What is the difference......
between Texas '09 and Georgia '08? There has to be something I am missing here so I am hoping someone can help me out.
Last year as I understand things, we didn't get to play for the National Championship because we didn't win our conference or our division out right.....
This year Texas won't be BIg XII champs and won't win their division out right or represent their division in the Big XII title game.....
What is the difference? None as I see it.
So how come we have ESPN talking heads discussing how Texas could sneak into the MNC Championship Game?
Discuss....
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There is none
ESPN’s annual dissing of UGA was backed last year by the fact we had Herbstreit saying how we shouldn’t have a chance since we didn’t win our conference when he was also the same one lobbying for an Ohio State/Michigan rematch when Michigan didn’t win their conference.
Someone actually had a youtube video of Herbstreit saying something along the lines of “I know Michigan didn’t win their conference, but in my opinion they are the second best team right now so they deserve to get in the NC game for a rematch”. Then the clip cuts and he’s saying “Georgia didn’t even win their conference. There is no way a team that doesn’t win their conference can be the best team in the nation.” It’s like “What?”.
Not sure if he’ll be lobbying for Texas to get in should Oklahoma lose, but if so I guess they could add on to that clip. ESPN is just ruining CFB, flavor-of-the-week crap.
That said, UGA should NOT have been in the NC last year and I’ll repeat what I said after the Florida loss : Maybe we (UGA fans) should hold off on the “No respect” card for awhile until our team can finish the drill.
And the two high-profile losses (beatdowns) set us back a couple years at least.
by UgaBulldog14 on
Dec 3, 2008 8:13 AM EST
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I wondered the same thing
and while I think that the ultimate result (a team who is not a conference champion having the chance to play for the title) is the same, there are some substantial differences. I’ll do my best to break it down the way that it makes the most sense, which is, to me, how the teams were prevented from playing for their conference championship.
Georgia lost two regular season games, one of which was a thorough trouncing at the hands of Tennessee, the team that ended up representing the SEC East in the conference championship. This was not influenced by the BCS, was not left up to voters to decide, it was quite simple. There were two teams in the East with two losses and Tennessee won the head-to-head matchup.
Texas, however, lost only one regular season game in a close overtime matchup against Texas Tech. Oklahoma, who is representing the South, lost a fairly close game against Texas, but demolished the Red Raiders. Thus, a three way tie, so it came down to the representative being decided by who was higher in the BCS standings…influenced by voters and computers.
That said, I think this brings us to the major difference in the two scenarios. Georgia’s argument to playing in the National Championship was based simply on the fact that Georgia was on a hotstreak and was playing fine football and ranked highly. There was no argument for being shafted by the BCS and not allowed to play for the conference championship. While I do not agree with the way the Worldwide Leader manipulated the voters last year, based on the current system, Georgia really had no argument to play for the title. They had two losses, were beaten soundly by Tennessee, who was beaten in the conference championship by two loss LSU. LSU plays for the title.
On the other hand, Texas has a very legitimate argument for why they should play for the title. They have one loss (as does Oklahoma). They beat Oklahoma head-to-head. They were jumped by Oklahoma at the last minute in the polls, allowing Oklahoma to squeak into the conference championship. Granted, Texas Tech could make this same argument if Texas were representing the south, but the fact that Texas Tech was obliterated by Oklahoma ruins any possible arguments they might have with the voters. Basically, it comes down to the voters taking issue with the current BCS system. Oklahoma jumped Texas because of their rankings in the computer polls, while the human voters, by and large, voted Texas ahead of Oklahoma. For this reason, I could definitely see the voters putting Texas into the NC game for the sole reason of vindicating Texas…righting a wrong.
To end this, I’ll just look at it this way. If Oklahoma ends up somehow dropping the ball and loses to Mizzou, who ends up playing for the title against Florida or Bama, if not Texas? Certainly not the champion of the Big East or ACC. Might we have an SEC title rematch? If Florida wins a close one against Bama, that could very well be feasible, but would the voters vote for it? I doubt it. The other teams with a legitimate shot would be USC, Penn State, and Utah. That said, my prediction (should Oklahoma lose) is a toss-up between SEC vs. USC or SEC vs. Texas. It all depends on who the Worldwide Leader (or Misleader, as Foxsports likes to call them) decides they want to see play.
by hailtogeorgia on
Dec 3, 2008 8:57 AM EST
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Agreed
Last year, Georgia tied for the Eastern Division crown but lost the head-to-head tiebreaker to fellow co-champion Tennessee.
This year, Texas tied for the South Division crown but was passed over for Oklahoma, a team the Longhorns beat head-to-head.
While I believe that, on balance, the right decision was reached (just as it was when a similar three-way tie atop the S.E.C. East in 2003 was settled correctly using the B.C.S. standings), Texas’s argument (“45-35”) is a good deal better than Georgia’s (“35-14”).
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Dec 3, 2008 9:22 AM EST
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I disagree
For starters, I don’t agree that Texas should be considered for the NC game if Oklahoma loses.
I don’t think it’s the same thing last year for UGA as it is this year for Texas. Had Tennessee beat LSU, UT would have gone to the Sugar bowl, not the NC game. If OU wins, they will (deservedly) go to the NC game. If Mizzou beats OU, they will not go to the NC game as LSU did last year. We lost to USC (a game we should have won) and to Tennessee (in horrendous fashion) last year. Texas only lost a close one to TTU.
Again, I don’t think Texas would deserve the shot. I am simply pointing out why I think Texas may be getting more credit in the so-called what-if-this-or-that-happened-who-would-play-in-this-or-that-bowl run around that takes place every year.
Basically, I always try not to make the same arguments for my team that I think are irrational when made by the partisans of other teams. UGA didn’t deserve it last year, and Texas doesn’t deserve it this year. I didn’t make the argument last year for UGA. I made it instead for LSU. If you reversed the roles on OU and Texas right now, both teams’ partisans would be making exactly the opposite argument than the one they’re making right now. Which would be the same argument that they are calling out the other side on. It gets old and annoying to see the hypocrisy of teams fans. I bleed red and black, but I didn’t see a reason we should have been in the NC game last year.
by marktheshark on
Dec 3, 2008 6:25 PM EST
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to add...
I posted this before I read the previous posts. hailtogeorgia has a more detailed (and better) explanation of why the two scenarios are not the same. I hadn’t read it when I posted.
Although I originally disagreed with hailtogeorgia that Texas would deserve the shot to play, I am starting to see both sides since they did beat OU head to head (something UGA did not do last year with Tenn). Although I wouldn’t want the reason to be to right a wrong. I would want it to be beacuse they are more deserving (on a body-of-work, resume ranking basis) than USC, Penn State, or Utah.
I do agree with hailtogeorgia that the issue at hand is the BCS. More specifically, the BCS as it pertains to the Big XII tiebreaker.
Of course, this whole debate is moot if OU wins on Saturday. Texas did deserve the spot in the Big XII Championship game over OU, but if OU wins, they will be the ones playing the SEC Champ, not Texas.
Most importantly, don’t get caught being the fan making the same argument you deemed stupid the year before when it was made by a fan of another team. This also means you have to be careful not to make an argument about your own team when the same circumstances may arise the next year for another team where all the sudden you don’t agree with that argument anymore (or your forced to agree with a flawed argument to save face. And it may be for a team you hate to boot).
by marktheshark on
Dec 3, 2008 6:42 PM EST
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Question
Was the last time a NON Conference winning team played for the NC when either Oklahoma who jumped an undefeated Auburn team or Nebraska who jumped Miami?
I also have another take on this NC issue. i don’t personally feel it is right for a team, even if in a BCS conference, to be eligible for THE National Championship game if their conference (Pac-10 Big 10) doesn’t have a conference championship game. doesn’t seem right that USC for instance can play in a pitiful weak conference….go undefeated….and have a spot in the big game.
by SouthGADawg on
Dec 3, 2008 10:27 PM EST
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Well, the SEC is pretty pitifully weak this year too...
not as bad as the Pac-10, but still. Also, USC is way in the backburner in the NC game race anyway due to the weakness of its conference, which is at least prolonged—the SEC is living off of its performance from past years this year, as though it is indeed experiencing a down year it can be argued to be the second-toughest conference.
by The ArchDawg on
Dec 3, 2008 11:25 PM EST
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It's the Big Ten that deserves to be the odd man out
The A.C.C., Big 12, and S.E.C. all have conference championship games, so there’s no way for the champion of one division to avoid playing the best team in the other division at least once.
The Big East and the Pac-10 have true round-robin schedules. They don’t need conference championship games; they have small enough conferences that they all play each other during the regular season.
For U.S.C. to win the Pac-10, the Trojans have to negotiate a nine-game conference schedule including all of the best teams in the league. For Georgia to win the S.E.C., the Bulldogs have to negotiate a nine-game conference schedule including every team in the division, half the teams in the other division, and the best team in the other division (in the conference championship game).
The Big Ten has neither a round-robin schedule nor a conference championship game, so a team like Ohio State in 2002 can be an undisputed national champion without being an outright conference champion. (The Buckeyes shared the title with Iowa, whom they did not play.) That’s nonsense.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Dec 4, 2008 12:18 AM EST
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Texas has a better case to play for the NC this year than we did last
1) Both teams didn’t win their division outright, but Georgia lost to the team that ended up representing the division; Texas beat the team that did.
2) Last year, there was a bevy of two-loss teams jockeying for position. LSU was (rightly) deemed the most worthy of these teams, due to its a) conference title (which UGA—a team in that conference—did not have), b) crushing victory over another BCS champ (Va. Tech), and c) the nature of its two losses (in triple-overtime).
3) Conversely, UGA lost badly to Tennessee and to a mediocre South Carolina team at home.
4) Texas has, as a team, one of the top-3 resumes in the country. The only two teams I’d rank ahead right now are Alabama and Oklahoma…and both of those teams could lose. Texas, it could be argued, would deserve a shot at the title before USC, Florida, or Penn State.
With all of that being said though, it’d be best if the NC game was left to winners of conferences, but Texas this year has a very good case to circumvent that. They just picked a bad year to go 11-1.
by The ArchDawg on
Dec 3, 2008 11:31 PM EST
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Great Points!
You all make great points, however fundamentally they are still the same situation. Two teams, playing great football, whom the pollsters and computers think enough of to continue to rank high, that won’t play for their conference championship. How both teams arrived at this destination is certainly different, but it doesn’t change the fact that the “unwritten rule” of the BCS is “if you don’t win your conference how can you play for the National Championship”.
For the record I don’t think we deserved to play for the MNC last year either. My point is that if you are going to apply the rules (even the unwritten ones) you have to apply them consistantly no matter how swell a guy Mack Brown is.
by RocketDawg on
Dec 4, 2008 10:31 AM EST
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That is of course...
…unless you played in the Big 12 in 2001 and 2003. It’s never been a written rule and it’s happened twice before.
http://hobnailboot.blogspot.com/
by AuditDawg on
Dec 5, 2008 1:34 AM EST
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Right . . .
. . . which is why it needs to be made a written rule.
It’s simple math. If you can’t plausibly claim to be the best team in your conference, you can’t plausibly claim to be the best team in the country.
If I’m not the tallest person in my household, I can’t possibly be the tallest person in my neighborhood.
Nebraska in 2001 had no argument; it should have been Oregon. Oklahoma in 2003 had no argument; it should have been U.S.C. Michigan in 2006 had no argument; the B.C.S. got it right. Georgia in 2007 had no argument; the B.C.S. got it right. Texas in 2008 has no argument.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Dec 5, 2008 7:38 AM EST
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