Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets 45, Georgia Bulldogs 42
I begin in the only way it is appropriate for me to begin, by congratulating Paul Johnson and the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets on a well played game of football in which they were the better team and received the victory they had earned.
Having said that, let me also say this: I have had a long day. We had out-of-town relatives in the Atlanta area for Thanksgiving, one of whom went with me to the game. Despite the weather and the outcome, we had a nice outing, as I went to Sanford Stadium with the husbands of both of my sisters-in-law---I call them my brothers-in-law, although, technically, that is not correct; they are the men who are married to the women who are my wife’s sisters---but, because different people had to be gotten to different places afterwards, I left my house at 7:30 this morning and returned home around 9:45 tonight.
Consequently, I have not read any FanPosts or comments left at Dawg Sports since roughly 11:00 last evening. If anything needs addressing, it will be addressed tomorrow; if any of what follows repeats points already made, I regret the redundancy, although I believe these points bear making and reiterating, so I will not be saddened to learn that others are entertaining similar thoughts---not visceral reactions; thoughts, arrived at over a period of years and after sober reflection---and I hope a cogent conversation follows.
This posting might have been, but is not, the 82nd installment of the Mark Richt Victory Watch. Certainly, Mohamed Massaquoi, playing in his last game between the hedges, performed at a level fully deserving of victory. Matthew Stafford and Knowshon Rockwell Moreno, also probably playing in Sanford Stadium for the final time, showed grit, heart, and determination that were worthy of a win. The Bulldogs’ much-maligned offensive line generally played capably and the criticisms of Mike Bobo as an offensive coordinator hopefully were silenced by the former Georgia quarterback’s fine play calling. The offense, in short, played well enough to have produced an eighth straight victory over our in-state rival.
Offense, however, is not the only phase of the game. It’s just the only phase of the game at which the Bulldogs performed as well as or better than the Yellow Jackets.
The following facts all are facts:
- In the first century of Georgia football (1892-1991), the Red and Black lost two games in which they scored at least 28 points. During that same period, the Classic City Canines never lost a game in which they scored at least 29 points.
- During the Ray Goff and Jim Donnan eras (1989-2000), the Bulldogs lost seven games in which they scored at least 28 points, falling 34-31 to Tennessee in 1992, 42-28 to Auburn in 1993, 29-28 to Alabama in 1994, 43-30 to Vanderbilt in 1994, 37-31 to Auburn in 1995, 45-34 to Auburn in 1997, and 51-48 to Georgia Tech in 1999.
- During the aforementioned Ray Goff and Jim Donnan eras, Georgia had five defensive coordinators: Richard Bell (1989-1993), Marion Campbell (1994), Joe Kines (1995-1998), Kevin Ramsey (1999), and Gary Gibbs (2000).
- During the four years in which Brian VanGorder served as Georgia’s defensive coordinator (2001-2004), the Bulldogs lost ten games. In those ten games, the ‘Dawgs scored nine, ten, 17, 16, 13, ten, 13, 13, 14, and six points, respectively.
- During the four years in which Willie Martinez has served as Georgia’s defensive coordinator (2005-2008), the Bulldogs have lost twelve games. In those twelve games, the ‘Dawgs scored ten, 30, 35, 33, 22, 14, 20, twelve, 14, 30, ten, and 42 points, respectively.
To reiterate: Georgia scored 28 points in defeat just twice in the first 100 years of Red and Black football; Georgia never scored more than 28 points in defeat in the first 100 years of Red and Black football; Georgia scored 28 or more points in defeat seven times in the twelve years of the Ray Goff and Jim Donnan eras, during which the Bulldogs had five different defensive coordinators; Georgia never scored more than 17 points in defeat during the four years that Brian VanGorder served as Georgia’s defensive coordinator; Georgia has scored more than 28 points in defeat five times during the four years that Willie Martinez has served as Georgia’s defensive coordinator; and Georgia has not scored 28 or more points in defeat more than twice during the tenure of any previous defensive coordinator in Bulldog history.
Injuries have played a role in the failure of this Georgia team to live up to expectations. However, the offensive line has been hit hard by injuries, yet Stacy Searels appears to have found a way to get his players who are healthy enough to play to perform well as a unit and Mike Bobo appears to have found a way to put together an effective offense despite the loss of some key players. This is called coaching.
Injuries do not excuse all shortcomings. Injuries do not explain defensive players being out of position. Injuries do not justify an inability to make open field tackles. Injuries cannot account for why teams are able to outscore Georgia in the second half when Brian VanGorder’s defenses made a habit of slamming the door after intermission. Injuries are not the reason why an option team is able to make big gains despite the fact that everyone in the stadium knows (or ought to know) that the ball is going to the pitch man.
Georgia Tech had possession of the ball seven times in the second half in Athens this afternoon. The Yellow Jackets’ first drive went 60 yards in one play for a touchdown. Their second drive went 56 yards in ten plays for a touchdown. Their third drive went 23 yards in one play for a touchdown. Their fourth drive went 76 yards in seven plays for a field goal. Their fifth drive went six yards in three plays and ended in a punt. Their sixth drive went 70 yards in six plays for a touchdown. Their seventh drive picked up the first down that allowed the visitors to run out the clock.
If two of the Engineers’ seven second-half drives had ended in punts, Georgia would have won the game. Just a pair of three-and-outs would have put the ball back in Matthew Stafford’s hands and the offense would have found a way to finish the drill. The defense did not give the offense that chance. I do not lay this at the feet of the young men wearing silver britches, who played with passion and who managed to avoid some of the foolish penalties that have plagued the ‘Dawgs this season. I lay this failure at the feet of the defensive coaching staff, of the coordinator charged with the responsibility for that side of the ball, and, if sufficient steps are not taken, of the head coach charged with the ultimate responsibility for everything that happens in this program.
Georgia Tech deserved to win the game and a commitment to class even in the face of defeat compels us to tip our caps to the best college football team in the Peach State, which today calls North Avenue and not the Classic City home. However, a decent defensive effort on the Bulldogs’ part would have produced a victory, and that calls upon us as fans to ask reasonable questions in a responsible manner.
As I noted earlier, I have not yet read any of the FanPosts or comments to have appeared at Dawg Sports in roughly the last 24 hours. I will get to them later, but it is my hope that a civil and sensible tone has been maintained. I have not ventured elsewhere in the blogosphere this evening, so I do not know what has been written in other parts of "The Dawgosphere." I regret it if the foregoing is repetitive, although this a subject of sufficient significance to warrant our ongoing attention.
The act of addressing harsh realities requires the act of asking hard questions. Many good men are being compensated handsomely to mold the talented student-athletes enrolled at the University of Georgia into a championship-caliber team and most of these men are succeeding admirably at their jobs.
Georgia gave up 41 points to Alabama, 38 points to Louisiana State, 49 points to Florida, 38 points to Kentucky, and 45 points to Georgia Tech. It is time for one of the good men mentioned above to explain why he deserves to continue collecting a paycheck for serving as the defensive coordinator of the Georgia Bulldogs and it is time for another of those good men to perform his duty as the head coach of the Georgia Bulldogs by taking the only appropriate step if that explanation proves to be inadequate.
Go ‘Dawgs!
Comments
Eloquent and to the point.
I could not agree more Kyle. I believe we have reached a point where starting the 2009 campaign with Willie Martinez as our Defensive Coordinator will be the equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot from the onset. I wish WM all the best, but it’s time to sever ties, move on and start fresh.
by Texan_Dawg on
Nov 30, 2008 12:18 AM EST
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The Good News?
Not that it much matters, but as I go to bed after the Oklahoma/OSU game, it occurs to me that any Dawg fans up late watching ESPN may be able to catch up on the rest of the day’s events without having to sit through much (if any) coverage of today’s game. The Bedlam game was just one big 60 minute highlight reel; the outcome of that game will ensure endless discussion of the role of the BCS in the Big 12 South; Sylvester Croom is out at MSU; Lane Kiffin is in at Tennessee; USC probably just put the last nail in Charlie Weis’ extraordinarily hefty coffin; and oh, by the way, Plaxico Burress SHOT HIMSELF IN THE LEG.
Not metaphorically. Like, with a gun.
So if you night owls want some sports highlights but don’t want to relive this afternoon, it should take ESPN a few hours to get around to this game.
by rebelcraig on
Nov 30, 2008 12:40 AM EST
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Injuries have played a role in the failure of this Georgia team to live up to expectations. However, the offensive line has been hit hard by injuries, yet Stacy Searels appears to have found a way to get his players who are healthy enough to play to perform well as a unit and Mike Bobo appears to have found a way to put together an effective offense despite the loss of some key players. This is called coaching.
Could not have said it any better. So, I’ll let those words speak for themselves.
by The ArchDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 12:54 AM EST
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I'll be quick
Great recap and I completely agree. But to see Kyle point out things like this for our defensive coaches and assistants is saying something.
Larry Munson: "Whaddya got for us Loran?"
Loran Smith: "Well Larry, I'm down here with Charles Grant...and he just loves boiled peanuts!"
Larry Munson: "Good stuff, Loran"
by loran smith on
Nov 30, 2008 1:24 AM EST
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Well-spoken
Excellent post, Kyle. Among my group of friends, I have been one of the very few people who have been arguing for patience and forbearance with Willie Martinez. In the past, I had argued that the results were more important than how many points we gave up to get there, and that Coach Martinez didn’t deserve much of the flak that was consistently fired in his direction.
The numbers just don’t lie, though. Your post does a great job of laying out your point, but look at our victories last year, too, not just the defeats. Our defense gave up 30 points to Florida and 34 points to Troy. And while I’m not in the mood to reflect on the 51-point debacle against Tennessee in 2006, that game stands as a lasting tribute to our DC’s ability to make adjustments at halftime, as well.
Speaking of which, let’s talk about how Coach Martinez seems to have lost the ability to make second-half (and intra-half) adjustments. How can we keep getting our doors blown off on defense game after game without realizing something is wrong? I applaud the players for trying take some of the heat off of their coach by claiming that they just can’t execute, but that’s not a sufficient explanation for the results we’re seeing on the field.
Willie Martinez has been the recipient of much patience and grace from his superiors, and from many fans in the Bulldog Nation, despite a string of subpar performances. After this year’s showing, however, along with the fact that 2 of our 3 losses are directly attributable to the defense, I would be very surprised if the fiery bald man was still standing on the Georgia sidelines next year. (Erk Russell he ain’t… that’s for darn sure.)
by vineyarddawg on
Nov 30, 2008 3:59 AM EST
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Excellent points, vineyarddawg
The point totals in the losses are more glaring, for obvious reasons, but you’re right . . . you can’t ignore how many we’re giving up in victories, too. It’s great that A.J. Green can be relied upon to make a great catch in the back of the end zone to pull out a win, but he shouldn’t have to do that every week just to get the W.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 9:03 AM EST
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two things
you probably don’t want to read my comments on your game on my Rivalry Saturday Review
and
Why did Joe Kines leave UGA? Was it to take the ‘Bama DC job? What was the opinion of the Dawg Nation about Kines? Despite our poor results this season, I like Kines a lot, and think he is doing a good job putting in his scheme at A&M. I think we don’t have anything close to the personnel he needs to run his scheme yet. That will come with time, though. I just wonder what UGA fans have to say about Kines.
by Beergut on
Nov 30, 2008 4:44 AM EST
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Joe Kines was demoted after the 1998 season
He was moved from defensive coordinator to defensive ends coach, although he was given the meaningless title “assistant head coach” to make it look like a lateral move. Coach Kines was replaced by Kevin Ramsey, who was a disaster of a defensive coordinator.
I never had a huge problem with Coach Kines, although his defenses were somewhat inconsistent, holding high-powered Florida to 17 points one week before giving up 45 points to Auburn at home the next week. He’s a good coach, though, and I don’t fault Texas A&M for sticking with him.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 10:12 AM EST
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Another embarassing SEC loss.
Our conference is definitely down this year. We have one, maybe two great teams. Almost all of the rest are uniformly mediocre and lose games to teams which play in much weaker conferences. Then we have a few godawful teams like Auburn, Tennessee and Mississippi State.
To be fair, Georgia Tech looks pretty good, to me. Very disciplined, operating a powerful option attack. Any defense that isn’t fundamentally sound will lose a lot of ground and points to that offense. And I think most Georgia fans are ready to admit that defense hasn’t been the Dawgs’ strong point this year.
We can make up for the conferences woes by bring back the crystal football to the SEC for the third time in three years. Can’t wait for the SEC championship game…
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on
Nov 30, 2008 8:27 AM EST
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This post
cannot be improved upon. I honestly believe that WM has tried to do his very best for this team, but there must be a fundamental disconnect that will never be fixed. He would be wise to step down at this point and allow the process for his replacement to begin sooner rather than later.
by DavetheDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 8:54 AM EST
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Agreed
As I tried to indicate above, I don’t hate Willie Martinez. I believe he is a good man who genuinely cares about his players. I think he did a good job as a secondary coach and I think he tries to do a good job as a defensive coordinator. I don’t wish to bash him as a human being or malign his intelligence or integrity.
I simply have reached a point at which I no longer believe that he will be able to correct what ails us, improve our defense, or even keep our defense from regressing. He has had four years in the position, which is longer than any other Georgia defensive coordinator besides Brian VanGorder has had. We give presidents four years to prove themselves, then we, the people, get to decide whether to re-elect them. (All right, we actually elect the electors who decide, but you know what I mean.) Coach Martinez has had adequate time within which to prove himself and the results do not support his continued retention in his present position.
That’s not meanspirited or knee-jerk; it is a fair assessment of an employee’s performance made by a season ticket holder who annually receives a “shareholders report” from the athletic association. As a shareholder, I believe Coach Martinez should be replaced, as his deficient job performance has diminished the return I am receiving on my investment, financial, emotional, and otherwise.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 9:10 AM EST
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Kyle, I think you're too hard on Coach Martinez
You’re making the same mistake Miami fans made after their shellacking last week. Because Tech employs a running offense, you assume it should be as straightforward to defend as, say, Tennessee or Auburn would be running the ball 49 times in a game. That the only explanation for giving up 407 yards rushing must be poor coaching.
Was it poor coaching that allowed GT’s defense to give up 407 yards passing? Of course not! It was excellent offensive play calliing by Mike Bobo, and outstanding execution by Stafford, Massoquoi and Georgias offensive line. It wasn’t poor defensive coaching that left your receivers open, it was good route running.
Paul Johnson’s triple option is as varied and adaptable with its running attack as Bobo is with his passing attack. Just because it’s on the ground doesn’t make it simple to defend. Just ask Miami. And FSU. and Mississippi State. And give us a little credit.
by elwoodGT on
Nov 30, 2008 9:12 AM EST
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I believe I gave Georgia Tech substantial credit
I congratulated Coach Johnson and the Yellow Jackets on a well played game that they deserved to win.
Coach Johnson’s offense may be varied when it has to be, but that doesn’t mean the defense shouldn’t make it as varied as necessary. Everybody in the stadium knew that, on third down, the ball was going to the pitch man, yet we never seemed to be able to stop him. Defending the option may not be easy, but it is simple: knock down everybody who might have the ball.
Finally, I believe the fact that a Georgia Tech fan is telling us we don’t need to fire Coach Martinez is all the proof we would ever need that firing him is exactly what we need to do. After all, I didn’t want y’all to fire Chan Gailey, either. Your endorsement echoes the same sentiment as that expressed by the Florida fan who leaned out the window of a moving car in Jacksonville in 1993 and yelled at me, “Gators for Goff! Four more years for Ray Goff!”
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 10:17 AM EST
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A further point, elwoodGT:
Paul Johnson’s offense is hard to stop, but it has been stopped, and Willie Martinez had two full weeks to prepare to face the triple option at home with a season’s worth of game film at his disposal.
The result was the Yellow Jackets’ largest point total of the season. Granted, six of those points came on an interception return, but the Ramblin’ Wreck hit a season high in the Classic City after being down 28-12 at halftime. The Golden Tornado adjusted. The Bulldogs didn’t. That’s poor coaching.
45 points. That’s more than Georgia Tech scored against Division I-AA Jacksonville State (41), Mississippi State (38), Florida State (31), or Miami (41). A.C.C. defenses managed to hold the Yellow Jackets to 21 (Clemson), 19 (Boston College), 17 (Virginia and Virginia Tech), and seven (North Carolina). Heck, Division I-AA Gardner-Webb held Georgia Tech to ten points.
It has been done, so it can be done. It just can’t be done by Willie Martinez.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 10:40 AM EST
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STUPID
They ran 5 primary plays and thats including the triple option as three plays. it is obviously stoppable because they lost 3 times! Martinez is terrrible, shows NO emotion unlike Muschamp and the AU dc who are running up and down the sideline, jumping and chest bumping players. he coaches the DB’s who are the ones who allowed the big gains. They bit inside on the dive which opened up to outside. i was sitting in the stadium for every home game and never once felt like a game was in hand because of the second rate DB’s(besides Rashad Jones) that we put on the field. So take your GT fan ass back to their blogs and stay there because your a complete idiot!
by EMAN09 on
Nov 30, 2008 7:49 PM EST
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I appreciate the passion, EMAN09 . . .
. . . but let’s not let our emotions get the better of us.
Although he is a Georgia Tech fan, elwoodGT didn’t come around here gloating and talking trash; he made a fair point in a reasonable manner.
I disagree with his point, just as you do, but, when a rival fan comes around and conducts himself with class, as elwoodGT did, we need to show him the same courtesy.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 7:52 PM EST
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Thanks, Kyle.
If there’s any upside to a loss, it’s that there is plenty sound, well-reasoned dialogue going on in the Bulldog blogs following the game. For that I’m grateful since it beats the hell out of slugging through a loss alone.
Eric Zeier pointed out after the game that the Dawgs finished #2 last year with dominating defense, and he was challenging callers who called for Martinez’s job just one year after that performance. While I’m sure Zeier has to be a company man on that call-in show, I wonder how right he is.
We’ve got NO strong leadership on the defense, and we’ve got plenty of guys who just can’t tackle. It infuriates me because going back to middle school football I was taught “Face in the numbers; lock your arms; drive your feet.” If you’ll go back and watch the replay from yesterday you’ll see there were a number of missed “tackles” (and I call them “tackles in the loosest sense of the word): the final touchdown run in the fourth quarter and the first run from scrimmage in the 3rd quarter come immediately to mind. This is to say that I don’t think Willie Martinez is a bad coach and that he doesn’t know anything about defense. It’s to say that someone is not "finishing the drill” on the defensive side, be it coaches in teaching or the players in executing.
Apart from all of this, let’s not forget how pathetic the special teams performed. Multiple kick-offs out of bounds, and poor Richard Samuel hasn’t impressed me at all this year. Every time he touches the football, I cringe.
As far as the future of Willie Martinez, let’s hope he gets hired away. That might be our best bet.
by Father Dawg on
Nov 30, 2008 9:12 AM EST
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How about Sly?
If memory serves me correctly, Sly Croom was a defensive coordinator before becomming head coach at MS. State, the graveyard of head coaches. During his college career he played defensive end for Bear Bryant. As Martinez has proven himself unfit for the defensive coordinator position, if Richt, either on his own (I am not hopeful), or at the behest of the powers that be, fired Martinez, does anyone think Sly Croom might be a good choice coach to replace him?
by Dr. X on
Nov 30, 2008 9:16 AM EST
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How good of a DC was he?
Miss State’s defenses were never that impressive while he was their head man. Maybe that was a product of the talent on-hand, and presumably he must have been a good DC to get a head job… But when a defensive coach is head coach, you shouldn’t be finishing in the bottom ten defensively every year.
by Ramblin Jeff on
Nov 30, 2008 5:58 PM EST
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Sly Stallone, maybe...
Croom played center for Bear Bryant. And Croom is not a good fit a Georgia. Why? Because I believe he’s just about tired of all things “Bulldog.”
Have a good day.
by DavetheDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 9:35 AM EST
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VanGorder
What an edge going into a game — if you score 18, you’ll win. Dorothy: Find the ruby red slippers.
by SilverBs on
Nov 30, 2008 12:16 PM EST
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Speaking of VanGorder
Why can’t we go out and pay this man what it takes to get him back?
DC of the Falcons ain’t that great of a job. Pay the man!
I know. I’m dreaming.
by Muckbeast on
Nov 30, 2008 1:03 PM EST
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Chavis
While it is generally seen as blasphemous to suggest we hire anyone who once donned the color orange as it relates to SEC football, a pretty darn good coordinator who lives in Knoxville is soon to be looking for a job.
With Monte Kiffen soon to join his son on Rocky Top, John Chavis is soon to be available. And while Tennessee has been abysmal on offense this year, their defense has remained stellar with the majority of points surrendered being the direct result of being put in a short field situation by their inept offense.
Of course, natural talent has a lot to do with it but when I see Jerod Mayo make 21 tackles last Sunday for the Pats at the next level and I see Eric Berry making those Thomas Davis-type hits week end and week out, I see a fundamentally sound defense whose players are constantly put in a position to succeed.
….And speaking of Rocky Top, get ready for it to be a three-way SEC race again in two years or so. While Lane doesnt have the experience necessary to win right away, Monte sure does- and with Ed Orgeron joining them back in his comfort zone- in the living room recruiting and far away from X’s and O’s- I am very concerned that the sleeping giant in the mountains is soon to reawaken.
by DawginMS on
Nov 30, 2008 1:52 PM EST
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My only concern about Chavis is his age . . .
. . . but there’s no doubt he’s a good coordinator. I wouldn’t mind going after South Carolina’s defensive coordinator, either.
Our reactions to the Lane Kiffin hire were exactly opposite. When I heard that they’d gone with Kiffin—-whose appeal as a head coaching candidate I have never understood; the same is true of Steve Mariucci—-I breathed a great big sigh of relief. When the best argument for a head coach is that he’ll bring in his dad to help him, you don’t have a head coach who’s ready to wear big boy shoes.
Lane Kiffin is Mike Shula with an uglier color scheme. Rocky Top’s tumble from the mountain ain’t ending for a while. Unless South Carolina makes a move, the S.E.C. East is officially a two-horse race for the next half-decade.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 2:07 PM EST
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Time for Richt to step up and make the call
I have not been a WM fan since day one and I agree with your comments. To say the least, teh defense has been sloppy, undisciplined and the talent has dropped since WM arrival. VanGorder’s defenses carried us in many ways throughout his tenure, while WM has been the weak link in the chain since his arrival. I know that Richt is a man of loyalty, but he must grow a pair and make the call for change.
by CrustyoldQB15 on
Nov 30, 2008 1:56 PM EST
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this is always the problem with firing coaches -
it’s damn hard to find a new and better one. Sometimes it takes trial and error. Sometimes (all the time) it takes a mountain of luck. Van Gorder returning would be great – in some ways…..but where is his heart? And how long would he stay? And what is his contract with the Falcons? He left for his own reasons – he would have to return for his own reasons, and not for the money, but because it is where is heart is.
We have some time. We have 2-4 months of time. And the trigger on firing Willie, IF it happens (i am not assured it will) will not be until after the bowl game, if we keep some decency. We also need Willie even if we get a new DC because there is a lot of work to be done in the off season. We can’t have a pissed off CWM that makes a delicate situation even worse.
I do expect some coaching adjustments and reassignments however. Especially in the special teams arena. Maybe even a new hire in certain areas.
by tankertoad on
Nov 30, 2008 2:15 PM EST
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Just watched a bunch of highlights
and i want the jersery of number 9 (i know his name, i am never mentioning it again in my life) burned. i dont want to see him on the field again.
The tackling and the lines of attack were just absolutely pathetic on defense. And the special teams just added to it.
sorry for venting – getting upset. Seeing the replays made it even more clear how pathetic the defense was.
by tankertoad on
Nov 30, 2008 3:21 PM EST
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Consider this
We gave up more points in the third quarter alone than we had in any of the seven straight victories. (17 was the most Tech had managed.)
We also gave up more points in one game than we had given up not just in any TWO consecutive games in the streak, but in fact in any THREE consecutive games. (17, 7, 17, 13, 7, 12, 17.)
Yeah, they have a new coach and a new offense. They still ain’t that good.
by RJohn on
Nov 30, 2008 3:31 PM EST
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Kyle,
This isn’t a rip, but an honest question…
Who on this defense who played yesterday is any sort of legit NFL prospect?
by FSUncensored on
Nov 30, 2008 3:59 PM EST
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Rennie Curran
Though probably not at linebacker
"Who knew that Florida would one day hire a coach that made us long for the graciousness and dignity of the Steve Spurrier era?"
Thus sayeth T. Kyle King
by RedCrake on
Nov 30, 2008 6:42 PM EST
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Rennie Curran
he is a true sophomore linebacker playing like a dominant senior. in a year where ellerbe was supposed to dominate, Rennie took the roll over and did great. i view him as the future of this defense and can’t wait for the bowl game to watch him again. he replace the wimp darnell ellerbe and made us forget what he did last year because it compares nothing to rennie’s performance this year!
by EMAN09 on
Nov 30, 2008 7:45 PM EST
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You speak of him as the future.
Do you agree that this defense didn’t have the horses to dominate in ’08, post injury?
Also guys, NOBODY stopped a healthy Nesbitt led offense, all year. None. Only when he was injured were they stopped.
Sucks to have to depend on favorable fumble luck to beat a team.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 30, 2008 8:14 PM EST
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To reiterate:
No team on Georgia Tech’s schedule gave up as many points to the Yellow Jackets as did the ’Dawgs. Nesbitt or no Nesbitt, literally every team the Golden Tornado faced fared better against Georgia Tech than the Bulldogs managed to do.
If Georgia had forced two punts in the Ramblin’ Wreck’s seven second-half possessions, the Red and Black likely would have won the game.
When your offense is racking up 42 points, you don’t need your defense to dominate. You just need them occasionally to tackle the man with the ball when everyone in the stadium knows right where it’s going.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 8:33 PM EST
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Polite but damning
Estate law or not, I hope I don’t ever end up with Kyle making the case against me. I don’t suppose you’d fancy taking a crack at our offensive coordinator?
by DC Trojan on
Nov 30, 2008 5:42 PM EST
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Couldn't agree more, Kyle
I feel like one of the few Dawg fans (although there are no doubt more; I just haven’t met them) who has defended Martinez this season. I never called for his head after Bama (everybody gets one pass), or Florida (that’s a great offense, and we put the D in some bad spots) but after our performances at Kentucky and coming off a bye against Tech, there is just no reason to continue this failed experiment. If the talent isn’t on the field, as some posters are implying, isn’t that also a reflection of the coaching at some level? And considering WM is a former secondary coach, how can our secondary be so enemic, and so pitiful at tackling? Ultimately, I’ll support CMR in whatever he decides (I think he’s earned that much from Bulldog nation), but I sure hope that he doesn’t let his loyalty hurt the team in what could be a promising 2009 campaign.
by ForsythCoDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 7:05 PM EST
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Re: Croom as DC
Sylvester, believe it or not, was running backs coach for the Green Bay Packers before coming to Mississippi State. That didn’t help State from gaining a whopping -51 on Ole Miss last Friday.
State’s stellar defenses in 2007 and 2006 seem to be products of Ellis Johnson, former DC for the Western Division Bulldogs and current South Carolina head defender.
by Ivory Tower on
Nov 30, 2008 7:07 PM EST
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And a word on Van Gorder
Can we all just agree that Brian Van Gorder isn’t coming back. Sure, we’d love him to come back, and Bama would love to have Bear back (before this year, at least) and Notre Dame would love to have Knute Rockne back, but it’s something in our (and his) past. So let’s all just agree to look more intelligent and stop asking about Van Gorder.
by ForsythCoDawg on
Nov 30, 2008 7:10 PM EST
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Not so fast
The SC dc is from South Carolina, he not going to move again. Anyone on here who is suggesting the lack of talent is CWM’s fault is incorrect. Recruiting is assigned to the entire staff by area/ region not by offense or defense.
Another overlooked issue is turnovers. In our 3 defeats we are minus 2, minus 4 & minus 1. Exactly how does one credit Coach Martinez defensive coaching abilities to an interception returned for a touchdown and a fumble inside the 25 year line? In Jacksonville we gave Florida a short field 4 times (2 of which I believe were inside the 10 yard line) which they all converted to points. Simply using point totals to draw a conclusion is not a thorough evaluation. Do you think Paul Johnson is considering firing his DC for giving up 45 points? For the season we are minus 2 in turnover margins. Take away one turnover from yesterday and the outcome changes and the tone of this discussion changes.
What happens before the snap falls on the coach, what happens after the ball is snapped is left to the players. Yesterday’s defensive game plan and field adjustments appeared to be solid since we were able to stop them 2-3 times in the second half. Unfortunately the offense was not able to utilize the defensive stops and turn them into points. How were you able to rate these unproductive offensive snaps less significant than the defensive ones? Yesterday, tech made 2 long TD runs down the sideline. Both times the corner either was blocked to the inside or took an incorrect pursuit angle, leaving the sideline free. I can say with much confidence that the 1st day of high school football practice, a cornerback is preached to NEVER give up your outside position & to force the play back to the middle. On one of the long TD runs (in the fourth quarter), our safety decided to try and bump the RB out of bounds instead of tackling (a technique this particular player has used all year). If you want to say that this is a reflection of Willie Martinez’s lack coaching, for not teaching tackling, I leave it to all of our coaches to identify who the best 11 are based on the Monday through Thursday practice performance. Sometimes the best position player has a deficiency in their game. Coaches have to game plan around such deficiencies as best they can. 21 of tech’s points can be attributed to bad post snap decisions. 7 of tech’s points were directly from a turnover and another turnover gave them a short field.
From year to year team chemistry and leadership are vital to success. To support this Corvey Irvin had a post game comment that indicates the players lost focus in the second half. All the sideline instructions provided can not materialize if the players are not focus on the job at hand. Corvey’s comments reflect that there was not a personality in the defensive huddle that could get the attention and focus of the other players. During bowl preparation, off season conditioning, spring & fall practice lets hope that a vocal leader emerges that can impose a take charge attitude and a nasty disposition to our defense. This would cure all the ills that can be found in a 9 to 10 win season.
A football game cannot be broken down into 1 play here or there. Every snap of the ball has an impact on the next and ultimately on the outcome. 18-21 year old young men will make good & bad decisions during a football game. Sometimes their talent and/or teammates can overcome mistakes. Sometimes it does not. This is the nature of College Football, no blame needs to be assigned.
by DawgSmith on
Nov 30, 2008 7:35 PM EST
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Sometimes, blame has to be assigned because fault exists
I agree with you about the Florida game, in which offensive and special teams miscues put the defense in horrible positions. Aside from Stafford’s pick six and Samuel’s fumble yesterday, though, the defense was responsible for all of it.
Why do I say that? Because the field position didn’t matter. When Georgia Tech starts on the 40 and goes 60 yards for a touchdown on one play, the defense has failed to do its job and it does not matter in the slightest whether Blair Walsh kicked it out of bounds. Had Walsh booted it out the back of the end zone, a 60-yard touchdown run would have been an 80-yard touchdown run instead.
It simply is inaccurate to state that the Georgia defense stopped Georgia Tech two or three times in the second half yesterday. After the Bulldogs gave up 12 points in the first half, they gave up 26 in the third quarter; it is abundantly clear who out-adjusted whom. The Yellow Jackets’ seven second-half possessions produced one three-and-out and one punt. We cannot be said to have “stopped” them at the end of the game because all they needed to do was pick up one first down and run out the clock. They weren’t particularly concerned with advancing the ball beyond that point, since they were able to kneel it out. Otherwise, the Ramblin’ Wreck scored every single time.
Why don’t I blame the offense? Because the offense scored 42 points, which ought to be more than enough to win you a football game. Because Mohamed Massaquoi had the game of his life. Because Mike Bobo called a whale of a game. Because Matthew Stafford performed well, albeit imperfectly, and Knowshon Rockwell Moreno was as reliable as ever. Because an offensive line as decimated by injuries as any defensive unit came together and worked well as a unit due to capable coaching. The offensive linemen appeared focused; coaches are paid, in part, to cause their players to be focused.
I do not call for the firing of an assistant coach lightly, but this wasn’t just one game. This was the latest instance of a recurring pattern. Fourth and forever against Auburn in 2005. The first 16 minutes of the 2006 Sugar Bowl. The meltdown following the 24-7 (I believe) lead on Tennessee in 2006. I’ll give Coach Martinez a pass for what happened in Jacksonville this fall, but where does the fault lie for the inability to stop a brand-new quarterback at Kentucky? He’s had his chances. It’s time for him to go.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 7:49 PM EST
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ForsythCoDawg and Ivory Tower, I agree completely
Brian VanGorder isn’t coming back. I’m not convinced it would be a good idea to bring him back at this juncture, nor am I convinced that he’d stay long if he returned (which matters because staff continuity is important), but we need to move forward rather than look back.
Right now, Ellis Johnson would be one of the top names on my list. Even while Steve Spurrier’s offenses have been inconsistent, Coach Johnson’s defenses have performed well.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Nov 30, 2008 7:36 PM EST
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BEAUTIFUL
GREAT ARTICLE AND BEAUTIFULLY DONE!!
by EMAN09 on
Nov 30, 2008 7:41 PM EST
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Croom
Does anybody here really think DM won’t be back next year???
I’m not a fan of the “bend don’t break” but who else could/would we be able to get? I’m a bit ignorant about who does what with recruiting bit how are DM’s recruiting skills?
I’ve heard some buzz around Croom…would that make any sense to hire a guy who might be through coaching just because he played for the Bear?
by dahlonegadawg on
Dec 1, 2008 8:35 AM EST
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Don't Forget Special Teams
Agree with everything Kyle has said but we would all be remiss if we did not seriously discuss Special Teams. Since the last minute loss to LSU some years ago in Baton Rouge when we went ahead and then kicked to them giving them the ball on the 45 or so, have we once kicked the ball into the end zone? We were doing that when I was in school (with our toes tied up/kicking straight on)! There has got to be someone on the squad that can kick the ball that far. Others feel the same way?
by longtimedog on
Dec 1, 2008 11:08 AM EST
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View from the skybox . . .
as I rode up the elevator Saturday, the only person in it other than my wife was Mike Cavan. I remember when he puked his guts out in the huddle in the Sugar Bowl. My how time flies. For those of you who don’t know, I don’t have a skybox, but get invited to one game a year and this year I selected the Tech game. Yes, many of the individuals on the field allegedly playing defense for the Dawgs executed poorly Saturday, and I presume that the DC must take the blame for that; however, those same guys executed fairly well in the first half. They WERE prepared. Unfortunately, they fell into the “we got it won” trap at halftime and couldn’t recover. The offensive Dawgs also fell into that trap__see their POOR performance in the 3rd quarter also__but they were able to recover due to superior talent. I have to believe that the defensive coaches teach fundamentals of tackling__not “chest bumping” or “blocking” to try to bring down a runner__certainly they teach that one’s “arms” should be utilized.
I have never been sold on Martinez, but I think Saturday was a prime example of our guys just thinking at halftime: “It’s the same old Tech, we’re ahead by 16, and we can put it on autopilot.” For some reason, it has been my observation over the years that UGA doesn’t play well ahead. When UGA took the opening kickoff Saturday, marched easily downfield and scored a touchdown, I turned to someone in the skybox and stated: “We’re going to lose this game__that was too easy.” I’d like to see some statistics on the number of times that UGA has received the opening kickoff, scored a touchdown easily on that drive, and wound up losing the game. I’d say >50% of the time we come out on the short end of the stick.
by Jujdog on
Dec 1, 2008 11:25 AM EST
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I've yet to see .......
….. Willie defend himself or his defense – only CMR doing it. The point totals are unreal given our athletes (most of ‘em anyway). I’m thinnking Damon/Adams will call for some changes to be made.
It's a gas, gas, gas.
by Keith Richards on
Dec 1, 2008 2:57 PM EST
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of course...
if Stafford hadn’t thrown that pick-6 and Samuel hadn’t fumbled that return….
is the D to blame for those 12+ points awarded to Tech?
i’m not a huge fan of Martinez, and anytime you score 42 THE W SHOULD BE GUARANTEED, but lets get off the Offense’s nuts here, and equally assign blame.
also, Stafford’s 3 INT’s vs. UF are unforgivable.
by dawgaddict on
Dec 1, 2008 5:13 PM EST
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I think there's a distinction
I argued that we shouldn’t blame the defense for the fact that the Florida game got out of hand, because offensive and special teams miscues set the Gators up with great field position and kept points off the board for Georgia. That wasn’t the case against Georgia Tech, at least not to an extent that should have mattered.
Yeah, Blair Walsh should have kicked the ball out the back of the end zone rather than out of bounds, but, since the Yellow Jackets needed all of one play to score, isn’t the special teams miscue the difference between a 60-yard touchdown run and an 80-yard touchdown run?
Likewise, the Samuel fumble resulted in a one-play 23-yard touchdown run. Sudden-change play or not, there’s no excuse for the defense laying down like that.
The entire team was out of synch in the third quarter, in which Georgia Tech scored 26 points and Georgia scored none. The offense got it back in gear in the fourth quarter, though. Aside from one second-half three-and-out, the defense never did.
When you lose 49-10, there’s blame enough to go around. When you win 52-38, your defense can be forgiven for giving up 38 points if the defense also ran back two interceptions for touchdowns to provide the winning margin. When your offense scores 42 points at home, though, you ought to win a football game. This one’s on the D, and it isn’t the first time it’s happened in the Willie Martinez era. In fact, it’s happened more—-a lot more—-in the Willie Martinez era than it has under any previous Georgia defensive coordinator.
Go 'Dawgs!
by T Kyle King on
Dec 1, 2008 7:49 PM EST
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Why you should have already bouhgt your ticket to the Cap1 Bowl in August
We knew Stafford, Moreno, MoMass would keep on scoring like we did in NOLA, and heard the stories about Green (all true!) and King (uhhh…maybe true?) would make us contender. But did you REALLY believe pre-season #1? No O-line, injuries, and a weakened D-front would take the field against THE toughest schedule in the nation. Two losses to the real #1 & #2 teams in the country (no apologies to overrated Big 12) and only 1 loss vs. SC, AZ-ST, LSU, AU, TN, upset minded KY & Vandy and, of course, Tech. That’s 9 – 3 and the SEC sportwriters knew it…so did we, but did not want to believe. Next year was the year to look forward to, at least on paper, until we now must also accept we’ve likely wasted our shot with Staff and KnowMo.
I believe CMR will learn and adapt…he has shown the ability to do this so far. This year was tough with great weapons, next year will be tougher now that our best weapons will be gone. Defense must be fixed, and since WM ain’t leaving, we’ll see how well the off-season goes as our first big test is at OSU in Boone’s palace.
P.S. Is there really any need to go to Cap1 to beat another 3rd-rate Big10 team?
by AusUGA on
Dec 1, 2008 9:12 PM EST
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Somewhere in East Lansing.....
Javon Ringer just opened up an early Christmas present- it was a game tape of UGA and GT.
by DawginMS on
Dec 1, 2008 10:59 PM EST
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AusUGA
let’s not be hasty,
i think UF went into the Cap Bowl last year expressing similar sentiments vs. UM and we all know how that ended.
i agree whole-heartedly Kyle.
just tired of all the talk of Stafford being the greatest QB evar! (prospect maybe)
to me, he looks JUST LIKE Rex Grossman.
at least one (and usually 3-4) monumental lapses in judgement per game, and now we have basically spent 2 years watching him develop while he leaves us in the “lurch” with what COULD POSSIBLY be the MOST talented GA squad ever.
those UF basketball boys came back to win a 2nd Natty Champ trophy, and we can’t even get our guys to stick around to avenge an embarrassing loss or 3?
frustrating.
i hope he throws 3 picks in his first game for the Chiefs.
so angry at the Willie Martinez hire.
cannot believe how depressingly true my initial gut-feelings about him have been, and how painfully apt my assessment of the effect Van Gorder’s departure would have on our D was.
the reality is, our Offense has been stout most of the year (w/ a few 3 notable exceptions), unparalleled by any backfield captained by Greene, Carter, or Shockley.
but still, the offensive firepower has been betrayed by the consistent defensive misfires.
i wonder though….
my wife works for the Grand Hyatt Buckhead, and she booked a weekend getaway room for a team official and his wife two weeks ago during the bye week.
this is my theory, based on the conversation they had.
Stafford is no leader. the official says he’s always been introverted and Joe Cox is a born leader and a lot of the staff is excited to see him take over (this is not a PR, but a real conversation between a fan and an insider.)
would that explain the absence of offensive production in the UF game?
coldest game in JAX i can remember, but our O was colder still. great marches, but couldn’t finish the drill once?! against Ala and UF, where is the leadership that results in early points instead of turnovers? lets not fool ourselves, like Zeier said Ala reigned it in during the second half. should we be looking at Cox as a fine replacement? and hope that C. King and R. Samuel learn some tricks in the off-season?
for me, this season is (like yours, Kyle) one of the most disappointing in memory.
2000 was bad, but we didn’t lose the #1 ranking in week one, never to regain it.
and that hurts.
i had been consoling myself with refrains of “our regular-season was better than LSU’s in 2007, but they got more help!”
unfortunately, this is no longer true.
Go Dawgs, 2009!
lol
there’s a new sheriff in town….Paul Johnson.
….until November….nerds
by dawgaddict on
Dec 2, 2008 12:02 AM EST
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release of dawg dc
it is very disturbing to me that a person can continue to use methods or schemes in preforming his job that didn’t even work in the games that we have won (we being dawg fans and players). If I had one thing to say to Willie it would be plan and simple zone prevent dosen’t work not even in high school . All it does is prevent you from winning the game. You would think when he sees the otheir team scoring points over and over again it wound make him think oh maybe its time to change to maybe man to man or if you see the qb can’t throw accurate under pressuse then guess what bring pressure and just more than the d-line its common scense. I would like to know why we keep letting him cost us games. Can someone please let me know why he can’t see what is very clear to the rest of us
by haws on
Dec 7, 2008 11:00 PM EST
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