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The Case Against Willie Martinez

On Saturday night, after much discussion and reflection during a roundabout drive home which afforded additional (and appreciated) time during which to ruminate and converse, I advocated firing Willie Martinez as Georgia’s defensive coordinator.

Although I had taken this position before, I did so more heatedly and angrily, and I later backed off from the position. I have now returned to it, but pensively rather than vengefully. Because my co-author, MaconDawg, for whom I have the utmost respect, disagrees with my position, and because we here at Dawg Sports take no small amount of pride in the quality of the discourse that takes place here, I thought my argument required further explication.

I write this in much the same spirit that George Will wrote Restoration, as a convert to a position with which I previously disagreed, who hopes not to fan the flames of passion to encourage hasty action in the heat of the moment, but to state a persuasive case in order to promote thoughtful discussion over a potentially divisive issue in Bulldog Nation, one which ends in a reasoned conclusion arrived at without acrimony. I have invited MaconDawg to craft a case for the other side, but, obviously, all of you are invited to respond, as well.

One point in need of being addressed concerns the validity of my previous argument about the number of games the Bulldogs have lost in the last four years in which the Red and Black scored what historically have been enough points to win. When Viper2369 posted a link to my posting at The DawgChat, Rockmart Dawg offered a sensible retort:

For a VERY LONG time offensive schemes were completely melded with an overall game plan so as to keep opposing offenses on the sideline, run the ball, run the clock, and control the clock. Low-scoring affairs were the norm.

When Eric Zeier was recruited to Georgia it officially signaled the beginning of a brand new era at UGA, that being a pass-heavy offensive game plan... for the FIRST TIME EVER. That was... what.... 1990/1991?!

Have that same person tell us how many times since Goff was at the helm that UGA has scored more than 28 points and I guarantee you the ratio will far exceed that of all of the previous 100 years of Georgia football. The same will be true for the entire nation.

The game has changed significantly in the past 15-20 years.

Undeniably, Rockmart Dawg makes a good point. In Vince Dooley’s first season as the Bulldogs’ head coach in 1964, Georgia went 7-3-1, never scored more than 24 points in a game, and won three games by the final margin of 7-0. Times have changed.

However, football is cyclical. Major league baseball can be delineated sharply between the "dead ball" and "lively ball" eras; the same cannot be said for college football, which is a constant tug of war between offensive innovation and defensive adaptation. Bear Bryant once ruled the Southeastern Conference with the wishbone; Paul Johnson’s triple option is effective, in part, because it is seldom seen and can catch an opponent unprepared, much like Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain’s swinging gate maneuver at Gettysburg.

Georgia football didn’t start scoring points in bunches until Eric Zeier was under center? Tell that to Wally Butts, whose first two S.E.C. championship teams won conference games by such scores as 33-14 (Florida in 1946), 35-7 (Georgia Tech in 1946), 34-0 (Georgia Tech in 1942), 48-13 (Ole Miss in 1942), 41-0 (Auburn in 1946), and 75-0 (Florida in 1942).

Vince Dooley’s teams were purely about rock-ribbed defense, sound special teams, and a ball-control offense that kept the ‘Dawgs on the right side of low-scoring affairs? Tell that to the 1981 Tennessee and Georgia Tech teams and the 1982 Florida squad, which lost to Georgia by margins of 44-0, 44-7, and 44-0, respectively.

I will grant, however, that those scores are somewhat aberrational over the long course of Bulldog football history. These scores, though, are not:

13-7. 27-25. 18-13. 48-17. 52-24. 13-20. 31-17. 24-21. 30-3.

Those are the final scores of Georgia’s nine Southeastern Conference games (including the S.E.C. championship game) from the 2002 season.

In Brian VanGorder’s second season as the Bulldogs’ defensive coordinator, the Red and Black held two conference opponents in the single digits, allowed three more to score in the teens, and gave up more than 21 points just twice.

In 1986, for the first time in his then-23 seasons in Athens, Coach Dooley’s Bulldogs began the season by passing out of the shotgun formation. In order to let his team know he was serious about fielding a balanced attack, Coach Dooley publicly announced before the season started that Georgia’s first play from scrimmage would be from the shotgun.

He was true to his word. Against Duke in the opener, James Jackson took the snap and threw a nine-yard completion to Tim Worley. Georgia again lined up in the shotgun on the following play. It was a handoff to Keith Henderson, who picked up eight yards. The ‘Dawgs would not use the shotgun for the remainder of the game. Afterwards, Coach Dooley told the media, "You didn’t think we were going wild, did you?"

One week later, after David Treadwell’s last-second field goal gave Clemson its second win ever between the hedges and Georgia its second loss ever in which the Bulldogs scored 28 points, defensive coordinator Bill Lewis said, "28 points should be enough for us to win two football games." To reiterate, times have changed.

They haven’t changed that much, though. They haven’t changed so much that Coach VanGorder couldn’t figure out how to make halftime adjustments. During the aforementioned 2002 season, Georgia had to survive a number of second-half comebacks, eking out wins against Clemson (by the same 31-28 score by which the ‘Dawgs lost to the Tigers in 1986), South Carolina (13-7), Alabama (27-25), and Tennessee (18-13).

After the midpoint of the regular season, though, the Red and Black started slamming the door after intermission, surrendering just seven second-half points to Vanderbilt, none to Kentucky, eight to Florida, none to Ole Miss, seven to Auburn, seven to Georgia Tech, three to Arkansas, and six to Florida State.

How does this year’s defense compare to that year’s? After the break, Willie Martinez’s 2008 Bulldogs gave up 21 to the Bayou Bengals, 35 to the Gators, 24 to the Wildcats, seven to the Plainsmen, and 33 to the Yellow Jackets in their last five games. Even allowing for offensive and special teams miscues, that represents a clear regression, over the course of the season and over the course of Coach Martinez’s tenure as defensive coordinator. Maybe we no longer live in a world in which it is reasonable to expect to hold an opponent to three touchdowns or fewer over the course of a game, but surely it is not too much to ask that our defense not give up 21 or more points in the second half in four of their last five regular-season outings.

In saying so, however, I am focusing on Coach Martinez’s worst efforts. MaconDawg’s measured argument against firing the Bulldogs’ defensive coordinator includes the fair point that Coach Martinez deserves to be judged on his entire body of work. Writes MaconDawg:

I am not a proponent of firing Willie Martinez. It's amazing how quickly people have forgotten his "brilliant" gameplans against Hawaii, Florida and Oklahoma State in 2007. However, if we're going to win with his system we have to have all the parts.

Coach Martinez does deserve the credit for the Bulldogs’ defensive efforts in those games; indeed, the performance of the Georgia D during the 2006 stretch run against Auburn, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech had much to do with my having reversed course on the idea of letting him go two years ago.

Coach Martinez’s problem isn’t that he’s bad, it’s that he’s maddeningly inconsistent and becoming less reliable with the passage of time. For every great defensive game plan that has been executed well, there has been another defensive effort which was lacking in game planning, execution, or both. When you compare the performance of his defensive unit with the performance of Mike Bobo’s offensive unit (and particularly Stacy Searels’s offensive line) as the season has progressed, the contrast is obvious and undeniable.

Coach Martinez’s performance as defensive coordinator reflects, and is reflected in, the way his charges have played on the field. Their inconsistency mirrors his own. Rockmart Dawg is right that teams score more now than they did a decade and a half ago, but that only means the standards for defensive success are lower than they were before. With Matthew Stafford, Knowshon Rockwell Moreno, Mohamed Massaquoi, and A.J. Green lining up on the offensive side of the ball, Willie Martinez’s defense doesn’t have to shut opponents down the way Erk Russell’s Junkyard ‘Dawgs did, yet, even with a lower bar to clear, Coach Martinez is failing to live up to a reduced standard. His continued employment in his present capacity suggests that his retention is the result of a "No Coach Left Behind" policy.

If it’s unfair for me to claim that a team that scores 28 points ought to win a football game, fine. How about 30 points? Georgia scored 30 or more points in a losing effort five times in the 111 seasons prior to Willie Martinez’s elevation to defensive coordinator in the Classic City; Georgia has scored 30 or more points in a losing effort five times in the four years since.

If 30 still is too low, fine. How about 33? Brian VanGorder was Georgia’s defensive coordinator for four years during the 20th century and, during those four years, the Red and Black never lost a game in which they scored more than 17 points. Surely it is not unreasonable to say the Bulldog D ought to perform well enough for the ‘Dawgs to win a game in which the Classic City Canines score nearly double the number of points that sufficed week in and week out just five years ago, yet Georgia scored 33 or more points and lost two times between 1892 and 2004 . . . and Georgia scored 33 or more points and lost three times between 2005 and 2008.

However, MaconDawg makes a fair point that winning with Willie Martinez’s system (which is, after all, Brian VanGorder’s system) requires having the proper parts. This is a point similar to the one Mark Richt made when, in a disturbingly Donnanesque moment, he recently said this:

People don’t get it. People think they know but they don’t. I mean, if people really knew football, they’d know that we’ve been blitzing; they’d know that we’ve been playing zero coverage; they’d know we’ve been playing cover one; they’d know that we’ve been playing robber [coverage]; we’ve been go fire-zone with cover three behind it; fire-zones with cover two behind it. So if they really knew football they wouldn’t be saying the things they say. But they don’t.

It’s the same basic defensive scheme that we’ve had since we got here. You know, it’s not like a kind of philosophical issue. I mean, the philosophy of our defense hasn’t really changed hardly at all in eight years. And we’ve not been in this spot in the past. So that’s not the problem.

The emphasis added is mine, because I believe the point is rather telling. While I do not pretend to be an X and O guy, and while I freely admit that I don’t know one-tenth as much football as Coach Richt knows, there may be a problem with playing "the same basic defensive scheme" that "hasn’t really changed hardly at all in eight years."

Eight years ago, Dennis Franchione was the head coach at Alabama; today, Nick Saban is. Eight years ago, Al Borges had not yet been hired as the offensive coordinator at Auburn; now, Tony Franklin has been fired as the offensive coordinator at Auburn, and Tommy Tuberville followed not far behind. Eight years ago, Steve Spurrier was running the Fun ‘n’ Gun at Florida; today, Urban Meyer is operating the spread option in Gainesville. Eight years ago, George O’Leary was stalking the sidelines at The Flats; today, Paul Johnson has brought back the triple option at Georgia Tech. How many times has Tennessee changed offensive coordinators since the hobnailed boot was brought down in the checkerboard end zone?

The world has turned more than a few times since 2001. For whatever reason, Willie Martinez has not kept up, at least not consistently, and the types of offensive attacks against which his defenses historically have struggled are becoming more prevalent and prolific rather than less so. Has Urban Meyer’s tweaking of his offensive system made it more productive during his tenure in Gainesville? I believe it has. Will Paul Johnson’s triple option become even more effective as he recruits players specifically suited to running it? I believe it will. Can Willie Martinez out-plan, out-scheme, out-think, and out-coach the shrewd men who appear on the opposite sideline each and every Saturday? I no longer believe he can.

Willie Martinez is not an idiot. He is neither inflexible nor arrogant nor ignorant. Willie Martinez is a fine man. In many ways, he is a good coach all the time, and, in most ways, he is a good coach much of the time. I take no joy in taking the position I am advocating. Nevertheless, facts are facts and these numbers do not lie. Point out all the Matthew Stafford interceptions you like; take note of every directional kickoff that sailed out of bounds and set up the opposition with good starting field position; stress the fact that offenses historically have not scored as much as they now do; I concede all of that, yet still there is no denying this:

Scoring 30 points at home ought to win you a football game, but, against Auburn in 2005, it didn’t. Scoring 35 points in a bowl game an hour’s drive from your campus ought to win you a football game, but, against West Virginia in the 2006 Sugar Bowl, it didn’t. Scoring 33 points at home ought to win you a football game, but, against Tennessee in 2006, it didn’t. Scoring 30 points in a night game at home ought to win you a football game, but, against Alabama in 2008, it didn’t. Scoring 42 points at home ought to win you a football game, but, against Georgia Tech in 2008, it didn’t.

Many problems bedevil the Bulldogs, not all of which begin or end with the defense. The most serious of these problems, however, concern Coach Martinez’s area of responsibility, and I have not yet heard a satisfactory justification for the proposition that Willie Martinez ought not to be held responsible for the poor performance of the Georgia defense this fall and for the steady decline of the exceptional unit he inherited from Brian VanGorder. Absent the making of a persuasive argument I have not yet heard, I must conclude---not at all happily, but nevertheless sincerely---that the time has come for a new man to be named the defensive coordinator at the University of Georgia.

I like Willie Martinez, but I love my team, and it is to my team that my first loyalty is owed. That same obligation is incumbent upon every person with an office in Butts-Mehre Heritage Hall.

Go ‘Dawgs.

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My bad

Uh, obviously, I meant Brian VanGorder had been Georgia’s defensive coordinator for four years in the 21st century, not the 20th. Please pardon the error.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 4, 2008 7:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well put.

For those that think defenses just can’t keep up with these high-powered offenses…

Alabama has given up 11.5 points per game this season.
Florida has given up 12.3 points per game this season.
Georgia has given up 25.6 points per game this season.

This is Georgia’s ppg progression over the last five years:
2004 – 16.5
2005 – 16.4
2006 – 17.6
2007 – 20.2
2008 – 25.6

If this isn’t a clear indication of the defense’s steady decline, then I don’t know what to tell you. This defense is one touchdown per game worse than the defense of just two years ago. The question is why? Why is this defense so much worse? There are only excuses and no answers. If there were answers, then this could be fixed. If it can’t be fixed, then cut bait, and find someone else.

Personally, I don’t think more “tackle-to-the-ground” will fix it. I think it is a problem of accountability that starts at the top and trickles down to the players. So far, Richt is proving me correct by deflecting the poor performances on the field to the high expectations of fans. Nobody is taking the heat for this failure, and that will lead the program straight into the oncoming train that I’ve said was coming for three years now. It’s still coming.

The dude abides.

by imarealist on Dec 4, 2008 9:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

you know

Saban doesn’t practive “tackle to the ground”…just thought i might add that.

When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.

by bammer on Dec 4, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some thoughts

I know that people tend to point to the runs that our defense went on to end the ‘06 season and certain games from ’07 to justify the success that Coach Martinez has had, but upon closer inspection, those arguments do not hold up with me. First of all, I was not nearly as impressed with the wins over Auburn, Tech, and Virginia Tech that ended the 2006 season as some were. It was a rough season, but those three upset victories had one thing in common-they came against opponents who simply couldn’t throw the ball. That season, we were victimized by teams such as Tennessee, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky who took advantage of throwing underneath against our zone coverage. Our final three opponnents posed no such threat. They were highly run oriented, and our defense was much better set up to stop the run than the pass. Those three teams, despite being ranked higher than the Dawgs at the time they played, did not match up well against us at all. Their offensive capabilities fully avoided our biggest weakness as a defense. As thrilled as I was with thise wins, I took them with a grain of salt. Their personnel matched up favorably with ours. Against a team that played a different style of offense, we would have been in big trouble.

This brings us to last year. To me, it seems like people are confusing last years OSU team with this seasons version. OSU was certainly not the offensive juggernaut last year that we have seen this season. They were 7-6 and lost to Troy. Similarly, Hawaii was thouroughly overmatched and overrated. They proved that they could not hang with a major conference team not coached by Ty Willingham. That victory was more a product of an absurd talent gap, not any schemes that the UGA defense implemented.

As I have said elsewhere, one of my biggest problems with Coach Martinez has been, as Kyle mentioned, that he won’t adjust not just from half to half or game to game, but from season to season. We ran a defense this year that would have been successful with Marcus Howard and Jeff Owens. Sadly, neither of them suited up for the Bulldogs past game one. With those losses, our defense should have adjusted to try and pick up the slack elsewhere. We did not. We continued to scheme as though we would be able to create a pass rush with our front four, even though it was evident as early as the Georgia Southern game that we would not. Now, I know that Coach Martinez does can’t make tackles for Reshad Jones, but he should have been able to cure him of is affinity for trying to tackle players with his shoulder. I can’t imagine that a man could reach the position of defensive coordinator for a division 1 school without being able to teach how to properly tackle, but there has to be a reason for the continually shoddy tackling by most defenders not named Rennie Curran this year. At this point, a change would be for the best.

by SG Standard on Dec 4, 2008 11:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Lesson Learned

After an Alabama loss Saban says, we coaches failed to have this team ready to play and we take full responsibility but I promise you we are going to correct our shortcomings. (Everyone knew what that meant the players caught hell)

After a Georgia loss Martinez says, " we had the players in postion and they just did not execute. We cannot make the tackles for them."

Paul Johnson says. "They are not my buddies, I have my own buddies and they have their own buddies.

Tim Tebow. (love him or hate him) says after a loss, with a tear in his eye " I promise you no one will try harder and no one will work harder to win than me and our players" that is my promise to you.)

FIRE. That is what is in the gut of all Champions. We hand no fire, and what turned out to be a mediocre schedule.
An SEC Championship cannot be won without fire in the gut. The only thing we exemplified was mediocrity. We beat not one team that could be considered above medium. Florida and Alabama absolutely embarrassed us.. took us to the wood shed and kicked our ass exposing us to be one of the most overrated teams in all of college football.
The coaches failed and the fans and players lost. I like Mark Richt but CMR you are paid big bucks to make the tough calls and do what is necessary to see that the team reaches full potential. You failed miserably.

Lesson learned, now what?

Big Ray

by Big Ray on Dec 4, 2008 2:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Promote, don't demote

I agree that Martinez should be fired, for all the well stated reasons you have established here. But we all know it ain’t gonna happen.

For what it’s worth I also “get” CMR’s point about staff continuity being important. SO – why not promote Garner to co-defensive coordinator? CMR said they would be evaluating and making the necessary changes going into the ‘09 season. Martinez is falling behind in some areas. Like you said, the numbers don’t lie.

If he needs the help running practices, Garner takes over there. I, like you, believe the biggest concern is lack of halftime adjustments. Staggeringly ineffective! Garner, at least IMHO – should take over calling from the sideline.

This too, won’t happen. But it would maintain staff continuity and would provide a necessary change our D desperately needs. Do it now CMR. Promote Garner.

Go Dawgs!

by berniedawg on Dec 4, 2008 3:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Big Ray is right

This problem is fire or the lack thereof. UGA’s D is not in the kind of shape necessary to go toe to toe with UF, Bama or CPJ’s Tech. These kids know to wrap up when tackling but when you are gassed the fundamentals slip. What’s needed is a facemask-twisting, ass-chewing, conditioning-obsessed, fire-starter. Talent being roughly equal, the best conditioned team wins (in the fourth quarter).

ecdawg

by ecdude on Dec 4, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Richts Downfall

I hate to say it but if CMR doesn’t look around the league and see what is happening to other coaches when their offense or defense doesn’t perform to expectations then he too will be packing. College football is big money. Ticket holders pay the way through contributions and ticket purchases. When you leave a game feeling embarrassed by the way your team performed you do not look forward to coming back again. When you stay home and the empty seats are noticeable coaches loose jobs. Ask Phillip Fulmer.

The defense had the opportunity to stop Tech and get the ball back for the offense to score and win the game, not once but twice. They failed both times. That is not acceptable. It was bad enough that we allowed them, Tech, to get back in the game. We should have nailed the coffin shut to start the second half and couldn’t do that.

Give Tech credit, they came to play the second half. During half time we some how, some way, lost our interest in winning this game. That reflects directly on CMR. No way we should have lost. If something doesn’t change during bowl practice, spring practice and fall camp then 2009 could be a dismal year, especially if Stafford and Moreno leave. Then where will the points come from.

by knoxdawg on Dec 4, 2008 3:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Injuries?

As a Bama fan I don’t pretend to know a lot about Georgia’s personnel, but haven’t you guys had an abnormally high and hurtful number of injuries on defense this year? I think you guys started the season minus an outstanding DT and suffered even more injuries on the D line. Those kinds of injuries could be making the difference here. Florida lost, what, 4 games last season because of injuries and lack of depth on the D line.

Perhaps what you are saying about Martinez’s lack of ability to make halftime adjustments, etc is correct, but I seem to recall Georgia fans being pleased with Martinez before this season. Maybe instead of scapegoating Martinez, you guys just had bad luck.

Further, I think motivation was a factor this year. You guys lost to Georgia Tech at the end of a disappointing season and really didn’t care about that game as much as the Yellow Jackets did. As for the Bama game, which I attended, you guys clearly didn’t prepare to take us seriously and the Blackout gimmick was undoubtedly a distraction. And offensive turnovers and overly aggressive playcalling allowed the Florida game to get out of hand.

by sabear on Dec 4, 2008 5:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I called for Willie Martinez to be fired in 2006 . . .

. . . and, even though I backed off of it, that should make it clear that we have not been pleased with Willie Martinez on any consistent basis, certainly not to the extent that we were pleased with Brian VanGorder. I don’t know of anyone who’s been 100 per cent pleased with Coach Martinez since at least the 16th minute of the 2006 Sugar Bowl against West Virginia.

Georgia experienced a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. The defense was hurt by it, but so was the offense. The Bulldogs lost not one, but two starting left tackles and constantly had to reshuffle the offensive line. In the early going, this caused some problems, including holding penalties, rapidly-closing holes, and tackles in the backfield. Fans were patient because we knew the injury situation and it was clear that good coaching by Stacy Searels was producing progress. Other than the self-imposed implosion in Jacksonville, the Red and Black O performed well down the stretch. Good coaching ultimately trumps injuries, at least to some degree.

I hold Coach Martinez accountable for the performance of the defense despite the injuries, for two reasons. First of all, injuries cannot account for everything. Experienced players playing out of position and failing to tackle adequately are not problems which may be attributed to injuries. Torn A.C.L.s do not account for a lack of heart.

Secondly, the early loss of Jeff Owens had a huge impact on Georgia’s pass rush. Getting effective pressure on the quarterback with the front four is crucial to the Brian VanGorder/Willie Martinez style of defense. When Owens went down, it rapidly became apparent that the ‘Dawgs could not bring pressure, yet Coach Martinez stuck with the plan. As Mark Richt said, Georgia’s defensive philosophy has not changed in eight years.

Injuries on the defensive line made it impossible for Coach Martinez’s defensive philosophy to succeed, yet he stuck with his usual approach despite its obvious ineffectiveness. If efforts to adjust had been made yet had failed, that would be one thing, but the defensive approach never seemed to vary. The offense adapted to confront the injury situation and improved; the defense never adjusted and got worse.

Injuries are a part of football. If our defensive coordinator cannot be creative when necessary to deal with such difficulties, it’s time to replace him with a coach who can.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 4, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pop Warner level defense

Okay…here’s what is stunning about the loss to Tech. The Nerds (Jackets….bless their geeky hearts) run the triple option. EVERY COACH IN POP WARNER KNOWS THAT YOU DEFEND THAT SCHEME BY CHEATING YOUR SAFTIES UP TO DEFEND THE CORNERS. Instead, Wilie played Tech straight up….fearful of Tech’s “vaunted” (?!?!?) passing threat that went a pathetic 1-6 that game. Like Martinez’s trepidation about blitzing (yes, UGA does blitz…like maybe three times a game), he seems to be cowardly, frighted of the deep bomb. Do you think maybe as a young child Willie was traumatized by a long pass or something? Geez, it was like everybody in the stadium and TV audience knew Tech was going to run….but Willie played a prevent defense. WTF…was he watching LAST YEAR’s film during the week off? In combination with the TREND of teams hanging points on Georgia like a birthright, the shoddy tackling, lack of on field leadership, outrageous volume of penalties, absent pass rush…it seems like Martinez is more concerned with defending against critics than defending against SEC opponents.
     Hey, there’s a lot of AA and DII teams in the NCAA that would be proud to have Martinez as a head coach. Maybe that’s what he should do. For the passive, back-on-your-heels, non-aggressive, bend til you break…just don’t get burned by the deep ball, joke of a defense philosophy…just doesn’t cut it. Erk Russell would have bashed his skull in watching his once proud defense become an embarassing doormat…all because one timid man just doesn’t get the nature of the game. Which is bizarre, because in 2007 he SAW the effect of pressure on a QB against Tebow!
     What frightens me; is that if I’m a stellar recruit coming out of high school on the defensive side of the ball….would I want to play for Willie and look like a numbskull on future Saturdays?!? HELL NAW! If UGA’s offense didn’t overachieve this season…this discussion wouldn’t even be in the realm of a debate…we’d have lost maybe seven games. Sorry, Willie…I always hate the idea of putting a man out of work…but there are other coaching jobs available on a more appropriate level where you can get back to learning the basics. Have you considered Pop Warner?

by Thogwummpy on Dec 4, 2008 5:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey, take it easy on Pop Warner!

He was a heck of a coach for Georgia back in the 1890s!

In all seriousness, though, one of your points was echoed by Chris Brown at Smart Football, where Chris wrote:

Against the old option attacks, the quarterback’s counterpart had to line up on the line of scrimmage and hit the quarterback on the line, and the defense basically had to play without a safety (are you listening, Georgia?).

Our biggest division rival runs the spread option. That isn’t going to change. Our in-state rival runs the triple option. That isn’t going to change. Our oldest rival may be about to hire a spread guru. Mike Leach’s approach isn’t going to change. Willie Martinez hasn’t figured out how to stop (or even appreciably slow) these sorts of offenses. What makes us think that is going to change? Will it take losses to Florida, Auburn, and Georgia Tech in the same season to get us a new defensive coordinator?

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 5, 2008 12:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow........

the frustration is building with each post. Perhaps CMR has figured it out and will make a change after the bowl game or after signing day.

When questioned by the media his response was measured and should have been expected – he was not likely to say – yeah Willie is a good guy but I’m going to fire him.

I suspect CMR will have several meetings – measure the results and make the changes needed. If not – well I don’t even want to go there…….

by JRL on Dec 4, 2008 6:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Accountability

When I look around the SEC, I see 3 coaches who I’m about 98% positive would have fired Martinez after just one of his horrendous performances. Two of them will be coaching in the SEC championship this weekend, the other lives a few hours east of Athens and his name rhymes with courier. Now, I don’t necessarily agree completely with this approach, it tells you a lot about what we’re up against. Everyone knows these guys are serious about winning championships, and failure and mediocrity are NOT options.

The point that Big Ray makes annoys me as much as Martinez’s failure to produce consistent championship caliber defenses. His general attitude, frankly, is one of a loser. When he says “We had players in position…they just didnt make plays”, essentially he’s shucking responsibility his defense’s poor performances. The problem with his answer is, when this happens once, the players made mistakes, we should correct it. When this happens 3-4 times a year, something systemic is wrong. It hasn’t been corrected in the last 3 season, I think it’s a HUGE risk to the program to hope he can correct it next year. I think it will start to hurt us in recruiting. Who wants to play with on a mediocre defense. You know when you go to UF, Bama, Texas you are going to be prepared to play in NFL. UGA…well, maybe). And also keeping players from leaving early FOR THE DRAFT Call me cynical, but I don’t think that Stafford or Moreno failed to notice us losing/almost losing on days where they either stood out or had career days.

I really do think this decision will decide the directory of the program for the next 5 years. We can’t sustain another season like this, and maintain any prestige (and everything that comes with it. Recruiting, money, respect of the pollsters which tends to be lacking already)

by AtlantaDawg on Dec 5, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good points

At the start of this week, you could have said four coaches; Tommy Tuberville undoubtedly would have made a move, too, before he was fired himself earlier this week.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 5, 2008 9:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Willie Martinez was a defensive back for Miami . . .

. . . in the early ’80s (including that 1984 season), but was he on the field for Hail Flutie?

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 5, 2008 7:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What happened at halftime?

At the end of the second quarter, we were up 28-12. Tech had only scored one offensive touchdown. It seemed we did OK defensively in the first half, then, what happened? Did Tech change their blocking schemes? I know some coach must have told them to run wide right, because that is where most of the damage occurred.

The point is that they adjusted, they quit running up the middle so much. Did we adjust? Apparently not. I have never seen UGA look this inept on defense, and it is very frustrating. I see only one very good player on defense and I wonder if that is the problem. Have we recruited too many 4-5 stars that did not pan out? I just do not know, but it is hard for me to watch this team play defense. Besides Garner on the DL, who makes the recruiting decisions for the defensive side of the ball? Could THAT be where CWM is weak?

by Vinings Dog on Dec 5, 2008 10:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think talent is the problem

If anything, we may have the opposite trouble. A few years ago, an N.F.L. team (I forget which; I don’t follow pro football very closely) tried to corner the market on defensive talent, signing several big-name guys in the secondary, at linebacker, and on the defensive line.

From a talent standpoint, it was just ridiculous, and it didn’t pan out worth a darn, because, although talent matters and matters a lot, it’s not just eleven individuals out there, it’s a team, and you’re better off having the eleven guys who play best together than the eleven most talented guys.

Look at the 1980 Georgia team. There have been maybe a dozen Bulldog squads since that season that had more overall talent, but none have played together as well as a team. The importance of that cannot be overestimated, yet the team concept seems sadly lacking this year.

Think back to the 2002 Auburn game. Georgia was down 14-3 at the half. A team leader, Jon Stinchcomb, gave an impassioned speech at halftime, and the team came together. Georgia won, 24-21, to clinch its first S.E.C. championship game berth.

Now think back to the 2008 Florida game. Georgia was down by an identical 14-3 score at the half. What team leader stepped forward at halftime? Apparently, none did, and the Bulldogs lost, 49-10.

Go 'Dawgs!

by T Kyle King on Dec 6, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Flutie to Phelan

I have been watching that video and I just cannot locate Willie Martinez. The video is too compressed. I am fairly certain that his college number was twenty-eight because a few days ago I saw a photo of him whiffing on a tackle against Nebraska I think (not saying that to be mean, it was what was being depicted). Nevertheless, he was there whether on the field or on the sideline; the long pass had to have been traumatizing. He was on the Miami team from 1981-1984 and that game was on November 23, 1984. It might have even been Senior Day at the Orange Bowl. Ouch.

by Comin' Down The Track on Dec 6, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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