Answering Questions About Georgia, Asking Questions About the Pac-10 Feud

by T Kyle King on Jul 30, 2007 9:55 PM EDT in Football

All right, first things first . . . our good friends over at Roll 'Bama Roll posed a few questions to Hey Jenny Slater's Doug Gillett and me.

Although we authored our respective answers without knowledge of each other's responses, Doug and I achieved a scary degree of synchronicity. Also, while Todd claims that I approve of cheating, I prefer to think that I deserve a commendation for original thinking.

TODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!

Secondly, while we're hitting the S.E.C. West weblogs here at SportsBlogs Nation, I also need to direct your attention to And the Valley Shook, where our resident L.S.U. fan offered a fair and balanced appraisal of my examination of Les Miles's remarks at S.E.C. Media Days, in which he reasonably replied:

Any T Kyle read is not fully appreciated unless one navigates a couple of his links, as they're sure to add editorial content (though come on now, Kyle, where's the link to the Tennessee-Cal game from last year? Or the LSU-Arizona games over the past four? Or Auburn-Wazzu? Ok, maybe they're there, on in past posts; I haven't had time to click on 'em all.)

That is a perfectly valid criticism. My links to the results of Southern California's games against Auburn in 2003 and against Arkansas in 2005 and 2006 were intended to demonstrate the success against the S.E.C. enjoyed by the Trojans, the putative national title game opponent whom Coach Miles unwisely maligned, but the larger point is legitimate.

Recent results in matchups between the S.E.C. and the Pac-10 are difficult to gauge due to the lack of comparable quality between opponents in most instances, but I have defended the Southeastern Conference against assaults from overzealous Pac-10 fans when warranted. On the whole, though, I give the Pac-10 its due and I think Midwestern expatriates recently relocated to the South should, too.

Lewis Grizzard said it best: we don't care how y'all did it back in Cleveland.

Incidentally, I'm curious . . . why is it that the conference wars typically seem to involve the Pac-10 and the S.E.C.? Senator Blutarsky noted the most recent volley just today, pointing once again to the West Coast equivalent of Les Miles, and folks with feet in both camps can appreciate the subtle differences, but there isn't any inherent reason why the West Coast and the Gulf Coast ought to be at daggers drawn.

It seems to me that the Pac-10 ought to have a much bigger quarrel with the Big 12 than with the S.E.C. and, in any event, there is plenty of disdain between other B.C.S. leagues. For instance, check out the Big East critiques being offered over at Black Shoe Diaries.

The Pac-10 and the S.E.C. share neither geographic proximity nor common bowl tie-ins. For all the attention paid to the split national title of 2003 and Auburn's omission from the mix in 2004, we in the South aren't any more singleminded about national championship arguments than other college football fans, and, besides . . . such debates are part of what makes the sport great.

So what gives, folks? Why does this feud get all the hype? To quote a Los Angelino with my surname, "Can't we all just get along?"

Go 'Dawgs!

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ESPN Respnosible for Conference Wars

It seems to me that the WWL is largely responsible for the animosity that festers between PAC 10 and SEC fans. While I recall few west coast coaches, fans or bloggers in recent years publicly laying claim to the title of best football conference, Mark May and his cohorts have regularly made such assertions regarding the PAC 10. And, as is ESPN's custom, little or no meaningful analysis is offered in support of this claim.

Many SEC fans justifiably take issue with any claim that theirs is a second rate conference. Unjustifiably, however, I believe those same fans impugn the PAC 10 based upon the off-the-cuff comments of pseudojournalists who promote their own network's games under the pretense of delivering unbiased commentary and analysis.

My proposed solution is for all of us to boycott all ESPN programming other than actual live game broadcasts. After all, they do carry Georgia games several times each season.

by Marshal J Duncan on Jul 30, 2007 11:06 PM EDT reply actions

Ha ha...Oh Kyle...

...I do love some good natured and wholly nerdy back and forth.

by Todd @ Dawg Sports on Jul 31, 2007 12:05 AM EDT reply actions

These are only my biased opinions

As Pac 10 fan that lives in the land of the Big 12 I am also quite confused by the "hate" between the Pac-10 and SEC. I may live in Texas, but that does not mean that I do not respect Oklahoma or Nebraska. But in some ways I still have difficulty seeing how Nebraska could be picked over Oregon to face Miami in the 2001 Rose Bowl and Oklahoma over USC to face LSU in the 2003 Sugar Bowl. If anything both Oklahoma and Nebraska playing for the national championship in both of those years demonstrated the worthlessness of a conference championship game. But that is for another discussion.

I think the reason for the polarization of fan bases between the Pac-10 and SEC is that essentially the Big 12 is flyover country. The Big East and ACC are so foreign to most Pac 10 fans that anything east of Penn State does not exist.

The Pac 10 feels no animosity toward the Big 10 since that conference produced the traditional Rose Bowl opponent. Because of that I feel Pac 10 fans paid more attention to the Big 10 teams and thus became more familiar with that conference. In fact fans of both the Pac 10 and Big 10 have the saying "Pac 10, Big 10" whenever a team from either conference plays an "out of conference opponent." Thus when Ohio State played Florida or Texas Pac 10 fans were supposed to support Ohio State. Big 10 fans were supposed to support Michigan when they played Texas in the Rose Bowl. In fact it was probably worse since Texas jumped Cal in the polls and robbed Pac 10 and Big 10 fans of the traditional Rose Bowl match up.

That only leaves the SEC, or better said "The South." For many people in the far West their perception of the South is still shaped by images from the Civil Rights Era and thus view that region of the country as backward and populated by nothing but racist, uneducated, and gun totting rednecks. This was also not helped by LSU fans posting material that stated that USC was not co-national champions since they did not play in the BCS national championship game.

I feel that the distinct cultural differences between both regions allow Pac 10 fans to view the SEC as racist, uneducated, gun totting, Bible thumping rednecks and SEC fans to view Pac 10 fans as granola eating, Green Peace loving, pro choice baby killers, US hating flag burning pacifist cowards.

We shall see what cultural experience Tennessee fans have when they visit Berkeley this September and they come to the realization that northern California is not the California that is portrayed in the mass media. As a native northern Californian I have a strong dislike for southern California.

by monolake on Jul 31, 2007 12:16 AM EDT reply actions

Re: These are only my biased opinions

I agree that part of it is cultural differences. Part of it is just that SEC fans are probably the most devoted fans, even to the point of being crazy, and they take offense anytime fans of another conference even hints at theirs being better than the SEC. This is especially magnified when it is Pac-10 fans, since that conference is perceived as not tough and lacking defense. A lot of times the arguments quickly devolve into SEC fans being called dumb rednecks and Pac-10 fans being called sissies, or some variation thereof. The LSU/USC split title in 2003 is really the powder keg that set the current bout of bad blood off.

In the end, the problem always comes down to the fact that no one really backs up their arguments with statistics that aren't leading. Pac-10 fans will argue USC's non-conference record; SEC fans fire back about numbers of teams ranked in the top-10 and top-25. It just goes on and on with one "yeah, but what about..." ad nauseum.

For what it's worth, I'm attempting to go through a fairly detailed and hopefully bias-free comparison of the conferences on my site this week, and the results at the end might surprise you. I'd love to hear comments.

And monolake, I don't think it's a case of Tennessee fans being ready for Berkeley, it's a case of Berkeley being ready for Tennessee fans. I'll just say that they're fortunate it's too far for most Vol fans to drive, and leave it at that.

http://year2.wordpress.com

by Year2 on Jul 31, 2007 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions

It was my fault

for not being more clear in regards to the final section of my biased posting. I will not attempt to elaborate on it further since it seems that that the third culture of communication as proposed by Casamir and Lande is substantially different between both of us.

Sorry for failing.

by monolake on Jul 31, 2007 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Pac-10 supremecy?

It seems that UGA has been carrying the flag for SEC OOC scheduling over the last few years giving Boise State it's first shot, scheduling Colorado when they were in the midst of a run of Big 12 North Championships, looking at Florida State for the future, and always dealing with their pesky ACC in-state rival Yellowjackets. The home-and-home with Arizona State (my beloved alma mater) in the upcoming years should be fun too.

As a Pac-10 fan and native of the Southeast, I tend to agree with Miles to a point. The SEC is more topheavy with UGA, UF, LSU, UT, and Auburn, but it's also more bottomheavy as well with Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, and Kentucky. It appears to me that the Pac has the titan in USC and the dwarf in Stanford, but the rest is almost a toss-up from year to year. While the gauntlet of the top SEC teams is a more difficult stretch than any 5 Pac-10 teams, I think that there are fewer pushovers out west and any team can beat any other on any given Saturday.

The Pac-10 leads the SEC 6-5 in H2H matchups in the last 5 years. Four of the Pac's wins were at the hands of USC, but two of the SEC wins were against the two of the worst Arizona teams in conference history. LSU posted two more wins against decent/good competition but escaped deficits to both with special teams miracles against ASU and Oregon State. That leaves WSU-Auburn and Tennessee-Cal, both of which were sound SEC victories that lead me to believe that the SEC is better from top to bottom in recent years.

Thanks for the love anyway, Mr. Mayor, and keep up the great work.

by Big Jon on Jul 31, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions

D'oh!

How did I forget about Okie State?

by Big Jon on Jul 31, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Pac-10 vs. SEC

Really, I think the debate comes for three reasons...

SEC fans are more rabid than fans of teams in the other conferences because college sports are king in the South while pro sports generally dominate the other parts of the country. Thus, Big 10 fans are less concerned about the debate because they're also passionately following teams in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Minnesota.
Most level-headed fans from the Big 10 and Big 12 generally concede that the SEC is the strongest of the bunch. There are certain years when their conference may feel it is superior (like the Big 12 in 2003, for example) but they know the SEC is stronger on a year to year basis.
Prior to the rebuilding of the Big East, the only major conference consistently ridiculed on a national level is the Pac-10.

Combine it all and you've got the conference war.

That being said, I think the whole Pac-10 vs. SEC thing can be applied just the same to Pac-10 vs. Big 10 and Pac-10 vs. Big 12. Aside from USC, these teams don't do well in nonconference games (with last year perhaps providing the most obvious example of this, and it just so happens most of the games were against the SEC). The Pac-10 has the worst overall bowl record since 1996. USC balances everything out.

If you took all games involving the top program from each conference over the past five years (undoubtedly USC in the Pac-10, most likely Florida State in the ACC, probably Ohio State in the Big 10, either Texas or Oklahoma in the Big 12 and any one of several candidates in the SEC) and eliminated them from the equation, thus removing the skewed Pac-10 totals because of the USC juggernaut and doing the same with the best in the other leagues, I would be interested to see how the Pac-10 stacks up with the other BCS conferences. It might be better than the Big East. I'd be shocked if it's better than any of the others.

Cola
http://www.classiccolaforthesoul.com

by Cola @ Dawg Sports on Aug 1, 2007 11:34 PM EDT reply actions