I pose a serious question...
As many of you guys know, i have a great track record of trying to be cordial and I try very hard not to be the typical bama fan. I live in Georgia about 30 minutes from Athens, so im inundated with UGA fans on a daily basis. I have also watched every game UGA has played this year on TV. So i have some experience with the current situation that is UGA football.
So my question is..Can RIcht take this team to the next level?
Coming from a bama fan who's team is currently 12-0 might sound cocky or "rubbing it in" but this is a legitimate question coming from a guy who loves college football. Like i said i have watched UGA play A LOT this year and i see problems with this team that goes beyond injuries. Its about preperation and in game adjustments. I see UGA teams that are not "prepared" for the big games and have a hard time making the proper adjustments when its needed most. This means someone is not doing their job. Most of the time its due to youth, but UGA has a lot of veteran leadership.
I don't think he's a bad coach or that he should be fired. For from it but i think you have to look at Richt and wonder why he hasn't been able to take this team to the next level. Is it the players? The staff? Him? What is it? I can't figure it out. I don't think its the players. So looking at from the outside in, you would think by now UGA would have at least played for the NC. Can he do it? I don't know. WIth arguably the best one two punch in Knoshon and Stafford that you guys have had in a long time, Im just wondering when you will get a better chance.
Am i way off base here? I know you guys love Richt but do you believe he's the right guy to take UGA to the promise land?
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Yes, he can
Mark Richt has the same number of national championships Bobby Bowden, Vince Dooley, Tom Osborne, and Joe Paterno had at the same point in their respective careers. If you count his years at Maryland, Kentucky, and Texas A&M, I’m pretty sure the same could be said for Bear Bryant.
I take nothing away from Urban Meyer or Nick Saban, but Mark Richt had the same season in 2002 that those coaches had in 2006 and 2003, respectively. The difference is that two major conference teams went undefeated in the former year and not in the latter two. Had Ohio State dropped one of its many losable games in 2002, the Bulldogs would have been facing Miami in the championship game.
He’ll get there. It may take staff adjustments to do it, but history shows pretty clearly that teams that win ten or more games a year consistently eventually get the breaks that turn 11-2 into 13-0.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 10:24 AM EST
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Hit the nail on the head
Nobody can tell me that the 2006 Florida campaign or the 2003 LSU campaign were all that different than Georgia’s 2002 campaign. It just so happened that Florida and LSU got the breaks by teams losing in those respective years that allowed them to move back in the MNC discussion, and Georgia didn’t in 2002. You’re right on with winning 10 games every year sets you up when those breaks do finally come your way to have a pretty special season.
http://hobnailboot.blogspot.com/
by AuditDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 12:37 PM EST
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I forgot one:
Mack Brown is another example.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 1:01 PM EST
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Thats a lot of good names
But there are also a ton who did a lot earlier, especially when given the shot at such a highly touted school.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Nov 30, 2008 5:52 PM EST
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"A ton"?
Offhand, I can think of three: Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel, and Urban Meyer.
Bob Stoops and Jim Tressel conform to the rule I listed above; namely, that coaches who win ten games consistently eventually catch the breaks that are necessary for a national championship campaign. In their cases, though, they happened to win their national titles in their respective second seasons and neither has won one since, although both have kept their programs in the upper echelons.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 7:21 PM EST
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I would put Saban in that also..
He wasn’t at MSU that long, and won the NC at LSU not long after arriving.
Look, im not dissing on RIcht, even though it may sound that way. I understand he hasn’t been a HC that long and to label him as a guy who can’t get to the big game may be a little quick. Kyle, im sure you have to answer that question all the time, just as bama fans have to deal with Saban leaving for more money, after every season. Ill leave this alone, but i do feel if UGA has not gotten to NC game in the next 5 years, Richt’s ability to get yall there needs to be reevaluated.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Nov 30, 2008 8:33 PM EST
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I get where you're coming from, bammer . . .
. . . and, again, you have a track record of decency that entitles you to the benefit of the doubt. I apologize if it came across like I wasn’t giving you the benefit of that doubt.
The five-year timetable you propose is reasonable. If Georgia hasn’t at least been to a national championship game by the end of the 2013 season, that question very well may be valid. I am fully confident that the point will have been rendered moot by then, but, if it hasn’t, then it may be a legitimate criticism and I don’t fault you for raising the question.
I do think it’s important to emphasize the mindset of mediocrity that gripped the program and the fan base when Mark Richt arrived. In 2001, Jim Tressel inherited an Ohio State program that had been to a Rose Bowl and two Sugar Bowls in the five years just prior to his arrival, posting 11-1 records in two of those campaigns. Urban Meyer took over in 2005 a Florida program that had won an S.E.C. championship as recently as 2000 and won a B.C.S. bowl game as recently as 2001. Even Steve Spurrier stepped into a situation in Gainesville in which he took charge of a team that had been ranked No. 1 five years earlier.
While such coaches as Mack Brown, Nick Saban, and Bob Stoops arguably inherited larger reclamation projects, Mark Richt broke a 20-year conference championship drought in his second season. Is that the same as Bob Stoops and Jim Tressel winning national championships in their second seasons? No, but, seeing as how the ‘Dawgs went 13-1 and finished ranked third in the country that year, it wasn’t too far off.
I mean no disrespect to Nick Saban, who is a fine coach, but I wouldn’t put him in that category. His career as a college head coach included stints at Toledo (1990) and Michigan State (1995-1999) prior to his arrival in Baton Rouge, so his first national championship (2003) came in his tenth season as a college head coach.
During his first nine years as a college head coach, Coach Saban led only one of his teams to a ten-win season (2001). (His final Spartan club went 9-2 under his direction in 1999 and won the Citrus Bowl under his successor, Bobby Williams, after he had departed for L.S.U.)
Coach Saban’s 1990 Toledo squad went 9-2 and technically claimed the M.A.C. co-championship, although the Rockets lost the head-to-head meeting with fellow co-champ Central Michigan.
Coach Saban’s Michigan State squads went 6-5-1 and lost the Independence Bowl in 1995, went 6-6 and lost the Sun Bowl in 1996, went 7-5 and lost the Aloha Bowl in 1997, went 6-6 in 1998, and went 9-2 and received a Citrus Bowl invitation in 1999.
Coach Saban’s first three Louisiana State squads went 8-4 and won the Peach Bowl in 2000, went 10-3 and won both the S.E.C. championship and the Sugar Bowl in 2001, and went 8-5 and lost the Cotton Bowl in 2002.
After nine years as a college head coach, Nick Saban was 69-38-1 overall, had won one outright conference championship and shared another, and had posted the following regular-season records in conference play: 7-1 in 1990, 4-3-1 in 1995, 5-3 in 1996, 4-4 in 1997, 4-4 in 1998, 6-2 in 1999, 5-3 in 2000, 5-3 in 2001, and 5-3 in 2002.
Nick Saban is an outstanding coach. His 2003 L.S.U. team came by its national championship honestly, just as his 2008 Alabama team has come by its undefeated regular season honestly. I take nothing away from him and I actually like the guy a good deal better than most opposing fans likely do. While he took over programs and improved them, though, he was never a coach who strung together ten-win seasons in sequence the way Bear Bryant, Vince Dooley, Phillip Fulmer, Mark Richt, and Steve Spurrier all have done.
Obviously, anyone who asked after Nick Saban’s his first eight years as a college head coach in a B.C.S. conference (1995-2002) whether he was an elite coach who would ever win a national title would have been asking a question that appeared valid at the time but became laughably silly shortly thereafter. Asking such a question about Mark Richt after his first eight years as a college head coach in a B.C.S. conference (2001-2008) also may appear valid now, and it may never appear as absurd as such a question now appears when directed at Coach Saban, but the evidence for Coach Richt today is better than the evidence for Coach Saban was at the same juncture in his career.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 10:46 PM EST
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I respect your post Bammer - and let me build this a little
CMR hasn’t bad mouthed his team, or his coaches or anything – for one reason: He is a real man, he is the top coach, and he knows it his responsibility. Everyone pounds Willie M and CMR defends him – why? because it is CMR’s team and responsibility. I think there are a LOT of factors in play this season – the injuries, the schedule, the special teams, the personal fouls and really bad timing on other penalities, on and on. CMR will look at and address all of them both in their individual aspect, but also as part of the greater whole of his coaching and his team.
If I put one big failure on CMR this year, it would be that he let the players “out” a little more this year – I think he wanted them to have fun and enjoy the season, but those black jersey’s should have never come out. What UGA’s team DIDN’T have this year is exactly what Bama has in abundance this year – teamwork. This year’s group of upperclassman just struck me as more worried about a party than finishing the drill. I think CMR came from a good place to give his upperclassmen some input and allow them to try and have some fun – but I fully expect a meaner, tougher, more focused team next year.
CMR will, better than any of us, evaluate all the weakness and compare them to the coaching, the play making, the injuries, the players both in their own little box as well as the greater impact to the team and the overall unity and coaching. I fully expect adjustments made in the off season – unlike other schools, things will be handled tactfully and quietly, and UGA will be ready to roll for another great year next year.
I just HOPE we are never rated #1 again, ever. I want UGA to be ranked top 5 and just win and win and get to the SEC game and win and move on – our program, for whatever reasons, is not ready to take on the mantle of preason #1 and block that out of their minds and play the games. I am convinced the players were more worried about W-L and black jerseys and so on than actually finishing the drill, and continually looked like a deer in the headlights when the opponent actually fought back. A lot of this does fall on CMR, but I also think he will reflect back in the next month and see it and make adjustments for it.
And – just as T Kyle said, CMR is doing GREAT for this point in his career, it aint over yet, we just got to keep reloading and giving it hell every year.
by tankertoad on
Nov 30, 2008 1:23 PM EST
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Well I hope we are rated #1 again
Just the end of the season instead of the beginning. Although I wouldn’t mind the beginning if we’re indeed worthy of it—I don’t think we should shy away from that at all.
This team obviously wasn’t prepared fort that ranking, but if I’m correct this was the first Georgia team to ever have a pre-season #1 ranking, so we were treading on new ground. The expectations that came with that were just another in a litany of things negatively affected this season, and another in a list of things that you rightly surmise Richt will evaluate at its due time.
by The ArchDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 1:40 PM EST
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I do not think our entire bulldog nation, school, team, coaches, players, etc - et all
Are ready to bare the pressure and carry the load of being number one. We need to start top 5 and top 10 and just win and win and want it. This year it felt like we deserved it, but didnt have to actually work to obtain it. The microscope is just too fine when you start out number one and then have close calls against teams like SC. Better to linger and find yourself undeated in Atlanta in December – and that will garauntee a National shot.
by tankertoad on
Nov 30, 2008 1:54 PM EST
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sorry, slight misread ArchDawg, and misspeak from me
*of course I hope we are rated number 1 !! * Just not presason or early season. I think that needs to happen after an annual beating of Florida that needs to get started again.
by tankertoad on
Nov 30, 2008 2:29 PM EST
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One other point:
I’m not sure what “the next level” means. A national championship is the only thing Mark Richt hasn’t won. He’s guided his teams to No. 2 (2007) and No. 3 (2002) national rankings in the final polls. When you’re at that point, a national title isn’t so much “the next level” as it is “the final step.”
It’s like asking whether Brad Pitt could take his dating to “the next level” after marrying Jennifer Aniston. Well, yeah, I suppose there’s always Angelina Jolie, but, dude . . . Jennifer Aniston!
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 5:26 PM EST
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The next level, final step....
Its the same thing. Where has Richt never been as a HC? The NC game. Where has UGA not been since the early 80’s? The NC game. Indeed Richt has changed the mindset of the dawgnation from being pleased with a 10 win season, to expecting nothing less. Now its time to take the next step, go to the next level, get to the promise land. Use what ever wordage you like but if he doesn’t reach it in the next few years, you’d have to start to wonder. Thats all.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Nov 30, 2008 5:51 PM EST
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well also consider what might constitute "the next step"...
we are seeing this year the stark difference in what a team can do of it’s own accord and what is out of it’s control. getting to the SEC championship, as bama and florida have demonstrated, is a matter of performing well against your rivals. this is a concrete goal that can be set, measured and understood.
but the national championship as currently designed is an obtuse crapshoot that even if you win out might not do you a bit of good. you have to hope on other team losses, the alignment of the stars and the outcome of some pollster arm wrestling the mailman for all we know.
if this is the next level then it’s hard to fault richt for not achieving it. but, if it’s a certain number of wins, performing well against a specific rival and regular appearances in conference championship games. well… hasn’t he done a pretty good job of that already?
by kleph on
Dec 1, 2008 10:10 PM EST
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Thanks, kleph
That was what I was trying to say, but I said it badly.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Dec 1, 2008 10:20 PM EST
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No you said it well
And thats why i dropped the question because really only time will tell. How long will that time be? Thats up to yall but im sure with every loss, this question will pop up until it is answered.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Dec 2, 2008 10:04 AM EST
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credit where credit is due...
…i’m pretty sure this point was expressed recently with infinitely more depth and grace by the esteemed mr. hinton (but i’ll be damned if i can find the link to the article i am thinking of).
by kleph on
Dec 2, 2008 8:41 PM EST
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Seriously?
I have been a long time reader on this site, but never posted a comment or set up an account, but I had to write something about this. Dude, congrats to Bama on beating us, but seriously, the type of HC that wins 10 games a season on a regular basis is the type of coach that will take to you the net level.
What happens when you go out and hire a coach for a ton of money, he wins a championship, and then leaves you for the NFL or a better contract somewhere else in NCAA? What happens is you screw yourself over for another ten years when he decides to leave or doesn’t manage to deliver a championship every year, because you bought a team instead of building a program over time and then having results. The type of “coach” that takes you to the next level is the same type that has no spine and ONLY cares about money. I’d rather have a Mark Richt.
by Drew-G-A on
Nov 30, 2008 6:26 PM EST
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Very nice, I didn’t catch all those subtle hints about Saban……It actually seems that Saban is the perfect fit for Bama but this isn’t about us. NIce try though. Next time come up with a better argument then “your coach has no spine”.
Stop being so sensitive. I didn’t say he was a bad coach. I actually think hes a fine coach but i wonder if he has it? I have been posting on this site all year and i think i have earned the right to ask this question. Time will tell but with all the complaining im hearing from UGA fans, the question makes sense.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Nov 30, 2008 6:50 PM EST
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I appreciate the spirit in which the question was asked, bammer . . .
. . . and you’re right, you’ve built up a track record that earns you the benefit of the doubt. I know you’re not just a rabblerouser coming around to rub it in now that Alabama is having its best season in over a decade and a half.
Yes, Mark Richt will lead Georgia to the promised land. Yes, it’s frustrating that it hasn’t happened already (mostly because I’m getting tired of having to answer this question). Yes, it is likely that some staff changes will have to be made before it comes to pass.
There is no question that, although the S.E.C. is down this year, the league has the best collection of coaches of any conference in the country. Mark Richt is as good a coach as any of them and the fact that he hasn’t yet won a national title (like the fact that Tommy Tuberville also hasn’t) has a great deal to do with things beyond his control (injuries, undefeated teams from other conferences) and is not a reflection of any deficiency in him, although I will grant that there may be shortcomings in his staff which it is his responsibility to correct.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 7:29 PM EST
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Saban Offer
Looks like St. L Rams are making him and offer. I know he will turn it down; when they ask him he will tell them “I’m not leaving this team”…" I already left one team after saying I would not…so forget it Rams, I’m NOT leaving!“. "By the way, will you throw in a G5 and a TV deal”?
Once a LIAR always a LIAR. Good luck guys.
He’s a BUM.
by Dawgleg on
Dec 1, 2008 8:42 AM EST
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Why are you turning this into a Saban thing?
Seems to me you have bigger fish to fry!
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Dec 1, 2008 9:57 AM EST
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I am afraid Saban is at Alabama to stay
He is unlikely to get another NFL offer after his last showing in Miami. As a matter of fact, I think you will see a serious lull in NFL teams even looking at top college coaches for a while. The new formula which is currently working much better, is to hire an NFL assistant. This season is a perfect example with Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore & Washington all experiencing success with first year coaches from within the NFL family.
After so many recent failures of top college coaches in the NFL, I think that trend is mercifully over for us college fans!
by skigator93 on
Dec 1, 2008 1:00 PM EST
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Dear Bammer,
after this upcoming Saturday’s game in Atlanta, you will be questioning whether Saban can take the Tide to the next level. Good luck in the Sugar Bowl, we’ll be pulling for you guys.
by Jujdog on
Dec 1, 2008 5:13 PM EST
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Again why pull Saban into this
Why is that always a fans first reaction. If my name wasnt bammer, you wouldn’t even say such a retarded thing. Can Saban get us to the next level? He’s already proven he can make it to the NC game as a HC. You people are way to sensitive here. Kyle and Macon, you are great guys but your fellow fans need to lighten up a bit.
When you are an Alabama fan you have to hate Auburn, I hate Tennessee because i want to.
by bammer on
Dec 1, 2008 7:33 PM EST
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I always struggle with hitting the right "reply button" on this thing
But the “I agree” response below is directed towards you, obviously
by get swoll yunel on
Dec 1, 2008 10:08 PM EST
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I agree
Your question was entirely legitimate and wasn’t posed in a mean-spirited way at all.
Saban has done a brilliant job this year and has nothing to do with the topic at hand anyway.
Georgia HAS looked completely unprepared to play several different times this season and many of the comments by Richt (such as questioning the football knowledge of the fanbase, the extreme loyalty shown to incompetent coaches —→ going back to Neil Callaway, the “aw shucks at least we got 10 wins” mentality) are causes for concern if we’re going to ever “blow the lid” off the program like Richt claimed when he first arrived here.
I love the guy dearly and absolutely wouldn’t have any other guy out there coaching our football team, but this season has been horribly disappointing and it seems as if our coaching staff is simply content to maintain the status quo.
by get swoll yunel on
Dec 1, 2008 10:07 PM EST
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