryan Leaf had every one of those attributes as well.
Danny Weurffel is far from an NFL success – however his few years in the league has allowed him to accomplish things in life that I would put up against anyone’s alumni. I think we will be saying the same thing about Tebow someday.
I can understand why everyone outside of Florida hates the kid – but I sure am glad he’s a Gator and would love to see him play his senior year. Beware…..there is talk that the Gator juniors may try to emulate the ‘04s from basketball and all return for a run at a repeat. I’m sure it’s just wishful thinking though….see you next year in Jax.
I never said Stafford would fair better.
I think Stafford is a student of the game, but I could totally see him faring poorly, especially if he does get drafted someplace like Detroit where it seems every year they try to beat the previous year’s record for sacks allowed.
I’m also one of the few Dawg fans who will admit that he thinks that Tebow could do well in the NFL. He may not be a technically perfect passer, but he’s still a hell of a passer. I’m sure he has all sorts of other problems that make the scouts nervous, but if a team would take a chance on Michael Vick or Vince Young, why not Tebow?
What would be interesting to see would be Urban Meyer bolting to the NFL in the next couple of years and drafting/trading for Timmy so that he could prove his offense could work in the NFL as well.
Mark Richt...
essentially runs a pro-style offense. The learning curve for Stafford will not be as high. Tebow takes essentially zero snaps under center. I, for one, consider this a critial point to ponder. There is no doubt Timmy is one hell of a competitior. I just don’t see him transitioning to the NFL as smoothly as some do.
As for Meyer “bolting for the NFL…” he should beware of his ego getting in the way. I give you Steve Superior as a prime example. Meyer’s offense will not succeed in the pros much as Spurrier’s did not.
He should stay put or possibly consider another college if he wants a challenge…
Meyer in the NFL
Isn’t going to happen. The NFL is (at least temporarily) done with bringing in top college coaches. The trend now is to take long time obscure NFL assistants, who have fared way better than college guys. Almost every college coach moving to the NFL was an absolute disaster. Meanwhile, Harbough, Mike Smith, Sparano, etc. have proven to be the way the go.
Also, it would be hard to argue that there is a better place to coach right now than UF. It is at least one of the top 5 programs in the country. The alumni are rabid and supportive, the wallet is bottomless, the recruiting base is deep, and the AD is one of the best bosses (if not the best) in the country. I don’t think you’ll see a Spurrier-like move, going to a lesser school to “prove he can win there.” I don’t think he’ll coach at UF for 25 years, but I think 12 years wouldn’t be surprising at all. He’s only been there 4 so far.
Meyer moving
I don’t see Meyer going anywhere unless the NCAA (or UF on its own) changes policies to make it more difficult to recruit and offer athletes with marginal (he says, generously) academic credentials. If there’s a significant increase in what it takes to qualify for Div IA ball, I could see him going to Notre Dame, since there would then be less of an advantage at Florida.
Florida does not accept partial qualifiers
We have very very few academic casualties already, so that point is moot. Plus, Florida might already be more difficult academically to get into than Notre Dame. You know how UGA has gotten impossible to get into now? Florida is a much bigger state population wise than Georgia – and UF is by far the top academic university in the state.
UF's general admission standards are high, but
Not so much for student athletes. Have you seen the latest available SAT averages for the football players? Bottom of the conference. I didn’t mean it to cast stones. But it’s a factor in Urban’s presence in Gainesville and absence in South Bend.
True, but....
They also have 20,000 more students than UGA’s 30,000. Is the state population in Florida 66.66% larger than Georgia? It’s not a rhetorical question….I really don’t know, and don’t feel like looking it up. I’d think not though.
Enrollment definitely affects averages . . .
. . . which is one of the reasons Georgia Tech’s average S.A.T. score has been higher than Georgia’s over the years: our enrollment is three times what theirs is, so, of course, the bottom two-thirds of the enrollment in Athens is dragging down the average.
That wouldn’t affect any Division I-A football program’s averages, though, because every team that isn’t under N.C.A.A. sanctions has the same 85 scholarships. Even teams that lost a scholly or two to probation don’t have a statistically significant reduction relative to other teams.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Jan 14, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
O.K., fair enough
If U.F. has both the highest enrollment and the highest scores, that is strongly to the institution’s credit. However, larger institutions oftentimes falsely appear to have lower standards than smaller ones because of their larger enrollments, even if this is not really the case.
My major point—-that comparing a 30,000-student institution to a 15,000-student institution has nothing to do with comparing an 85-scholarship program to an 85-scholarship program—-still stands.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on Jan 14, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
population and standards
first to answer NCT – no, I have not seen the latest available SAT averages, because the article you are referring to recently in the AJC uses numbers from several years ago, plus the “latest” numbers available from SEC teams in the article weren’t even from the same year. So essentially, they are comparing one team’s 2005 scores to another team’s 2003 scores and ranking them head to head. Ridiculous.
second, I checked the census numbers and 2006 estimates show Florida with just over 18 million people and Georgia with 9.3 million. Florida also appears to be growing at a higher rate, but of course all the old folks retiring there wouldn’t increase the compeitition for college admissions!
I agree, to a point
I think it’s not as instructive as the author’s article would have had us to believe to compare head-to-head scores across different years. But UF’s being the “top academic university in the state” has nothing to do with the academic qualifications of its football players. The same goes for UGA’s, Michigan’s, Cal’s, UVA’s, and Wisconsin’s standings as academically strong institutions versus the test scores of their football players. And for what it’s worth, Notre Dame’s over-all SAT averages are higher than Florida’s. Notre Dame no doubt makes concessions for football players, but that they refuse to make concessions as extensive as those UF is willing to make is one of the reasons Urban isn’t in South Bend. Florida’s not the only one digging deep into the dregs of questionable student-athletes in order to field strong and fast teams. Georgia does it, too, of course, as do almost all Div IA schools. I think we can probably give the service academies a pass, and I’m willing to bet Duke, Vandy, Northwestern, and Stanford are less guilty, too. But we don’t expect any of them to win championships any time soon.
academically questionable
Urban has done a pretty good job of avoiding these type players. I haven’t seen any statistics on it, but we have very few academic casualties. I’m not sure we’ve had any in the last 2 years or so.
Did you find a link to average SAT scores? All the ones I have found use the old system of scoring, so thost must be outdated.
Yes and no
To my knowledge, there are no current published numbers for scholarship athletes. The averages for this or last year’s freshman classes, over all, are readily available on most schools’ own websites, including ND, UF, Vandy, and UGA. For the most part, the schools report the range for the “middle 50% percent” of the class. UGA also reports the over-all average.
I realize I’m making an assumption here with no proof to back it up, but I think it’s a safe assumption that the SAT scores of UF’s and UGA’s scholarship football players do not compare favorably with those of the general student body. Call me crazy.
I still think you and I are talking apples and oranges. I’m talking about the concessions UF (and UGA) are willing to make in their own admission policies in order to field talented players, not the NCAA qualifying risks they’re taking (or not taking). UF may do a great job of avoiding “academic casualties”, but you won’t convince me they’re not making grand concessions in their own admission standards in order to put 4.3 40s on the field. ND is not, perhaps, as “saintly” in this regard as the USMA, but I believe its halo is shinier than UF’s (or UGA’s).
The concessions you speak of may exist
But I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Meyer has just had the tremendous luck to find a pool of players who run 4.3 40s and have 3.5 GPAs. Either that or he’s genetically engineering them (if Myron Rolle disappears on his way to Oxford, look out).
No argument there
I think we all agree that it is easier to get into any school if you are a tremendously gifted athlete.
Does anyone know if the same player has ever won SEC player of the year AND SEC academic player of the year before this season?
Did Peyton do it?
He’s the only one I can think of that might have. It’s going to be difficult b/c both of those awards have a lot of politics involved. For instance, I had a class with Jon Stinchcomb, who was brilliant-as was his brother Matt. The were both All-Americans and played in the NFL. But obviously an offensive lineman isn’t going to the the SEC player of the year. To have a skill player that is also SEC academic player of the year is probably extremely rare. Of course, I wish when they gave out those types of awards, they considered the major. I’m guessing Jon’s microbiology degree was a little more challenging than Youth, Family, and Community Sciences.
Good point
It’s pretty amazing to complete that type of degree while playing college football at a major D-I program. Football takes up so much time. Same thing with Rolle….however he did attend a clown college.
I think so
I remember a commercial about student-athletes in the SEC a few years ago in which Peyton was speaking before a crowd about how easy it would have to be a just a student or just an athlete rather than a student-athlete. I’m pretty sure it was a ceremony honoring his as the academic player of the year.
Terry Hoage ...
… was SEC athlete of the year in 1984 (all sports), but I can’t tell if he won a corresponding academic award for his 3.71 in genetics.
No
Claims on 1942 are completely bogus. We won the Rose Bowl but we came in #2. Claiming 1942 is like Alabama claiming 1941.
We only have 1 NC… 1980. Granted, we should be entitled to the 1946 title, but no.
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